What do they mean 'X3 has no heart'??

[X-Maniac]

Okay, I haven't seen it yet.. but I don't understand the comments in reviews about 'no heart.'...

We know we see:
1) Jean's emotional conflict with herself, Scott, Wolverine and Xavier, begging to be helped/killed
2) Scott emotions - love, grief, anger, shock
3) Wolverine's emotions - love, lust, anger, shock, having to do something terrible but necessary
4) Rogue's dilemma over the cure, over the Bobby/Kitty flirtation
5) Storm's voice over the cure, that they aren't a disease, that she is driven to fight...
6) Magneto's anger, driven to extreme measures
7) Xavier's anguish against Jean

How does this add to up to 'no heart'?

Characters like Storm, Jean and Magneto are more driven than they have ever been in X1 and X2; Xavier and Jean face their responsibilities more than ever before...

This just doesn't sound like 'no heart'...

Are people mistaking Singer's slower pace and one-on-one small action sequences for 'heart'? Are reviewers so dazzled by the action that they don't see the driving forces behind it?

I will know for myself in a day or so.

 

[Maze]

ALL those elements are there , and there are very good moment that are rather touching..But Imo the problem is that everything happen very very fast , that you jump from one event to another ,that there are too much things , and that at the end some (very good) subplots are under develloped.

Still a nice (and sometimes touching yep ) movie

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Have you ever seen Lawrence of Arabia? Bridge Over the River Kwai? Imagine those films with the 30 mins of cooking Sir Alec did or if you cut out half of Lawrence’s walks through the desert.

You need to build to something for it to matter. You need to give everything on screen character. Something that makes it mean something. Jean sitting down crying doesn't work when there is no reason to care that she is doing it.

Just watch The Fellowship of the Ring. Cut off the first 45 mins of that film and it loses its meaning. You need to see the real Frodo before you see what the ring does to him. You need to see Gandalf and Bilbo living without fear of war. It is what makes those emotional scenes emotion.

That is what they seem to have forgotten here. And quite frankly i will take a one on one beatdown over a 1,000 mutant smackdown as long as it comes with a compelling story. For that exact reason The Empire Strikes Back royally destorys Attack of the Clones.

 

[WarBlade]

How does this add to up to 'no heart'?

Because the movie presents those things like someone showing someone else something about as fascinating to person B as a a piece of lint. Then it peels away to some other random scene, thus snuffing out the potentially emotional content in a heartbeat.

 

[sidkumar]

Okay, I haven't seen it yet.. but I don't understand the comments in reviews about 'no heart.'...

We know we see:
1) Jean's emotional conflict with herself, Scott, Wolverine and Xavier, begging to be helped/killed
2) Scott emotions - love, grief, anger, shock
3) Wolverine's emotions - love, lust, anger, shock, having to do something terrible but necessary
4) Rogue's dilemma over the cure, over the Bobby/Kitty flirtation
5) Storm's voice over the cure, that they aren't a disease, that she is driven to fight...
6) Magneto's anger, driven to extreme measures
7) Xavier's anguish against Jean

How does this add to up to 'no heart'?

Characters like Storm, Jean and Magneto are more driven than they have ever been in X1 and X2; Xavier and Jean face their responsibilities more than ever before...

This just doesn't sound like 'no heart'...

Are people mistaking Singer's slower pace and one-on-one small action sequences for 'heart'? Are reviewers so dazzled by the action that they don't see the driving forces behind it?

I will know for myself in a day or so.

Take points 2, 4, 5 and 6
There isn't much more in the movie than there is in the trailer.
And there should be a LOT more because this is a movie NOT a trailer.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

How does this add to up to 'no heart'?

It depends on how it's delivered. The movie may have not given the audience much of a chance to care about the characters with its rapid pace.

 

[X-Maniac]

Do you think the intention was for this to be the climax to X1 and X2, the third act of a story, and that therefore they thought the story arc had to reach a crescendo, that we knew the characters already?

Does the movie work better seen directly after rewatching X1 and X2?

Should we expect to have to do that? Or should it stand alone? Or did it just need a gentler beginning?

