What happens when Marvel Run out of A-Listers?

[Dasher10]

Eventually Marvel will introduce the new generation to replace the current one:

Kamala Khan - Ms. Marvel

Miles Morales - Spider-Man

Kate Bishop - Hawkeye

Riri Williams - Iron-heart

Amadeus Cho - The Hulk

That's the Champions, not the Avengers. And those aren't new IP.

 

[Dasher10]

Why are people so down on the idea of characters being recasted and the same franchises continuing under other actors?

 

[AlluAllu]

Why are people so down on the idea of characters being recasted and the same franchises continuing under other actors?

I personally think that these characters should age in the movieverse and that their stories should come to an end eventually. And recasting Rhodey and Banner was tolerable, it happened in their second appearances. After Avengers 4, Chris Evans for example has been the Cap in 7 movies. I don't want to see anyone else play the same version of Steve Rogers.

 

[Mike Murdock]

LOL none of those mentioned are a-listers. Hell, not even Iron Man, Cap and Thor are a-listers to begin with. Only Spidey, Hulk and Wolverine can be considered a-lister.

I've made an argument that there should be a category of A minus Listers. Basically, characters people would recognize but not particularly care about. I'd argue the only true A-Listers are the same as you said - Spider-Man, Wolverine, and the Hulk. But I'd put the Fantastic Four and Captain America in the A minus category (maybe Punisher too).

The remaining characters were B-listers at best before their movies. Guardians were C-list. But, if somebody like Jessica Jones can be a popular Netflix character (and don't get me wrong, she deserves to be), Marvel doesn't have a problem. That being said, we got a lot of time. They're going to use these characters quite a bit more and then consider recasts as well. Frankly, when it comes to recasting to continue existing properties, I have greater concerns about them running out of villains.

 

[Brian Braddock]

If Marvel want to adapt me I'm very willing, although I don't know if I'm part of Fox's X-Universe or not.

 

[Zarex]

Why are people so down on the idea of characters being recasted and the same franchises continuing under other actors?

Because the MCU is a connected universe. Replacing RDJ with a younger actor is a totally different scenario than what we've previously seen with Bond, Spidey and Batman. In those other cases the entire cinematic universe was rebooted along with the change in thespians and/or there was precious little continuity from one film to the next.

You can't reboot one character - say Tony Stark - in a connected universe and have the rest continue on unabated. That's how you end up with a mess like Fox's X-Men. Or last summer's Ghostbusters, which foolishly decided to reboot the universe rather than do a sequel with a female cast.

Audiences will struggle to accept Riri Williams or Arno Stark in the Iron Man suit. But they are going to have difficulty with whoever replaces RDJ in the role, so it makes just as much sense to keep the MCU's continuity intact. We've seen legacy characters work onscreen with Scott Lang and Hope Van Dyne. Johnny Storm, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan have all done okay as well.

Anyhoo, those of us who want the MCU to move forward appear to have a supporter in Mr. Feige:

Does a Captain America movie have to star Steve Rogers?

FEIGE: It’s a good question and if we look back at the comic books as our inspiration and as the well from which this all springs, then the answer is “no.”

 

[SirStrangefolk]

The MCU in 2035-2040:

- Prowler
- Darkhawk 3
- Songbird
- White Tiger
- Black Knight 3
- Silk 2
- Machine Man
- Forceworks 2
- Nova 5
- Ms. America 2
- Wonder man 6
- Hercules & Amadeus 3
- Eternals 2
- Quasar 2
- Blue Marvel 2
- West Coast Avengers 4

Something like that? t:

And a list for the Avengers lineup of 2050-2070:

- Firebird
- Triathlon
- Sepulchre
- Silverclaw
- Rocket Racer
- Stingray
- Living Lightning
- Sabra
- Ultra Girl
- Jack Flag
- Prodigy
- Hummingbird
- Cloud 9
- Gorilla Girl
- Mettle
- Hazmat
- Turbo

They'll be joined by the Annihilators:

