The Dark Knight Rises "We'll use many of the same characters"....

[Infinity9999x]

This is a pointless and infantile discussion. I want to respect your right to an opinion but... I just can't. In fact, I think it needs to be confiscated before you do some damage.




...Ras jumped. Haha!

You sir have forever turned the last 10 minutes of Batman Begins into a comedy for me.

That's perfectly fine. However, I think it somewhat humorous that you can't wrap your head around a possibility that a FICTIONAL character in a COMIC BOOK MOVIE could survive an impossible fall...

when both TDK and BB have Batman surviving impossible falls.

But hey, I come across illogical people all the time on the hype. And you are entitled to your opinion as well.

And AGAIN (this isn't directed at you protoctisa, just a general comment) to reiterate this point ONE MORE TIME I'm on suggesting that I think Ra's will come back. I honestly don't think Ra's will return. This is a speculative thread purely for fun going off what little information we have.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Sorry, I am on my way out, honestly. I just wanted to add:

Surely this is engaging with the enemy on their own terms? By your own definitions, you aren't even allowed to use this argument. Because everything's just non-reality, or non-sense. Everything's just whatever you want to believe happened. Like Ras jumping.

I know. And I agree with you. In the post you quoted (but left out the part I'm going to refer to) I say that I have no problem with the instance mentioned above. I was merely pointing out that it was not realistic. Just like Ra's jumping out of a train and living would be not realistic.

But TDK and BB have un-realistic events in both movies. So Ra's jumping and living would fit.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Ok seriously this is just getting pathetic.

Moving on the discussion:

I could see Dent being brought back. The joker is, out of all the characters, the one least likely to come back since nolan has refered to that due to ledgers passing. However, Batman needs to clear his name and since the joker wont be featured, you need the real culpit to take the blame. I could see this happening to allow the story to move forward.

In regards to Ra's, bringing him back for a second story arc with Talia and the League of shadows would be intriuing. The emotional shock to see him again and with forces gathered against Batman at a moment we least expect would be excellent. I do not think we will see him again to close out this batman origins trillogy but for a next one it would be great.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Ok seriously this is just getting pathetic.

Moving on the discussion:

I could see Dent being brought back. The joker is, out of all the characters, the one least likely to come back since nolan has refered to that due to ledgers passing. However, Batman needs to clear his name and since the joker wont be featured, you need the real culpit to take the blame. I could see this happening to allow the story to move forward.

In regards to Ra's, bringing him back for a second story arc with Talia and the League of shadows would be intriuing. The emotional shock to see him again and with forces gathered against Batman at a moment we least expect would be excellent. I do not think we will see him again to close out this batman origins trillogy but for a next one it would be great.

I could see the Two-Face idea working. Or the whole "fake two face thing" and eventually it coming to light that Two-Face was the one behind the crimes.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I'm sure this has been brought up already but don't you think nolan is just referring to the fact that alfred, lucious and gordon are gonna part of the 3rd one just like the 1st two. That those including bruce obviously are the returning characters?

 

[antsman41]

This is what I am hoping for...

Main returning;
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Alfred Pennyworth
Commissioner Gordon
Lucius Fox

Secondary returning;
Dr. Crane/Scarecrow
Mayor Garcia
Det. Stephens
Det. Ramirez

 

[Venom 1988]

I'm sure this has been brought up already but don't you think nolan is just referring to the fact that alfred, lucious and gordon are gonna part of the 3rd one just like the 1st two. That those including bruce obviously are the returning characters?

Read 1st post

 

[Figs]

This is what I am hoping for...

Main returning;
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Alfred Pennyworth
Commissioner Gordon
Lucius Fox

Secondary returning;
Dr. Crane/Scarecrow
Mayor Garcia
Det. Stephens

That's most likely who will return with the first list. I don't care one way or another if Scarecrow and Mayor Garcia come back or not but I wouldn't mind seeing Stephens return.

 

[Sawyer]

Mayor Garcia must return.

 

[itsthebatman]

Ramirez. The only other person who knows about Dent. Or will she suffer from Chuck Cunningham Syndrome?

 

[antsman41]

Mayor Garcia must return.

Yeah, he is awesome...

 

[antsman41]

Ramirez. The only other person who knows about Dent. Or will she suffer from Chuck Cunningham Syndrome?

Yeah, we need her back to tie up the Dent storyline.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Mayor Garcia must return.

Yeah, he is awesome...

He has pretty eyes. I thought he was wearing eyeliner or something (lawl), but apparently that's just how his eyes naturally look.

 

[BestGirl]

I could see the Two-Face idea working. Or the whole "fake two face thing" and eventually it coming to light that Two-Face was the one behind the crimes.

What fake Two-Face thing?

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Welcome back Keyser.

Thanks man.