 

[Maze]

Do you think the intention was for this to be the climax to X1 and X2, the third act of a story, and that therefore they thought the story arc had to reach a crescendo, that we knew the characters already?

Does the movie work better seen directly after rewatching X1 and X2?

Should we expect to have to do that? Or should it stand alone? Or did it just need a gentler beginning?

Well i think that was the intention , but the problem is that there so many new elements (the cure , phoenix) that it need to be develloped so yes it needed imo a "gentler" beginning.

after that imo avoid at all cost to see X1 or X2 before , the movie is good on its own merits , but in seeing X2 (even X1 ) in comparing it to X3 the experience imo will not be as good.

 

[JokerNick]

Well i think that was the intention , but the problem is that there so many new elements (the cure , phoenix) that it need to be develloped so yes it needed imo a "gentler" beginning.

after that imo avoid at all cost to see X1 or X2 before , the movie is good on its own merits , but in seeing X2 (even X1 ) in comparing it to X3 the experience imo will not be as good.

X3 just lacked the depth that x2 had, it was too faced paced, and it had to many dumb characters

 

[Maze]

X3 just lacked the depth that x2 had, it was too faced paced, and it had to many dumb characters

well imo Juggernaut especially is dumb and cheesy (i even prefer sabertoth ! )..Rogue is kind of wasted, but a lot of characters have some interesting characters traits , but that is never realy explored .

you've seen it nick?

 

[crappymovie]

I've seen the film, and I think it's major problem was that it never followed through with any of the "emotional" plotlines. Everything seemed to be thrown in just to make the film seem more like a drama-action film. The film didn't have any sense of reality really: because it was so short, people weren't able to grieve, it was difficult to interpret Phoenix's emotions, and characters were underdeveloped (Rogue fans will be extremely disappointed....she is nothing more then an extended cameo, and her final conclusion was just a throwaway.) I also thought the deaths cheapened the entire movie: not because of fan complaints (Cyclops, etc.) but because they were just throwaway deaths. They had no build up to the moment it was just, Kiss, now dead. I liken it to if Storm had been hit by a stray lightning bolt. It may be shocking etc., but unless this plotline is followed up, it's just a meaningless death.

 

[JokerNick]

well imo Juggernaut especially is dumb and cheesy (i even prefer sabertoth ! )..Rogue is kind of wasted, but a lot of characters have some interesting characters traits , but that is never realy explored .

you've seen it nick?

yep, monday night

here's my review

http://superherohype.com/forums/show...19#post8921919

well, after seeing x3, which I really did enjoy, but feel it is the weakest of the trilogy, I could notice a difference between this one and singer's enteries, while x3 did look like a singer movie most of the time, it honestly felt like it was missing something, I just feel like Fox was to busy trying to copy the look of singer's movies but they forgot to copy how it made you feel. I enjoyed the action a lot, but I wish they could have added anothe 40 minutes to the film, give some sub characters some time to shine, so many characters were pointless, and now I know why the didn't bring Gambit into the story, if the did, he would have had a thankless cameo or small role like Quils, Pyslocke or many other of the brotherhood members. Atleast in the x2, when they inroduced a character such as Nightcrawler, he was more then just a pawn,unlike Juggs and Multiple Man, they felt merey like one trick pony, side note too, Juggs muscle suite was very very annoying..... Also the Rogue/Ice-Man relationship really felt forced this time
what did I like, I liked wolverine, I know cyke fans will hang me for this, but I think Hugh did a good job, as ussual, with the logan character. Halle had more to do this time, but in the end, her peformance was forgettable IMO. Ian and patrick were both outstanding, I could never picture anyone else playing there roles. Famke did good when the time called for it, she had basically a thankless role the majority of the time, just being a trophy next to Magneto, towards the end though, when she turns it on, she goes nuts, and I really enjoyed seeing that, since she is the "dark phoenix", I just wish she had more to do in the movie then just stand around for much of the time. Angel was good in his scenes, but he had 10 minutes of screen time IMO, maybe a few more, but not much. Beast was great, I thought his makeup was good and I'm glad to see that he had some decent action scenes.
I would have done without the cure darts tho, I thought that was a little lame, I also think that a certain fan fav on these boards was treated unfarely, after their death, he gets barely a mention, and basically it seems like no one cares, I think that right there was Fox giving the finger to Mr M., the killed him off, then made it clear to no one really gave a crap, and i think that was a message to him from fox, IMO


oooppps, sorry for the review, I can't start any threads on here for another week, so, yeah!!!