- Beta Ray Bill
- Ikon
- Uranian
- Starhawk (female)
- Martinex
- Krugarr
- Killraven
- Captain Universe (Hiro-Kala)

and the Inhumans:

- Tonaja
- San
- Alaris
- Nahrees
- Jolen
- Panacea
- Grid
- Auran

Oh, how I love doing this t:

 

[Abudefduf]

Because the MCU is a connected universe. Replacing RDJ with a younger actor is a totally different scenario than what we've previously seen with Bond, Spidey and Batman. In those other cases the entire cinematic universe was rebooted along with the change in thespians and/or there was precious little continuity from one film to the next.

You can't reboot one character - say Tony Stark - in a connected universe and have the rest continue on unabated.

I wanted to say this, but you beat me to it. Yeah, it would be very weird to see Tony Stark suddenly turn back into a 30-something year old man.

As for the OP's question… running out of A-listers does not mean running out of good character to use. Personally, I feel that the general audience would happily embrace lesser known heroes such as Ms. Marvel, Kate Bishop etc., but in order to be able to do so, they'd first have to, you know, actually be introduced to them.

 

[Silver Surfer]

That's the Champions, not the Avengers. And those aren't new IP.

Remember the original Defenders? doesn't look like anything like the MCU version. Nothing stopping the same from happening again, this time with the Avengers. Also Kamala and Miles are former avengers, while Kate is a Young Avenger.

 

[DrCosmic]

They weren't replacing popular characters though. That's the difference. As soon as audience start seeing their favorite characters like Tony Stark and Peter Parker getting replaced, they will reject it.

What you are suggesting is the same sort of garbage that has ruined Marvel Comics. Why would the film division want to be infected with that trash?

Also, by that time, Feige is likely to be gone/promoted too.

I don't think that's quite right. Even though you may not like what Marvel has done recently in comics (neither have I) I can't say that those characters have been rejected. Some are more popular than their originators at the moment, I suspect. And there's also the issue of having to replace actors, which can, if done wrong, have the same negative effect as replacing characters.

And I think that's what it comes down to: doing it right. Star Trek does it right. Doctor Who does it right. Star Wars did it wrong, then right. Shoot, the early seasons of Power Rangers got it right. Hell, Creed got it right, and that also alludes to how few movie franchises ever build up the steam to have characters with 5-10 movies as a character who needs replacing.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I don't think that's quite right. Even though you may not like what Marvel has done recently in comics (neither have I) I can't say that those characters have been rejected. Some are more popular than their originators at the moment, I suspect. And there's also the issue of having to replace actors, which can, if done wrong, have the same negative effect as replacing characters.

And I think that's what it comes down to: doing it right. Star Trek does it right. Doctor Who does it right. Star Wars did it wrong, then right. Shoot, the early seasons of Power Rangers got it right. Hell, Creed got it right, and that also alludes to how few movie franchises ever build up the steam to have characters with 5-10 movies as a character who needs replacing.

I think the key is to make audiences love new characters before getting rid of the old ones. Even though most people didn't know anything about Tony Stark before 2008, they got to love him through the movie. Even though almost nobody had ever even heard of the guardians, they have become very popular as well. Perhaps if Tony Stark, Steve Rogers and Thor were all gone in one movie and then the next they were like, "here are Wonder Man, Spectrum and Nova, now love them." that would turn off audiences. However, that's not what's happening. By the time those 3 are gone we'll probably still have the Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Ant-Man, Wasp, Black Panther, Bucky, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, etc. to like and before those are gone new characters can be introduced of which hopefully some will be liked.

 

[Slade W]

I am sure they will do what they did with the likes of Iron Man and turn B and C-listers into A-listers.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't see any problem with just putting different actors in and continuing as if nothing changed.

Actor X becomes Tony Stark and RDJ leaves, but Tony's backstory remains the same. What's the problem with that? Would it be much different than when different artists took over our favorite books? Things shift and change and look a little different but the general history and backstory remains the same.

