World Webbing formula

Status
Not open for further replies.
So assuming that this is the right way for the formula, though it may not be, Parker would have been able to make this fluid out of soap, pencil lead, nail polish remover, white glue, and super glue. All of these would be easy to afford, and knowing peter's extensive knowledge in chemistry, he could make it in the little lab that his dad left him. (If you follow the Ultimate spiderman storyline).

What we would need to do is create graphene, modify the white glue, create an emulsion between the two, the emulsion would have to be in such a way that the graphene would create a hydrogen bond, mix that with soap, acetone, add super glue, and add water. While not neccessarily in that order, that's what we'd have to do.
 
is that possible, to make it expand with electricity?

I'm not sure if there are fluids that expand with electricity, but I recently found out about a fluid that will behave like a slime when around electricity, and will react like water when no current is near or around it.
 
I just read the article on the clay and PVA mixture to see what I could learn from it, and though it is mostly over my head, I learned enough from it. http://image.sciencenet.cn/olddata/kexue.com.cn/blog/admin//images/upfiles/20071217222011250911.pdf

It seems that all of the crosslinks in our formula would have to be hydrogen links.

In this website, it gives me more clues as it pertains to that: http://courses.chem.psu.edu/chem112/materials/polymers.html

For example:

In theses paragraphs, it describes what we want:

"The strongest non-covalent forces are hydrogen bonds, which involve a positively charged hydrogen interacting with an electronegative element. Only hydrogen that is bonded to nitrogen, oxygen, or fluorine can do it, e.g. in OH...O, OH...N, NH...O, OH...F, etc. interactions. Take, for example, the nylon polymer. There are NH groups that can make hydrogen bonds to the C=O groups of another chain. Each of these hydrogen bonds is worth only about 15-20 kJ/mole, compared to 300-400 kJ/mole for a covalent bond. Nevertheless, lots of interchain hydrogen bonds add up, making the nylon polymer rather stiff and giving it a Tg of 57oC."

"Viscoelasticity. There is a property that distinguishes polymers from all other types of materials. This property is termed viscoelasticity, and is most easily appreciated by considering the behavior of Silly Putty (polydimethylsiloxane), or the slime (polyvinylalcohol, PVA) we made in class. The silicone polymer contains a -Si-O-Si-O- backbone that terminates in Si-OH groups, and these chain ends are crosslinked by making hydrogen bonds with boric acid, B(OH)3. The linear PVA chains were crosslinked the same way. Unlike covalent bonds, hydrogen bonds can form, break up, and then form again many times in the liquid state. Without these weak crosslinks, Silly Putty could only be a very viscous liquid - it wouldn't bounce. When Silly Putty is thrown at a wall it bounces back, a behavior characteristic of an elastic solid. However, under (slower) tensile or compressive stress, like pulling or squeezing, it deforms like a viscous liquid. How can a material be both an elastic solid and a viscous liquid? The key is the timescale of the deformation. Under application of rapid stress, like bouncing it against a wall, the hydrogen bonds in the polymer don't have time to break and re-form; therefore the deformation is elastic. Slow pulling results in plastic deformation, because there is sufficient time to break and re-form these non-covalent bonds. Recall that the slime we made had the same properties - it deformed like a liquid under the force of gravity, but only slowly - it felt solid enough if somebody threw a hunk of it at you. The phenomenon of viscoelasticity is therefore time-dependent."


So as we see, we can determine which plastic we hould use based on it's overall charge. While the chemistry will be a little difficult with reactivity and other such things to consider, we at least have limitations that will make the search easier. For example, this line "There are NH groups that can make hydrogen bonds to the C=O groups of another chain," tells us that we want a plastic that dissolves in acetone or water that contains NH groups, as graphene contains C=O groups.
 
Last edited:
We don't have the advanced technology to make web fluid layer by layer, nor do we want to. The reason it wouldn't work for our project is because they are going for one solid. We want to transition into a solid. We want a liquid emulsion.

http://www.soapdetergentcosmetic.in/cream__lotion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulsions

Read the first paragraph of the lotion. An emulsifying agent is also a surfactant. They are the same thing. So what we need to do is create a polymer matrix by using the graphene and the soluble plastic in a 50/50 ratio that is stabilized by a surfactant. Now it begins to sound like silly string. As the elmusion of a plastic and a graphene is shot out of the cannister, the resin (in this case Super glue)and plastic will harden, making the web. With the addition of the water, the super glue will dry quickly.

From what I can tell, we just need three things:

1.)How to make graphene at home.
2.)how to mix these to make a perfect emulsion. This means equally distributed.
3.) which plastic to choose. This will make a big difference. It also depends on the charge of graphene. It has to be opposite.
 
Graphene:

Now this is the major thing for this web. It is stronger at a micro level than spider silk and is easy to create chemical bonds to because the material ends are usually attached to hydrogen. It is electrically conductive, incredibly strong and easy to make. The best thing about it though has got to be that unlike most materials, it is available in school supplies. Graphene is basically graphite that is broken into layers until it is 2d. If we want to use this material, and trust me we do, we have to make it.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/nanoclast/...chnology/how-to-make-graphene-at-home-for-fun

There are tons of ways to make this stuff, but there seems to be a problem in how long it takes to make it. I did stumble on a website that explains how to make it in bulk. This requires a lab, but that wouldn't be too hard for a science wiz-kid like parker.