 

[Rac]

Okay, I haven't seen it yet.. but I don't understand the comments in reviews about 'no heart.'...

We know we see:
1) Jean's emotional conflict with herself, Scott, Wolverine and Xavier, begging to be helped/killed
2) Scott emotions - love, grief, anger, shock
3) Wolverine's emotions - love, lust, anger, shock, having to do something terrible but necessary
4) Rogue's dilemma over the cure, over the Bobby/Kitty flirtation
5) Storm's voice over the cure, that they aren't a disease, that she is driven to fight...
6) Magneto's anger, driven to extreme measures
7) Xavier's anguish against Jean

How does this add to up to 'no heart'?

Characters like Storm, Jean and Magneto are more driven than they have ever been in X1 and X2; Xavier and Jean face their responsibilities more than ever before...

This just doesn't sound like 'no heart'...

Are people mistaking Singer's slower pace and one-on-one small action sequences for 'heart'? Are reviewers so dazzled by the action that they don't see the driving forces behind it?

I will know for myself in a day or so.

You'll understand when you see it. Wolverine is the only one who is sorry for Scott's death. Rogue issue is not adressed at all. She just goes to the cure line and in the end of the movie she is cured. Magneto isn't angry.

 

[Maze]

yep, monday night

here's my review

http://superherohype.com/forums/show...19#post8921919

well, after seeing x3, which I really did enjoy, but feel it is the weakest of the trilogy, I could notice a difference between this one and singer's enteries, while x3 did look like a singer movie most of the time, it honestly felt like it was missing something, I just feel like Fox was to busy trying to copy the look of singer's movies but they forgot to copy how it made you feel. I enjoyed the action a lot, but I wish they could have added anothe 40 minutes to the film, give some sub characters some time to shine, so many characters were pointless, and now I know why the didn't bring Gambit into the story, if the did, he would have had a thankless cameo or small role like Quils, Pyslocke or many other of the brotherhood members. Atleast in the x2, when they inroduced a character such as Nightcrawler, he was more then just a pawn,unlike Juggs and Multiple Man, they felt merey like one trick pony, side note too, Juggs muscle suite was very very annoying..... Also the Rogue/Ice-Man relationship really felt forced this time
what did I like, I liked wolverine, I know cyke fans will hang me for this, but I think Hugh did a good job, as ussual, with the logan character. Halle had more to do this time, but in the end, her peformance was forgettable IMO. Ian and patrick were both outstanding, I could never picture anyone else playing there roles. Famke did good when the time called for it, she had basically a thankless role the majority of the time, just being a trophy next to Magneto, towards the end though, when she turns it on, she goes nuts, and I really enjoyed seeing that, since she is the "dark phoenix", I just wish she had more to do in the movie then just stand around for much of the time. Angel was good in his scenes, but he had 10 minutes of screen time IMO, maybe a few more, but not much. Beast was great, I thought his makeup was good and I'm glad to see that he had some decent action scenes.
I would have done without the cure darts tho, I thought that was a little lame, I also think that a certain fan fav on these boards was treated unfarely, after their death, he gets barely a mention, and basically it seems like no one cares, I think that right there was Fox giving the finger to Mr M., the killed him off, then made it clear to no one really gave a crap, and i think that was a message to him from fox, IMO


oooppps, sorry for the review, I can't start any threads on here for another week, so, yeah!!!

Well nice review , i agree with most of it .even if for me Ian was not at the top of his game..good yep , but sometimes he overdo it imo ..now he was not helped by a character the is written in black and white imo..And i thought that Famke did great with little. Very subtle imo.She bought some emotionnal weight.

Last thing personnaly i liked (especially conceptually) the cure dart .. some of the stuff was good and personnaly (but really that may be me ) i felt ( a little )for the victims of the cure during the battle..What is disapointing imo is that there is not a lot of buildup here imo(the political stuff is very lame and cliched imo)..it could have been much more ..much more dealing in grey area.

