Superman Returns TW's assessment of SR - TW's 01/31 quarterly report will shed light

[bunk]

No loss and little gain is fine when you're making small movies, that's why Kevin Smith keeps getting movies. You make a movie that costs $20 mil, it takes in $10-30 at the Box Office, and another $30 on DVD. That's a minimal gain (no loss) film. And it's fine when the budget is low, under $30 mil.

When you're talking about films that have budgets exceeding $100 Million, it's simply not worth the time and effort, nor the risk, for it to only make minimal gain. When a property has already proven itself capable of minimal gain with a $100 million+ budget (in this case in excess of $200 million some reports have said), any movie executive in their right mind is either going to drastically change the formula behind the property (meaning talent) or direct that money towards more profitable projects

WB must like...believe in Singer or something.

 

[chosen1]

"Aw yeah, that golden rule." -- Bunk

 

[lexlives]

Yeah, that report didn't really tell us anything but praise the Oscar nominations (even for turds like "Poseidon"!) and some numbers we knew months ago.

I guess bloomberg got it right, SR was mediocre. No profit - no loss, basically a >nothing<. They only make money now, with cable/DVD sales. I have no idea how WB want to go on with that franchise with such a setup.

From a strictly financial point of view - the poor box office and the poor DVD sales and that bad DVD/BO ratio there is no reason to continue with the franchise. In fact the DVD/BO ration of less than 50 is one predicator audiences aren't going to turn out for a sequel in significantly more numbers than they did SR.

BB had a 67& ratio and SR just 46%.

The rental "through" was not good either - SR's rentals were good but normally good rentals - if the renting audience liked the film - lead to ongoing and sustained sales. SR had a big drop off in DVD sales though indicationg audiences who rented did not like it enough to purchase. It paralleled the BO - no legs. Interestingly X-Men 3 also did not have good DVD legs though its huge first week make it one of the DVD success stories this year. X2 and X1 had beter BO/DVD ratiuos. So the sequel to X3 which is a given because it still did huge numbers despite no legs will likely be creatively different. Fox will pay attention to things like ratios and make adjustments I'm sure.

The accountants will be presenting these numbers and gauges to Horn and his team over the next month or so and if you WB is not going to rethink a return of Retuirns I think you are wrong. JMHO.

I suspect a green light will not come but, if it does, its only because WB wants to tie Singer's services on other films to their studio.

 

[lexlives]

No loss and little gain is fine when you're making small movies, that's why Kevin Smith keeps getting movies. You make a movie that costs $20 mil, it takes in $10-30 at the Box Office, and another $30 on DVD. That's a minimal gain (no loss) film. And it's fine when the budget is low, under $30 mil.

When you're talking about films that have budgets exceeding $100 Million, it's simply not worth the time and effort, nor the risk, for it to only make minimal gain. When a property has already proven itself capable of minimal gain with a $100 million+ budget (in this case in excess of $200 million some reports have said), any movie executive in their right mind is either going to drastically change the formula behind the property (meaning talent) or direct that money towards more profitable projects

Exactly. No way in this situation that a studio continues with a failed product or team. You either revamp the team - a la Hulk - or spread your investment to other smaller films which have a greater profit potantial.

The reality of these numbers is stark and, at the end of the day, Horn and Robinov responsibility os the bottom line.

 

[lexlives]

well see about that.

You are right - a sequel with Singer attached just took a hit with the analysis of Bloomberg and others.

Horn and Robinove need to turn things around in the next 2 or so years or there jobs are on the line. Knowing that I have an increasingly firm belief that WB and Singer will part company because of "creative" differences by June. The DVD sales were the last hope fopr a sequel and they were poor so its over IMO. WB won't hint to this till after the Oscars as SR has a nom. But watch things quicly change in march - ShoWest will be very revealing as Horn will be asked directly the status of SR - since it won't be their 2009 tentpole film - as in where do things stand.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Exactly. No way in this situation that a studio continues with a failed product or team. You either revamp the team - a la Hulk - or spread your investment to other smaller films which have a greater profit potantial.

The reality of these numbers is stark and, at the end of the day, Horn and Robinov responsibility os the bottom line.

A film that grosses $200 million is hardly a failed product. A film that makes $100 million on DVD plus another $50 million in rentals domestic is hardly a failure.

*sigh* But there's just not getting through to ya. They've signed Singer. They've intended to make the sequel ever since SR hit the $200 million mark and they intend to make the next film more exciting in terms of action to draw in the male audience.