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/05/30/liquid.method.pure.graphene.production
http://esciencenews.com/articles/20....method.mass.production.nanomaterial.graphene

This website explains why graphene is such a good match for polymer dispersion. Apparently, it will bond itself to everything plastic related.
 
Last edited:
So, upon further investigation on Polyvinyl alcohol (PVA), it is the same as cellulose acetate, except that it dissolves in water. This might actually be the plastic that we need. The plastic might not be biodegradable but it will dissolve in water meaning that rain will wash it away. This may present an issue when the fact that Cyanoacrylate becomes solid in water. But it will allow the formula to dry and bond super fast as it leaves the shooter. As the acetone evaporates, the water that is keeping the PVA liquid will harden the CA (cyanoacrylate). As the CA absorbs more water, the PVA becomes stronger. Make a group of hydrogen bonds with Graphene, and it becomes stronger than steel if dispersed right. Add alot of surfactant, and it expands with tremendous pressure and the turbine. Add CO2, vinegar, and salt, and it will speed the reaction to the CA.

Am I going over everyone's head or does this make sense?
 
Last edited:
Although that is almost exactly what I want, I have no idea what it is or how to get it.
 
Last edited:
I like what properties it has. I just have no idea what your talking about. In other words, your going over my head a bit. ;)
 
Alright. Let's see if I can simplify this.

Cyanoacrylate is superglue.
Superglue dries in water.
Superglue stays liquid in acetone.
Polyvinyl alcohol is a plastic.
In water, plastic dissolves.

dissolve plastic in water and dissolve superglue in acetone.
As the acetone evaporates (or leaves) superglue gets harder. When the water is sucked up by superglue, Plastic gets harder.

As the superglue and plastic harden (at the same time), the soap makes large bubbles in the formula. This makes a hard silly string.

If we can make superglue and plastic mix with graphene (in a hydrogen bond) then it will be as strong as steel. This is if the fluid is mixed right.

All of this is in theory. If the Batsam reads this, can you confirm that this sounds right. I know you are good at chemistry.

Does that sound right?
 
Last edited:
Ok, so I just checked out the elctro negativity rates of both CA and PVA. PVA will with the oxygen in the graphene ends. The interesting thing though is that CA bonds to Oxygen-Hydrogen in PVA. Luckily the water will satisfy the CA but it will also create a strong bond with CA. So logically, doesn't that mean that we should bond the graphene and the PVA first? OR should we make the PVA twice in mass than the CA?
 
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry if this sounds disgusting, but for organic shooters, can't there just be a gland on your arm that creates a mixture of mucus, proteins, and other hardening and sticky subtances? Not that anyone could make this without surgery, it is just the idea has always been in the back of my mind, and I'm curious.
 
It is just a possibility I think of when I see the first Spiderman movie. I still like the ones he makes better, though.
 
not so much gross as unrealistic to us. We'd need a genetically altered retrovirus and well with moral standards on biology, I just don't think that would happen. But back to the formula.

I just checked out the chemical formula of the oldest web shooter that someone actually made with a motor, co2 cartridge, a bunch of tubes, an airplane model tank, and a few spring loaded nails. The glue that he used was ment to give it a rubbery texture, but it wasn't chemically similar to the CA. That means that it was just a colloid suspension. There wasn't a hydrogen crosslink between the glues. This means that other than a lack of expansion or a strengthening carbon component, it's actually pretty close to what we have.
 
Guys, I'm Freaking out right now! I found a website that tells me how to create graphene at home without equipment!!!!!!!!!! I'm not sure you could know how important that this is for our experiment. This means that it is possible for parker to create the web fluid that is stronger than steel! While I can't say that the formula is going to be right, I can at least tell you this: We are one step closer to creating WEB FLUID!

http://www.wrex.com/story/15029779/niu-scientists-discover-cheaper-greener-way

The production method uses dry ice an magnesium. Here is my favorite quote from this article:

"The method has been around for decades. Teachers usually burn dry ice and magnesium in introductory chemistry classes to get students excited about science.
"Even now I can't believe its being made in such a simple method and how people missed this because this can be done. Even a high school student or a teenager in the garage or a backyard could do it," says Dr. Hosmane."

Not only that but there is an even greater benefit (As if this isn't awsome enough). The powder produced by this reaction is actually two compounds. The first is graphene and the second is magnesium oxide. While I would ordinarily say that's a bad thing, Magnesium oxide is fireproof, strong, expansive, and reflective white (the color of webbing) These are all properties of webbing, and coupled with the strength of graphene, the ability to compensate for all weaknesses caused by the acetone is too good to pass up.
 
Last edited:
I saw another version that used scotch tape and pencil lead i don't know how well it works though.
 
yeah, I saw that too, but we couldn't produce enough to conduct our experiment. However, For a small test of webbing, that might be good if you can't get the ice and magnesium.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,381
Messages
22,094,673
Members
45,889
Latest member
Starman68
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"