The Dark Knight Rises "We'll use many of the same characters"....

[FCEEVIPER]

I agree, with the exception of the possibility of another Scarecrow cameo.

I would love to see Mr.Crane for one last time, and also Ras would be a great touch to cap off a beautiful trilogy.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

And I agree with you Keyser. Also, while I'd rather have Catwoman then Talia, the way you would have her appear would be very interesting. As the dangerous femme fatale that looks like she wants to help Bruce but ends up leading him right back to Ra's. That could be great. And it could be an interesting choice for Talia at the end as well, she may actually end up falling for Bruce, and having to choose between her father's revenge or Bruce.

That's always been the thing that I like best about the Ra's / Talia / Bruce dynamic. The kind of ****ed-up family vibe. Talia loves Bruce, Bruce loves Talia until he finds out who her dad is. Ra's loves Talia, wants her to be happy, and respects Bruce even though he knows that they will always be at odds. Begins did about half of that, and respectably well. But there is SO much more that could be done.

I really wouldn't be opposed to seeing Ra's back again, just because I think he's a great villain that could easily be utilized more. And obviously the same with Two-Face. While I enjoyed what they did with him in TDK, his character could have done much more. Though, as I've said before, the odds of Two-Face returning are slim to none.

Agreed 100%. I have actually never been a huge fan of Two-Face but TDK made me want MORE, dammit.

p.s. I just saw the Usual Suspects a few weeks ago. AWESOME.

Isn't it? It's a shame it's become cool to hate Bryan Singer since Superman Returns...he's a very talented director who, I think, is maybe not the franchise guy that we all thought he was after X2. But he's very talented and hating on him is, to me, sort of the international sign of cinematic ignorance. So yeah... glad you dug the Usual Suspects. :-p

 

[Dark Knight]

I would think we would have a better chance at seeing Talia ahead of Ra's also.

 

[Knight Rise]

I would think we would have a better chance at seeing Talia ahead of Ra's also.

yeah that'd be better than bringing Ra's himself back

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Honestly though, since in the Nolan-verse it's highly unlikely the Lazaraus pits exist, it would make sense that there would be a waiting "second in command" so to speak to take over when the existing Ra's steps down/dies. Though for story purposes I really wouldn't want to see another actor playing Ra's version 2.0

While I agree that it's unlikely that Lazarus pits exist in the Nolanverse, there are too many good ways to bring Liam back since we never saw Ra's' body. It may require a suspension of disbelief but I don't think it has to cross into X-Files territory in order to work. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir here...

And that is a good point about Nolan, though hasn't he said before that he's done after this one? Though, I wouldn't mind if he came back. I'm also glad he said ending the story arc. Lots of people took his earlier quotes to think that he meant ending Batman's story completely (Bruce unmasking/dying) which I always found silly, considering that these movies have been all about the rookie Batman. Bruce still hasn't reached the level of the experienced seasoned Batman yet. I'm expecting this last movie to round out his "early years."

Nolan may well have said that he has no plans to do another one after this. But the thing is... Nolan's said all along that he had no plans to do more after the one he was working on. If you take him at his word, he had no particular intent to do TDK after BB, and no intent to do DKR after TDK. The thing about Chris Nolan is that he doesn't commit himself to anything too far out in front of the immediate future that he can realistically plan for. He would never, for example, commit himself to a multi-picture franchise deal because he wouldn't want to get stuck having to make a movie he had no interest in. So he has signed to each Batman film individually because he doesn't want to get handcuffed to it. He wants the freedom to be able to walk away whenever he feels that it's time. Will it be time after this movie? Possibly. I wouldn't bet against it. But I don't think I'd necessarily put money on it, either.

I mean we all know that WB wants to use DC properties to fill the void that's about to be left by Harry Potter. They clearly expect Green Lantern to kick everyone's ass, they have a Bruce Timm animated series in production, they're already in Prep on GL2... that's a lot of money invested in a film that isn't even out yet. They must be REALLY confident in that film. I imagine they're going to be very cautious with Superman after the "Returns" debacle. But it's no accident that Nolan is "godfathering" that film. Or indeed that they went to Zack Snyder to direct. Snyder probably directs super-powered battles in his sleep and wakes up sticky in the morning. Yeah, sorry for that mental image. And Nolan? Nolan is probably WB's favorite man on the planet after the success of TDK.

