Ultimate Power

[The Question]

In Ultimate War

I really need to reread that.

No its not. In issue 4 of the ultimates 2 loki says the harness was constructed 24months ago. Now the ultimates 2 is set a year after ultimates 1 which itself is a couple of months after magnetos very first attack on on washington so the timeline buts colossus's appearance being after the belt was made. (thor himself 'stole' the equipment 18months prior to ultimates 2 issue 4 which still puts him ahead of colossus)
So the equipment was DEFINETLY made prior to colossus gaining fame.

Well, actually, the equipment was never made at all, since that was all Loki's BS.

In fact the language is VERY guarded it specifically says "unseen" and because colossus hadn't been seen at that point it's safe to say he's not included.

Good point. Still, it seems like it can be interpreted either way.

Hawkeye literally says "he's been beating the crap out of thor for ten minutes"

So even if thor was suprised the length of the confrontation shouldn't have let that happen.

Which is why I say it was a screw up on Millar's part.

Thats a massive amount of guess work on your part.
Bottom line the creator of both characters put them in a physical fight where thor could only use his strength and thor lost.
If he could have used his other powers I'm pretty sure thor would have won

Of course it's guesswork. There are big descrepencies in how one character's power levels have been portrayed from story to story. All we have is guess work.

Not disputing that at all, only that colossus is stronger.

power DOES NOT equal strength (i'm not sure how many times i can say this).

But strength is a large aspect of power. Especially in Thor's case. Powers displayed by Ultimate Thor are thus:

Flight

Super strength

Invulnerability

Energy blasts

Weather control

Mind reading (although that may have simply been Thor being good at reading people)

Based on how Loki has been portrayed so far, it would seem to me that Thor has all of those in major abundance to be a threat to Loki. And probably more than most other people.

Durability does not equal strength.



If we're going to argue that though thor was hurt and injured by a flame thrower whereas colossus was uninjured by molten lava AND a 'localised nuke'.

The flamethrower only burned his hair off. He didn't seem to be in any physical pain or to have suffered any other injury.

 

[gildea]

That would be pathetic really. Roaches survive nuclear energy, yet can be crushed by humans. Durability from energy reactions such as heat means nothing really. Direct physical mass on mass beating is what I meant.

But as colossus was a ground zero he would have felt the physical force of the explosion.

And also, we have no comparison for it. I could say that Thor taking a beating from those Skrull ships would be worth more in damage, but since I don't have a comparison for them, I'm leaving them out of it too.

You could but given that he took no beating from the skrull ships you'd be making it up.

 

[gildea]

But strength is a large aspect of power. Especially in Thor's case. Powers displayed by Ultimate Thor are thus:

Flight

Super strength

Invulnerability

Energy blasts

Weather control

Mind reading (although that may have simply been Thor being good at reading people)

Based on how Loki has been portrayed so far, it would seem to me that Thor has all of those in major abundance to be a threat to Loki. And probably more than most other people.

I'm not arguing that in a fair fight colossus would beat thor.

In a fair fight with no on around colossus is going down, big time.

 

[The Question]

1. The thor vs colossus fight

Which we've already discussed.

2. All the feats of raw strength colossus has performed

3. That thor has performed NO feats of raw strength

Which actually makes it much harder to decide wether Collosus is stronger than Thor, since there are no feats that Thor has preformed to compare.

4. The wizard strength charts

Which are absolute BS. There's no way The Hulk, as portrayed in The Ultimates, can only lift 18 tons.

 

[gildea]

Which is why I say it was a screw up on Millar's part.

Given that he created both he can't really be accused of screwing up their strength levels.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

But as colossus was a ground zero he would have felt the physical force of the explosion.

And? It wasn't a true nuclear class weapon.

You could but given that he took no beating from the skrull ships you'd be making it up.

Actually, just because it didn't show twenty frames of a race just plumelling a single target that tons of ships were trained on with energy weapons and such.... I'd be inclined to say that Thor took something of a beating. He isn't a dodgy shifty type. He's more of a direct, brute power type. You know, if you REALLY believe that Thor and Big C took a ten minute fight, despite only maybe ten to twelve frames were devoted to a fight, that only seemed to last all of two minutes, maybe, then you'll have to think that more than just what is shown to you happens.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Given that he created both he can't really be accused of screwing up their strength levels.

Jenkins created the Sentry, and messed his power levels up.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Which we've already discussed.





Which actually makes it much harder to decide wether Collosus is stronger than Thor, since there are no feats that Thor has preformed to compare.



Which are absolute BS. There's no way The Hulk, as portrayed in The Ultimates, can only lift 18 tons.