I agree that Talia is better with Ra's. I'd dearly love to see Ra's back if she comes into play, just not at the expense of the larger mythology, if that makes any sense. Though if they could somehow bring Ra's back and do Rise of the Freaks and the evolution of the mob, as well as wrapping up Batman's story, that would be amazing. There are ways to do this, but I think it would have to be at Catwoman's expense.

Yeah, I think there's room for only one femme fatale in a movie like this, so we could get either Talia or Selina but probably not both.

I think using either character in a story about Bruce's redemption has some great potential. A Batman on the run from the law, who has recently lost the woman he's loved his whole life, meeting a strong, badass woman who is so much like him and who can't be so easily murdered by one of his enemies...I can see this leading Bruce into darker places as he falls under the spell of this woman, in the end having to choose between her and doing the right thing, giving him another chance to either be the hero or the villain. And this time rising above the mire.

I think something like that works equally well with Talia or with Selina. Though perhaps Talia's connection to Ra's adds a layer of something poetic, connecting back to the first film. On the other hand Selina is more iconic in the eyes of the general public.

Dead in the script and dead or not, while I don't think they went this route, Two-Face could easily have come back. It'd be cheap, but it might have been better than not reaching the character's potential.

Agreed completely.

As far as Ra's surviving...

Personally, I think Ra's is more likely to die if he jumps than if he somehow survived those crashes and those explosions.

And personally, the more unlikely it seems that Ra's Al Ghul survived, the more impact his return would have.

That's actually sort of the point of someone coming back from the dead.

That's it's seemingly impossible.

"I knew there was a possibility you survived, because there was no body found after the investigation" doesn't have as much impact as...

"How is this POSSIBLE?"

This is one of those times where I think back on those epic debates we used to have and I can't help but wonder how we went from that, to basically being on the same side. This was beautifully said, man.

Hey, Proctologist -- or whatever the hell your name is -- did you read what The Guard just said? About how the more unlikely it seems that Ra's survived, the more impact his return would have? So pointing at pictures of the train wreck from BB only serves to prove that it looks like Ra's couldn't possibly have survived. Which would make it all the more shocking if he did. Yeah, again... Nolan isn't likely to do that. But you see why we think it would be cool, right?

With Rachel and Batman falling on the car, we're supposed to believe that he used the cape to break some of the fall.

We are, but they looked like they were falling PRETTY damned fast. And that glider's not going to work terribly well with only one wing extended. Ever seen a guy try to land a plane with one wing? No, because that shit's falling like a freight car full of bricks. But with a hell of a spiral.

What fake Two-Face thing?

An idea that was stated earlier that perhaps, if Harvey IS meant to be dead, that there could be somebody doing copycat stuff, kind of a fake Two-Face.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Ramirez. The only other person who knows about Dent. Or will she suffer from Chuck Cunningham Syndrome?

Paddy! Dia Dhuit! t:

 

[Keyser Sushi]

He has pretty eyes. I thought he was wearing eyeliner or something (lawl), but apparently that's just how his eyes naturally look.

Dude must have thick eyelashes. I found it somewhat disconcerting, myself. But it's probably the sort of thing that drives the ladies wild.

 

[Victarion]

A copycat Two-Face sounds a bit like the Hangman from DV. I'm glad Nolan will be further developing old characters. The quote brings to mind something I read on here about how there either might not be--or doesn't need to be--a villain in BB3 (or TDKR)

 

[Keyser Sushi]

A copycat Two-Face sounds a bit like the Hangman from DV. I'm glad Nolan will be further developing old characters. The quote brings to mind something I read on here about how there either might not be--or doesn't need to be--a villain in BB3 (or TDKR)

Ahhh... are you referring to the "Batman as the 'villain'" concept?

Personally I don't think that washes, because we need some way for Batman to redeem himself in the eyes of the public and some way for him to continue to act as a guardian and protector. Having a villain of some type - perhaps one who at first seems to be a hero - would help make this possible.

Think "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" or something like that, with Batman as Quasimodo.

 

[Victarion]

Yeah--it was the idea of Batman on the run from the Feds. I agree, there needs to be some threat posed to Gotham that Batman can overcome...not necessarily to get everyone on his side like in the old Adam West show. More like he appears to sacrifice himself to overcome the threat to the city, and the movie ends with the implication that he is still around as a specter keeping vigil over the city. Sort of like the Catwoman ending in Batman Returns.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Yeah--it was the idea of Batman on the run from the Feds. I agree, there needs to be some threat posed to Gotham that Batman can overcome...not necessarily to get everyone on his side like in the old Adam West show. More like he appears to sacrifice himself to overcome the threat to the city, and the movie ends with the implication that he is still around as a specter keeping vigil over the city. Sort of like the Catwoman ending in Batman Returns.

