Tron Legacy Sequels

[DarthSkywalker]

My point is that he doesn't understand story. How to tell one. Scorsese doesn't write his own scripts, but is a master storyteller. A great script won't help someone who doesn't understand it. What to emphasis, how to keep a coherent thread through, for each character and the story as a whole. It what makes guys like Edgar Wright and Joe Wright killers. They get it.

 

[Lord]

I disagree, he presented the stories in Oblivion and Tron Legacy efficiently, not mastefuly of course, but well enough.

 

[Jaspertian1105]

I disagree, he presented the stories in Oblivion and Tron Legacy efficiently, not mastefuly of course, but well enough.

Agree, but he needs a solid hit. Hes next movie has to be solid all around, if not then for me he will fall in the category of flash and a little substance

 

[Lencho01]

He has good visuals, I don't think anyone could deny that. I thought his action has improved when comparing Legacy and Oblivion, especially his aerial battles.

 

[Lord]

Yeah, his aerial action in Tron left a lot to be desired, though his disc battles were pretty good.

It seems like he's tied to more films than he can handle though, i mean, he is attached to Logan's Run, Black Hole, something called Archangels, Twilight Zone and Gran Turismo, yet we haven't heard much about those projects since they were first announced.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I disagree, he presented the stories in Oblivion and Tron Legacy efficiently, not mastefuly of course, but well enough.

What does well enough mean? See this is what is confusing. You complain about his scripts, but then say he told the story well enough. Presenting very generic and basic ideas doesn't require much. Ratner can do that. Adding depth is what makes a director worth his salt.

 

[slumcat]

Wait, you say how it had amazing visuals and soundtrack but then also state it had no redeeming qualities? Didn't you just mention 2 of them?

I would be this angry if the film was insulting on the level of Michael Bay or Zack Snyder's films, but it wasn't, it had a standard plot that didn't realy offer anything fresh, but didn't give many reasons to feel ofended either, was just a safe story that had some cool ideas but didn't develop them much.

0 is a very harsh criticism, expecialy when you just mentioned in least 2 redeeming qualities lol.

The first hightlighted part is the reason I went to see the film. I should have snuck in the word trailer there somewhere. The trailers looked and sounded cool. In a 2 minute promo. Those are the reasons I went to see the film.

In the movie proper, I wasn't very appreciative. The movie looked awful I think, some critic said, it looked like those neon tubes in a football stadium. I found it looked horrible for 2 hours of that material.

0 is a unusual rating. I myself give it seldom, only to films I find unbearably bad. The only other recent film I remember giving that to is Les Miserables.

And its not that I am angry or anything, its just that I thought this was incompetent on another level. Like such sloppy film-making, such a horrendous script, I got the idea that he basically made the 3 minute promo that got everyone excited and then sold the movie to Disney. He basically had a look, and no story for the movie. I am not going to watch a visual for 2 hours and be satisfied, it takes mere seconds to glance at an empty pretty picture like the one he composed, but interest in the story was nil.

I think he has no story telling abilities. I wouldn't dare watch Oblivion as I have no interest in this director.

 

[Lord]

What does well enough me? See this is what is confusing. You complain about his scripts, but then say he told the story well enough. Presenting very generic and basic ideas doesn't require much. Ratner can do that. Adding depth is what makes a director worth his salt.

You said he didn't understand story, but what do you mean with that when the stories presented in Tron Legacy and Oblivion were decently presented? A script can be weak but a film end up decent, that's what his films are: Weak scripts with a good presentation and decent storytelling.

Realy, what do yu exactly mean with him not being a good storyteller, i mean, i think that applies to stuff like Transcendence, where the Director realy didn't know how to tell his story properly and made it seem like we were watching the whole film from a small window. Kasinski gives a good perspective on scale and these worlds he presents and delivers the plot in a comprehensive way, most of the problems found in it usualy come from the scripts. His style can be kinda slow, but i think it works for him, all he realy needs is to be given a better screenplay.

 

[Supernova]

Tron legacy was a shiney new car disney marketed and sold but under the hood was a mess. Still a beautiful car though and fun to ride around.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You said he didn't understand story, but what do you mean with that when the stories presented in Tron Legacy and Oblivion were decently presented? A script can be weak but a film end up decent, that's what his films are: Weak scripts with a good presentation and decent storytelling.

Realy, what do yu exactly mean with him not being a good storyteller, i mean, i think that applies to stuff like Transcendence, where the Director realy didn't know how to tell his story properly and made it seem like we were watching the whole film from a small window. Kasinski gives a good perspective on scale and these worlds he presents and delivers the plot in a comprehensive way, most of the problems found in it usualy come from the scripts. His style can be kinda slow, but i think it works for him, all he realy needs is to be given a better screenplay.

Understanding story and how to present it, does not lead to weak characters, thin plot and bad pacing. All of which both of his films have had. There is no real excuse of a bad script for a director, because the director crafts the film in the end. If it is not working, you fix it in front of the camera or in the editing room.

That he did not understand the problems with the Tron and Oblivion scripts shows the problems he has as a storyteller. He presented very superficial films, with shallow stories and shallow characters. Oblivion makes things way worse, because it is his story.

 

[Lord]

Weak characters are made by the script and actors, thin plot is made by the script itself, the pacing of the story was bad due to the script, but the editing itself was pretty good imao, he realy knows how to put a scene together. Ridley Scott has given Exodus and the Counselor, two absolutely terrible films, does that make him a bad storyteller? Because the storytelling in those films was absolutely awful.

