what do you think of Spiderman's rogues?

[gildea]

Completely different situation. Aunt May's death was one of the best Spider-Man stories of all time. SHe's brought back and it's said she never really died. The story is now meaningless.

Again only if you want it to be.

It has no more or no less meaning than any other fictional story.

 

[The Question]

No. It has less meaning because now it wasn't really Aunt May.

 

[gildea]

In your mind maybe, but thats your choice.

 

[Guyverjay]

No, it has less meaning to YOU, get it right

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

The only way new characters will grow is if they're actually used instead of discarded after their first appearance.

Black Tarantula could beat the crap out of Peter easily, but I also said Peter could call in help or otherwise use that big brain of his to stop Black Tarantula some other way. Other heroes beat their physical superiors all the time. In fact, Peter's made a name for himself doing so.

spidey used to outsmart his more powerful foes, nowadays he just seems to get on and clobber them, he's leaving his intellectual states behind him...

i used to love the old peter who would think on his feet, all this crap now about him taking on digger and believing he can take the hulk in an all out bout, man that go me pissed...

I don't mind parker calling for help, i loved the way he got x-man to help him deal with electro, it was crazy realistic, especially how nate wanted to go all out on him but spidey was holding him back just for support and stepped up to the plate to take him out, man i love that arc.

the only problem with spidey's rogue is that they are really heavy hitters and they should be spreading to cause problem for the majority of the marvel universe but they always stay in their shell and haven't expanded into all out universal threats like doom has....

 

[Happenstance]

I love Spideys rogue gallery but I do agree that some arent used to their potential. We should be seeing them appear in other comics from the marvel universe and really causing trouble on a massive scale.

 

[Darthphere]

Anyone else think Sandman is pretty lame? I dont see why they made him a viallin for the movie.

 

[Happenstance]

I quite like Sandman, I think hes another rogue which if used to his potential could be very dangerous.

 

[Whirlysplat]

i think a good handful of them suck arse, none of them have any personality.
if you guys can ravmp them what would you do?

The best like Carrion are rarely used

- Whirly

 

[SpideyInATree]

Scorpion

I'd go back to basics with him and smarten him up, and darken his costume colors.

Also he'd work alone and become more professional like Bullseye or TaskMaster.

Read Spectacular Spider-Man Volume 1, # 215 and # 216.

Fantastic Spider-Man/Scorpion story plotted by Tom Defalco, current writer of Spider-Girl and Last Planet Standing, and art duties by Sal F'n Buscema.

Defalco, one of the very few writers, who gave Mac Gargan a damned personality. Pity...no one has done one damn thing with this story since.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

i remember when scorpion went up against ben reilly and completely beat the livin **** out of luke cage...

and **** up ben pretty good.

i loved the 'three stings and you're out' part to his tail make up, all very nice and i loved the costume as well...

 

[SpideyInATree]

My idea for taking over Spider-Man's line would basically have Spidey finding that Norman does have baby May held somewhere, fighting him, accd\identally killing him, and saving his kid. Then, he finds out that the May who's been licing with him isn't actually May. The whole "Payed a genetically altered actress thing" was complete bull****. The May we've seen over the past few years is a VERY convincing clone. A clone who's designed to self terminate in the event of Norman's death. One last screw over of Parker's life by Norman. I would then move on to give more atention to villains like The Vulture and Dr. Octopus.

Neat idea....up until the part about Aunt May really being a clone. I think it's been proven that most Spidey fans want to stay away from clones, no matter how much you or I may like them.

But the first part of your idea about Norman really having Baby May and raising her would have been a good idea, in my opinion. That should have been the premise for Sins Past. Not Gwen Stacy nailing Osborn.

 

[SpideyInATree]

i remember when scorpion went up against ben reilly and completely beat the livin **** out of luke cage...

and **** up ben pretty good.

i loved the 'three stings and you're out' part to his tail make up, all very nice and i loved the costume as well...

Yeah, I think that was a story in Spider-Man Unlimited. Scorpion freakin' OWNED Luke Cage. That was in a period of comics, even if you disliked Spidey during that period because of the "clone", where writers actually made the villains, you know, THREATS!

I like Bendis' writing sometimes but he can't write Marvel villains worth a crap. He'd probably have Luke Cage take out Scorpion like he was nothing in this day and age.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Also, I dont think theres really a right and wrong way to see a character.


For example, Electro, its fine if you want to see him as a loveable loser but you can also see him as having the potential to being a badass too and I dont care about USM so dont tell me to read that.

To me, there are three stories that define Electro as a villain. First, his origin story and first appearance in Spider-Man. Second, the Light the Night storyline from the Spider-Man title in the 90's. And the third, Millar's Marvel Knights Spider-Man run.

Those basically can put Electro in perspective, in my opinion. Especially Light the Night.

I don't think Bendis read that story when he was writing Electro in New Avengers.

 

[rigel7soldiers]

While we're on the subject, "loser" is a great word. It sums up so many of Spider-Man's enemies, in one way or another. In a good way. Like the Rhino, th Shocker, Eddie Brock, the Lizard (Well... at least he grew his arm back. He totally couldn't get a cybernetic one like everybody else), Hydro-Man, ad etceturum.

Yeah, it's like it's just a thing with them; If you're a Spider-man villain, your life sucks a whole lot sometimes. Even guys like Vermin and the Squid had totally effed up childhoods.

 

[Vanguard07]

They should bring back the Puma. He was an awesome character.

 

[SpideyInATree]

They should bring back the Puma. He was an awesome character.

You need to read Sensational Spider-Man. Like right now.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Again only if you want it to be.

It has no more or no less meaning than any other fictional story.

