The Dark Knight Viral characters in the film (contains SPOILERS)

[Un1que]

I'm pretty sure that the place the Joker first confronts the mobsters is the back of Pasquale's Bistro and likewise, the place that Bruce and his Russian ballerina and Rachel and Harvey have dinner (it looks like it, plus, he says he owns the place--which he kind of does, as it says on that episode of Gotham Tonight).

You Might Be Onto Something There With Bruce And Pasquale's Bistro, Because If you Remember in the Film [BLACKOUT]Bruce Was Making deals With Lau Just To Take A Closer Look At His Accounting Books, and his Money Laundering With The Mob [/BLACKOUT] So Maybe He Knew that The Back of Pasquale's Was The Mob Hangout, that Is if It Is...

 

[AgentONeal]

Can someone fill me in as to why Brian was such a polarizing figure? I followed CFB for a while, got their package in the mail, and was really sad to see that it was him who was killed by the Joker.

 

[DanTheDevil]

Can someone fill me in as to why Brian was such a polarizing figure? I followed CFB for a while, got their package in the mail, and was really sad to see that it was him who was killed by the Joker.

It was his bumbling and incompetence that got Glenn Barhyte killed. Some people blame him for Glenn's death and think he deserved his punishment.

 

[AgentONeal]

It was his bumbling and incompetence that got Glenn Barhyte killed. Some people blame him for Glenn's death and think he deserved his punishment.

Hm, I can see that, but at the same time -- would you blame Batman himself for Rachel's death? It was sort of his fault that it happened the way it did.

I wouldn't say that Brian and Batman are on the same level of competence, but I would imagine that Brian felt incredibly responsible for his death.

Which is why during the movie I really felt sick when he was killed, especially in that way.

 

[BigDogW]

Hm, I can see that, but at the same time -- would you blame Batman himself for Rachel's death? It was sort of his fault that it happened the way it did.

I wouldn't say that Brian and Batman are on the same level of competence, but I would imagine that Brian felt incredibly responsible for his death.

Which is why during the movie I really felt sick when he was killed, especially in that way.

Spoiler

no the joker told then that dent was where rachel was and rachel waa where dent was to be and batman went to get rachel but fund dent instead so rachel died b/c of jokernot batman and Brain had what was coming to him for stealing my board name that bastard

 

[FromThisGirl]

Well, the Brian-Deserved-What-He-Got argument has been done time and time again, and I'd feel sympathy for him if it weren't for the fact that immediately after Glenn died he was ready to jump back on the horse and get involved in more things that were beyond him. The biggest argument against him is also that he, unlike Batman, involved others in his vigilante activities, and there were people throughout the game that got hurt because of this. After a while, I honestly think that Brian should have put a stop to CFB and either leave it to Batman or he should have done things alone. That way he'd be responsible only for himself, and anyone that decided to do the same would also only be responsible for themselves. I liked that he got punished, and I liked that it was the Joker, but it still didn't keep me from cringing when I saw the video. Of course, that's more of a testament to the Joker than anything else.

Also, I can definitely say that wasn't Dana in the audience when Dent claimed he was Batman. This woman was younger, and had slightly longer hair.

 

[cinematheque]

Hm, I can see that, but at the same time -- would you blame Batman himself for Rachel's death? It was sort of his fault that it happened the way it did.

I wouldn't say that Brian and Batman are on the same level of competence, but I would imagine that Brian felt incredibly responsible for his death.

Which is why during the movie I really felt sick when he was killed, especially in that way.

I don't agree that this has much similarity to the Rachel situation. I mean whenever anybody is killed, somebody feels responsible, so that's...a different beast.

