World Web shooter shop class - Part 1

[White_widow]

Thanks oh and I have a general question Does anybody imagine how to avoid de web shooter to shoot when you close your hands???

That really depends on the trigger. If you decide to use a switch/button, you can program it with a chip or add a case on the button. If you decide to go more with the lever route, then it's as simple as putting it high on your palm, near the meaty part that connects to the thumb.

 

[Ryleyw]

Thanks oh and I have a general question Does anybody imagine how to avoid de web shooter to shoot when you close your hands???

That's exactly what I was afraid of!!! But Im just gonna try to make it where I don't hit the buttons

 

[Ryleyw]

Can anyone help me with the shooter? And formula? Please

 

[ng.samuel]

Hello, I'm new to this (in fact I made this account just to join these threads). In answer to Ryleyw, could it be possible that instead of a button, it could be a device that only shoots when pulled away from the cuff? This means that you have to press it down and then extend your wrist back.

 

[ng.samuel]

Btw, how developed is this shooter? If it isn't too much trouble, can someone run me over the ideas that you guys have had and give me the advantages and disadvantages?

 

[White_widow]

Sup Sammie. ( I apologize, but I'm a big fan of nicknames) I guess it depends on what you mean, but I'll get to that in a second.

After firing the test round, extruding some fluid from bottles, (and soon going to put it in an atomizer) I've noticed one problem with how quickly the web fluid hardens, and I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas. the web fluid will dry fast, in fact too fast. It creates a skin of polymer, but the inside remains liquid. Does anyone know how to combat that problem? I got one idea from symbioteshost that suggested that I add a lot more acetone and make the spinnerets smaller. Just some food for thought.

As for Samuel, we have a website where all of the current progress is being recorded. It is incomplete, as we couldn't get Leren, the person who inspired me on this project, or Frank Mckeever in this site.

http://realwebtech.webs.com/

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a web shooter that doesn't fire farther than a couple feet when it does fire. I have a clogging problem, but other than that, and the above mentioned hardening issue, I've created a stronger version of silly string that only bonds to porous materials.

The next step is to make it come in a constant string. It comes in globs as it clogs.

In my case, I don't want web lines, but I want webs that splatter because I'm a bigger fan of spiderman noir. For you guys though, you might want to find a way to fix it.

I'm probably going to make a tutorial soon.

 

[White_widow]

good news and bad news.

Good news: I have a second helium valve, so I can start working on the second prototype.

Bad news: My pressure vessel was so messed up by the elastyrene that the pump won't work. That suggests that the schrader valve was a good idea.

 

[White_widow]

So after looking at a couple species of arachnid for inspiration, I have two that really capture the essence of what the web shooter is supposed to do.

1.) The spitting spider ejects many strands of fluid at high speed and pressure. Accuracy is not an issue, because there are so many strands making so many contact points.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqb30-YjYoY

2.) the bola spider creates a glob of fluid at the end of a line that bursts when it comes into contact with the prey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TW6p4Sufhc

We need a combination of these two methods so that you guys can get what you want out of this. Or maybe they are two sides to the same coin? Different methods to get the web fluid to stick to surfaces. One by maximizing surface area, or one that bursts.

Whatever the case, cohesion is the big issue.

 

[nolder]

I'm seeing the mmovie at midnight tonight! maybe seeing it will help me with building my webshooter

 

[Wadaltmon]

I'm seeing the mmovie at midnight tonight! maybe seeing it will help me with building my webshooter

I am seeing it at midnight as well! It will be awesome! However, my running fear is that really no insight onto the shooters will be present, like in the older Spidey movies when it just showed a montage or fast-forwarded through costume building and all that.

 

[nolder]

I am seeing it at midnight as well! It will be awesome! However, my running fear is that really no insight onto the shooters will be present, like in the older Spidey movies when it just showed a montage or fast-forwarded through costume building and all that.

Meh. I know theres that scene in his basement where he builds it. I don't expect to learn a lot or get a stroke of inspiration. There is a ridiculous amount of webbing made from something smaller than a cellphone.

 

[White_widow]

I'm getting a lot of insight from watching the spitting spider. Consider that their webbing comes from a gland in their bodies. When they spit, they send a stream of fluid at their prey. It didn't make sense, as their webbing seemed to be the actual size of the spider, but it occurs to me that they are so many little strands with lots of space in between. It doesn't look like it though, because the strands cover such a wide background. That's why just a few glue sticks can produce so many cobwebs in a gun like that.

Less can be more, but only if the strands are super strong, and there are lots of spaces.

EDIT: 1000th post!

 

[nolder]

I just thought of something. for any web shooter that will be anything like the amazing model (will have a strand you can grab), we will probably need a glob at the end like the bola spider's web. that way we don't necessarily need to make a stickier formula because when the glob hits it's target, it will explode like a water balloon, creating greater surface area for the adhesive. This glob will be hard to make in a web shooter because most valves would smooth the glob into the rest of the web line.

Then theres the clogging problem that we have yet to resolve which would probably just get worse with glob creating tubing. The way I imagined it, there would be tubing (containing webfluid) leading to a valve, and right before the valve the tubing would expand. Think of it as a cartoon garden hose that gets bent, and right before the bend it expands. It would be that shaped, but rigid, so it wont expand and explode.

