World Webbing formula

[AmazinSpiderboy]

Wrong future foundation

 

[AmazinSpiderboy]

Wrong future foundation it was made by the fantastic four

 

[AmazinSpiderboy]

My bad double post

 

[Wadaltmon]

http://phys.org/news/2011-09-graphene.html
Anyone see this?

 

[Iron_spider]

Oh, my bad. The Fantastic Four are in it though.

 

[Ryleyw]

Soooo does anyone really know how to make a successful web formula?

 

[White_widow]

Depends. What's your definition of success, and what do you want it to do?

 

[TheWeb]

I think its safe to say we have working formulas. We just don't have the resources for some of the ingredients *cough* nanocellulose *cough* that bastard nanocellulose

 

[Ryleyw]

Depends. What's your definition of success, and what do you want it to do?

Okay, a working formula that could be used to swing from, and use it to swing from, though it might swing as long as I can pull stuff to me

 

[Ryleyw]

What's some of the ingredients for the web formula?

 

[White_widow]

That's a bad idea. A very bad idea. You could dislocate your joints, the glue could fail, and I doubt you have the upper body strength to use it even if it was good. In short, nuts.

However, there is a formula in the works made from plant matter. It should theoretically have a tensile strength enough for something like that. no word on the glue.

Right now we are working on a styrene formula. To increase the tensile strength of that, it's just a matter of bonding it to fibrils so small and strong that it would fit through the spinneret. Right now, it's trying to get a primer for fibers or fibrils. Well that, and fibers that will work like that. Glass or carbon fibers are the best we have right now. Glass is cheaper though.

 

[Ryleyw]

Okay,so where exactly could I buy the plant matter formula ? That's the main thing on planing to do with the web formula.But if the plant formula doesn't work I'm just gonna go with the styrene formula.

 

[Ryleyw]

Correct if I'm wrong, polystyrene is in foam cups,it's a solid,so by melting it with acetone it'll become liquid polystyrene. And also does anyone know how to get stryrene?

 

[White_widow]

uhhh... I was referring to polystyene. Styrene is just easier to type.

Guys, before you just try to jump into the formula, You NEED to have a baseline knowledge. Read this site, get familiar with it, and you will have the basic understanding of polymeric science:

http://pslc.ws/macrog/level2.htm

read levels 2-4

 

[Ryleyw]

Okay

 

[MarvelFan1]

hi im new here, well i joined about a week ago. i remember somebody saying that its two parts that harden in a matter of time, but a catalyst is added to speed up its reaction. i know one of those parts is a hardening agent, but what is the other part and what ingredients could be used as the two parts and the catalyst?

 

[megajs]

wow, your experiment turned out much prettier than mine. Nice. ^^ Anyway, you'll notice today, webs, that it is very brittle. That's the next problem we work on. Luckily rubber cement should give it both a more flexible and elastic feel, and should increase bonding to a number of other surfaces. That will only bond to polystyrene and maybe a few unlucky things that are weak to acetone.

Now as for strength, I'll address that graphene question. I think it would help, but it would have to be a specific type of graphene. The type we'd be using is the same one that contains magnesium oxide, because you get them from the same experiment. That means that probably not. At the end of every chicken wire carbon chain there is either going to be a hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen ending. We don't want that. Instead, we want it to bond directly to the formula.

To strengthen the polystyrene formula we are going to want fibrous reinforcement. The formula, elastyrene, (that's what we'll call it to define it from other formulas) is going to act like fiberglass with resin. The resin will take some of the abuse, but the fibers are going to hold it together, especially because we will choose fibers that bond easily with contact cement.

Just a thought, what if you use the same formula but have multiple strands connected to a surface then wrapped into one. would it increase its strength? (not a science wiz here just spitballing)

 

[White_widow]

that's what we will do. It won't increase strength to much, but it will distribute in case one breaks.

Strengthening the formula might be easier than I thought. True, there's no chemical that you can add to make it stronger, but if you can distribute powdered glass fibers equally in the styrofoam or cellulose, then you can increase the tensile strength. Look at this chart:


Material Specific gravity Tensile strength MPa (ksi) Compressive strength MPa (ksi)
Polyester resin (unreinforced)[4] 1.28 55 (7.98) 140 (20.3)
Polyester and Chopped Strand Mat Laminate 30% E-glass[4] 1.4 100 (14.5) 150 (21.8)
Polyester and Woven Rovings Laminate 45% E-glass[4] 1.6 250 (36.3) 150 (21.8)
Polyester and Satin Weave Cloth Laminate 55% E-glass[4] 1.7 300 (43.5) 250 (36.3)
Polyester and Continuous Rovings Laminate 70% E-glass[4] 1.9 800 (116) 350 (50.8)
E-Glass Epoxy composite[5] 1.99 1,770 (257)
S-Glass Epoxy composite[5] 1.95 2,358 (342)

I'm not sure how this will look, but if you can't read this, the point is if you add fiberglass to a resin (or plastic) it can increase it's tensile strength. In the case of polyester resin, it can go from 55 MPa to 800 MPa. Now results vary from resin to resin, so we need to find a way to bond the fibers to the formula. Any ideas?

