UK PWZ review opinion thread!!!
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Microchip
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Haha, good luck, about six or seven million of you need to see it if you want a sequel... so bring ALL your friends.
Congrats on getting a UK release though. It's nice you get a chance to see it in theatres too, because it's not a great movie, but it is a pretty fun movie.
Congrats on getting a UK release though. It's nice you get a chance to see it in theatres too, because it's not a great movie, but it is a pretty fun movie.
JohnnyViper
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I hope to see it this weekend, if everything works out there should be 6 or 7 of us watching it, so plenty of opinions to post.
cthulhu
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yep seen it last night so yeah not a great movie but it is enjoyable - always difficult to say what one thinks when one is such a fan of the character and has a clear idea of what the film should be. However this was a fun film and the action was well handled. I thought the performances were fine and the compositions and lighting were good too. There were a very few minor quibbles but nothing that ruined it for me. Im glad there were no points in it where I was bored or kinda embarrased. All in all it is the best Punisher film so far IMHO and a pretty accurate portrayal of the character. I could be improved in area of the script and plot but it could have been a total disaster so can't be too harsh given its short turnaround. Anyhow I'd say 7.5/10 with a definate rewatch value
There's been no promotion, no advertising, the reviews have been derisive at best and i can't think of a single person I know who's going to go see it.
Yep, we're screwing this file even worse than the yanks did.
Yep, we're screwing this file even worse than the yanks did.
NEONINJA007
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Seen this last night in Paisley up in Scotland (Freeeedoooommm) and I have to report that the movie was pretty great. It is right up there with Rambo for the sheer amount of Murder Death Kills.
Stevensons' Castle totally blew Janes' right out of the water. The film was 10 x better than most other ****e like Benjamin Button or Australia. My favourite kill was the chair leg in the eye socket move........no wait a minute it was the kill when the FBI agent says" I will need to call this one in". Before he has finished talking Frank has blew the chumps head clean off with a shot-gun.
Get John Woo for the next flick, keep Stevenson....fire the cinematogropher(this dude has a real hard-on for neon)
Everything about The Punisher (The Character) was great. Kudos to big Ray.
Stevensons' Castle totally blew Janes' right out of the water. The film was 10 x better than most other ****e like Benjamin Button or Australia. My favourite kill was the chair leg in the eye socket move........no wait a minute it was the kill when the FBI agent says" I will need to call this one in". Before he has finished talking Frank has blew the chumps head clean off with a shot-gun.
Get John Woo for the next flick, keep Stevenson....fire the cinematogropher(this dude has a real hard-on for neon)
Everything about The Punisher (The Character) was great. Kudos to big Ray.
Hey, Ive been browsing shh for years, ive barely ever posted. But I just saw the new Punisher and I really really need to vent. This is not going to be a positive post in the slightest, but bear with me.
First off I need to clarify that this is better than the Lundgren version. Thats not saying much. I'm not a fan of the 2004 version, but the translation of Bumpo dave and Joan the mouse were strong, and the russian scene was one of the best and most original moments in film for that whole year. Its a shame about the rest of the film, because lines like 'Gods gonna sit this one out' are not gonna fly. Neither is John Trovolta as a villain, whos not even a decent adversary because he answers to two cardboard cut out cuban gangsters.
The best thing, and the positive point that seems to be the general consensus is Tom Jane. And the potential there.
Now that my indifference is out of the way, let me explain why Hollywood just took 5 steps back with this reboot (why reboot anyway, get it half right first time, half the franchises are being tampered with in a heavy handed way to the detriment of the character)
Story story story, -I'm a huge fan of Ennis' run, for me its the definitive insight into the character because its the only one that has elevated castle into more than a crackpot. Hes a fully fleshed character, and even though there were highs and lows, he investigated a whole plethora of contemporary issues - prostitution, corruption, gangs, ethnicities and their place in society etc
But you cannot take loads of classic characters and mash them together, losing their heart and soul in the process. We had Loony Bin Jim, Jigsaw, ink, Pittsy, Soap, Micro, tiberius and his son, the jamaican Irish guy (Mcginty?) - Almost a best of cast in terms of recent Punisher story. None had proper conversations or interaction for them to be memorable, some good witty lines yes, but not a scene with meaning or heart that you take away with you after the film. You can take all the memories of blood and guts with you after, but if theres no character or soul then all youve got is generic action film no296858393945 in Hollywood history.
