What do they mean 'X3 has no heart'??

[X-Maniac]

To me, the movie was more action than "heart." That's not a bad thing, just not as complex and fulfilling experience as X-2 was.

But where was the heart in X2? Cyclops and Xavier captured for most of the movie, Storm bobbing around in the background and having bizarrely meaningless conversations with Nightcrawler, Nightcrawler bamfing through the Whitehouse, William Stryker and Jason, Wolverine fighting Deathstrike without any mention of her comicbook history.

Yes, the final Jean sacrifice had 'heart'... but it was mostly absent everywhere else.

Since when did 'slower pace = heart.' I've never come across that correlation before...

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Shhhh! We've hear enough of your insane Cyclops ranting in every single thread on here. If if bothers you so much, don't go to see the movie, exit this site and sob under your duvet for a while. We'll feel better even if you don't!

You are almost getting as bad as Kurosawa, and that's a terrible depth for a person to sink to!

I agree...


want some cheese with that whine?


I feel bad enough as it is already and I don't want my X-perience ruined because of this and because of that.

its scary.

 

[JokerNick]

But where was the heart in X2? Cyclops and Xavier captured for most of the movie, Storm bobbing around in the background and having bizarrely meaningless conversations with Nightcrawler, Nightcrawler bamfing through the Whitehouse, William Stryker and Jason, Wolverine fighting Deathstrike without any mention of her comicbook history.

Yes, the final Jean sacrifice had 'heart'... but it was mostly absent everywhere else.

Since when did 'slower pace = heart.' I've never come across that correlation before...

I think x2 had heart, in the way it was made.... you can tell Singer was passionate when making it

 

[LadyVader]

It's not the pace. it's the moments and the characters in those moments!
In X2 we had Bobby's nasty family, Magneto's glass prison, Stryker whom we all loved to hate. We even had that moment where Xavier is standing up and you can see a tear, and then Deathstrike with that look at the end before she dies...
And nightcrawler was a damn lovable character!

We have all these moments in which we trully have a conection with the characters. It's not overly emotional because it's still an action movie, but we are involved. Singer is just better at that then Ratner.

 

[FieryBalrog]

But that is only YOUR opinion. And, if I'm not mistaken, you have been very vocal over the Cyclops situation, thus that is possibly colouring your perception of the movie as a whole. Which is probably not a very sensible thing.

a) I've not been very vocal about the Cyclops situation, I in fact didnt mention it at all until 2-3 weeks ago, because until then I had hope for the movie (even though I knew Cyclops was going die, so it wasn't coloring my perception).

b) If they killed off Storm in a lackadasical way instead of giving her an expanded role in this movie, you would be pissed and your perception would be "colored", dont pretend it wouldnt.

c) The reason I started speaking about the mistreatment of Cyclops is because it seems to be the clearest evidence of the rushed and amateur way this whole thing has been done, with no respect to the source material or mythos, stuff thrown in and butchered just for the "kewl" factor. But its not the only evidence.


It seems to be now just one more piece in the butchering of the Phoenix saga, which is what I am a fan of, my favorite comic storyline, and along with that it seems to be a rushed mess, on its own terms...

What has colored my perception more is the short runtime, the messed production schedule, the clumsy and amateur way Fox handled the development of this movie, the script (not surprising, given the hacks who wrote it) and the reports of people having seen it, who say it has a ton of throwaway characters, little emotional development, mistreats many core X-men, screws over the Phoenix and her storyline...

 

[X-Maniac]

Why not? If they callously killed off Storm, would that not color YOUR perception of the movie as a whole?

Tell the truth now, it would.

I've been longing for someone to ask me this...

Okay, well.. I'd be a bit annoyed about it, I'd maybe be angry.. But the X-Men - and an X-Men movie - are about more than Storm. I had even suspected she might get cured (as the comicbook version did, with a neutraliser gun), i even thought she might get killed in a epic battle with Phoenix, and it bothered me for a while, but I didn't become as obsessively nuts as the Cyclops fans.

