Watchmen: Great Graphic Novel or Greatest Graphic Novel?

A GREAT Graphic Novel.

Dark Knight Return is the GREATEST GRAPHIC NOVEL.....Evah!

I don't think it is at all. I love Batman in things like New Frontier and can't stand him when he's acting completely ridiculous but the storyteller is glorifying everything he does while other characters are dumbed down, made weaker, or sacrificed in order to make Batman look better. One thing about Batman in DKR is that he's not really a hero OR a villain, he's right in the middle. He's sadistic, manipulative, and doesn't give a crap about respect for anybody or anybody else's rights. He has a little girl with no training working with him. He's sick. It's not that the graphic novel is amazing... it's that the audience LOVES grit, and the book has tons of that.
 
Just got this today, actually. Those character pictures released reminded me of this movie and so I got the GN, and so far (I've read up to issue 3) I really like it.
 
greatest in my opinion.

the art in dkr is horrible btw; i really dislike it.
 
I was in Borders today and I picked up Watchman to read to kill some time. I have to say I'v been thinking about it all day. Im a fan now
 
The greatest. WATCHMEN has layer upon layer of meaning, in both visual and literary terms, and a level of sophistication to it's dialogue and writing that you simply don't see in most graphic novels, or for that matter, literature.
 
No way. Preacher is great fun, and it definitely captures a tone, but in terms of how it was crafted it doesn't hold a candle to Watchmen. Sandman's narrative is meticukously crafted, but it doesn't use the visual communicative strength of the medium nearly as well as Watchmen does. There aren't as many comics that really utilize the medium the way Watchmen does, but they do exist and I'd say there are a very select few that are better. Most of Chris Ware's work gives Watchmen a run for its money and I'd argue that Jimmy Corrigan edges over it. Will Elder and Harvey Kurtzman were doing this kind of stuff way back in the day when EC was still around; and then of course there's Eisner's works, especially in his later years.
 
what Eisner stuff are you referring to Sandman? I've wanted to read something by him but I didn't really get into the Spirit
 
noted. thanks


It' not a bad list, not the best, but not the worst.

I remember last year some complained that some notable stuff by Moore, Gaimen, Morrison, Bendis, and Miller was missing... but they already take up 1/3 of the list. I have read the bold typed ones.

#100 Batman: Faces
#99 The Red Star Vol. #1
#98 Batman & Dracula: Red Rain
#97 Spiderman vs. Venom
#96 The Complete Concrete
#95 X-Men: From the Ashes
#94 Batman: Haunted Knight
#93 Sock Monkey
#92 Cerebus Vol. #2: High Society
#91 Wolverine: Blood Debt
#90 American Flagg Vol. #1: Hard Times
#89 Batman: Arkham Asylum
#88 Hulk: Ground Zero
#87 Ultimate X-Men Vol. #1: The Tomorrow People
#86 Batman: Dark Victory
#85 Nightwing Vol. #4: A Darker Shade of Justice
#84 The Coffin
#83 Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood
#82 Green Lantern: Emerald Dawn
#81 Obergeist: Director's Cut
#80 Crisis On Infinite Earths
#79 Avengers: Ultron Unlimited
#78 JLA: Earth 2
#77 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Collected Book Vol. #1
#76 Batman: The Long Halloween
#75 Doom Patrol: Crawling from the Wreckage
#74 Whiteout
#73 Punisher: Circle of Blood
#72 Powers Vol. #1: Who Killed Retro Girl
#71 Goldfish
#70 Fortune and Glory
#69 Wolverine by Claremont and Miller
#68 Captain America: War and Rememberance
#67 Daredevil: The Man Without Fear
#66 Avengers: Under Siege
#65 Silver Surfer: The Rebirth of Thanos
#64 X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills
#63 Jinx
#62 X-Force: A New Beginning
#61 Justice League: A New Beginning
#60 Infinity Gauntlet
#59 Earth X
#58 JLA: A New World Order
#57 Dr. Strange/Dr.Doom: Triumph and Torment
#56 Legion of Super Heroes: The Great Darkness Saga
#55 Strangers in Paradise Vol. #2: I Dream of You.
#54 Animal Man Vol. #1
#53 Hellblazer: Dangerous Habits
#52 Box Office Poison
#51 The Authority Vol. #2: Under New Management
#50 Iron Man: The Power of Iron Man
#49 Stormwatch Vol. #4: A Finer World
#48 Hellboy: The Chained Coffin and Others
#47 Walt Simonson Thor Visionaires
#46 Hellblazer: Hard Time
#45 New X-Men E is for Extinction
#44 Usagi Yojimbo Vol. #6: Circles
#43 Fantastic Four Visionairies
#42 100 Bullets Vol. #3: Hang Up on the Hang Low
#41 Akira Vol. #1
#40 Kingdom Come
#39 Banner
#38 Neil Gaiman's Midnight Days
#37 Planetary: The Fourth Man
#36 Sin City: A Dame to Kill For
#35 Pedro and Me
#34 300 HC
#33 League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
#32 Bone Vol. #2: Great Cow Race
#31 Torso
#30 Astro City: Confession
#29 Daredevil Yellow
#28 Spider-Man: Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaught
#27 Sin City: That Yellow Bastard
#26 Solar Man of the Atom: Alpha & Omega
#25 Fantastic Four: Trial of Galactus
#24 Death: The High Cost of Living
#23 Superman: For All Seasons
#22 Squadron Supreme
#21 Books of Magic
#20 Preacher Vol. #3: Proud Americans
#19 Hawkworld
#18 Frank Miller Daredevil Visionairies Vol. #2
#17 Magnus Robot Fighter: Steel Nation
#16 Top Ten Vol. #1
#15 New Teen Titans: Judas Contract
#14 Miracleman Vol. #3
#13 Swampt Thing: Saga of the Swamp Thing
#12 X-Men: Days of Future Past
#11 JSA Golden Age
#10 X-Men: Dark Phoenix Saga
#9 Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
#8 Marvels
#7 Daredevil: Born Again
#6 Batman: Year One
#5 Ultimate Spider-Man Vol. #1
#4 Sandman Vol. #4: Season of the Mist
#3 Batman: Dark Knight Returns
#2 Watchmen[/B]
#1 Maus: A Survivor's Tale