To eloborate on plot - we had a post 9/11 new york backdrop which isnt a bad idea, some generic blue chemical serum as a background fear (As annoying as MI3 when we dont actually learn what its going to be used for = its not the primary focus, but if you create an expectation, no matter minor its usually best to deliver an answer)
Castle shot a cop, we have an inkling of an emotional plot with his family. Shame it was nothing but 80's cheesyness, with a little girl full of sweetness and love forgiving the PYSCHOTIC WITH A SKULL ON HIS CHEST, and hugging, waving and holding the finger of a vigilante. Not strong at all, Castle on the verge of quitting out of shame was a non issue.
Jigsaw - This movie was all about him to be honest. Now i'm 5 eps into the Wire, and this is the only thing ive seen Dominic West in, and hes damn good in it. But what was with Jigsaw? He was ridiculously over the top, both with and without the terrible make up. It was almost a supernatural villain, but to be at odds with the Punisher who is gritty and down to earth and in this contect doesnt exist in any other world but our sorry own ddidnt work in the slightest. He was also ridiculously camp, in his white crocodile suit. Painful to watch, and the heroes only as good as the villain.
Loony Bin Jim was a loony, and took the role of that Tiny amazing martial arts guy in the Fury Russia arc of Ennis' run. Not a bad fight scene (which is what the movie had as its sole pro) but as a character, terrible. (yummy yummy yummy....scriptwriter needs to be hired)
Mcginty and his super fly streetrunners. Terrible.
Colour scheme - Well done, but not suited to this. Punisher is black, white and conflicts of shades of grey. Watchmen colours dont translate.
The FBI guy was an ok character, the accent annoyed me. Not sure if it was bad or because ive only seen him as brit in the Bond films. But again, hints of drama, but nothing with any meat to it.
What Did I like?
Ray Stevenson, like Jane showed major potential. Just dont give him lines from 80's action films and let him be a character.
Soap - Decent relief, well balanced. A character that ws actually almost faithful and well translated.
The armory and his hideout, not as good as Janes, but the weapons and knowledged seemed authentic and Stevenson looked a natural. Some of the effort into this clearly paid off.
Blood and gore was fine. As much as its blasphemy, character is priority and action is secondary (Hulk 03 got this right) Im willing to debate this, I'm aware that this is abit of a ridiculous statement when our hero is called the punisher. But character and plot, and the balance between the two is always the base of whatever product your making when youre creating a world and what happens in it.
Action is a by product of whos executing it - pun intended. The film went over the top at times (upside down chanderlier hang and slo mo are cliche..) but the original and well directed moments such as castle and the gang with the door between them shot followed by grenade made up for it.
I would kill for a Tom Jane and Ray Stevenson version where we see an old version on the edge and a young version. Batman style.
But first off a villain has to be picked thats gonna prove a challenge. John Trovolta and Jigsaw are too extremes, one is John Trovolta, and one is over the top. Both are ridiculous in their own way.
Cant think of much else, really needed to vent that. Apologies for typos and inconsistencies, didnt proof read.
First off I need to clarify that this is better than the Lundgren version. Thats not saying much. I'm not a fan of the 2004 version, but the translation of Bumpo dave and Joan the mouse were strong, and the russian scene was one of the best and most original moments in film for that whole year. Its a shame about the rest of the film, because lines like 'Gods gonna sit this one out' are not gonna fly. Neither is John Trovolta as a villain, whos not even a decent adversary because he answers to two cardboard cut out cuban gangsters.
The best thing, and the positive point that seems to be the general consensus is Tom Jane. And the potential there.
Now that my indifference is out of the way, let me explain why Hollywood just took 5 steps back with this reboot (why reboot anyway, get it half right first time, half the franchises are being tampered with in a heavy handed way to the detriment of the character)
Story story story, -I'm a huge fan of Ennis' run, for me its the definitive insight into the character because its the only one that has elevated castle into more than a crackpot. Hes a fully fleshed character, and even though there were highs and lows, he investigated a whole plethora of contemporary issues - prostitution, corruption, gangs, ethnicities and their place in society etc
But you cannot take loads of classic characters and mash them together, losing their heart and soul in the process. We had Loony Bin Jim, Jigsaw, ink, Pittsy, Soap, Micro, tiberius and his son, the jamaican Irish guy (Mcginty?) - Almost a best of cast in terms of recent Punisher story. None had proper conversations or interaction for them to be memorable, some good witty lines yes, but not a scene with meaning or heart that you take away with you after the film. You can take all the memories of blood and guts with you after, but if theres no character or soul then all youve got is generic action film no296858393945 in Hollywood history.