The storytelling of Tron Legacy and Oblivion was flawed but decent.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Weak characters are made by the script and actors, thin plot is made by the script itself, the pacing of the story was bad due to the script, but the editing itself was pretty good imao, he realy knows how to put a scene together. Ridley Scott has given Exodus and the Counselor, two absolutely terrible films, does that make him a bad storyteller? Because the storytelling in those films was absolutely awful.

The storytelling of Tron Legacy and Oblivion was flawed but decent.

So two "decent" efforts is enough to give him another chance? How many great directors start out with two, well decent efforts?

You continue to pass the buck here, but he didn't exactly work with low quality actors. In fact, with both films he has fantastic cast. You can continue to blame the script, but he is the one directing the film, and both times he did not elevate the work. By any chance, did you read either script? I haven't. Perhaps they were good, and he failed them? After all, who should understand the story and character of Oblivion better then the guy who came up with the story itself?

As to Ridley Scott. I will always value Blade Runner and Alien, and I love his director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven, even with a weak lead. But him making awful movies now isn't new. He has been making mediocre to bad films for a long while now.

 

[dark_b]

i agree with DarthSkywalker.

Kosinski after 2 movies is a very bad storyteller IMO

 

[slumcat]

Though this is not my discussion, I will just step in and say that storytelling merit is subjective. It simply boils down to perspective. One person might see it in a movie, another person might not.

Lord, I know everyone in this thread is ****ting on Tron and the director (including me), but it is great that you can find some value in them.

Nobody here would be infantile enough or juvenile enough to judge you for that or think that you are a bad person or a person not worth listening to. Hopefully, nobody will be petty enough to think of you as "Lord is the guy that was looking forward to the Joseph Kosinski Tron sequel..." That would convey monumental immaturity as people not tuned to the fact that personal preference can be varied and there is no objective quality, only subjective.

And having a wide spectrum of differing opinions is a perfectly admissible thing as that is what lends color to discussions.

Here ends my completely unsolicited two cents in a discussion about quality and perspective.

 

[Supernova]

i agree with DarthSkywalker.

Kosinski after 2 movies is a very bad storyteller IMO

Oblivion is one of the better critically praised scifi films in recent years, sure the 3rd act is alittle weak but overall it is a solid film. Legacy is pretty much you love it or hate it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oblivion is one of the better critically praised scifi films in recent years, sure the 3rd act is alittle weak but overall it is a solid film. Legacy is pretty much you love it or hate it.

Most here seem to simply like Legacy, despite its flaws.

Don't know what you mean about "Oblivion". It divided the critics.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/oblivion_2013/

Compare that to Tom Cruise's other film, "Edge of Tomorrow".
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/live_die_repeat_edge_of_tomorrow/

Or Ex "Machina".

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ex_machina/

Or "The World's End".
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_worlds_end/

 

[Supernova]

Most here seem to simple like Legacy, despite its flaws.

Don't know what you mean about "Oblivion". It divided the critics.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/oblivion_2013/

Compare that to Tom Cruise's other film, "Edge of Tomorrow".
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/live_die_repeat_edge_of_tomorrow/

Or Ex "Machina".

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ex_machina/

Or "The World's End".
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_worlds_end/

In the age of scifi coming back strong if oblivion is considered terrible then thats ok with me. I own both oblivion and legacy on bluray, the stories were good but more driven by the effects and respectively tom cruise and jeff bridges. The director has a style I dig and knows how to setup a world and solid 1st and 2nd acts but weak 3rd acts. That is not just an issue with this director but hollywood in general with lazy writers who dont know how to end films. I am bummed a tron sequel got canned but I understand why since its not a movie that is gonna make disney boat loads of cash with mass appeal.

 

[Octoberist]

Oblivion is one of the better critically praised scifi films in recent years, sure the 3rd act is alittle weak but overall it is a solid film. Legacy is pretty much you love it or hate it.

It wasn't praised though it has its fans. Critically praised would be 'Ex Machina', 'Edge of Tomorrow', 'Moon', etc.

I didn't mind it myself, but he's a weird director. Like I can't say that I love his movies but I don't think they're awful. they're often beautiful and enjoyable.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It wasn't praised though it has its fans. Critically praised would be 'Ex Machina', 'Edge of Tomorrow', 'Moon', etc.

I didn't mind it myself, but he's a weird director. Like I can't say that I love his movies but I don't think they're awful. they're often beautiful and enjoyable.

Again, post ignored.

 

[Octoberist]

hehe

 

[DarthSkywalker]

hehe

I never had two of the same films as you.

 

[Kane52630]

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/120692798894/whats-his-problem-tron-legacy

 

[Kane52630]

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/120673155599

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

All this professional discussion about the director, story telling, etc etc mean nothing for the average movie goer ( which I identify to even if I'm a geek ).
The audience want to be entertained not write an essay afterward.
The movie was a success, not huge one but still a success, it just failed to launch people enthusiasm for more.
Visual and design alone made the movie better than half the scifi crap we get in recent years.

Flynn Lives !

 

[terry78]

Aesthetically the movie is a work of moving art. People not familiar with Tron had never seen anything like this outside of animation before. He will always get props for being able to maintain the world of Tron and actually imaging how it would have evolved since 1982.