If Singer had been doing X3, we'd probably have Storm explained as being away in Kenya or something, but I'd still watch the movie.

There is more to the X-Men than Storm, or Cyclops. Yes, his death is far from desirable... and given that it was because of politics and availability, I feel more accepting of it than if it were creatively written into the script as some clever plot twist.

I've been over and over the story possibilities in my head. If he didn't die at that lake, he or Wolverine would have to tackle Jean later on, at the end. She couldn't live, after all she had done, surely? She couldn't sacrifice herself, as at the end of X2, as that would be a repeat. Would Cyclops be able to kill her? And then, afterwards, what would happen to his character? He left the X-Men in mourning at the start of the film - would he leave again? I think what happens seems logical when considering the parameters we are told about; the lack of mention of him later in the film is what's more disconcerting.

I get that people are angry that he is killed. It's just that there is nothing that can be done as far as X3 goes.

 

[FieryBalrog]

i even thought she might get killed in a epic battle with Phoenix, and it bothered me for a while, but I didn't become as obsessively nuts as the Cyclops fans.

Obviously, because there was no evidence she dies (and she doesnt) and there was a ton of evidence Cyke dies (and he does). You'd be just as obsessive if the AICN script report had Storm dying and then she wasnt in the promos at all and had no pics in uniform.

 

[Super Flight]

Shhhh! We've hear enough of your insane Cyclops ranting in every single thread on here. If if bothers you so much, don't go to see the movie, exit this site and sob under your duvet for a while. We'll feel better even if you don't!

You are almost getting as bad as Kurosawa, and that's a terrible depth for a person to sink to!

cyclops hater,

 

[Cyclops]

Being killed in an epic battle is one thing.

Having an unnecessary toss-away death in the beginning of the film is another entirely.

Was it necessary to kill him off to make Jean go crazy? The long and short of it is NO. What, you mean exponentially more potent telepathy and telekinetic prowess WOULDN'T drive her crazy? She was already starting to unravel in X2.

If it was Storm being callously and carelessly killed in the first half hour of the film, you would be FURIOUS.

 

[Super Flight]

Being killed in an epic battle is one thing.

Having an unnecessary toss-away death in the beginning of the film is another entirely.

Was it necessary to kill him off to make Jean go crazy? The long and short of it is NO. What, you mean exponentially more potent telepathy and telekinetic prowess WOULDN'T drive her crazy? She was already starting to unravel in X2.

If it was Storm being callously and carelessly killed in the first half hour of the film, you would be FURIOUS.

exactly... pointless deaths piss me off....expecially if its a great lovable charactor thats getting killed for no reason like cyclops

 

[X-Maniac]

aThe reason I started speaking about the mistreatment of Cyclops is because it seems to be the clearest evidence of the rushed and amateur way this whole thing has been done, with no respect to the source material or mythos, stuff thrown in and butchered just for the "kewl" factor. But its not the only evidence.

But if it was done because of studio directives, and actor availability... it had nothing to do with the 'kewl' factor or rushed/amateur production.

What is continued bitterness going to achieve? I haven't felt a strongly as many others, but I am not going to let it consume me like others on here who are becoming Dark Cyclopsfan over it.

 

[all_empty]

But where was the heart in X2? Cyclops and Xavier captured for most of the movie, Storm bobbing around in the background and having bizarrely meaningless conversations with Nightcrawler, Nightcrawler bamfing through the Whitehouse, William Stryker and Jason, Wolverine fighting Deathstrike without any mention of her comicbook history.

Yes, the final Jean sacrifice had 'heart'... but it was mostly absent everywhere else.

Since when did 'slower pace = heart.' I've never come across that correlation before...

Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. And I never said slower pace = heart.

I've seen X-2 many times, and X-3 only once, so maybe I will catch more of the nuances of the relationships in "The Last Stand" upon further viewings.