To eloborate on plot - we had a post 9/11 new york backdrop which isnt a bad idea, some generic blue chemical serum as a background fear (As annoying as MI3 when we dont actually learn what its going to be used for = its not the primary focus, but if you create an expectation, no matter minor its usually best to deliver an answer)
Castle shot a cop, we have an inkling of an emotional plot with his family. Shame it was nothing but 80's cheesyness, with a little girl full of sweetness and love forgiving the PYSCHOTIC WITH A SKULL ON HIS CHEST, and hugging, waving and holding the finger of a vigilante. Not strong at all, Castle on the verge of quitting out of shame was a non issue.
Jigsaw - This movie was all about him to be honest. Now i'm 5 eps into the Wire, and this is the only thing ive seen Dominic West in, and hes damn good in it. But what was with Jigsaw? He was ridiculously over the top, both with and without the terrible make up. It was almost a supernatural villain, but to be at odds with the Punisher who is gritty and down to earth and in this contect doesnt exist in any other world but our sorry own ddidnt work in the slightest. He was also ridiculously camp, in his white crocodile suit. Painful to watch, and the heroes only as good as the villain.
Loony Bin Jim was a loony, and took the role of that Tiny amazing martial arts guy in the Fury Russia arc of Ennis' run. Not a bad fight scene (which is what the movie had as its sole pro) but as a character, terrible. (yummy yummy yummy....scriptwriter needs to be hired)
Mcginty and his super fly streetrunners. Terrible.
Colour scheme - Well done, but not suited to this. Punisher is black, white and conflicts of shades of grey. Watchmen colours dont translate.
The FBI guy was an ok character, the accent annoyed me. Not sure if it was bad or because ive only seen him as brit in the Bond films. But again, hints of drama, but nothing with any meat to it.
What Did I like?
Ray Stevenson, like Jane showed major potential. Just dont give him lines from 80's action films and let him be a character.
Soap - Decent relief, well balanced. A character that ws actually almost faithful and well translated.
The armory and his hideout, not as good as Janes, but the weapons and knowledged seemed authentic and Stevenson looked a natural. Some of the effort into this clearly paid off.
Blood and gore was fine. As much as its blasphemy, character is priority and action is secondary (Hulk 03 got this right) Im willing to debate this, I'm aware that this is abit of a ridiculous statement when our hero is called the punisher. But character and plot, and the balance between the two is always the base of whatever product your making when youre creating a world and what happens in it.
Action is a by product of whos executing it - pun intended. The film went over the top at times (upside down chanderlier hang and slo mo are cliche..) but the original and well directed moments such as castle and the gang with the door between them shot followed by grenade made up for it.
I would kill for a Tom Jane and Ray Stevenson version where we see an old version on the edge and a young version. Batman style.
But first off a villain has to be picked thats gonna prove a challenge. John Trovolta and Jigsaw are too extremes, one is John Trovolta, and one is over the top. Both are ridiculous in their own way.
Cant think of much else, really needed to vent that. Apologies for typos and inconsistencies, didnt proof read.
JohnnyViper
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As dft-313 has stated, over here they didnt even bother to promote War Zone in anyway, shape or form
no commercials and I have never even seen a poster. Another annoying thing was the limited release it was given, None of my local Vue or Odeon Cinemas were even showing it, only Cineworld and Showcase. The showtimes werent too bad though (they had about 5 to choose from, early to late).
I managed to watch Punisher on Sunday Night 8th Feb at Cabot Circus Showcase and the final screening last Thursday night at the other Showcase in Bristol.
On Sunday they was about 25 30 people watching
Thursdays had 8 which included 3 friends and myself.
Now for my review
When I watched this movie for the first time last Sunday I kind of felt like I had been on a good rollercoaster ride, it was in your face action which was wasn't toned down, so that was a good thing! I liked the opening music but was a little unsure about the inclusion of scenes that were going to be shown later in the film, I think it wouldve been better if they had just kept to showing him preparing weapons/looking badass.
The Mob Family Massacre was good, a part of me wished the Mob boss lasted longer as I was finding him quite funny especially when he was arguing with Billy and Pitsy - "You greasy ****!"
I think they werent really sure what angle they wanted to focus the story on since youve got so many things going on...
Billy Russo wants to rule,
Jigsaw wants revenge,
FBI worried about 9/11 part 2,
Frank wanting to quit and then wanting to protect the widow and daughter,
FBI Agents wants to arrest Castle,
A gang doing parkour.
It was easy to follow but due to the inclusion of so much I felt there wasn't as much depth as their could've been especially with the amount of comic characters they decided to use.