Agreed. Titanium as that giant was, TONS of those parts would've been forged of carbonized steel, and would've weighed WELL over thirty to forty tons.

 

[gildea]

double post

 

[gildea]

Actually, just because it didn't show twenty frames of a race just plumelling a single target that tons of ships were trained on with energy weapons and such.... I'd be inclined to say that Thor took something of a beating. He isn't a dodgy shifty type. He's more of a direct, brute power type. You know, if you REALLY believe that Thor and Big C took a ten minute fight, despite only maybe ten to twelve frames were devoted to a fight, that only seemed to last all of two minutes, maybe, then you'll have to think that more than just what is shown to you happens.

Well lets see, there is no evidence for thor being hit by a skrull ship BUT there is evidence for the fight lasting 10 minutes.

You're reaching, I have actual evidence for my claim and you have nothing but assumption for yours.

If we're going to make assumptions regarding the ships and thor I would observe a few things firstly a lot of the ships were damaged (the skrulls were retreating from something else in the galaxy). Secondly thor was engaging the ships at very close range so he couldn't be shot without endangering the ship he was hitting with his hammer. Thirdly I doubt the ships were designed to fight people at that range. Fourthly even if it didn;t cause injury we have been shown that fire can singe thors hair so if he was hit by a beam from the ships its reasonable to assume his hair would have been singed.

 

[gildea]

double post (dunno why this keeps happening)

 

[gildea]

Jenkins created the Sentry, and messed his power levels up.

how?

The sentry as written has very inconstant power levels due to his craziness so thats easily explained.

 

[The Question]

Given that he created both he can't really be accused of screwing up their strength levels.

First of all, I really wouldn't call making an Ultimate version of a character creating a new character. And anyway, yes he can. It is possible to screw up when writing, even if it's your own stuff.

 

[Docker2.0]

Never question 616 Thor's strength.

Ever!

Its the truth though. If a train was out of control, you wouldn't see Thor stop it with his bare hands, you'd see him use mjolnir to teleport or something to that resort. He rarely uses brute strength but uses mjolnir in most situations. I'd love to see Thor attempt to move a small moon or strike the earth with his bare fist to see if he can cause an earthquake just to see his strength range.

 

[The Question]

Well lets see, there is no evidence for thor being hit by a skrull ship BUT there is evidence for the fight lasting 10 minutes.

You're reaching, I have actual evidence for my claim and you have nothing but assumption for yours.

If we're going to make assumptions regarding the ships and thor I would observe a few things firstly a lot of the ships were damaged (the skrulls were retreating from something else in the galaxy). Secondly thor was engaging the ships at very close range so he couldn't be shot without endangering the ship he was hitting with his hammer. Thirdly I doubt the ships were designed to fight people at that range. Fourthly even if it didn;t cause injury we have been shown that fire can singe thors hair so if he was hit by a beam from the ships its reasonable to assume his hair would have been singed.

If the ships fired heat beams. They could have been concussion beams, which would have made alot of sense, since there was no fire on the ground until Herr Kleiser blew up a truck full of jet fuel.

 

[deemar325]

Girl Fight!!!!!!

 

[Docker2.0]

The Question is a girl?!

 

[gildea]

Uh I'm not a girl either.


Anyway on reflection I think I've probably placed a bit too much stock on the thor/colossus fight, thought I don't subscribe to the 'suprise' theory due to the lack of any evidence for it I do have to concecde there is nothing clear cut in thor vs colossus directly simply because as question points out thor hasn't had his strength tested.

So though I inherently believe colossus is stronger that as much a guess as anything else.

......so hyperion?

 

[deemar325]

I thought you was a chick.

Damn you have chick tendencies in your posts.

 

[deemar325]

No offense.

 

[gildea]

none taken.

Believe it or not it happens all the time.


I need to get a butch sig or something...

 

[deemar325]

none taken.

Believe it or not it happens all the time.


I need to get a butch sig or something...

That would help, nothings more 'Butch' than Sam Jackson.

Try Bruce Willis over Batman.

 

[Docker2.0]

When will we see Ultimate Sentry?

 

[bkhedr]

Yes ... You are Biased

admittedly t:

 

[bkhedr]

Its the truth though. If a train was out of control, you wouldn't see Thor stop it with his bare hands, you'd see him use mjolnir to teleport or something to that resort. He rarely uses brute strength but uses mjolnir in most situations. I'd love to see Thor attempt to move a small moon or strike the earth with his bare fist to see if he can cause an earthquake just to see his strength range.

I suppose you have a point but look at this way, if you had a magic war hammer that could do all the things mjolnir can would you use your fists?