wild child
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Yes
I believe
I believe
People say Cap is the best hand to hand fighter in the MCU and that's why he could handle Iron Man. Well no, Thor would be the best hand to hand fighter in the MCU as he has a lot more years experience doing it than Cap has.
Where has it ever been shown that Thor is particularly skilled in hand to hand? Aside from Mjolnir, his main asset is his enormous strength and brute force which overpowers his enemies. He's a great warrior but he's not particularly agile or quick, he doesn't have a lot of complex moves and he is certainly not the tactical genius that Steve is. Also let's recall that many complained Thor was nerfed in that fight to make IM look better.
Steve was able to damage a quinjet with his shield in TWS and he was able to damage Ultron so he does have the strength to damage the suit. And the shield is certainly able to deflect blows or pulsor shots from Iron Man and we've seen it before.
The suit was damaged pre final fight - as was his body - when Wanda and Clint dropped all those cars on him and then Scott messed around with his circuitry. His suit isn't shrugging off one or two blows or even half a dozen but repeated blows which are also buffeting around the man inside and in the end the only thing that disables it is still Steve destroying the arc reactor.
Considering the confines of the fight area Tony also couldn't blast off at full force or even near when he tried to take flight like he could outside vs Thor. Steve disabling his thruster is quite believable.
As for hand to hand fighting, in the suit since when? The suit is not agile like the human body. Even out of the suit while he's capable fighter but he wouldn't be able to beat Hawkeye let alone come near Steve's skill.
Tony again was not trying to kill Steve (at least at first), he was trying to get past him to Bucky and in the words of the director commentary tear Bucky apart close up and personal. He didn't want a quick death for Bucky.
Tony didn't defeat the Mandarin after Pepper died, Pepper did when she un-died.
Tony fighting hand to hand many times in the MCU doesn't make him a good fighter. That's why Cap had him against the wall beating the **** out of him. Even when he "supposedly fights hand to hand", it's not even comparable to when Steve fights. Tony relies on his repulsors and weapons a lot more than he does Hand to to hand.
Thor has been fighting hand to hand for hundreds if not thousands of years, you telling me he hasn't had plenty of practice in that time?
Just because it could still perform some takes does not mean its in full working order or that the suit's metal platting is at full integrity. We also saw that Tony sustains damage when in his suit. He had multiple contusions on top of his already damaged arm when the car park fell on him.Damaging the suit with the shield I didn't have that much of a problem with, though I still think Steve isn't strong enough to put the shield straight into the chest plate. Which has taken Tank shells and Mjolnir full on in the past. As well as breaking a wing off a jet.
The suit was damaged in the previous fight yes, but looked in full working order in the finale. Hence IM being able to shoot repulsor Rays from it again, and being able to tear open a huge metal door. He could also fly fine, his suit showed no ill effects so quite easily could have been repaired in the meantime.
He's not going to be able to fly with any speed or power lest he also smash himself into the wall. The limitations of the space hurt his mobility and ability to use flight with significant power.Yes they were in a short space, IM was still quick enough to grab Bucky and fly him against the wall though. Steve disabling the thruster I didn't have a problem with, but Steve catching IM mid flight with one and being able to hold him there? That is just not believable to me.
IM has fought Thor, Whiplash (twice), War Machine, and Extrmemis soldiers as well as The Mandarin hand to hand in the suit. Throw Hulk and Ultron in as well. So, in answer to your question, he has fought hand to hand in the suit plenty of times, throw in a few more from this movie also.
Tony did defeat The Mandarin after Pepper died, Pepper just finished him off when he was healing. He could barely even walk at the time.
Not that I recall, I was mostly just trying to keep it brief (I failed) and not do the entire multi quote thing. t:Just curious though, the points you didn't refute, did you agree with them?
True, but Tony not lifting a finger when Cap had him against the wall doesn't make any sense. All I was saying is it's not like Tony has never been in a fight, why wasn't he fighting back?
We haven't seen any evidence of it in the movies and he's never had to rely on those kind of skill sets because of his strength. He fights like a Viking Beserker which is very fitting for the kind of warrior he is. It's like asking why doesn't the Hulk learn Tae Kwon Do - why would he?
Just because it could still perform some takes does not mean its in full working order or that the suit's metal platting is at full integrity. We also saw that Tony sustains damage when in his suit. He had multiple contusions on top of his already damaged arm when the car park fell on him.