Let me be perfectly clear here: Batman is WB's second-oldest Superhero franchise, and he has been a moneymaker for them pretty much since 1989. Even when they ruined the films in the late 90's, they still had the Animated Series and several direct-to-video animated films. I don't think WB will abandon Batman just because they have some "new" Superheroes to play with. When the Batman well was about to dry up, who came in and got her producing black gold again? Chris Nolan. Who gave WB their highest grossing film of all-time and one of the highest-grossing films in cinema history? Chris Nolan. So I fully expect WB to do whatever they can to get Chris coming back to the well with them as many times as they can.

Chris does love his art films - and that's what Inception is, really, a big-budget art film - but you don't get funding on something like that unless you're a proven maestro. TDK basically paid for Inception. So, while Nolan is not a sellout or a director of schlocky blockbusters, he DOES have an interest in making these big films as long as they stay interesting to him.

So you can bet if Batman 3 makes the big money, WB will be there saying "please Chris, come back. Please. Here's a gigantic pile of money."

"You can't really buy me that way, fellas."

"Here's a small army of hookers."

"Yeah...not really what I'm about."

"Here's a shitpile of vests."

"SOLD!"

And the title supports this as well.

And HOW.

Uhh...not sure where you are coming from or why you are insulting my intelligence. I'm well aware that Neeson was Ra's and Watanabe was an imposter and that there was no real supernatural element. I've been aware of that since the first time I watched Batman Begins. That was the point of my post. If Ra's truly died, maybe he can still be immortal because Ra's is a title that has been passed down to those deemed worthy of it through the centuries. Just because a Lazarus Pit wouldn't fit in Nolan's films doesn't mean Ra's can't be "immortal". A new Ra's could enter Gotham. Or Neeson's Ra's could have simply survived.

Yeah, I didn't say that you didn't get the lack of supernatural element. What I'm saying is, Ra's al Ghul is NOT a title. It's Liam Neeson. Period. There is no "passing down of the name." There's just an intense madman with a horde of badass ninja wanting to blow up corrupt governments.

Now... I know what you'll say. "He said that the League of Shadows has been active for centuries... since there's no supernatural element it HAS to be a title that's passed down."

Eh. I disagree. Just because the League of Shadows has existed that long, doesn't mean that Ra's was always their leader. And another thing... I'm not sure you're giving Nolan enough credit. While he clearly likes to stay clear of the supernatural element, he respects the source material enough not to take a dump on it... nothing in the film said that Ra's ISN'T immortal. It's just that nothing said he is. It was kind of a neat side-step on Nolan's part.

 

[RustyCage]

Fantastic post, Sushi.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Sushi's back...? Oh my God, Sushi's back! Welcome, man! Now all we need is some StorminNorman and the Hype is complete!

Thanks Gianakin. Man, if we can find Norm I'LL be complete. I miss that guy.

Alfred, Gordon, Fox... that's all I took it as.

Not saying you're wrong, hatebox, but the point of this thread is to show a little imagination. You know how, when you were a kid, you used to populate your Christmas list with a bunch of expensive stuff you knew you'd NEVER get, a couple of logistical impossibilities, and then a few things you knew you might be able to score? Same deal here. We all know Nolan's not likely to do any of this stuff, but we can dream, can't we?

I hope Reese comes back.

With his sexy little buttocks.

CONNIE!!! Good to see you, sir.

As much as I want to see the story move forward, I would love to see Ra's again, though I kind of doubt it. "I jumped out of the train at the last second is compelling." I'd expect to see Talia rather than Ra's. She could basically fill a similar role that he did.

Hello, The Guard.

I agree with everything you said there, but I do feel that Talia is more interesting in some respects with Ra's still in the picture, because of the conflict inherent in her relationship with her father and her relationship with Bruce. Though I suspect that Ra's doesn't actually need to be in the film - or even alive - for his presence to be felt, if Talia is understood to have loved and respected her father. Still don't think it would be the best use of Talia, though.

I don't think we're going to see Two-Face again, but if we do, it could as simple as "No one checked for a pulse" and they spirited him away. I think it's actually a fairly logical.

I agree completely. Two-Face being dead was heavily implied, but was never explicitly stated to the audience. Intentional or not, it leaves a door for Goyer and the Nolans to open if they want to.

I've said this elsewhere, but I wouldn't hate seeing Scarecrow return to work with Hugo Strange.