I loved Ray as Frank Castle, I liked how Tom portrayed the punisher but he lacked the aged/hard-done-by look that Ray seems to express, its all in the eyes and he was fierce! I also liked when he attemps to smile, I felt he had done his homework and really tried to portray Frank Castle in the correct manner fans could appreciate.
What I wouldve like to have seen:
I wish they had given Frank more lines and delved deeper into his character (possibly with more flashbacks showing what made him into the Punisher) .sometimes I felt he didnt have enough screentime.
I feel Looney Bin Jim lived upto his name, the mirror smashing was fun even though that may have played a part in the movie doing so poorly at the box office. His craziness came across with alot of humor, I'm not sure if this was intentional but I enjoyed his scenes and loved the hand to hand combat with the Punisher.
Out of the two, Jigsaw seemed pretty weak and actually got completely owned by the Punisher, whereas LBJ appeared to be matching Frank albeit his dirty fighting tactics.
I kinda felt in was pointless showcasing Maginty with his gang as we didnt really get to see them causing trouble (apart from the aftermath of it) I had no issues with the guy getting blown up in mid-air (I found it hilarious, and it got laughs from the other viewers) the other guy getting shot between the eyes was ok, but I was a little disappointed with how fast Maginty was taken down! Early on in the movie hes described as a badass on a constant meth high, I was expecting some sort of rooftop battle which wouldve ultimately ended with his impalement on that spiked fence.
Other minor gripes were the way the flash backs were handled, I thought the part by the grave was good and quite strong, but when Grace was looking at that snow globe carousel I was expecting another flashback to take place which actually showed his family murder sequence .and how he managed to survive.
I loved the LBJ fight but wished it had lasted longer .I was also expecting Frank to knock his teeth out or something along those lines especially after taking that harsh bite to the neck
And finally the brief showdown/game with Jigsaw ..it built up a little tension but I kinda ended up wanting LBJ to survive ..he promised his brother hed kill the punisher slowly so I think a good twist couldve involved his survival. (But I suppose if the bride can survive a bullet to the head in Kill Bill, anyone can
)
I had no problem with Jigsaws death but the way he was defeated expresses how he was never really a threat to the Punisher, the only way he was hurting Frank was by threatening and killing the innocent. With a character like the Punisher you really need a villain thats going to appear as ruthless, sadistic, selfish, strong and evil, but with Jigsaw prancing around and whining for money the audience already knows its only a matter of time before his demise.
For me, some of the Scenes came across as funny even though it was most likely unintentional. But as far as Superhero movies go it delivers in the entertainment aspect and although some of my comments might seem contrived I did honestly enjoy this movie and will go as far as to say it is my favourite Punisher Movie, having now seen all 3. If that Directors cut does exist I look forward to seeing what was left on the cutting room floor as the extended 2004 edition definitely improved that movie.
All in all, I know its probably highly unlikely but I would like to see Ray as Frank Castle one last time but only if they could learn from some of the minor mistakes which couldve made this the Punisher everyone could enjoy, I do think its harder for a character like Frank Castle to have a huge following mainly due to his mental state and his methods of dealing with the corrupt. Most of the comic book characters end up doing the right thing villains get beaten and put in jail or an asylum but with the Punisher youre pretty much guaranteed an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, shoot first questions later.
Perhaps a straight to dvd sequel or even a 5 to 10 part series has potential to work as I feel Ray personifies the Punisher and is very close to how I wanted Frank Castle to be onscreen.
I've put in a preorder so bring on the Bluray!
I managed to watch Punisher on Sunday Night 8th Feb at Cabot Circus Showcase and the final screening last Thursday night at the other Showcase in Bristol.
On Sunday they was about 25 30 people watching
Thursdays had 8 which included 3 friends and myself.
Now for my review
When I watched this movie for the first time last Sunday I kind of felt like I had been on a good rollercoaster ride, it was in your face action which was wasn't toned down, so that was a good thing! I liked the opening music but was a little unsure about the inclusion of scenes that were going to be shown later in the film, I think it wouldve been better if they had just kept to showing him preparing weapons/looking badass.
The Mob Family Massacre was good, a part of me wished the Mob boss lasted longer as I was finding him quite funny especially when he was arguing with Billy and Pitsy - "You greasy ****!"
I think they werent really sure what angle they wanted to focus the story on since youve got so many things going on...
Billy Russo wants to rule,
Jigsaw wants revenge,
FBI worried about 9/11 part 2,
Frank wanting to quit and then wanting to protect the widow and daughter,
FBI Agents wants to arrest Castle,
A gang doing parkour.