But I guess it's no use. You'll just spin everything, anyway. But come 2009 when we're sitting in a theater watching a brand new Bryan Singer Superman film, you'll simply be eating your words.

And I'm gonna laugh, long and hard.

 

[lexlives]

No loss and little gain is fine when you're making small movies, that's why Kevin Smith keeps getting movies. You make a movie that costs $20 mil, it takes in $10-30 at the Box Office, and another $30 on DVD. That's a minimal gain (no loss) film. And it's fine when the budget is low, under $30 mil.

When you're talking about films that have budgets exceeding $100 Million, it's simply not worth the time and effort, nor the risk, for it to only make minimal gain. When a property has already proven itself capable of minimal gain with a $100 million+ budget (in this case in excess of $200 million some reports have said), any movie executive in their right mind is either going to drastically change the formula behind the property (meaning talent) or direct that money towards more profitable projects

The fact that they are not drastically altering the team after SR essentially failed in every venue from BO to toys, makes me take with a grain of salt WB's signing Singer to come up with a script last fall. Notice we have not heard a word out of them since. I still say it was more show to boost the DVD than anything else.

The fact SR won't be announced their tentpole film for 2009 in 5 weeks at ShoWest when BB's sequel was a year ago means a lot. WB is not going to let its true intentions known till after Oscars on 02/28.

The numbers are not there and short of a radical re-haul, no studio would go forward with this kind of performance as its base.

If WB has announced pkans to "drastuically change the formula" then one could maybe beleive they were serious about continuing and doing a sequel. But given the brief announcement and no official comment now in 4 months its all for show IMO.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

A film that grosses $200 million is hardly a failed product. A film that makes $100 million on DVD plus another $50 million in rentals domestic is hardly a failure.

*sigh* But there's just not getting through to ya. They've signed Singer. They've intended to make the sequel ever since SR hit the $200 million mark and they intend to make the next film more exciting in terms of action to draw in the male audience.

But I guess it's no use. You'll just spin everything, anyway. But come 2009 when we're sitting in a theater watching a brand new Bryan Singer Superman film, you'll simply be eating your words.

And I'm gonna laugh, long and hard.

Me too, Lexlives get it through your HEAD, THEY ARE MAKING A SEQUEL TO SR WITH SINGER!

 

[dark_b]

Me too, Lexlives get it through your HEAD, THEY ARE MAKING A SEQUEL TO SR WITH SINGER!

the same could be said to you.
lexlives is makign fun of you all here. you can not be that dumb. you can not think like he does. its not impossible.

this is all a joke of him. and the mroe you qutoe him and talk serious with him and try to explain him the more power you give him. t:

 

[Showtime]

Lexlives is just getting you all riled up and he's always looking for that needle in a haystack.

 

[NHawk19]

A film that grosses $200 million is hardly a failed product. A film that makes $100 million on DVD plus another $50 million in rentals domestic is hardly a failure.

*sigh* But there's just not getting through to ya. They've signed Singer. They've intended to make the sequel ever since SR hit the $200 million mark and they intend to make the next film more exciting in terms of action to draw in the male audience.

But I guess it's no use. You'll just spin everything, anyway. But come 2009 when we're sitting in a theater watching a brand new Bryan Singer Superman film, you'll simply be eating your words.

And I'm gonna laugh, long and hard.

The fact that they had to make that statement, and that it took until October following the release for that to happen, may be an indication that they wont be proceeding with as much enthusiasm as one would like.

In fact now that the numbers are in they may change their minds entirely and shift focus elsewhere. Nothing in Hollywood is set in stone until the DVD is out.

 

[lexlives]

The fact that they had to make that statement, and that it took until October following the release for that to happen, may be an indication that they wont be proceeding with as much enthusiasm as one would like.

In fact now that the numbers are in they may change their minds entirely and shift focus elsewhere. Nothing in Hollywood is set in stone until the DVD is out.

You are so right. The revenue streams are all in now and WB/Horn will be deciding whether or not to continue the Superman franchise in the next few months.

Nothing is set in stone and the much hyped October announcement by WB was as much about helping the DVD as any actual decision to go ahead with a sequel,

The numbers are iffy and WB could probably go either way at this point, The changes to WW and Flash just announced are partially an amdission that the SR approach did not work and probably do not help the cause for an SR2.

 

[JamalYIgle]

You are so right. The revenue streams are all in now and WB/Horn will be deciding whether or not to continue the Superman franchise in the next few months.

