The Dark Knight Rises "We'll use many of the same characters"....

[protoctista]

Using your logic, Rachel Dawes should be able to come back as well,

Lol, what are you talking about? Obviously she jumped!

 

[Mister H.]

I find it both amusing and ironic that no-one has cottoned onto the point that Ra's al Ghul is a symbol, just as Batman is. They're effectively masks and anyone can wear those masks. Henri Ducard most certainly died in that train crash. He would've been incinerated, crushed and intombed. Now, even though Ducard was the 'real' Ra's al Ghul, it doesn't mean that no-one else has stepped up to the mantle of Ra's al Ghul and taken his place. For instance, the League of Shadows quite cleverly used deception and 'theatricality' to disguise who the real Ra's al Ghul was. The decoy for all intents and purposes left the party along with the other members of the League of Shadows. It would stand to reason that they've re-grouped, recruited and convalesced in order to strike at Gotham once more. Ra's al Ghul can come back but if so, it won't be Henri Ducard.

No, I've been on that for years. I suggested it earlier in this thread and only one person responded, who basically questioned my intelligence for suggesting such a thing. I was told Neeson was the one and only Ra's, end of story, so I moved on.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Doc,

I was thinking about what an intelligent post this is, and I was going to go point-for-point with you, but the truth is, if you're arguing this hard about it, you're still missing the point of this thread.

I don't want to beat a dead horse or stay on this topic much longer but I will respond to this one last time, and then discuss characters that have a good chance of returning.

I guess me and you, and the others here who share your viewpoint, can just agree to disagree. I think I get your point rather easily, I just think you fail to get mine. Bringing back either Ras or Two-Face does bend the believablity scale very far, and this is true, whether you or I like it or not.

See, like I said earlier, we can go comb through and nitpick every instance of something fake happening in these movies, and it really doesn't get to the crux of the argument. Almost every action movie in film history has at least some level of fantasy element to it, and this is even moreso for a comic book film. But it's not the actions, it's the consequences of those actions that have a weight to them in Nolan's vision.

Were the Joker's actions completely far-fetched? Absolutely, you, me, or anyone else on here isn't confused by that. It's illogical to try and explain how he managed to plant bombs and other devices with an almost ghost-like quality, but that isn't my point. The point is, when said bombs actually explode, there's real repurcussions. Speaking of which...

Using your logic, Rachel Dawes should be able to come back as well, her death was no less horrific than Ras Al Ghul's, but I haven't seen anyone clamoring for that, I wonder why? We can't handpick which character we think is cool enough to come back or which villain we think wasn't utilized properly, because once you do that, you open the door for anybody to return, at which point the whole premise that these movies were based on, the idea that on a somewhat realistic level you could acquire these items and dress like a bat or paint your face and become a terrorist, falls flat on it's face. And since there were no Lazarus Pits, and no Permawhite Joker, and no Two-Face robbing the 2nd National Bank of Gotham on Februrary 2nd, it's safe to say there are certain rules that have been established, that need to be adherred to, chief amongst them, when people die, they really die...

 

[The Guard]

Yeah, I think there's room for only one femme fatale in a movie like this, so we could get either Talia or Selina but probably not both.

Although, the potential Talia AND Selina in one film would have? Now that would be fantastic.

We used to have debates?

As far as people surviving, I fully expect to see Rachel return as Lady Two-Face, or The Tally Woman or some such nonsense.

 

[baleheadbrasil]

Lol, what are you talking about? Obviously she jumped!

No,she did not. She is dead.

 

[Lungrocket]

Although, the potential Talia AND Selina in one film would have? Now that would be fantastic.

Or the potential to combine Talia and Selina into ONE CHARACTER.

Selina Kyle being Bruce's new love interest but under it all Bruce discovers that Selina Kyle is really just an alias for Talia Al Ghul.

She would have the skills of a Ninja (hense why she could kick ass as Catwoman) who dons the outfit to beat him at his own game.

And she could still be a cat burglar, but just steal something far more important and grand than simply jewels. Something more along the lines of the microwave emmiter that her father stole from Wayne in Begins.

 

[Gianakin_]

Or the potential to combine Talia and Selina into ONE CHARACTER.