WW: would a spinnerete be able to create "the glob"?

 

[MarvelFan1]

Because the maximus is the shooter, I got to work, I'm going to scrap minimus. Here are the prototype names for anything new.

noir shooter- based off of spiderman noir, these shooters are meant to splatter, not create webs.

Amazing shooters- make a strong polymer thread.

Weaver shooters- makes a net.

tech shooters- any like the web or wadaltmon's type shooters.

These are characterized by their spinnerets. Noir only has an opening. Amazing is the one I just posted a video about. weavers are the shooters that have to strands that wrap around the others. Tech shooters are the only ones that stand out as they use solenoid valves.

I'm working on the noir right now.

The estimated cost for a pair is:

polymorph (6 oz): 10$
helium valves(x2): 10$
straps: varies. 10-30$
parts from home depot: 20$

Total estimated cost: 50$ for a pair and a gallon tank (if you forget about shipping.)

I like that idea, I might either do a amazing or noir shooter. I have a question on the minimus even though your not using it. How did you get the aerosol valve button to shoot at the top, because I know that most shoot out on the side. I might use that for a noir shooter. O and for clogging in the nozzle, I would use a cartridge, fill it with water, pressurize it, and put it in the shooter, that way the water will get the pieces of fluid out this shooter and will exit the nozzle. I'm just spit ballin'.

 

[ng.samuel]

Hello again,
Thanks for the reply, White_widow. I have read through the link that you showed me, and I have attached a very simple design of how I think the shooter works. I think that this is correct, but if not, please tell me. Obviously, the design has to be modified work with the specific needs of the web fluid, and many other components are missing, but I think this is the general idea of how this works?
Thanks again,
Sam

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/img120703120614001.jpg/

 

[nolder]

Hello again,
Thanks for the reply, White_widow. I have read through the link that you showed me, and I have attached a very simple design of how I think the shooter works. I think that this is correct, but if not, please tell me. Obviously, the design has to be modified work with the specific needs of the web fluid, and many other components are missing, but I think this is the general idea of how this works?
Thanks again,
Sam

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/img120703120614001.jpg/

I like the idea of using the whole forearm for the webshooter. alot of designs I've seen have only been using the inner forearm which I feel it limiting and maybe a tad unrealistic for some purposes. I also like the idea of a spring in the trigger mechanism.

I do see a problem though. which I'm afraid I wont be very clear in explaining it but I will give it my best shot. The problem if you are trying to make your own valve. In the middle of the picture you have tubing which goes in the hole.

• If the tubing is pressing too hard against the metal next to the hole (the area where the tubing would rest if the trigger is not being held down), the tubing connected to your pressure vessel may drag and tilt, causing you to lose your pressure.
• If the tubing is not pressing hard enough, there will probably not be a tight seal between your pressure vessel tubing and the tubing that leads to the spinneret, which will probably cause you to lose alot of pressure
• And finally, if the tubing is pressing perfectly against the area next to the hole (no drag and tilt of the tubing orifice when pulling the trigger and tight seal between the pieces of tubing), There will almost certainly be tilting of the tubing orifice when releasing the trigger because when the trigger is released, the hole will move back in place, but it will push the tubing causing the tubing to drag and tilt as it returns to it's position. This will cause you to lose pressure

All of this can be avoided if you instead use a store bought valve. We've looked into it and helium or small solenoid valves may be the way to go.

 

[ng.samuel]

Right, thanks. I think that a helium valve would better suite our ideas because it eliminates the need for a power source. This being said, all of the designs of Peter Parker's web shooter use solenoid valves. Btw, I knew that the valve that I drew wouldn't be realistic(because of pressure problems, clogging problems, etc.), but I was just using that design to show the general idea of the contraption.
Thanks for taking the time to correct me though.
Sam

 

[ng.samuel]

Can we open up a thread on the practicalities of the shooter once it is completed? To discuss whether it could be used safely, the extent of swinging that one would be able to do(limited in my opinion), etc.

 

[Tyseg1cia]

just saw the amazing spider man ! muahahah midnight showing AND he didnt actually make the webbing by the way oscorp made it and he took they're stuff and turned it into a web shooter. only thing that made me mad was that he never reloaded its like 1 chamber lasted the intire movie

 

[ng.samuel]

I think that it's assumed that he reloads when he is "suiting up."

 

[spider 2099]

Hey guys I have finished my light up web shooter NOT the webbing one this is only for the movie premiere

 

[MarvelFan1]

Well, acetone will eat that, but ok.