At some point the actual dates will be problematic (just like we got to a point where Reed Richards could no longer realistically have been a WWII vet), but we need to suspend our disbelief on those items just like we did with the comics.

 

[Zarex]

I don't see any problem with just putting different actors in and continuing as if nothing changed.

Actor X becomes Tony Stark and RDJ leaves, but Tony's backstory remains the same. What's the problem with that? Would it be much different than when different artists took over our favorite books? Things shift and change and look a little different but the general history and backstory remains the same.

At some point the actual dates will be problematic (just like we got to a point where Reed Richards could no longer realistically have been a WWII vet), but we need to suspend our disbelief on those items just like we did with the comics.

I suppose you could swap out RDJ for a Brad Pitt or Bob Odenkirk and have the MCU continue along its merry way. Audiences may be squirming in their seats when the new guy interacts with Don Cheadle, Chris Evans, or Tom Holland - it would be the awkwardness of the Cheadle-RDJ courtroom meeting in IM2 dialed up to 11 - but I have confidence that Feige and company could make it work.

The real problem is if you cast a significantly younger actor and are in effect rebooting rather than recasting. A Tony Stark who is the same age as Steve Rogers makes no sense given what we have seen before in the MCU and creates a situation similar to what we've seen with FOX's X-Men series where no one in charge appears to care one whit about what happened in the prior film.

And what would be the purpose of destroying the MCU's continuity? Folks are going to struggle with RDJ's replacement regardless of whether that character is named Anthony Stark, Arno Stark or Riri Williams. We care, because as comic book readers we like to read the same stories featuring the same characters over and over and over again. Moviegoers will accept someone new in the suit.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

People are way overstating the importance of continuity. The character is far more important.

Audiences will accept recastings. We've seen it many times in other franchises, as well as this one with War Machine and Hulk. It won't be easy replacing RDJ, for sure. They certainly have to get the right replacement, but it is still a hundred times easier than putting someone else in the suit.

Iron Man IS Tony Stark. John or Jane Doe in the suit is not. Moviegoers will not accept someone new in the suit.

If Marvel tries that than the internet will explode in a fury that makes the response of Ghostbusters and Fant4stic look like afternoon tea with Grandma. I guarantee that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The real problem is if you cast a significantly younger actor and are in effect rebooting rather than recasting. A Tony Stark who is the same age as Steve Rogers makes no sense given what we have seen before in the MCU and creates a situation similar to what we've seen with FOX's X-Men series where no one in charge appears to care one whit about what happened in the prior film.

I agree that since he's something of an "elder statesman" you can't cast someone in their 20's. I would probably cast someone in their early 40's.

I wouldn't (though I can't speak for everybody) get hung up on one actor looking a little older or younger than a different one any more than I'd get hung up on Hugh Jackman obviously aging when his character should be much more constant.

As long as Tony doesn't look like a damn kid, I'm okay.

 

[Zarex]

People are way overstating the importance of continuity. The character is far more important.

I strongly disagree. Continuity is the key to the MCU and a major reason they have been able to successfully launch characters like Ant-Man (as a legacy character!) and Dr. Strange.

Audiences will accept recastings. We've seen it many times in other franchises, as well as this one with War Machine and Hulk. It won't be easy replacing RDJ, for sure. They certainly have to get the right replacement, but it is still a hundred times easier than putting someone else in the suit.
Iron Man IS Tony Stark. John or Jane Doe in the suit is not. Moviegoers will not accept someone new in the suit.

We don't know if audiences will accept recastings because we've never seen a character with multiple starring appearances recast in a connected cinematic universe. This is completely new territory. And while Iron Man IS Tony Stark, Ant Man IS Hank Pym and The Wasp IS Janet Van Dyne. But not in the MCU.

If Marvel tries that than the internet will explode in a fury that makes the response of Ghostbusters and Fant4stic look like afternoon tea with Grandma. I guarantee that.