But I think in the case of Brian, the thing that made me angry WAS that he was killed. In the first place I was so mad at him for getting Glenn killed...that I thought the only way he could be worthy is if he didn't up and get himself killed. It's kind of paradoxical that I feel like Brian deserved to die because he got himself killed, but that's the way I feel about it. I mean Glenn essentially took the bullet on Brian's behalf, and then, instead of realizing that Glenn died to save him, Brian decides to go and continue being a screw-up? The best way he could have honored Glenn is by continuing what Glenn was trying to do when he died--protecting Brian. Like a heart transplant, does it seem like it's worth it to give the heart to a 70-year-old alchoholic chainsmoker? That's what happened. Glenn died trying to save Brian from his own fumbling incompetence, and instead of taking, what, thirty seconds to realize this, he went out and continued risking his neck with the same fumbling incompetence?

The worst part is, his goal became convoluted. At some point the problem with CFB, and the reason I'm not even that fond of them, is because they all took it too far. The fact is that Bats was their hero. Loving the Batman is okay. Admiring him. Even trying to emulate him, to a point. But here's a tip--when Batman HIMSELF calls shenanigans, you're no longer doing that anymore and you've lost sight of your goal. Brian became obsessed with some misplaced desire to do something and only created more chaos. And the problem with Brian's chaos, and why I can hate Brian for such chaos and love the Joker for his chaos, is that Brian's was a result of his stupidity. It was counter to his purpose and he was too blind to even notice.

I mean that's why the Joker becomes so many of our heroes. Because he's the agent of chaos but because most of all, the chaos he creates is so easy, because people just play right into it. And Brian is contributory to the problem. I dislike Brian and CFB in the same way that I hate the mob, and Garcetti, and Joseph Candoloro...because they're all idiots. They're too stupid and too self-obsessed to consider anything outside of their own little worlds. I mean the point I'm trying to make, rather inarticulately, is because it always seemed to me that the Joker was trying to weed out stupidity and to expose people for who they really were. He creates disorder by destroying the things he considers to be a waste of space. And that's what Brian is. He's a waste. He wasted Glenn's life, and he wasted his own. Not only did he die in vain but he made somebody else, somebody who was NOT a waste of space, die in vain.

 

[FromThisGirl]

I don't agree that this has much similarity to the Rachel situation. I mean whenever anybody is killed, somebody feels responsible, so that's...a different beast.

But I think in the case of Brian, the thing that made me angry WAS that he was killed. In the first place I was so mad at him for getting Glenn killed...that I thought the only way he could be worthy is if he didn't up and get himself killed. It's kind of paradoxical that I feel like Brian deserved to die because he got himself killed, but that's the way I feel about it. I mean Glenn essentially took the bullet on Brian's behalf, and then, instead of realizing that Glenn died to save him, Brian decides to go and continue being a screw-up? The best way he could have honored Glenn is by continuing what Glenn was trying to do when he died--protecting Brian. Like a heart transplant, does it seem like it's worth it to give the heart to a 70-year-old alchoholic chainsmoker? That's what happened. Glenn died trying to save Brian from his own fumbling incompetence, and instead of taking, what, thirty seconds to realize this, he went out and continued risking his neck with the same fumbling incompetence?

The worst part is, his goal became convoluted. At some point the problem with CFB, and the reason I'm not even that fond of them, is because they all took it too far. The fact is that Bats was their hero. Loving the Batman is okay. Admiring him. Even trying to emulate him, to a point. But here's a tip--when Batman HIMSELF calls shenanigans, you're no longer doing that anymore and you've lost sight of your goal. Brian became obsessed with some misplaced desire to do something and only created more chaos. And the problem with Brian's chaos, and why I can hate Brian for such chaos and love the Joker for his chaos, is that Brian's was a result of his stupidity. It was counter to his purpose and he was too blind to even notice.

