Infinity War War Machine/Rhodey... Like or Don't Like?

[NealKenneth]

People weren't rooting for that because Sam and Rhodey are black, they were doing it because they figured an Avenger would die and they were hoping it was one of the B-listers. And if the filmakers had went that route, there would be nothing "regressive" about it (besides perhaps being predictable.)

Do people have to drag identity politics into everything?

 

[KevTravels]

They haven't really done enough with WM to make his death impactful. I mean sure you'd feel bad and concerned but not really tugging the heart strings IMO.

Now of course he's just a supporting character and you'd expect those types to die randomly in the film. But same as say a Maria Hill or a Coulson. Their deaths would be easily expected and not much concern after.

 

[MbJ]

A War Machine toy was included in the joke "rehearsal" video Hemsworth posted. Possibly indicates we will see him suit up again.

People weren't rooting for that because Sam and Rhodey are black, they were doing it because they figured an Avenger would die and they were hoping it was one of the B-listers. And if the filmakers had went that route, there would be nothing "regressive" about it (besides perhaps being predictable.)

In a franchise that's been pretty consistently hammered for a lack of diversity, yeah, that would've been seen as suspect. Marvel is trying to correct that issue in Phase 3 clearly by having more women and minority heroes but there was no chance in Hell they were seriously gonna kill one of the two non-white heroes they actually had up until that point. People were kidding themselves if they thought that was gonna happen.

 

[Panacea]

Rhodey is a great character who deserves to be given more prominence on the team. In the comics, he has been an Avenger for decades, so there is little justification for treating him like some sort of second-rate hero in the MCU. I am glad that Marvel didn't fall into the "can't have more than one Black character at a time" or "kill the Black guy" tropes (see Agents of SHIELD for how those work). Considering how many fans on this forum were rooting for either Rhodey or Sam to be killed off in AOU or CW, I'm quite happy that Feige and co. haven't been that regressive.

I'd say that keeping him alive simply because he's black would be the regressive move.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I like him, but it would've been better if he passed away during Civil War.

Ya, I agree.

First edit:

It's weird seeing how many people wanted another cheap death in these movies again

I'm for a death if it makes sense from a narrative standpoint. For instance, as much as I love AoU, I still disagree with killing off Quicksilver. I like that they took a risk and killed him so quickly, but I just wanted to see more of him. Plus I think it would have showed that AoU was the Avengers' finest hour had everyone survived. We know it's not A1 as they are always bickering and Coulson dies, and it's definitely not Civil War. Maybe they are saving that sort of moment for Avengers 4?

Second edit: Wow now that I wrote this post, I think I am actually starting to agree with what we got haha.

 

[Xeno]

I'd say that keeping him alive simply because he's black would be the regressive move.

In a cinematic universe dominated by white males, it makes much more sense to keep te few heroes of color alive than to fall prey to the standard tropes. Back when the question of who would die in AOU and CW was a hot topic on those forms, the vast majority of posters speculated or outright rooted for either Rhodey or Sam to die. (There were plenty of posts calling for Hawkeye's death, too.) At the time Marvel Studios had only two Black male heroes and no human females of color in any prominent role. Killing one of them would have been a major blow to Feige's stated desire to have a film universe that is as diverse as the comics. It would have been a waste of their potential as well.

And, as we saw in AOU, killing a hero just for the sake of creating a false sense of stakes fell completely flat. Whedon seems to see himself as the king of death, but Gunn showed how to come to the point of a character's demise organically, and how to build meaning and emotional impact into a sacrifice. That is something I hope we see in IW and Avengers 4.

 

[Panacea]

In a cinematic universe dominated by white males, it makes much more sense to keep te few heroes of color alive than to fall prey to the standard tropes. [...]

They're not falling prey to anything, least of all some regressive leftist political agenda, which should be the last thing that dictates creative decisions like who lives and who dies within the MCU. If you want diversity then you keep introducing more characters from different demographics, you don't just hand plot armour to minorities.

 

[MbJ]

In a cinematic universe dominated by white males, it makes much more sense to keep te few heroes of color alive than to fall prey to the standard tropes. Back when the question of who would die in AOU and CW was a hot topic on those forms, the vast majority of posters speculated or outright rooted for either Rhodey or Sam to die. (There were plenty of posts calling for Hawkeye's death, too.) At the time Marvel Studios had only two Black male heroes and no human females of color in any prominent role. Killing one of them would have been a major blow to Feige's stated desire to have a film universe that is as diverse as the comics. It would have been a waste of their potential as well.

Yup. I don't know how anyone seriously thought that was gonna happen.

 

[NealKenneth]

If a character dies and people are checking the body to see what color he is, those people are racist. I hope Marvel Studios doesn't stoop to their level.

 

[The_Manhunter]

If a character dies and people are checking the body to see what color he is, those people are racist. I hope Marvel Studios doesn't stoop to their level.

I hope we reach a day where we don't even think about the skin color of the character (or person).

 

[MbJ]

If a character dies and people are checking the body to see what color he is, those people are racist. /QUOTE]

LOL

 

[NealKenneth]

I hope we reach a day where we don't even think about the skin color of the character (or person).

Agreed

 

[Moridin]

Killing Rhodey off in CW makes no sense story-wise. Rhodey being badly injured is in sevice of Starks arc, further chipping away at his mental state (after Pepper leaves, Sokovia fallout, mounting pressure to sign the Accords, etc) and setting him up for the final (and worst) blow of seeing his parents brutally murdered.