It was easy to follow but due to the inclusion of so much I felt there wasn't as much depth as their could've been especially with the amount of comic characters they decided to use.
I loved Ray as Frank Castle, I liked how Tom portrayed the punisher but he lacked the aged/hard-done-by look that Ray seems to express, its all in the eyes and he was fierce! I also liked when he attemps to smile, I felt he had done his homework and really tried to portray Frank Castle in the correct manner fans could appreciate.
What I wouldve like to have seen:
I wish they had given Frank more lines and delved deeper into his character (possibly with more flashbacks showing what made him into the Punisher) .sometimes I felt he didnt have enough screentime.
I feel Looney Bin Jim lived upto his name, the mirror smashing was fun even though that may have played a part in the movie doing so poorly at the box office. His craziness came across with alot of humor, I'm not sure if this was intentional but I enjoyed his scenes and loved the hand to hand combat with the Punisher.
Out of the two, Jigsaw seemed pretty weak and actually got completely owned by the Punisher, whereas LBJ appeared to be matching Frank albeit his dirty fighting tactics.
I kinda felt in was pointless showcasing Maginty with his gang as we didnt really get to see them causing trouble (apart from the aftermath of it) I had no issues with the guy getting blown up in mid-air (I found it hilarious, and it got laughs from the other viewers) the other guy getting shot between the eyes was ok, but I was a little disappointed with how fast Maginty was taken down! Early on in the movie hes described as a badass on a constant meth high, I was expecting some sort of rooftop battle which wouldve ultimately ended with his impalement on that spiked fence.
Other minor gripes were the way the flash backs were handled, I thought the part by the grave was good and quite strong, but when Grace was looking at that snow globe carousel I was expecting another flashback to take place which actually showed his family murder sequence .and how he managed to survive.
I loved the LBJ fight but wished it had lasted longer .I was also expecting Frank to knock his teeth out or something along those lines especially after taking that harsh bite to the neck
And finally the brief showdown/game with Jigsaw ..it built up a little tension but I kinda ended up wanting LBJ to survive ..he promised his brother hed kill the punisher slowly so I think a good twist couldve involved his survival. (But I suppose if the bride can survive a bullet to the head in Kill Bill, anyone can
)I had no problem with Jigsaws death but the way he was defeated expresses how he was never really a threat to the Punisher, the only way he was hurting Frank was by threatening and killing the innocent. With a character like the Punisher you really need a villain thats going to appear as ruthless, sadistic, selfish, strong and evil, but with Jigsaw prancing around and whining for money the audience already knows its only a matter of time before his demise.
For me, some of the Scenes came across as funny even though it was most likely unintentional. But as far as Superhero movies go it delivers in the entertainment aspect and although some of my comments might seem contrived I did honestly enjoy this movie and will go as far as to say it is my favourite Punisher Movie, having now seen all 3. If that Directors cut does exist I look forward to seeing what was left on the cutting room floor as the extended 2004 edition definitely improved that movie.
All in all, I know its probably highly unlikely but I would like to see Ray as Frank Castle one last time but only if they could learn from some of the minor mistakes which couldve made this the Punisher everyone could enjoy, I do think its harder for a character like Frank Castle to have a huge following mainly due to his mental state and his methods of dealing with the corrupt. Most of the comic book characters end up doing the right thing villains get beaten and put in jail or an asylum but with the Punisher youre pretty much guaranteed an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, shoot first questions later.
Perhaps a straight to dvd sequel or even a 5 to 10 part series has potential to work as I feel Ray personifies the Punisher and is very close to how I wanted Frank Castle to be onscreen.
I've put in a preorder so bring on the Bluray!
StylishHokie21
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Great posts from Johnny and Chase! 
Matt Mortem
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I agree with everyone's reviews on here. The movie could have been better, but it certainly wasn't terrible. Let's hope DVD reviews make em some good cash
chamber-music
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There isn't an ounce of promotion for this flick
After much hesitation I finally saw the movie. What a pile of stinky poo. What where they thinking? The violence was so over the top it was comic. The Punisher shouldn't make you chuckle and laugh. And what's up with the cartoony world? It reminded me of Dick Tracy with all the colored buildings and lights except Dick Tracy was trying to look like a comic strip/cartoon. Awful waste of money and time. The script was horrible and the acting was plain childish. Jigsaw is the stupidest villain I ever saw. Even Gargamel from the Smurfs is more menacing. Being ugly is not enough.
Now I have to gather my energy to face The Spirit but it will be another pile of poo it seems.
Now I have to gather my energy to face The Spirit but it will be another pile of poo it seems.
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