I mean that's why the Joker becomes so many of our heroes. Because he's the agent of chaos but because most of all, the chaos he creates is so easy, because people just play right into it. And Brian is contributory to the problem. I dislike Brian and CFB in the same way that I hate the mob, and Garcetti, and Joseph Candoloro...because they're all idiots. They're too stupid and too self-obsessed to consider anything outside of their own little worlds. I mean the point I'm trying to make, rather inarticulately, is because it always seemed to me that the Joker was trying to weed out stupidity and to expose people for who they really were. He creates disorder by destroying the things he considers to be a waste of space. And that's what Brian is. He's a waste. He wasted Glenn's life, and he wasted his own. Not only did he die in vain but he made somebody else, somebody who was NOT a waste of space, die in vain.

*claps* Also, I think I often think that a greater punishment would be live with the knowledge that you caused the death of one of your closest friends. Death in itself seems like little punishment to me, instead it seems just like a method to keep one from doing more stupidities. The only thing that does balance it out for me though is that it was the Joker who killed him, and we all know that he definitely didn't do it quickly or gently. *sighs* My hero... whom I admire from far, far away.

 

[a cupcake mess]

I got chills when the Joker was asking for Bri to look at him and when he didn't, the Joker's voice suddenly got all huskey when he screamed at him.

 

[LQBigCountry]

Anita i think you missed the biggest ARG related event in the movie and the ARG told us right off the bat what was going to happen:

Joker targets Harvey Dent.

The viral started with Joker defacing Dent's webpage(ibelieveinharveydenttoo.com) and he exposes Gotham's White Knight for what he truly is(whysoserious.com/myhero). All along he was telling us who he was going to take down. It was the undertone of the whole ARG.

 

[james doe]

What shocked me the most was the judge: Nancy Surillo.
How did 42 know she would win the election? I mean obviously they could have rigged the election results, but she was leading the exits polls I read here.
Dent was obviously going to win, and I can 42 banking on all of us to vote for Garcia. But we hadn't heard anything about any of the judges.
My kudos to 42 entertainment who really know how to rig an election. This blew my mind as I walked out of the theatre.

 

[Anita18]

Anita i think you missed the biggest ARG related event in the movie and the ARG told us right off the bat what was going to happen:

Joker targets Harvey Dent.

The viral started with Joker defacing Dent's webpage(ibelieveinharveydenttoo.com) and he exposes Gotham's White Knight for what he truly is(whysoserious.com/myhero). All along he was telling us who he was going to take down. It was the undertone of the whole ARG.

I always miss the obvious ones. The line "Why so serious?" didn't occur to me until like, 4 days I had seen it.

What shocked me the most was the judge: Nancy Surillo.
How did 42 know she would win the election? I mean obviously they could have rigged the election results, but she was leading the exits polls I read here.
Dent was obviously going to win, and I can 42 banking on all of us to vote for Garcia. But we hadn't heard anything about any of the judges.
My kudos to 42 entertainment who really know how to rig an election. This blew my mind as I walked out of the theatre.

GAH missed that too!

 

[Anita18]

What shocked me the most was the judge: Nancy Surillo.
How did 42 know she would win the election? I mean obviously they could have rigged the election results, but she was leading the exits polls I read here.
Dent was obviously going to win, and I can 42 banking on all of us to vote for Garcia. But we hadn't heard anything about any of the judges.
My kudos to 42 entertainment who really know how to rig an election. This blew my mind as I walked out of the theatre.

Nevermind, they're on GCN.

 

[LostGuy]

I loved that the Joker killed a CFB member, and that it was Brian. Not because I think he deserved it or whatever, but because it made me feel even more part of the story. There I was, sitting in a crowded theater, wearing my CFB button and having more connections to the movie than pretty much everyone around me. I couldn't feel happier.

 

[Quinzel]

I don't know what made me happier, the fact that it was Brian Douglass, or the Joker video that followed....
Wait yeah it's the video. lol.

And did the joker card on him say "will the real batman please stand up"?

Cause the theater i went to, this guy started talking on his phone and it distracted me.

 

[AutoDecept]

I don't know what made me happier, the fact that it was Brian Douglass, or the Joker video that followed....
Wait yeah it's the video. lol.