Selina Kyle being Bruce's new love interest but under it all Bruce discovers that Selina Kyle is really just an alias for Talia Al Ghul.

She would have the skills of a Ninja (hense why she could kick ass as Catwoman) who dons the outfit to beat him at his own game.

And she could still be a cat burglar, but just steal something far more important and grand than simply jewels. Something more along the lines of the microwave emmiter that her father stole from Wayne in Begins.

Seeing that it's already been done in BB with Ra's/Ducard, I have to disagree for 2 reasons.

1. It'll be somewhat repetitive
2.Catwoman's too much of a heavy-hitter as opposed to Ducard, so I wouldn't like such a big change to her character.

On the flipside, since Talia's dad pulled switcheroos, she could, too! Just not Catwoman...

 

[Infinity9999x]

Guys, can we not resort to personal "your mom" attacks? I just made this thread for fun speculation. As I've said a few times, we don't really think that Ra's or Two-Face or anyone is going to come back. If I had to bet money, I would bet that Nolan simply meant the supporting cast is returning. But we don't have anything else to go on, so I did this just for fun.

And as far as the Ra's/realism argument goes, I think we can just let that drop. I and other posters feel that it's not out of the realm of possibility given the past two films pension for unrealistic events for him to return. Others don't. That's that.

What fake Two-Face thing?

I was referring to my original post, in where I brought up the idea that whoever the main villain turns out to be, they find out about the Gordon/Bats cover up of Dent's previous actions, and they start committing crimes/murders and leaving clues to make it seem like Dent has come back from the dead (clues only Batman and Gordon would get). Basically as a way of psychological attacks.

 

[Figs]

Mayor Garcia must return.

I have to admit I love how he says the word "cops" when he's talking to Dent about people's wallets getting lighter. t:

 

[Gianakin_]

MAyor Garcia and the Chechen were the best secondary characters of TDK. The Chechen seriously needs to be part of canon. I don't care how they'll reproduce the accent from the film, but they better do it.

 

[antsman41]

MAyor Garcia and the Chechen were the best secondary characters of TDK. The Chechen seriously needs to be part of canon. I don't care how they'll reproduce the accent from the film, but they better do it.

Yeha, The Chechen is the best "Nolan Created" character.

He was so awesome and unique...

 

[itsthebatman]

Paddy! Dia Dhuit! t:

Dia is muire dhuit.t:
Good to see ya, welcome back to the boards!

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Dia is muire dhuit.t:
Good to see ya, welcome back to the boards!

Thankee, my friend. I trust the status remains quo here at the Hype? Half of us are laid-back slackers and the other half are batpoop insane? t:

 

[itsthebatman]

Thankee, my friend. I trust the status remains quo here at the Hype? Half of us are laid-back slackers and the other half are batpoop insane? t:

Pretty much. I'm only just back regularly myself recently, bit more free time now.

On topic... who's returning, and who's not? I think myself that Nolan is simply referring to the usual gang of Bruce, Gordon, Alfred and Lucius, although I would love to see Mayor Garcia (on holiday from The Island) back in the mix, along with his lovely eyes.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Yeha, The Chechen is the best "Nolan Created" character.

He was so awesome and unique...

The Chechen should return as the main villain for the next film - Angry Guy Who Almost Got Eaten By Dogs and Exaggerates Certain Words. It'd be epic.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

It happens to everyone. No problemot: Also, you're working on a movie? That's cool. Just an indie flick for fun?

And indie flick for fun, exactly. The big "DON'T CLICK THIS LINK" in my siggy takes you to the official website we set up. We're a long way from being done on the movie, but it sure is a fun way to spend your time. t:

And I actually wouldn't mind seeing a few of the smaller cast return as well. I actually did enjoy the mayor too. He was a nice character, despite his little screen time, he gave you a good sense of where he came from. Someone who obviously didn't seem all corrupt, but who had been disillusioned and now seemed to just be "stuck" in the Gotham mire so to speak.

Oh, definitely seeing the Mayor and the remaining MCU Detectives again would be a fun nod - just as it was cool to see Scarecrow again in TDK. I was sort of disappointed that Flass wasn't around, it could have been fun to develop his character, but seeing TDK there definitely wasn't room for that. He wouldn't belong in the MCU and there were really no other detectives featured in the movie.

