World Web shooter shop class - Part 1

[White_widow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87uRQ7KwbB0

Lol.., we just posted the same video at almost the same time.

 

[Bdude101]

Oh yeah, it is going to be acetone that will be the liquid the final web solution will go through. And when we finish if White_Widow could post the final design of the web solution on Iron spider's web page http://realwebtech.webs.com/ that would be great, because off of what I am hearing so far this product sounds like it is doing very well.

 

[Bdude101]

One problem, how will we get the webbing to stay as a straight strand and be much thicker and have more substance than this light shooting stuff for longer, because the webbing in that video seems to be a really short straight line?.

 

[White_widow]

the solution, as you call it, is never going to be finished. It's whatever we want it to be. I'm going to stick to cellustick until I have nano-cellulose gel.

It's not that big of a problem. All we have to do is put a secondary spinneret that it about as thick as all of the strands. It will limit how far these strands can travel.

edit: I'm going to work in like 15 minutes. I'll talk to you guys again later.

 

[Bdude101]

the solution, as you call it, is never going to be finished. It's whatever we want it to be. I'm going to stick to cellustick until I have nano-cellulose gel.

It's not that big of a problem. All we have to do is put a secondary spinneret that it about as thick as all of the strands. It will limit how far these strands can travel.

edit: I'm going to work in like 15 minutes. I'll talk to you guys again later.

Well when you get your solution and stuff if you could send it to me, that would be great, and actually I think that the solution will be finished.

 

[nolder]

Can hypodermic needles handle the kind of psi we want to work with?

 

[Iron_spider]

Nolder: depends on what pressure you're going for, and what material the needle is made out of.

On another note, I think I found a good power supply for the ES. I'm not sure what kind of current it requires, but if it doesn't need high amperage, then this could work.

Flyback transformers!
http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv/hv/src/fly/index.html

They can give us up to 30 kV in power. I think that should be enough. So if you've got any old TV's laying around, this will probably be pretty cheap for you.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Can hypodermic needles handle the kind of psi we want to work with?

On that note, does it even have to be a hypodermic needle? What material does it have to be made of?

 

[Iron_spider]

From what I just read, I don't think there even needs to be a needle... Google flat spinneret electrospinning. It looks like we can just apply the same concept to our flat-faced spinnerets.

 

[Wadaltmon]

To wadaltmon: cellulose acetate phthalate is a film forming plastic. It might be strong, but it was never intended to be extruded as a fiber. It's worth a shot though. Now as for your first formula, how was the viscosity and the ductility? I'm just curious.

My old formula? As I said, it dried rather quickly, but it had about the same viscosity as something like ketchup or so, before it dried completely. Ductility? It was a little bit brittle, but this was probably because I added a slight bit of cyanocrylate glue. I think that if I took this out, it wouldn't be so, but it really bent pretty well, despite the inside of it being rather dry and brittle (still, no doubt from the addition of cyanocrylate).
Hmmm, intersting about the phthalate. I will try to find a different store that just supplies pure cellulose acetate, but if I can't find anything, I will buy the phthalate. It's about 35 dollars for a pound though, so I don't know if I will be making that formula rather often...
And also, about those CO2 canisters... I would have to be 18 to buy them. So, I can't buy them myself quite yet, I'm afraid... oh well.
I will do some more experiments with my old formula tonight. See how it reacts WITHOUT the cyanocrylate (for some reason, after I added it, it became brittle and emitted a tremendous amount of heat... so much so, that I could barely even hold it without a glove!).

 

[Bdude101]

So do any of you have an overarching plan or solution for the web formula?

 

[Bdude101]

It is kinda of hard to figure out how to dissect how this works. How far will the web shooter shoot and what is the web shooter going to be? If anyone could post the recipe for the web-shooter, that would be great.

 

[flickedydoo]

To Flicky: This can be done one of two ways, though they both require a schrader valve. One is to have a tube at the bottom of the can, and the gas at the top pushes the fluid into the tube to the nozzle. the second method is to have the coupler on the bottom so that the fluid will just fall into the tubes. I call that mechanism gravity feeding, and it's the method I'm using. The pressure is supplied from the schrader at the top.

I'm so sorry, but I still don't fully understand. Perhaps a diagram would help? Also, I have some questions. What is a coupler? What do you mean by nozzle; do you mean the thing that the fluid comes out of? Again, I'm so sorry to bother you, but I would really appreciate your help as I really want to try and do this.
Thanks

 

[Iron_spider]

There's some good info about flat spinneret electrospinning in this article:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/47513633516n1463/fulltext.pdf

 

[spidey44]

Why do you want to use electrospinning?