If Marvel announces an Iron Man 4 movie in which Tony Stark trains his replacement, then I agree. The internet will explode.

 

[chamber-music]

As others have said marvel has a great track record of turning less well known characters into hot properties.

 

[All-Father]

I've made an argument that there should be a category of A minus Listers. Basically, characters people would recognize but not particularly care about. I'd argue the only true A-Listers are the same as you said - Spider-Man, Wolverine, and the Hulk. But I'd put the Fantastic Four and Captain America in the A minus category (maybe Punisher too).

The remaining characters were B-listers at best before their movies. Guardians were C-list. But, if somebody like Jessica Jones can be a popular Netflix character (and don't get me wrong, she deserves to be), Marvel doesn't have a problem. That being said, we got a lot of time. They're going to use these characters quite a bit more and then consider recasts as well. Frankly, when it comes to recasting to continue existing properties, I have greater concerns about them running out of villains.

Agreed on everything.
And, yes, the biggest problem might be them running out of villains...

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I think that to most audiences RDJ IS Tony Stark moreso than Tony Stark is Iron Man. Especially as most don't know Iron Man from the comics and know him only as RDJ. Anyway, I don't see why there would necessarily need to be an Iron Man or other armored Avenger at all times. There are many other characters they could use instead who have just as much potential to become popular. Especially since people are more willing to give Marvel a chance than they were before the MCU got big. I mean, there are people now who never read a comic that have Bucky Barnes and Star-Lord as their favorite characters now. Also, recasting also means that you won't get the chance to bring the character back in a smaller role with the original actor in the role several years later. Like, I'd rather focus on different characters after Infinity War, but maybe have RDJ return when he's in his 60s in a role similar to that of Michael Douglas as Hank Pym, as CEO of Stark Industries, or an important member of SHIELD, or the United States Secretary of Defense or whatever. You can't do that if you recast. This is a unique chance to see what a Marvel Universe would be like without some ridiculous sliding timescale, where not everything always returns to status quo.

 

[Dasher10]

I personally think that these characters should age in the movieverse and that their stories should come to an end eventually. And recasting Rhodey and Banner was tolerable, it happened in their second appearances. After Avengers 4, Chris Evans for example has been the Cap in 7 movies. I don't want to see anyone else play the same version of Steve Rogers.

I don't think that will happen. I feel like Steve Rogers has been iconic as Captain America and the role will be recast. Think about how many James Bonds and Robin Hoods there have been.

Right now I feel like Downey, Cheadle and Ruffalo are the ones who need to be recast the most due to age. I personally dislike Civil War II because all three of those characters got killed and I feel like that's just lazy. I'd recast them like this.

Iron Man injects himself with Extremis which will be said to slowly de-age him if he survives.

Hulk gets stuck in a new Joe Fixit persona permanently.

War Machine? I'm drawing blanks on him but I really don't want him killed off.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Time will heal all things...

They should retire Iron Man Thor Cap and Hulk after phase 3/4. Then Spider Man Doc Strange Black Panther and Captain Marvel pick up the baton and then the next heroes step up, maybe Fantastic Four and X Men and then after 10-20 years from now audiences will miss The original Avengers so THEN they can reboot or recast etc

 

[AlluAllu]

I think that Riri Williams is the perfect way to replace Iron Man. Her name isn't Iron Man and she isn't. She is a new character with thematic similarities and inherited spotlight.

Edit:

I don't think that will happen. I feel like Steve Rogers has been iconic as Captain America and the role will be recast. Think about how many James Bonds and Robin Hoods there have been.

The difference is that they didn't continue the same story. Except for like a five references to Bond's wife, you could watch the movies in any order and the experience wouldn't change.

. I'd recast them like this.

Iron Man injects himself with Extremis which will be said to slowly de-age him if he survives.

Hulk gets stuck in a new Joe Fixit persona permanently.

War Machine? I'm drawing blanks on him but I really don't want him killed off.