You know, many years ago... um... well, five years ago, or so... after Batman Begins came out, we were all here debating what kind of trajectory a Nolan Bat-trilogy might take. I remember suggesting even back then that I'd love to see Ra's return and have Batman seem to sacrifice himself to save the city in a kind of "Holmes and Moriarty go over the Reichenbach Falls" ending. Not literally with a waterfall, of course, but that sort of thing.

Although now that I think about it... Holmes never went over the falls, Watson misread the clues. Which means that really Holmes and Moriarty fought and Moriarty fell to his death, while Holmes escaped. Which I guess is pretty much the end of Batman Begins.

Never mind, then.

But still... I wouldn't mind an ending like that here. Except that I doubt it'll happen. Doesn't seem to fit with "The Dark Knight Rises" as a title, anyway. Unless he comes back from the dead at the end.

 

[Mach2Infinity]

I find it both amusing and ironic that no-one has cottoned onto the point that Ra's al Ghul is a symbol, just as Batman is. They're effectively masks and anyone can wear those masks. Henri Ducard most certainly died in that train crash. He would've been incinerated, crushed and intombed. Now, even though Ducard was the 'real' Ra's al Ghul, it doesn't mean that no-one else has stepped up to the mantle of Ra's al Ghul and taken his place. For instance, the League of Shadows quite cleverly used deception and 'theatricality' to disguise who the real Ra's al Ghul was. The decoy for all intents and purposes left the party along with the other members of the League of Shadows. It would stand to reason that they've re-grouped, recruited and convalesced in order to strike at Gotham once more. Ra's al Ghul can come back but if so, it won't be Henri Ducard.

 

[The Villain]

I would love to see Scarecrow come back and redeem himself. I love Christopher Nolan but for him to have liked Scarecrow like he said he did, he sure let him get punked out big time. I mean come on...freakin Rachel Dawes took him down in the first movie, then in TDK he was in it for all of 5 minutes before Batman apprehended him. Scarecrow is supposed to be one of Batman's biggest threats...it's been stated in the comics many times before. So he deserves some redemption if you ask me.

I'm all for the Scarecrow returning and I would love him to get a bigger role. Yes he did appear in BB's the most but I always had the idea that Nolan was building this scrawny guy to be a bigger threat later on. Ra's was good acharacter but I still preferred Scarecrow.

In TDK his cameo was okay but again I was hoping to see a return at the end of the film.

You probably won't like this idea but for me the perfect villains are Mad Hatter & Scarecrow. Out of the ones thats left I'd pick them. Black Mask? maybe. I'll need to read up on this guy 1st.

 

[Doc Samson]

You're missing the point, Doc. I think we've all said all along that Nolan is unlikely to bring either character back.

We've simply said that he COULD do so without having to bend the believability scale very far. And that we wouldn't mind if he did. Which is true, whether you like it or not.

You understand that we're not saying we believe this is going to happen. Merely that it'd cool if it did. You understand the difference, right?

I don't want to beat a dead horse or stay on this topic much longer but I will respond to this one last time, and then discuss characters that have a good chance of returning.

I guess me and you, and the others here who share your viewpoint, can just agree to disagree. I think I get your point rather easily, I just think you fail to get mine. Bringing back either Ras or Two-Face does bend the believablity scale very far, and this is true, whether you or I like it or not.

See, like I said earlier, we can go comb through and nitpick every instance of something fake happening in these movies, and it really doesn't get to the crux of the argument. Almost every action movie in film history has at least some level of fantasy element to it, and this is even moreso for a comic book film. But it's not the actions, it's the consequences of those actions that have a weight to them in Nolan's vision.

Were the Joker's actions completely far-fetched? Absolutely, you, me, or anyone else on here isn't confused by that. It's illogical to try and explain how he managed to plant bombs and other devices with an almost ghost-like quality, but that isn't my point. The point is, when said bombs actually explode, there's real repurcussions. Speaking of which...

Using your logic, Rachel Dawes should be able to come back as well, her death was no less horrific than Ras Al Ghul's, but I haven't seen anyone clamoring for that, I wonder why? We can't handpick which character we think is cool enough to come back or which villain we think wasn't utilized properly, because once you do that, you open the door for anybody to return, at which point the whole premise that these movies were based on, the idea that on a somewhat realistic level you could acquire these items and dress like a bat or paint your face and become a terrorist, falls flat on it's face. And since there were no Lazarus Pits, and no Permawhite Joker, and no Two-Face robbing the 2nd National Bank of Gotham on Februrary 2nd, it's safe to say there are certain rules that have been established, that need to be adherred to, chief amongst them, when people die, they really die...

 

[Golgo-13]

Depending on how much time will have passed between TDK and TDKR, The Joker caused way to much anarchy for him not to show up in the third film, in some shape or form. I mean, he was Gothams local terrorist. The media coverage of all his chaos will by national news for a very long time. I think after Nolans comments, more now than before, we'll see/hear from The Joker in TDKR.