this is from Wizard? what kind of list is it supposed to be? its weird
 
I dont think its the greatest one wver written. (I still havent found one that I consider the greatest yet.) However I do consider it to be an absolute must-read for anyone with even the slightest interest in comics or graphic novels.
 
Not the be all end all... but one of the greastest.
 
what Eisner stuff are you referring to Sandman? I've wanted to read something by him but I didn't really get into the Spirit

I would say New York: The Big City and City People Notebook are the best examples of the phenomenon.
 
I don't think it is at all. I love Batman in things like New Frontier and can't stand him when he's acting completely ridiculous but the storyteller is glorifying everything he does while other characters are dumbed down, made weaker, or sacrificed in order to make Batman look better. One thing about Batman in DKR is that he's not really a hero OR a villain, he's right in the middle. He's sadistic, manipulative, and doesn't give a crap about respect for anybody or anybody else's rights. He has a little girl with no training working with him. He's sick. It's not that the graphic novel is amazing... it's that the audience LOVES grit, and the book has tons of that.

Yeah, and nobody ever did that with Batman before. That was one of the reasons it was so groundbreaking.

When I first read it some, four years ago, I was completely stunned by it's darkness and also it's phenomenal visual structure. I picked it out because I'd heard it was good, but I was very much blown away by how good it actually was. Not to mention I first read some crappy Dutch translation. Imagine the joy when I re-discovered it a while later! In English! :D
 
I know i'm going to get hammered for this, but I finally read watchmen and I was pretty disappoionted by it. It was very long, boring and too slow....I dont know what all the fuss is about, I barely was able to finish it because i didnt like it at all. I think this is very overrated...What is so good about it?
 
I know i'm going to get hammered for this, but I finally read watchmen and I was pretty disappoionted by it. It was very long, boring and too slow....I dont know what all the fuss is about, I barely was able to finish it because i didnt like it at all. I think this is very overrated...What is so good about it?
im not gonna go all fanboy all over you, but what exactly were you expecting? its not exactly your typical "comic book". not a lot of slam/bang action. a lot more cerebral and subtle. also, and i dont mean this to sound condescending, but how old are you? i ask 'cause i just turned 19 this year and it kinda hit me at the right time, if i had read this 5 years ago im not sure it could have kept my attention either, y'dig? :o
 
I'm not a huge consumer of graphic novels or comic books, so my opinion immediately matters less. However, I feel that Watchmen is definitely a highly enjoyable, literary graphic novel. Its themes are lofty and well-expressed, and the psychosexual portrayal of its characters is really quite intriguing.

Nonetheless, as far as a wonderfully developed story goes, I'd have to hand that to Identity Crisis. The mystery plot is kind of simple, but it has enough twists and turns to keep it interesting. More importantly, I felt that the characters were far more dynamic in this story than the cast of Watchmen, and there was a great deal of emotional tension and plot/character development in Identity Crisis, versus Watchmen's (intentionally) more stereotypical presentation of superhero archetypes, with an overall lack of genuine character development, aside from Nite Owl.

Plus, Watchmen, as great as it is, sometimes gets lost in the lofty sci-fi tones and themes that it tries to carry through to the end--the disappearance of the artists and intelligentsia, for instance, was underdeveloped, and while their elimination fit in with Ozymandius' master scheme, it felt a little bit...too neat, like Moore was trying to cut off loose ends that he had intended to do more with initially but never got around to finishing.

Identity Crisis is a far quieter character piece, and everything felt much more organic and real because of this.

I'm not saying that Identity Crisis is the greatest graphic novel ever. I'm merely saying that I don't think that the title should go to Watchmen, either.
 
im not gonna go all fanboy all over you, but what exactly were you expecting? its not exactly your typical "comic book". not a lot of slam/bang action. a lot more cerebral and subtle. also, and i dont mean this to sound condescending, but how old are you? i ask 'cause i just turned 19 this year and it kinda hit me at the right time, if i had read this 5 years ago im not sure it could have kept my attention either, y'dig? :o

i dig....i was expecting an entertaining book worth all the praise it was getting, and i just feel let down because i think it didnt live up to all the standards. IMO it wasnt that good....i'm 21 and ive been reading comics and graphic novels for about 10 years...i'm into the crime genre so i like Batman and Criminal by ed brubaker and stuff like that. I'm not really into the slam/bang action either...and im not some young kid who cant read long stories either, i read from hell and i loved it and that thing was like 400 pages....i like a good mystery with a good plot and good character development... and even tho this was kind of a mystery it was still boring and i couldnt get into it....
 
I havent read many graphic novels in my day but so far I think its a great story period. Im on chapter 6 and its a joy to read.

quick question (possible spoilers for those of you who have not read up to chapter 6)















****Is it necessary to read the comic book segments that the little boy is reading in the street? Ive been skipping some of the segments just to see what happens next to the main characters. Is there any important info contained in those segments?****
 
No important information, but it adds to the collective themes of the novel.
 
The scenes on the street are of monumental importance. I would go so far as to say they are the most important scenes in the book.
 

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