I'm fairly certain I would enjoy the HELL out of that.

What would be the point of bringing back Falcone? He's too far gone in the head and it's too late to give him some kind of antidote. Unless people want him in the film just to watch him drool and say "Scarecrow" over and over, he would add nothing to the story.

Had a good laugh over this one. t:

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Fantastic post, Sushi.

Thanks, Rusty.

 

[Dark Knight]

A bit off topic, but I have been seeing some kick ass Scarecrow costumes this Halloween and I am quite disappointed that the WB's marketing and apparel departments never came out with a really creepy Scarecrow outfit from Nolans Bat films.

One thing I was slightly disappointed in also in TDK, was in the beginning when Scarecrow sprayed the fear toxin on the mob hoodlum and we didn't some freakishly scary and eerie images of what he was hallucinating.

If Scarecrow makes it back for TDKR, I want to see at least two disturbingly eerie and scary visual images when he uses the fear toxin this time around.

 

[Avengers-Report]

A bit off topic, but I have been seeing some kick ass Scarecrow costumes this Halloween and I am quite disappointed that the WB's marketing and apparel departments never came out with a really creepy Scarecrow outfit from Nolans Bat films.

One thing I was slightly disappointed in also in TDK, was in the beginning when Scarecrow sprayed the fear toxin on the mob hoodlum and we didn't some freakishly scary and eerie images of what he was hallucinating.

If Scarecrow makes it back for TDKR, I want to see at least two disturbingly eerie and scary visual images when he uses the fear toxin thsi time around.

As long as the movie doesn't shift towards focusing on fear as a theme then I would be fine with that.

 

[Two-Face]

"We'll use many of the same characters as we have all along..."

A quote many of you know from the recent article about DKR. It got me thinking about the possibilities of which characters could return for the third movie. Now, odds are, Nolan simply meant we'll be seeing the same general cast that we've gotten the past two movies: Bruce Wayne, Alfred, Gordon, Lucius Fox, possibly a scarecrow cameo or something like that.

However, what if Nolan was actually indicating that the next major villain (or one of the major characters) is someone we've already been introduced to? Odds are this isn't the case, but I figured why not have some fun speculating right?

So, the most probable would be:

1.) Ra's. His death is the easiest to explain away. The man was on a speeding train that was half blown open before it crashed. He could have easily jumped out. Best case scenario, he would have broken both legs and really messed himself up, but it's certainly possible he survived in the Nolan-verse. If Ra's came back it would be safe to assume the big guy would be real p.o'ed at Bruce for ruining his last plan, (and probably having to f-himself up jumping out of a Train) and Ra's could really mess with Bruce's life given how hectic things will be with Batman now an outlaw.

2.) Two-Face. This one is harder to work though. For all intensive purposes, Two-Face is dead as a doornail in the Nolan-verse. It would be tricky to work out a way to have him still be alive and kicking without it seeming contrived. However, it could be possible that Gordon found a way to hide Harvey away, telling the public he's dead. Gordon could be trying to rehabilitate him and, once Harvey's better, bring him back in a similar fashion that Gordon returned from the "dead" in TDK.

3.)Pseudo-Two-Face. This one's a little more complicated, but follow me here. Whoever the new big baddie is in TDKR, they could somehow find out Gordon and Bruce's cover up. And then, to scare both Bats and Gordon, the new villain starts killing people/committing crimes and leaving clues (that only Bats and Gordon would recognize) to indicate that Dent is the one committing the crime. The villain could also have removed Dent's body from his grave, and killed everyone involved in burying the body (coroner, ect. ect) to further the illusion. A nice old fashioned "Looks like the dead guy's back, but he's really not!" Switchero.

4.) Smaller characters get beefed up roles/ Name association. Basically, a character we've seen before like Scarecrow or Zsaz return in a slightly bigger fashion. Or characters associated with characters we're familiar with enter the picture, a la Talia.

What do you guys think?

I could see these working in TDKR and I wanna see Two-Face back.

 

[RustyCage]

If Scarecrow makes it back for TDKR, I want to see at least two disturbingly eerie and scary visual images when he uses the fear toxin thsi time around.

If Black Mask is in, perhaps he can employ Scarecrow to heighten the effects of his torture methods. Maybe the victims' hallucinations are where we see his mask become the black skull, rather than having that be his normal mask.