 

[Mach2Infinity]

No, I've been on that for years. I suggested it earlier in this thread and only one person responded, who basically questioned my intelligence for suggesting such a thing. I was told Neeson was the one and only Ra's, end of story, so I moved on.

Yes I can confirm:

Uhh...not sure where you are coming from or why you are insulting my intelligence. I'm well aware that Neeson was Ra's and Watanabe was an imposter and that there was no real supernatural element. I've been aware of that since the first time I watched Batman Begins. That was the point of my post. If Ra's truly died, maybe he can still be immortal because Ra's is a title that has been passed down to those deemed worthy of it through the centuries. Just because a Lazarus Pit wouldn't fit in Nolan's films doesn't mean Ra's can't be "immortal". A new Ra's could enter Gotham. Or Neeson's Ra's could have simply survived.

I don't just take someone's word for it, I like to enquire on my own.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's patently obvious that the 'immortality' of Ra's al Ghul's is to do with the fact that his name is a potent symbol, one which has been used for generations by successive figures who exploit the fear and power which the character holds. We have a clear dialogue exchange which highlights this point:

"Is Ra's al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?" (in a sardonic tone)

"Or cheap parlour tricks to conceal your true identity Ra's?"

Henri Ducard was merely the latest man to have taken the mantle of Ra's al Ghul. One could even infer that he was training Bruce Wayne to become the next Ra's al Ghul. This was a very clever move by Nolan. He kept the character 'immortal' because any man could become Ra's al Ghul. Ra's al Ghul is not a man but a symbol, just as Batman is a symbol. Therefore, any man could become Batman. Remember when Bruce Wayne is 'brainstorming' his vision for the Batman symbol, one of the key traits of it is that it would be "everlasting". As Ducard had replaced the Ken Watanabe imposter with a younger man, it would not be implausible for this decoy Ra's al Ghul to become the actual Ra's al Ghul. The League of Shadows were merely defeated not destroyed in the first film.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Okay guys, can we please stop with the personal attacks?

Any who, Mister H and Mach2Infinity,

I think it's very possible that there was a second in command waiting to take the place of Ducard if/when he fell as Ra's. I just don't know how interested I would be in seeing that to be honest. The reason Ra's was an interesting character to me was because of his personal connection to Bruce. But another random guy stepping in to take the Ra's title wouldn't hold any interest to me.

Unless, of course, Talia is the new Ra's and we find that out at the end. Something that could be interesting.

 

[Brother Jack]

Well, this thread turned out well.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Well, this thread turned out well.

Didn't it just?

I'm REAL sorry for my hand in that.

 

[Bat-Mite]

If you just ignore people who're talkin' smack about you, they usually get bored and eventually drop it. Or get their asses kicked by a mod. Just stop replyin' to them if they won't let it go.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

If you just ignore people who're talkin' smack about you, they usually get bored and eventually drop it. Or get their asses kicked by a mod. Just stop replyin' to them if they won't let it go.

Yeah, you're right.

You know what? I'm gonna go hand out some candy. I'll be back eventually.

 

[itsthebatman]

But they also both know the truth about what she did. I wonder how that affects her, career-wise? Not well, I would imagine.

Does Gordon know about her involvement with Maroni? If so, I'd love to see that subplot explored.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Again, can we please keep to discussing the possibilities for the future Batman and not Keyser? I don't want this to turn into a flame fest.

I'd add something on to the above statement but I find myself perfectly satisfied with it.

Thank you.

Does Gordon know about her involvement with Maroni? If so, I'd love to see that subplot explored.

That is an interesting angle. I'd be surprised if he let her keep her job.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Does Gordon know about her involvement with Maroni? If so, I'd love to see that subplot explored.

Well, I guess I'm not sure. I guess only Harvey and Rachel knew for sure, and Wertz, but Harvey scragged him. Maybe it hasn't come out. But any storyline involving Ramirez really SHOULD touch on that, even if it's just her harboring a horrible secret.

Run away kids!

t:

I have this system: the better the costume, the more candy you get. We got a lot of people trying WAY harder this year, it was awesome. Until I ran out of candy.

Worst. Feeling. EVER.