He had no time to repair it from the events of the airport and showing up at the end. The suit wasn't received a few blows but a flurry of them in that last fight and inside Tony was taking on more damage.. We saw Steve throw and then drive the shield into a quinjet and damage it, we've also seen him rip the top off of tanks and submarines and lift a muti ton beam off of Bucky. Even so the suit was only defeated when Steve was able to disable the arc reactor.
He's not going to be able to fly with any speed or power lest he also smash himself into the wall. The limitations of the space hurt his mobility and ability to use flight with significant power.
That is not any high level skill of hand to hand. Those fights are mostly dependent on the strength of the suit and except for Killian he's also fighting against strength more than skill
Yes Tony could barely walk so if Mandarin had time to heal he would have been toast without Pepper.
Not that I recall, I was mostly just trying to keep it brief (I failed) and not do the entire multi quote thing. t:
Ever watch a boxing match? Steve was giving him no chance to fight back. I was actually surprised how fast Steve was pummeling Tony. It just showed how much of a skilled fighter Steve is. That's why FRIDAY told him he couldn't beat Steve hand to hand.
Well that's another gripe, cars damaged the armour but Mjolnir couldn't?
Not at all. In the comics he yanked a helicopter out of the sky with a rope. He can bench press 1100 pounds and carry on a casual conversation.
People are simply ignoring his amazing feats of strength in the comics.
who said it is the same suit?Thor's skill set is not Steve's sill set. They just aren't comparable. There is no sign of the dexterity, innovation and quickness that Steve shows in a multitude of fight scenes. Again, why should there be? Thor has other strengths and advantages Steve doesn't.
Tony's not an amateur but he's fighting against someone who is the best of the best. The skill levels are just not comparable when it comes hand to hand even if the suit is not the ideal attire for hand to hand.
Tony isn't flying that quickly, if he was he'd have exploded out of that bunker and into and through the roof. He might be going as fast as a car - that Steve is capable of chasing down. Steve can run at 60mph and possesses excellent reflexes.
Tony took Rhodey to the hospital while the others were rounded up and taken to the Raft. Then Tony had to go to the Raft to talk to Sam and then he left. Meanwhile Steve and Bucky are just arriving at the Bunker via Quinjet. The question is how he gets there so quickly and has time to even do that and not why he also doesn't have time to fix his suit.
Sure it did. When Thor lights Tony up there's a sizeable break in IM's armor in the exact location where Uru earlier met titanium alloy. It's awfully hard to miss.
Sure it did. When Thor lights Tony up there's a sizeable break in IM's armor in the exact location where Uru earlier met titanium alloy. It's awfully hard to miss.
Being fair, Thor comes off, to me, as highly skilled. Its just that his fighting style gives much more emphasis to striking single decisive blows, and parrying/avoiding the same while ignoring the rest. Thor reasonably expects that, against almost all foes he fights, one good blow is enough, so rather than dilly dallying with lots of rapid light attacks, just go for that one blow, only stopping to block if there's an attack he can't just shrug off.
Note, by contrast, how much dodging, attacking, and parring there is when he fights Loki, an opponent who can both largely match him, and where he *doesn't* want to make single decisive strikes.
This might be the nittiest of nitpicks. I truly don't see how this could bother anyone that much.
I know the crack is there, it's from when Thor shoots Tony with lightning and it's on the chest plate, but I am talking at the end of the fight when Cap intervenes, Tony's armour takes a full on physical hit from Mjolnir and has no damage after it or the explosion after. But Steve can damage it with a metal shield and his bare hands? Not for me.
Exactly, you don't fight for thousands of years without having some significant skill. He is a prince of a warrior race of Gods. Thor also did a lot more dodging against Hulk than other enemy's. He adapts his style when there is someone he can't beat with just physical prowess. That shows how much skill he has.
I mean you don't see anyone complaining Batman being able to survive being thrown through walls and walking away unscathed to battle a room full of guys with no injuries. Kryptonite or not, even with a suit of armour. The BvS fight shouldn't have lasted that long.
I had no problem with the 3 way fight. Sure IM was slightly under powered But they gave me enough reason to believe that two super soldiers can take on IM. They did a great job of setting it up. Especially Cap through out the MCU. If it was just after TFA, I would have called bs on the fight. But after TWS and AoU? Yeah I believe Cap can take on Stark. Even then, Cap and Bucky were down and IM was still standing towards the end of the fight.
This never happened. Any damage Steve did to the armour was with the use of his shield. You know, the strongest metal in the MCU.