I think that maybe you're missing Question's point.

Amazing Spider-Man # 400 is an amazing story and a great send off for a long time character of the book. Yet, it's basically made meaningless.

Much like many fans say Amazing Spider-Man # 121 was made meaningless because of Sins Past.

Yeah, as a stand alone fictional story Amazing Spider-Man # 400 is a good story. But when it comes to the full scale of the story...it's meaningless because Aunt May is still alive.

 

[Whirlysplat]

I think that maybe you're missing Question's point.

Amazing Spider-Man # 400 is an amazing story and a great send off for a long time character of the book. Yet, it's basically made meaningless.

Much like many fans say Amazing Spider-Man # 121 was made meaningless because of Sins Past.

Yeah, as a stand alone fictional story Amazing Spider-Man # 400 is a good story. But when it comes to the full scale of the story...it's meaningless because Aunt May is still alive.

Good Post

- Whirly

 

[Vanguard07]

You need to read Sensational Spider-Man. Like right now.

Just finished reading it an hour ago actually. I got my wish. Heh. Puma ate a dog.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

But only because Jemas forced him to.

No.


John Byrne wanted Aunt May back. Howard Mackie AND the rest of the Spider-Man writers at the time brought her back (considering they wrote teh story together).

Bill Jemas wasnt even president back then.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

I think that maybe you're missing Question's point.

Amazing Spider-Man # 400 is an amazing story and a great send off for a long time character of the book. Yet, it's basically made meaningless.

Much like many fans say Amazing Spider-Man # 121 was made meaningless because of Sins Past.

Yeah, as a stand alone fictional story Amazing Spider-Man # 400 is a good story. But when it comes to the full scale of the story...it's meaningless because Aunt May is still alive.

And making the stories involving Aunt May after that meaningless is perfectly fine? The writers killed off Aunt May then because they felt she was out of steam as a character and couldnt think of much else to do with her. JMS and some other writers proved them wrong, Id say.

Granted, ASM #400 was a great story, but it would be utterly and thoroughly ******ed to retcon the retcon. It would make the overall story even worse tedious. Id rather they put her to good use instead of trying to reverse things.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

If I could revamp one Spidey rogue, it'd probably be Black Tarantula. For a guy with so much build-up and so much power, he turned tail and vanished into the night pretty quickly. Bring him back, make him a credible threat to Spider-Man for more than just Spidey's friend being the mother of his child, and let him loose.

Just a heads up, Black Turantula appears in Brubaker current run of Daredevil

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Wow. Aside from Corp, none of you understand Spider-man's villains. There is a reason why Electro holds so much back. Its because he has an inferiorty complex. Which easily makes him one of the most interesting rogues in comics. Read "Light the Night." Its a brilliant JM DeMattis story explaining why Electro is like this. He's a loveable loser. Besides, even with that mentality, he's still quite the threat. Ever read that issue where he took on She-Hulk? Hell, look at MKSM.

Bendis just doesnt understand characters he didnt create. Look at his 616 Electro and his ult. Electro. Two completely different characters. You want to see a total badass (albeit generic) Electro? Read some USM. You want to read about a classic, interesting character? Stick with the 616 interpertation.

And frankly, what would killing Norman, again, accomplish? Nothing at all. Here's an idea: just have him stay out of the comics for a while! And Question, sorry man, but your idea sounds worse than the genetically altered actress. May is back and shes become more of a character than ever. Let her be.

If theres one character at all that needs a revamp (and honestly, few Spider rogues do) its the Vulture. He has class 10 strenght. When was the last time you saw him use it?

Excellent post.



I will admit, in the past couple of years a lot of Spidey's classic villains have been taken for granted. Villains like Rhino, Vulture, and Shocker are now treated like joke villains when still have potential, as characters as well as threats to Spidey. That's one of the main reasons I appreciated Millar's run of MKSM, because he made an attempt to make some classic villains kickass (on a threat-level at least). Lots of these villains seem to me today to just be considered plot devices.

Of course, that doesnt mean make them all extremely badass and overpowering for Spidey. The Electo example is a perfect one. Another good story with him is the second Sin-Eater story (not the Death of JEan DeWolff, but the one with his return). Although Electro's only one element of the story, he had some good characterization in there. Spidey has one of the best rogues gallery in the biz, and stories like that show why.

I also like the Black Turnatula idea. He could be next Green Goblin, Hobgoblin or Venom.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

I do have to say that a rogue gallery does reflect on a hero but what does it say when the majority of spidey's rogues are idiots?

it used to mean he was most of the time a light hearted hero, wisecracking and all.

but nowadays he seems far more serious and with that means that the majority of his rogues are no longer up to the task to rivalling his new persona, so they keep re-using the only ones that can, ie the cream of the top big threats.


there are only two ways to rectify this, make spidey light again which isn't realistic now because he has greater responsibilities (would have been better if he was also a young father but what the hell). The other thing to do is to make his existing rogues more serious and not for sporadic arcs, i mean the long haul...

i mean by now, spidey should have had at least 6 of his main villains affect him in a way that he fears how far he may take it next time and it should be these six

ock
norman
electro
chameleon
vulture
scorpion


I omit venom and carnage because they are always written as constant threats and they already have enough going for them, they don't need that edge.

kraven had something over him by being the only one to kill and imitate him and bury him alive for two weeks (it would be nice if peter was a lil bit scared of closed spaces because of this, along with his vertigo, it would make for some nice character development and also bring out why he loves web slinging so much. Heck even with the master planner arc, there is more than enough reason for pete to be scared of closed spaces) but then he died so it's kinda a wasted trick.


they should definitely spread the stories around more...share the love and stop having everyone being shallow and stupid.