X-1 and X-2, in my opinion, play up the "team" aspect, which is what the X-Men are all about. Spoilers: Cyclops is killed way too early in the film, Jean Grey never sides with the X-Men, Colossus (as cool as he looks, could have been any other X-Man), Rogue is practically non-existant).

I think I agree with fierybalrog, the pacing does make the emotional scenes less effective. It's not that they're few and far between; rather, the action sequences are so long and so "ta da look at our FX" that the brief "emotional" scenes seem a bit like throwaways.

 

[Cyclops]

Um... yes it would...

The studio wants the movie to be as 'kewl' as possible. That's what they see as selling tickets. And they also wanted it rushed so they could have it in theatres before Superman Returns. And when you rush, you make sloppy mistakes. It's an inevitable side-effect of rushing.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

ALL those elements are there , and there are very good moment that are rather touching..But Imo the problem is that everything happen very very fast , that you jump from one event to another ,that there are too much things , and that at the end some (very good) subplots are under develloped.

Still a nice (and sometimes touching yep ) movie

It can't be any worse than the deflated feeling i got watching Godzilla: Final War. I'm very, very disappointed with how brief the Kaiju battles were in favor of the Matrixy type human storyline. Well, excluding the GINO aka Deanzilla aka Zilla battle which was and should have been brief. But how disappointed I was over powerful Kaiju like Gigan, Hedorah and Ghidorah getting beaten so easily. Yes, it's Godzilla but i would have expected those Kaiju to have put up more of a fight compared to their showa incarnations. Hell, even Heisei Ghidorah as weak as he was put up more of a fight. But I digress. I'm all for an all out mutant powers on display in this movie. It's about time!!!

 

[gap5ewl]

seriously i dont get knowles on that part of his review. every other review says this movie is very emotional and that famke nails the part of a tormented skitzo pheonix yet knowles is saying the complete opposite.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

You've been answered in spades. Simply slapping tear-jerking scenes together doesn't make an emotional film. It makes a slapped together mess. Pacing is important, and dialogue.

Ebert and Roeper didn't complain about pacing. If it was an issue and was such a big problem, you know they would've said something about it.

And it received a standing ovation at Cannes, so something was done right. We'll find out on the 26th though.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. And I never said slower pace = heart.

I've seen X-2 many times, and X-3 only once, so maybe I will catch more of the nuances of the relationships in "The Last Stand" upon further viewings.

X-1 and X-2, in my opinion, play up the "team" aspect, which is what the X-Men are all about. I think I agree with fierybalrog, the pacing does make the emotional scenes less effective. It's not that they're few and far between; rather, the action sequences are so long and so "ta da look at our FX" that the brief "emotional" scenes seem a bit like throwaways.[/COLOR]

Okay.. but surely FX have come on a thousandfold in technical possibilities since X-Men's production in 1999?!!!!! When you see many of the FX in X1 and X2, some of them are a bit cheap-looking (Magneto raising the cars in X1...a crane suddenly yanks them in the air, there is no sound effect as when he is suspending the jet in X2, they just fly upwards far too quickly!). I can understand how epic action might 'eclipse' some of the emotional stuff...but then, this is the climax of a trilogy where tensions have been building over two previous films. I'd expect a war to have massive action...We already know about many of the characters from X1 and X2, there is no need for repeated visits to Bobby's family... an iced-up Iceman is now what everyone wants!

 

[crappymovie]

And here's the one thing that X3 is missing (and countless reviews have said it...unless you ignored those comments):

It lacks any subtlety or depth. The entire film revolves around the action set pieces. This may be a good thing for the middle film in a trilogy, but a lot of people were expecting some resolution in this film. There was very little.

One more thing, I think the other films had "heart" because they were more about the CHARACTERS, and Bryan's "cerebral" (read: more complex) style of direction gave each character some sort of emotional core. Take Deathstrike's "death" at the end of X-men 2. When Wolverine stabbed her, there was that shot of her with her eyes open, to give the audience the sense that she WAS a human, and you almost felt sorry for her. Had another, less cerebral, director filmed this, she would have just fallen to the ground, maybe hissing something, to let the audience know "The good guy won, bad guy died." X-men 3 is filled with these obvious moments.