If you kill Rhodey off at the airport then Stark is emotionally redlined for the rest of the film, you can't really escalate from there, you can't really push him over the edge with the film of his parents when he's already in freefall. The entire third act would have to play out very differently.

 

[MbJ]

Killing Rhodey off in CW makes no sense story-wise. Rhodey being badly injured is in sevice of Starks arc, further chipping away at his mental state (after Pepper leaves, Sokovia fallout, mounting pressure to sign the Accords, etc) and setting him up for the final (and worst) blow of seeing his parents brutally murdered.

If you kill Rhodey off at the airport then Stark is emotionally redlined for the rest of the film, you can't really escalate from there, you can't really push him over the edge with the film of his parents when he's already in freefall. The entire third act would have to play out very differently.

The Russos explained that as well and mentioned it biases the narrative because now there's really no way Cap's side can claim to be in the right or hold the higher ground when they've just killed a guy. It stops being two sides each having a point and one side trying to catch the side that killed one of their fellow Avengers.

But nah Rhodey needed to die so we could end racism or something.

 

[Capsfan]

It's not Steve's team, who injured Rhodey. It was Vision and the accident.

 

[MbJ]

It's not Steve's team, who injured Rhodey. It was Vision and the accident.

People didn't know that when the theory was first going out. The theory for a while (because of a misleading scene in the trailer) was that Bucky was gonna kill Rhodey.

And if they were seriously gonna kill him they probably would have gone for something more dramatic than an accident.

 

[Panacea]

Killing Rhodey off in CW makes no sense story-wise. Rhodey being badly injured is in sevice of Starks arc, further chipping away at his mental state (after Pepper leaves, Sokovia fallout, mounting pressure to sign the Accords, etc) and setting him up for the final (and worst) blow of seeing his parents brutally murdered.

If you kill Rhodey off at the airport then Stark is emotionally redlined for the rest of the film, you can't really escalate from there, you can't really push him over the edge with the film of his parents when he's already in freefall. The entire third act would have to play out very differently.

I would say that killing Rhodey off would make Tony's actions make more sense later on. He's not a moron, he knows that it wasn't Bucky's fault, the more emotionally distraught he is at the end the better.

 

[MbJ]

No, it really doesn't work. If the fight results in Tony's best friend being killed there's no attempted reconciliation, which was a major part of Zemo's plan.

Plus, again, it removes any real pretext of both sides being fair and valid when the other side now has a body count or can be seen as responsible for a hero's death.

 

[Panacea]

No, it really doesn't work. If the fight results in Tony's best friend being killed there's no attempted reconciliation, which was a major part of Zemo's plan.

Well no, the only thing Zemo needed was for Tony to be lured to where the other super soldiers were. It was written with a small reconciliation beforehand but it wasn't integral to the plot at all.

Plus, again, it removes any real pretext of both sides being fair and valid when the other side now has a body count or can be seen as responsible for a hero's death.

It does no such thing. Vision missing his shot has nothing to do with Team Cap.

 

[MbJ]

If Tony shows up there already raring to kill Bucky because of Rhodey then there's no need for Zemo's video presentation, which he literally had a whole subplot about trying to set up.

It does no such thing. Vision missing his shot has nothing to do with Team Cap.

Yes it does. They're there because of Cap and Bucky going on the run. The situation escalated to that point because he refused to stand down and abide by the Accords by not interfering. If Rhodey dies in pursuit of Cap and Bucky Tony is gonna blame them and it makes them look less sympathetic. There is a reason the creative team didn't kill anyone at the airport fight.

 

[NealKenneth]

He's not a moron, he knows that it wasn't Bucky's fault

Does he?

The only reason Cap thinks Bucky is innocent is that he knew Bucky before he was Winter Soldier. Tony did not. For all Tony knows, Bucky became a traitor and is playing Rogers.

 

[KevTravels]

I hope we reach a day where we don't even think about the skin color of the character (or person).

it's not as if some of us have not hoped for this. I believe a man named Dr. King was asking for this 60 years.

Personally I'm glad to see MCU being very diverse. Especially as they are selling them worldwide. It's not the 40's anymore.

 

[Steamteck]

Does he?

The only reason Cap thinks Bucky is innocent is that he knew Bucky before he was Winter Soldier. Tony did not. For all Tony knows, Bucky became a traitor and is playing Rogers.

He knew he was mind controlled. He even Joked about it and called him Manchurian candidate.

 

[KevTravels]

Killing Rhodey off in CW makes no sense story-wise. Rhodey being badly injured is in sevice of Starks arc, further chipping away at his mental state (after Pepper leaves, Sokovia fallout, mounting pressure to sign the Accords, etc) and setting him up for the final (and worst) blow of seeing his parents brutally murdered.

If you kill Rhodey off at the airport then Stark is emotionally redlined for the rest of the film, you can't really escalate from there, you can't really push him over the edge with the film of his parents when he's already in freefall. The entire third act would have to play out very differently.

You make a great point. He was the only person most likely to be injured/killed. It actually gave him something of a story arc from now on.

anyone know many films Cheadle is signed on for?

 

[NealKenneth]

He knew he was mind controlled. He even Joked about it and called him Manchurian candidate.

His belief in Bucky is entirely dependent on his faith in Rogers. When Tony found out Rogers was lying about something so important as his parents' death, that would completely shatter his trust in Rogers, and subsequently his story about Bucky. I mean, Tony already knows Rogers will hide extremely important information to protect Bucky so how does he really know Rogers is telling the truth about the mind control?

Tony's parents already died. Adding a third body to the pile does little to change the final confrontation.