Anyway, the cartridge design is based on a potato gun/ t-shirt cannon. The cartridges can be big, small, or whatever the parker's preference. For a reference on how to do this:

Build Process

High Pressure Air Chamber


Make no mistake, this is the MOST DANGEROUS PART OF YOUR GUN (to you). Take your time, and make sure that EVERYTHING seems 100% right, if something seems "off" scrap it and build another one. The parts are cheap, your arms, legs, and everything in-between are not. Make sure you read through (and understand) this entire section BEFORE you start.
Now, before we start. Forget everything you were taught in 2nd grade about gluing. Gluing these parts is going to get messy, put down some news paper or drop cloths before you start. The general process of gluing PVC is such: Primer both components (ex. Outside diam of pipe, inside diam of fitting), apply PVC glue to both components (on top of primer), Insert FULLY and give 1/4 twist & hold for 30 seconds. Ok, read this next sentence like four or five times, it will save you headaches down the line:
USE TONS OF PRIMER, and 2x TONS of GLUE. (Seriously glob that glue on there, both sides. You want to make sure you have a good seal)
Start by using your hacksaw to cut a 10" length of 3" [COLOR=white !important][COLOR=white !important]PVC [COLOR=white !important]Pipe[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], you may need to use a utility knife to clean the edges of any stray PVC. Primer & glue the 3" end cap on one side, and the 3" coupler on the other.

After a few minutes, Primer & Glue the 3" x 2" (non threaded) bushing into the 3" Coupler. Once give it a few minutes to cure.
As PVC is unforgiving when it explodes, it is VERY IMPORTANT that we don't over pressurize our air chamber, we can accomplish this by using a a safety valve. The 115 PSI Safety valve will open once the internal pressure hits 115PSI allowing excess pressure to escape. This ensures that the air chamber doesn't become over pressurized and explode. Do not skip this part!!!

The Schrader valve is used to charge our air chamber with either an air compressor or a standard bike pump. Even though later we will discuss charging it via CO2, it is nice to have a secondary means. As you can see below, I chose to mount my Safety release valve on the rear of chamber, and the Schrader valve on the side. I would recommend mounting both on the side, as it is structurally stronger mounting into double layers of PVC. (One layer creates a potential stress point) Just make sure that neither would be pointing at you should they "blow off" and that both are easily accessible.
Decide (and mark) your desired locations for both the Schrader & [COLOR=white !important][COLOR=white !important]Safety [COLOR=white !important]Valves[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]. Before you actually drill and mount these parts, You might want to take a couple practice drills into one end of your UNUSED left over 3" PVC pipe, you have plenty. Remember, practice makes perfect.

Using a 1/2" drill bit (in a drill press if possible) SLOWLY drill the hole for the Safety valve, ensuring you stay level while you drill. Switch to your 3/8" Drill bit and SLOWLY drill for the Schrader valve. Hand thread both in, then use a wrench slowly snug them down, making sure not to strip the self "tapped" PVC.


Drill a 3/8" hole directly in the middle of top of the 1" Plug & set aside. Using your hacksaw to cut a 3" length of 2" PVC Pipe, you may need to use a utility knife to clean the edges of any stray PVC. Primer/Glue the 2" x 1" Bushing (non threaded) into the bottom of the 2" Tee, then the 3"x2" PVC pipe into one side of the 2" Tee, the 1" plug into the 2" x 1" (non threaded) bushing, and finally the 2" x 1" (threaded) into the remaining side on the Tee.


Source:http://www.i-hacked.com/content/view/283/48

Modify the design based on your preferences. I suggest you use two end caps and forego the pressure relief valve as you will be making one.

Now you've made your cartridge, filled it with fluid, and pressurized it.



and for a solvent resistant one:

http://www.amazon.com/AES-Industrie...49954&sr=1-1&keywords=aluminum+reusable+spray


and for a cheap solvent resistant one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1RBuoK4FLA

the third one.

I have an idea for a PVC cartridge that is solvent resistant. It's covering the inside in duct tape. I don't know if this could work, but I'm just given ideas.

 

[nolder]

Right, thanks. I think that a helium valve would better suite our ideas because it eliminates the need for a power source. This being said, all of the designs of Peter Parker's web shooter use solenoid valves. Btw, I knew that the valve that I drew wouldn't be realistic(because of pressure problems, clogging problems, etc.), but I was just using that design to show the general idea of the contraption.
Thanks for taking the time to correct me though.
Sam

Let me know If I was over critical. If I was, I apologize. And your design was good.

Swinging will be a hard thing to figure out. There are so many factors working against it including strength of the web, surface area the end covers, drying time, and moisture that tends to build up on higher levels of buildings. I've worked with some pretty strong glues and epoxies (which take FOREVER to dry) and while they are strong, I doubt they'd be able to hold someones weight (much less someones weight when swinging) if they were made into a strand or rope.

Maybe it could happen though. I've been thinking of the glob that the spitting spider makes at the end of it's web. when it comes in contact it with its target it splatters and creates a greater surface area for the web to hold on too. but a glob big enough to hold human weight would be ridiculously big (probably somewhere between the size of a baseball and a basketball). even with that, we'd need a very strong and quick drying adhesive that I don't think we have or are close to making.

 

[Tyseg1cia]

I think that it's assumed that he reloads when he is "suiting up."

never rele shows it though so thats stuppid as fudge.

 

[nolder]

I bought 12g co2 cartridges today! I'll probably return them though, as they are not threaded and I haven't opened the package. It was more so to see the what size they were so I know what to look for valve wise at homedepot.