 

[XCharlieX]

lol if one cant understand why reviewers are saying it has lack of depth by now... man.

PACING.. thats all ill say. Pacing can strip the film of the impact. Even if you wrote the intelligent ideas in it technically, dont mess with it by trying to soup it up. Its like playing with fire is what I always said.

 

[LadyVader]

why do I feel the movie has no heart?
First and foremost because of the ease with which Cyclops and Professor X were disposed of. Wooosh. All gone. And that's no way to treat two characters who have been proeminent not only in the comic books for the past 40 years, but also in the movies.
Furthermore, it is obviously a movie intended to entertain non-fans, and fans who have spent 40 years reading the comics should be target audience. They should be the heart.
I didn't get any feeling of closeness between the kids in the mansion. Not even between Rogue and Iceman, and they're supposed to be a couple. I got a little bit of that out of Iceman and Kitty but in all honesty, the girl looked 14! How could Rogue think she was a rival? And for that matter, Rogue gets the cure, sees Iceman and what do they do?
They hug!
Not even a passionate kiss. They HUG! BLEAH!

Even so, there were a few warm moment in the movie. The biggest emotional moment for me was in the begining with the kid playing a young Warren trying to cut out his wings. MAN, that kid could act! And also Beast seeing his normal human hand. Oh golly. That was sweet.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

pfft I couldn't give a rats ass about the Rogue/Iceman relationship. It's probably better off that they had little screentime together

 

[Super Flight]

X3 has no heart if cyclopse really does die and no one in the movies cares... i MEAN Thats ALONE is heartless!! PoOr Cyclopse!! getting screwed over once again!

 

[X-Maniac]

X3 has no heart if cyclopse really does die and no one in the movies cares... i MEAN Thats ALONE is heartless!! PoOr Cyclopse!! getting screwed over once again!

Shhhh! We've hear enough of your insane Cyclops ranting in every single thread on here. If if bothers you so much, don't go to see the movie, exit this site and sob under your duvet for a while. We'll feel better even if you don't!

You are almost getting as bad as Kurosawa, and that's a terrible depth for a person to sink to!

 

[taintedFB]

I think those moments are all rushed.

I also think Scott's death has had a bigger impact on the rest of the movie than anyone realizes. He and Jean were the most emotional human characters in the franchise. They were REAL.

Everyone else comes off rather cold and Jean is reduced to being the omnipotent Phoenix but without Scott, even Jean's emotions seem forced onto Logan though clearly from the "where's Scott" clip she is beyond devastated over Scott's death.

I am glad that the Alkali Lake scene isn't as brief as we thought.

 

[FieryBalrog]

You've been answered in spades. Simply slapping tear-jerking scenes together doesn't make an emotional film. It makes a slapped together mess. Pacing is important, and dialogue.

 

[all_empty]

I saw the movie with fans and non-fans alike.

Everyone scoffed at how emotional Wolverine was - the first thing one casual fan noted to me was "Wolverine doesn't cry!"

In my opinion, there were plenty of emotionally heavy scenes Magneto's/Storm/Wolverine's reaction to the professor's death, Storm's eulogy, Wolverine's reaction to killing Jean, but the sum felt like less than the parts.

The final mansion scene where they are looking at the tombstones of the three X-men seemed a little trite and optimistic, but that's probably because they want to end on a high note.

To me, the movie was more action than "heart." That's not a bad thing, just not as complex and fulfilling experience as X-2 was.

 

[The Batman]

Fiery got it.

Just because someone is crying like a baby, it dont make it emotional. its just someone crying like a baby.

 

[X-Maniac]

You've been answered in spades. Simply slapping tear-jerking scenes together doesn't make an emotional film. It makes a slapped together mess. Pacing is important, and dialogue.

But that is only YOUR opinion. And, if I'm not mistaken, you have been very vocal over the Cyclops situation, thus that is possibly colouring your perception of the movie as a whole. Which is probably not a very sensible thing.

 

[Cyclops]

Why not? If they callously killed off Storm, would that not color YOUR perception of the movie as a whole?

Tell the truth now, it would.