But I like this kind of thinking. I would be okay with the recasts, if there was an in-story explanation. Perhaps there could be a movie where Doom or someone destroys the world, but Doctor Strange manages to recreate it, with small changes. (But that's kind of stealing DC's stichk. Lol. BTW, please someone tell me the correct word, I couldn't find it.)

 

[Zarex]

I think that to most audiences RDJ IS Tony Stark moreso than Tony Stark is Iron Man. Especially as most don't know Iron Man from the comics and know him only as RDJ. Anyway, I don't see why there would necessarily need to be an Iron Man or other armored Avenger at all times. There are many other characters they could use instead who have just as much potential to become popular. Especially since people are more willing to give Marvel a chance than they were before the MCU got big. I mean, there are people now who never read a comic that have Bucky Barnes and Star-Lord as their favorite characters now. Also, recasting also means that you won't get the chance to bring the character back in a smaller role with the original actor in the role several years later. Like, I'd rather focus on different characters after Infinity War, but maybe have RDJ return when he's in his 60s in a role similar to that of Michael Douglas as Hank Pym, as CEO of Stark Industries, or an important member of SHIELD, or the United States Secretary of Defense or whatever. You can't do that if you recast. This is a unique chance to see what a Marvel Universe would be like without some ridiculous sliding timescale, where not everything always returns to status quo.

This point is huge. How does the scene with Kylo Ren play out if (spoiler alert!) Al Pacino or Jimmy Caan is the one falling down the trench? Or the emotional response when Adonis Johnson finds out (another spoiler!) that his mentor, now played by Arnold Schwarzenegger, is ill? I have no problem with putting RDJ or Chris Evans on the bench, but you don't cut them from the team.

 

[Darepool]

I've made an argument that there should be a category of A minus Listers. Basically, characters people would recognize but not particularly care about. I'd argue the only true A-Listers are the same as you said - Spider-Man, Wolverine, and the Hulk. But I'd put the Fantastic Four and Captain America in the A minus category (maybe Punisher too).

The remaining characters were B-listers at best before their movies. Guardians were C-list. But, if somebody like Jessica Jones can be a popular Netflix character (and don't get me wrong, she deserves to be), Marvel doesn't have a problem. That being said, we got a lot of time. They're going to use these characters quite a bit more and then consider recasts as well. Frankly, when it comes to recasting to continue existing properties, I have greater concerns about them running out of villains.

How are you judging this and WHO are these people that care or don't care - and how is that determined in a better way then $? Do people really care about the Hulk more then Deadpool for example? I agree that the Hulk and Wolverine (as an extension of the iconic X-Men) are A-listers and culturally iconic, part of the "zeitgeist" as they say, but as pure money generators for Marvel are they greater then Deadpool or Iron Man? Are they not A-Listers that people care about? Would a PG-13 Hulk film make more then an R-rated Deadpool? I guess you could dismiss the film as being too much in a vacuum, but an 800 m R-rated film is hard to ignore. I know the discussion is about the MCU specifically, but I'll use Marvel in general because it's relevant to my point. Many people would argue (and have) that pound for pound, Daredevil has the greatest runs in comic book history. With his current Netflix show and upcoming Defenders series, he's getting more viewers (and fans) by the day, so at what point does he go from an (A-) to fully fledged A-lister? I think we can get too caught up in the past and who had lunchboxes in the 50's or TV shows in the 70's or who was on the cover of a comic that sold 7 million copies in 1991, etc. These things are definitely considered in the fabric of the discussion and certainly important in showing staying power, but sometimes the truth is right in front of us as well. The films are the biggest IP's there are for Marvel so surely that becomes a HUGE part of the discussion in 2016. Cap and Iron Man are definitely A-Listers (Cap has been for the last 50 years) and Deadpool is as well. I think Thor is too, but the hesitancy for many would be that his films were not close to the level of Cap's trilogy or the first Iron Man. But TDW still made 650 m ww. Compare those numbers to HULK and Wolverine, just sayin'.... Ragnarok will likely cement Thor in this conversation as well.