And did the joker card on him say "will the real batman please stand up"?

Cause the theater i went to, this guy started talking on his phone and it distracted me.

Yes, it did.

 

[harleyquinn19]

I just can't quit that Wiki!

"I can't quit you!"

 

[harleyquinn19]

It made me ever so happy...t:

Me too. I blamed that little **** for Glenn's death. Call me morbid, but that was some sweet redemption right there.

 

[harleyquinn19]

I'd feel sympathy for him if it weren't for the fact that immediately after Glenn died he was ready to jump back on the horse and get involved in more things that were beyond him.

Amen to that.

 

[Quinzel]

True.

 

[jdlynch1]

Me too. I blamed that little **** for Glenn's death. Call me morbid, but that was some sweet redemption right there.

lol, I didn't feel bad after I realized he was a fat guy in a hockey batman suit. So he technically wasn't really "trying" to help, if he was "trying" he would have worked out a little. The scene with noose did scare the S*** out of me though.t:

 

[thesushi]

It was really sad to see such ambition (in deference to stupidity) from a local citizen like BriDog/Atoz, but in my opinion, the use of such a sad character to lead CFB (again, in deference to stereotypical visions of bumbling character) really lends creedence to the contrary idea of Batman, which is the people of Gotham standing up for themselves against real crime. Despite the warm fuzzies of human solidarity, I would say that if that's the best Gotham can do, well, Batman isn't going anywhere.

Delusions of Atoz let me think that the fear toxin hit more people outside of the narrows without their knowledge, and lend credibility to a third film addressing that effect.

Nolan might just need to be recognized in February with Heath...

 

[MadAnthonyWayne]

i miss glenn. he would have been great in the movie. a natural star.

 

[cinematheque]

*claps* Also, I think I often think that a greater punishment would be live with the knowledge that you caused the death of one of your closest friends. Death in itself seems like little punishment to me, instead it seems just like a method to keep one from doing more stupidities. The only thing that does balance it out for me though is that it was the Joker who killed him, and we all know that he definitely didn't do it quickly or gently. *sighs* My hero... whom I admire from far, far away.

I agree. You know, it's kind of like...Hannibal Lecter really only killed and ate people he thought were scourges upon society. Like the symphony orchestra had a really bad flute player, who disappears suddenly...because Hannibal killed him and cooked him (and served him to the symphony...), because he was a blight upon the symphony orchestra. It's a service to society in his opinion.

I bring this up because the Joker seems to have a similar viewpoint--he kills the people he thinks are useless. It's why he doesn't kill Batman--because he doesn't think of Batman as useless, because in a strange way, Batman and J-man have similar goals, although different motives. But both are disgusted by the mob--the Joker because he hates how their lives revolve around things, and Batman because they hurt society. But they both hate the mob. And it's like that with Brian--Batman ties him up and tries to get him to quit what he's doing, because it's additive and not subtractive to the problem (imagine you're trying to fight mob bosses and fear toxin and vicious dogs and a bunch of little kids are running around going, "I wanna play too!"), and the Joker thinks that he's really useless because he's too much of an idiot to attempt what Batman is doing. I think the fact that he's so vicious to Brian is almost that the JOKER doesn't think Brian is worthy of Batman--and because the Joker admits that Batman is a very good enemy indeed, because he, unlike so many others, is not stupid and talentless.

I got chills when the Joker was asking for Bri to look at him and when he didn't, the Joker's voice suddenly got all huskey when he screamed at him.

I agree. I was talking to some people about that yesterday and it WAS scary. It's really one of the only parts in the movie where the Joker seems to lose his cool, which I thought was interesting--of all the people in the movie who can drive the Joker to actually get angry, it's Brian Douglass. I think that's really interesting.