 

[RagingTempest]

Being killed in an epic battle is one thing.

Having an unnecessary toss-away death in the beginning of the film is another entirely.

Was it necessary to kill him off to make Jean go crazy? The long and short of it is NO. What, you mean exponentially more potent telepathy and telekinetic prowess WOULDN'T drive her crazy? She was already starting to unravel in X2.

If it was Storm being callously and carelessly killed in the first half hour of the film, you would be FURIOUS.

I would be extremely, but that wouldn't stop me from watching the rest of the movie!!!

 

[tonytr1687]

Ebert and Roeper didn't complain about pacing. If it was an issue and was such a big problem, you know they would've said something about it.

And it received a standing ovation at Cannes, so something was done right. We'll find out on the 26th though.

Ebert and Roeper have given two thumbs up to lots of films that have gone on to be badly recieved. Just look at Da Vinci Code. I dont think X3 will be panned as much as that film, but in the end the reviews will be mediocre at best, and X3 will go down in movie history as a general disappointment. Not Batman and Robin...but a disappointment.

 

[X-Maniac]

Ebert and Roeper have given two thumbs up to lots of films that have gone on to be badly recieved. Just look at Da Vinci Code. I dont think X3 will be panned as much as that film, but in the end the reviews will be mediocre at best, and X3 will go down in movie history as a general disappointment. Not Batman and Robin...but a disappointment.

And what are you going to do about it?

Are you going to see the movie? Are you a true fan of X-Men?

Or are you just an anti-Ratner, or pro-Singer, or anti-Fox person? I can't see many dimensions to your discussions aside from hating and negativity.

 

[crappymovie]

The film is no where near as bad as Batman & Robin....but it had the potential to be it. It has some terrible one-liners, and some of the actor's are not that great. (Halle Berry...she keeps altering the Storm character - which she intended to - but she has re-incarnated her as "Roro- the tough chick ya'll knew from the Bronx")

It will have mediocre reviews, because most reviewers agree that it has the same level of character development as X-men 1. Except that this movie's centrepiece is a tormented character and her teammates....

 

[The Batman]

why isnt he a true x-fan if he dosent go to see the movie?

 

[RagingTempest]

The film is no where near as bad as Batman & Robin....but it had the potential to be it. It has some terrible one-liners, and some of the actor's are not that great. (Halle Berry...she keeps altering the Storm character - which she intended to - but she has re-incarnated her as "Roro- the tough chick ya'll knew from the Bronx")

It will have mediocre reviews, because most reviewers agree that it has the same level of character development as X-men 1. Except that this movie's centrepiece is a tormented character and her teammates....

Well, that's one person's opinion, besides, Storm was born in New York, wasn't she!!!

 

[tonytr1687]

And here's the one thing that X3 is missing (and countless reviews have said it...unless you ignored those comments):

It lacks any subtlety or depth. The entire film revolves around the action set pieces. This may be a good thing for the middle film in a trilogy, but a lot of people were expecting some resolution in this film. There was very little.

One more thing, I think the other films had "heart" because they were more about the CHARACTERS, and Bryan's "cerebral" (read: more complex) style of direction gave each character some sort of emotional core. Take Deathstrike's "death" at the end of X-men 2. When Wolverine stabbed her, there was that shot of her with her eyes open, to give the audience the sense that she WAS a human, and you almost felt sorry for her. Had another, less cerebral, director filmed this, she would have just fallen to the ground, maybe hissing something, to let the audience know "The good guy won, bad guy died." X-men 3 is filled with these obvious moments.

Exactly. Even when dealing with smaller "henchman" characters, Singer always adds a little something something to let the audience know theres more to them than meets the eye. In X1 they had Sabretooth curiously interested in Logan's dog tags, and in X2 they had that sad look in Yuriko's eyes as she died.