I say this because a lot of people have expressed that they'd rather he have something other than a skull for a mask (for various reasons). But if the above were the case, both sides can have what they wanted, in an interesting way. It would also be a more believable use of the skull, since his mask is something he carved from a coffin after all. Doubt he's a master wittler of that level. Sounds like a Nolan'y solution to me anyway.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

A bit off topic, but I have been seeing some kick ass Scarecrow costumes this Halloween and I am quite disappointed that the WB's marketing and apparel departments never came out with a really creepy Scarecrow outfit from Nolans Bat films.

One thing I was slightly disappointed in also in TDK, was in the beginning when Scarecrow sprayed the fear toxin on the mob hoodlum and we didn't some freakishly scary and eerie images of what he was hallucinating.

If Scarecrow makes it back for TDKR, I want to see at least two disturbingly eerie and scary visual images when he uses the fear toxin thsi time around.

As long as the movie doesn't shift towards focusing on fear as a theme then I would be fine with that.

That right there is probably the EXACT reason they didn't go all "Phase 2" in TDK.

That and the fact that TDK was already a very long movie and there wasn't time to get into things that didn't contribute to the larger story.

 

[Mister H.]

While I agree that it's unlikely that Lazarus pits exist in the Nolanverse, there are too many good ways to bring Liam back since we never saw Ra's' body. It may require a suspension of disbelief but I don't think it has to cross into X-Files territory in order to work. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir here...



Nolan may well have said that he has no plans to do another one after this. But the thing is... Nolan's said all along that he had no plans to do more after the one he was working on. If you take him at his word, he had no particular intent to do TDK after BB, and no intent to do DKR after TDK. The thing about Chris Nolan is that he doesn't commit himself to anything too far out in front of the immediate future that he can realistically plan for. He would never, for example, commit himself to a multi-picture franchise deal because he wouldn't want to get stuck having to make a movie he had no interest in. So he has signed to each Batman film individually because he doesn't want to get handcuffed to it. He wants the freedom to be able to walk away whenever he feels that it's time. Will it be time after this movie? Possibly. I wouldn't bet against it. But I don't think I'd necessarily put money on it, either.

I mean we all know that WB wants to use DC properties to fill the void that's about to be left by Harry Potter. They clearly expect Green Lantern to kick everyone's ass, they have a Bruce Timm animated series in production, they're already in Prep on GL2... that's a lot of money invested in a film that isn't even out yet. They must be REALLY confident in that film. I imagine they're going to be very cautious with Superman after the "Returns" debacle. But it's no accident that Nolan is "godfathering" that film. Or indeed that they went to Zack Snyder to direct. Snyder probably directs super-powered battles in his sleep and wakes up sticky in the morning. Yeah, sorry for that mental image. And Nolan? Nolan is probably WB's favorite man on the planet after the success of TDK.

Let me be perfectly clear here: Batman is WB's second-oldest Superhero franchise, and he has been a moneymaker for them pretty much since 1989. Even when they ruined the films in the late 90's, they still had the Animated Series and several direct-to-video animated films. I don't think WB will abandon Batman just because they have some "new" Superheroes to play with. When the Batman well was about to dry up, who came in and got her producing black gold again? Chris Nolan. Who gave WB their highest grossing film of all-time and one of the highest-grossing films in cinema history? Chris Nolan. So I fully expect WB to do whatever they can to get Chris coming back to the well with them as many times as they can.

Chris does love his art films - and that's what Inception is, really, a big-budget art film - but you don't get funding on something like that unless you're a proven maestro. TDK basically paid for Inception. So, while Nolan is not a sellout or a director of schlocky blockbusters, he DOES have an interest in making these big films as long as they stay interesting to him.

So you can bet if Batman 3 makes the big money, WB will be there saying "please Chris, come back. Please. Here's a gigantic pile of money."

"You can't really buy me that way, fellas."

"Here's a small army of hookers."

"Yeah...not really what I'm about."

"Here's a shitpile of vests."

"SOLD!"



And HOW.



Yeah, I didn't say that you didn't get the lack of supernatural element. What I'm saying is, Ra's al Ghul is NOT a title. It's Liam Neeson. Period. There is no "passing down of the name." There's just an intense madman with a horde of badass ninja wanting to blow up corrupt governments.

Now... I know what you'll say. "He said that the League of Shadows has been active for centuries... since there's no supernatural element it HAS to be a title that's passed down."