What shocked me the most was the judge: Nancy Surillo.
How did 42 know she would win the election? I mean obviously they could have rigged the election results, but she was leading the exits polls I read here.
Dent was obviously going to win, and I can 42 banking on all of us to vote for Garcia. But we hadn't heard anything about any of the judges.
My kudos to 42 entertainment who really know how to rig an election. This blew my mind as I walked out of the theatre.

Ok, that is awesome. I didn't even notice it. To be honest, I didn't even remember who Garcia was during the election, but when I went back and looked he was all over, so it made sense. My only guess could be that the reason I voted for her was because, since I knew nothing about any of them, I was inclined to vote for a woman because that was...all I knew about any of them (yeah, it's a bad reason to vote for someone, but I mean, how else were we gonna choose in this case?).

It was really sad to see such ambition (in deference to stupidity) from a local citizen like BriDog/Atoz, but in my opinion, the use of such a sad character to lead CFB (again, in deference to stereotypical visions of bumbling character) really lends creedence to the contrary idea of Batman, which is the people of Gotham standing up for themselves against real crime. Despite the warm fuzzies of human solidarity, I would say that if that's the best Gotham can do, well, Batman isn't going anywhere.

Delusions of Atoz let me think that the fear toxin hit more people outside of the narrows without their knowledge, and lend credibility to a third film addressing that effect.

I don't think fear toxin is the case here. I think that what you said in the first paragraph about sums it up, though, because when I look back on it and I see all the stuff they're doing in the Underground, it's absurd. I understand their problems--the fact that they want to do a neighborhood watch but find it essentially useless so long as all the cops they'd call are is definitely part of it--but they're not making it any better. They're just making it worse. And there are several of them who agree that they're doing something stupid and I give them props. Someone in CFB who suggests they carry around guns, even though Batman doesn't, because they aren't Batman at least has his head in the right place. But I think they should have realized early on that if they were going to attempt the sort of busts Batman would, they would have to have much more training. I think that is their fault. I can't really blame them for the desire to have more than one Batman, but what they're trying to do is synthetically create something that can only happen organically.

What they're not doing is standing up for themselves--what they are doing is being too ambitious. Were it about self-defense it would be smart. And it was, at first. But with the Underground they decided to tackle something that was way beyond them far too recklessly. And you know, if they wanted to get themselves killed, fine. But once they dragged Glenn into it and STILL failed to gain some perspective, that was when they became deserving of whatever fate befell them. I mean, if you think about it, Glenn was what they wanted to be. Glenn was even what Atoz LITERALLY wanted to be--he wanted to be just like Glenn, a real cop. Glenn, though nowhere near Batman in training, would still have had enough training to try pulling off stuff like that.

I think that's why we were all behind CFB at first and then once we discovered that BriDog was Atoz things changed--because we thought that Brian Douglass was a cop. And a cop DOES have that sort of training. Had the CFB underground been headed up by Glenn, things would've been different. We assumed that as someone at the GPD, Brian knew what he was doing, but everything changed when we found out he wasn't who we thought he was.

 

[FromThisGirl]

I agree. I was talking to some people about that yesterday and it WAS scary. It's really one of the only parts in the movie where the Joker seems to lose his cool, which I thought was interesting--of all the people in the movie who can drive the Joker to actually get angry, it's Brian Douglass. I think that's really interesting.

I think it might've been the fact that Brian seemed so weak in those last moments. What he was saying was sort of coming out as a last attempt at courage, but the way it was delivered seemed so feeble, and I think the Joker would be the kind of madman that would get annoyed by someone who's sitting around whimpering. Spend a few minutes with the Joker and you'll know that he's not bothered by things like fear, but I think that seeing it in others would get on his nerves, especially since Brian was a man that was trying to put on a mask of bravery with the whole vigilante stuff, but failed when he was faced with the Joker. The Joker pretty much thinks he fails at life, which is probably the main reason he killed him.

Also, can you guys imagine what it would be like to be Cecilia or Brian's wife after that video was aired on Gotham Tonight? That must really **** with your head.