 

[megajs]

that's what we will do. It won't increase strength to much, but it will distribute in case one breaks.

Strengthening the formula might be easier than I thought. True, there's no chemical that you can add to make it stronger, but if you can distribute powdered glass fibers equally in the styrofoam or cellulose, then you can increase the tensile strength. Look at this chart:


Material Specific gravity Tensile strength MPa (ksi) Compressive strength MPa (ksi)
Polyester resin (unreinforced)[4] 1.28 55 (7.98) 140 (20.3)
Polyester and Chopped Strand Mat Laminate 30% E-glass[4] 1.4 100 (14.5) 150 (21.8)
Polyester and Woven Rovings Laminate 45% E-glass[4] 1.6 250 (36.3) 150 (21.8)
Polyester and Satin Weave Cloth Laminate 55% E-glass[4] 1.7 300 (43.5) 250 (36.3)
Polyester and Continuous Rovings Laminate 70% E-glass[4] 1.9 800 (116) 350 (50.8)
E-Glass Epoxy composite[5] 1.99 1,770 (257)
S-Glass Epoxy composite[5] 1.95 2,358 (342)

I'm not sure how this will look, but if you can't read this, the point is if you add fiberglass to a resin (or plastic) it can increase it's tensile strength. In the case of polyester resin, it can go from 55 MPa to 800 MPa. Now results vary from resin to resin, so we need to find a way to bond the fibers to the formula. Any ideas?

are we talking about bonding it to the web once its been shot or directly to the chemical compound?

 

[White_widow]

sort of both. We can't bond it directly to the chemical compound, but we can use a primer that's made for semi-polar resins.

the theory is like fiberglass. If you've ever done that before. It's layer after layer of a liquid plastic and fiber glass. As the fluid encases the fibers, it forms bonds. We let it do this before we even put it in a cartridge, only we'll use an emulsifying agent or "Stir it real good".

 

[spidey44]

I thought of adding glass but, would it be stronger if you added powdered graphite?

 

[spidey44]

This idea sounds really familiar did I or someone else mention this earlier(adding powdered glass or graphite).

 

[White_widow]

You're talking about graphene I believe. If I remember correctly, we first started talking about reinforcement with graphene in PVOH. I don't know how graphite would do honestly. Powdered glass is only good in fiber form, because if transfers some of the load from the plastic to the fibers. Carbon fibers would be nice to though.

There are only a few ways to make a polymer stronger.

1.) Crosslinking

2.) Co-polymer

3.) reinforcement.

For us, it's going to be easier to do both 2 and 3. The elastic part of the formula is going to give "webbing" toughness. The reinforcement can help bind the formula together and if hydrogen bonds can be made, then even better. Cross-linking is beyond our level of expertise and equipment as it requires heat and pressure levels that we can't reach. (The reason tire rubber is so strong is because it forms a graphene structure between an elastomer and sulfer)

 

[megajs]

could something like this maybe work?
http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/i...breglass-Liquid-Hardener/_/N-ntje3/R-I8659427

 

[White_widow]

It could work. That's what you would call a catalyst. It speeds up the chemical reaction. What you would want to do for that is find the specific resin that matches that catalyst. From there, just experiment with curing rates. If it cures in three seconds or less (ideal) then talk to the web about working on a misting nozzle. His design would work well for that.

Hey guys, for the sake of those who don't have access to a lab, I'm going to make this a little more simple:


Create your own webbing formula in 4 easy steps!

step1: Choose a plastic that is easy to dissolve.
a.)polystyrene
b.) PVOH
c.) viscose rayon

Step2: Choose an adhesive that compliments your plastic and hardens quickly.
a.) for polystyrene I would use an elastomeric glue, because it is brittle.
b.) for PVOH use a quick drying strong glue. PVOH is kind of rubbery and it needs strength.
c.)viscose, make sure not to use cyanoacrylate. It will eat the fiber up.

Step3: Research the glue and the plastic. Can they be in the shooter together or separate? Will they require something to bond?

Step 4: Work on improving formulations. Use strengtheners and cross-linking agents. If you think you can, mix polymers for better results and better costs.

I think as we stand, we are all step 3.