 

[ng.samuel]

Wow guys. Seriously. I just logged in and just... wow.

White_Widow: I think that you have found the solution to so many problems. The electrospinning idea is brilliant. Thank you.

 

[spidey44]

If were using electrospinning to shoot the fluid and make strands, we need the viscosity to be as low as we can make it, we will need more voltage than usual(increasing the amperage might also work) be electrospinning breaks the droplet into a bunch of nanofibers, also as you increase the voltage I think the taylor cone gets bigger. I think this correct( I might be wrong).

 

[Iron_spider]

If were using electrospinning to shoot the fluid and make strands, we need the viscosity to be as low as we can make it...

Actually, we want a fairly viscous fluid. If the viscosity is too low, we'll get droplets. What we want is fibers. The viscosity shouldn't be too high, but the fluid should definitely be viscous.

Anyway, I was looking at some pictures of electrospinning and I saw something interesting. Take a look at this picture.

The surface the fibers are being spun to is connected to the power source as well. Is that necessary? Does the surface need to be charged as well..?

EDIT: We might just be able to ground it to some other random piece of metal on the shooter. It does have to be grounded to something though.

 

[White_widow]

too much stuff.

To wadaltmon: I was just curious. That's cool stuff.

To spidey44: It's an extrusion process that makes fibers that are strong, uniform, and perfect. It's also very easy.

to sammy: thanks.

To flicky: I can post pics later.

To Bdude: I usually don't say stuff like this, but stop being so overbearing. Before you start spazzing out like you do, do research. Why would I help a kindergartner with algebra if they can't add? Get a baseline knowledge. Seriously, the formula for you guys is cellustick.

 

[spidey44]

Thanks for the correction.

 

[White_widow]

s'all good. ^^

 

[Bdude101]

To Bdude: I usually don't say stuff like this, but stop being so overbearing. Before you start spazzing out like you do, do research. Why would I help a kindergartner with algebra if they can't add? Get a baseline knowledge. Seriously, the formula for you guys is cellustick.

You know White_Widow if you just want me to leave, then fine. I can. But I just want to help, so I am sorry for wasting your time. If you don't want my help then just say so. I have really liked Spider-Man for a long time and I love this idea, so just.....Sorry.

 

[Bdude101]

and dude i can add, subtract and all the other stuff too, so stop being a hater on a guy whose dad is in the hospital with cancer.

 

[White_widow]

To both comments. I don't want you to leave. You can if you wish, and you can stay. Honestly though, I don't understand why you post every few seconds asking the same question, which, by the way is for the webbing formula page.

Feel free to contribute as you see fit. Make the web shooters, and even point out mistakes in logic. That's the reason I love Wadaltmon so much. What you are doing is going beyond this however. I could be mistaken, but all I hear is "what's the formula, let's make the formula, give me the formula, where can I get the formula, send me the formula. What's electrospinning, give me electrospinning, how do I do this, how do I do that."

I'm cool with all of this, and I'm willing to help you with this, but you are spamming the forums with questions on stuff that's already covered.

Now for the kindergarten comment, I was referring to you not knowing enough about polymers to contribute yet to the formula. I bet you don't understand what a solvent does. Once you learn what polymers are, what solvents are, what shear thinning is, what properties we need, and everything like that, then you can ask whatever you wish. But don't ask the same question repeatedly.




And then there's the second statement. I'm quoting you.

"stop being a hater on a guy whose dad is in the hospital with cancer."

I am not hating. I am pointing out that there is something that you are doing that annoys me and is counterproductive. Now the statement about your father is sad, and I feel for you, but I fail to see how that or the fact that you are 13 or 14 is even relevent to my irritation of your abundant posting. If you think I'm going to censor my opinion because of pity, you have another thing coming.

To show you that this is not in bad will, I'm going to make my next post about basic polymer knowledge that you will need for this. Take it or leave it as you wish, but please try to condense your posts (unless they are getting long) and think before you ask the overwhelming amount of repetitive questions.

 

[Bdude101]

guys i am so sorry, i was just really excited. I hope you all can understand. Especially my plea of sorry to White_Widow, i was acting overbearing and this should be a team effort. I know I can't help with chemistry and much but i have actually tried looking stuff up and just want to give out my ideas even though they may not be the best.
Thanks and thanks to all for your consideration.