Eh. I disagree. Just because the League of Shadows has existed that long, doesn't mean that Ra's was always their leader. And another thing... I'm not sure you're giving Nolan enough credit. While he clearly likes to stay clear of the supernatural element, he respects the source material enough not to take a dump on it... nothing in the film said that Ra's ISN'T immortal. It's just that nothing said he is. It was kind of a neat side-step on Nolan's part.

Yes, it was. But nowhere in the film was it stated that Neeson was the only Ra's either. You are pretending that your opinion (which may very well be correct) is a fact. But it isn't. I think we are bickering a bit over things that aren't important though, as we seem to agree that Ra's was a badass character in Batman Begins and that we would have no qualms about him returning in the next installment.

 

[The Demon's Head]

Does anyone else think the reason they're keeping the villain's identity so close to the chest is because it's Two-Face? After all, Batman survived the same fall, and no one checked Dent's pulse.

I'm just saying..

 

[Figs]

Does anyone else think the reason they're keeping the villain's identity so close to the chest is because it's Two-Face? After all, Batman survived the same fall, and no one checked Dent's pulse.

I'm just saying..

Hahaha! While I'm not a believer that Two Face is still alive I happened to watch TDK last night and said the same thing to my gf.

 

[Fenrir]

Scarecrow and Hugo Strange working together? Poor Batman's become so sick he needs two doctors to look after him.

 

[RustyCage]

Scarecrow and Hugo Strange working together? Poor Batman's become so sick he needs two doctors to look after him.

They've worked together before.

I won't spoil what happens, but here's the cover:

Spoiler

Look who else is on it!

 

[Figs]

With them saying they'll use many of the same characters and they want to put an end to the series connecting everything that's come before this final film. I was wondering if the Falafel guy will return. t:

Yes, I'm bringing it back.

 

[RustyCage]

With them saying they'll use many of the same characters and they want to put an end to the series connecting everything that's come before this final film. I was wondering if the Falafel guy will return. t:

Yes, I'm bringing it back.

Yeah, poor Falafel guy deserves it. He does have kids to feed. I'm sure Nolan is kind enough to oblige him in a paycheck for returning.

 

[Boom]

Does anyone else think the reason they're keeping the villain's identity so close to the chest is because it's Two-Face? After all, Batman survived the same fall, and no one checked Dent's pulse.

I'm just saying..

If Gordon told the cops that Batman was responsible for Dent's death, the warehouse would have become a crime scene. They would have examined the body, and then take it to for an autopsy. They wouldn't have just left the body there. And they held a press conference for Dent the next day, in which Gordon makes it clear that he is dead.

You really think, in all that time, not one person would have found him to be alive?

Dent is dead.

 

[Dark Knight]

Hahaha! While I'm not a believer that Two Face is still alive I happened to watch TDK last night and said the same thing to my gf.

I agree. Ever since the end of TDK....there could be a plethora of possibilities.

Two Face could wind up being the one who is killing off mob bosses and we may be lead to believe it is Hardys character until the end?

Doubt it happens so just sayin....

 

[Commodore Schmidlapp]

Yeah, poor Falafel guy deserves it. He does have kids to feed. I'm sure Nolan is kind enough to oblige him in a paycheck for returning.

Plus, if they bring Bullock in, he's a good cop, he'll pay for his falafel.

 

[RustyCage]

Plus, if they bring Bullock in, he's a good cop, he'll pay for his falafel.

And finally end the comparisons between him and Flass. You, sir, are a genius.

 

[protoctista]

I don't want to pass sweeping condemnation but...

Anyone who thinks Ra's is coming back is INSANE. Rabid, elbow-gnawing, straight-jacket-wrenching, frothing, spitting, INSANE. An absolute live-hamster eating LUNATIC.

And I will demonstrate this fact beyond any shadow of a doubt in the following lecture. Take notes.













So, knowing as we do that Ras's body is crushed beneath hundreds of tonnes of steel and death speeding directly into concrete... We THEN see him:

Immolated as the sliding train SETS ON FIRE...


Annihilated in a FIREBALL...


It SLAMS into at least 4 structural concrete pillars...


It hits a car; which EXPLODES...


The CEILING COLLAPSES onto exactly unto the spot where Ras's immolated, crushed and disintegrated body is....




Think we're done? No. The body EXPLODES AGAIN. THREE TIMES.













Please dont make me do this for Harvey Dent.