Nothing is set in stone and the much hyped October announcement by WB was as much about helping the DVD as any actual decision to go ahead with a sequel,

The numbers are iffy and WB could probably go either way at this point, The changes to WW and Flash just announced are partially an amdission that the SR approach did not work and probably do not help the cause for an SR2.

you're reading way too much into the recent changes ovewr at WB. Project6s change hands and directors all the time, the fact that in David Goyer's situation, they decided to go with a more seasoned director and a different take than he was doing isn't unusual. In Whedons case, he hadn't gone forward, he never even finshed a tratment or begun any kind of casting. All he did was stall the project because he didn't have a handle on the project. Joel Silver wants to fast track the movie,so he bought another script that he liked.You keep trying to say the numbers are if considering that that's not true, I've already proven that. All you're doing is spreading false accusations and misinformation.

 

[lexlives]

you're reading way too much into the recent changes ovewr at WB. Project6s change hands and directors all the time, the fact that in David Goyer's situation, they decided to go with a more seasoned director and a different take than he was doing isn't unusual. In Whedons case, he hadn't gone forward, he never even finshed a tratment or begun any kind of casting. All he did was stall the project because he didn't have a handle on the project. Joel Silver wants to fast track the movie,so he bought another script that he liked.You keep trying to say the numbers are if considering that that's not true, I've already proven that. All you're doing is spreading false accusations and misinformation.

Well is it not just a tad curious IGN is reporting Singer is trying to land the director's gig for Sheriff of Nottingham which shoots in 2008? He can't do both a Returns sequel and Nottingham and with these other director changes it looks like something may be going on with Singer too,

 

[Showtime]

What makes this report any more relevant than any other reported rumor mill...Josh Harnett, Jim Caveizal, Tom Welling, Brendan Frasier, Keanu Reeves for Superman...

 

[JamalYIgle]

Well is it not just a tad curious IGN is reporting Singer is trying to land the director's gig for Sheriff of Nottingham which shoots in 2008? He can't do both a Returns sequel and Nottingham and with these other director changes it looks like something may be going on with Singer too,

Actually he can since Bad hat harry is big enough to shoot The Mayor of Castro Street, produce House and Prep SR for 2009. It takes 3 months to shoot a movie. Even if he did Sheriff, he'd still have enough time to shoot MOS for a winter 2009 release.

 

[green]

Actually he can since Bad Hat Harry is big enough to shoot The Mayor of Castro Street, produce House and Prep SR for 2009. It takes 3 months to shoot a movie. Even if he did Sheriff, he'd still have enough time to shoot MOS for a winter 2009 release.

Singer is in active devolpment on the American version of Footballers Wives for ABC too, he'll be directing the pilot.

 

[KaptainKrypton]

Well is it not just a tad curious IGN is reporting Singer is trying to land the director's gig for Sheriff of Nottingham which shoots in 2008? He can't do both a Returns sequel and Nottingham and with these other director changes it looks like something may be going on with Singer too,

He was busy with what he had been quoted as saying around seven or eight total projects (while simultaneously filming SR). He's pretty much nonstop in the working department, so there really wouldn't be much of a difference regarding a sequel. He, like any other director, doesn't have to be conjoined with the production during the prelim phases, but only during the important stuff...like filming, etc.

 

[KaptainKrypton]

you're reading way too much into the recent changes ovewr at WB. Project6s change hands and directors all the time, the fact that in David Goyer's situation, they decided to go with a more seasoned director and a different take than he was doing isn't unusual. In Whedons case, he hadn't gone forward, he never even finshed a tratment or begun any kind of casting. All he did was stall the project because he didn't have a handle on the project. Joel Silver wants to fast track the movie,so he bought another script that he liked.You keep trying to say the numbers are if considering that that's not true, I've already proven that. All you're doing is spreading false accusations and misinformation.

What's even funnier is that after YEARS of false starts and missed attempts, why in the blue hell would WB just up and start over with a film that ended up in the black? It'd be beyond retarted unless they had creative differences with the helmer, and even then the same franchise would continue anyway. Goyer and Whedon are likely to not be cheap and will still get paid for their work on Flash and WW, respectively. WB would be beyond ******ed to start over again with Superman considering they were tripping over their own damn feet since around 1993 to get a film in the can that wasn't actually finished until last year. They've started a franchise. Why some of the others don't understand this is beyond me, Jamal.

 

[Matt]

I think a lot of people who criticize Lex for overrationalizing to meet his point do the same exact thing to justify Singer. Why not just sit back and let the chips fall where they may?

 

[The Batman]

Yeah, cause those who defend singer basically lie in half their posts all the time.

 

[patrickbateman]

man This thread has lifted my spirits for days to come.