What if Iran gets nuclear weapons?

[hippie_hunter]

Except, in this case, he has said something and then lived up to what he has said through his actions.

Not really. Findings by the US and European intelligence, and IAEA/UN reports have concluded that while Iran's intentions in regards to production of weapons are unclear, it's activities go well beyond just civilian energy purposes. The Iranian nuclear program does not behave like a typical civilian energy nuclear program.

And honestly, you can't blame the Iranian regime for wanting nuclear weapons either. It is behaving like every other nation with the exception of Nazi Germany in regards to nuclear weapons production. It wants security from the United States, which is often hostile towards Iran, and Israel, which acts like a borderline rogue nation. Just like how nuclear weapons protect Israel from attack by its neighbors, a nuclear armed Iran would protect itself from possible American/Israeli (most likely Israeli) aggression.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Nukes in the 21st century prevent war.

Think about countries with nukes that have been invaded.

 

[The Question]

Nukes in the 21st century prevent war.

Think about countries with nukes that have been invaded.

There's a correlation, but I'm not sure there's causation. Countries without nukes also tend to not have the military capabilities in general to stand up to the United States.

 

[Thundercrack85]

While I think that generally holds true, Israel actually had nuclear weapons during the Yom-Kippur war. Fear of Israelis going nuclear is what made the world act.

 

[hippie_hunter]

There's a correlation, but I'm not sure there's causation. Countries without nukes also tend to not have the military capabilities in general to stand up to the United States.

I see it as causation. If Iran had a nuclear weapons stockpile, it would be safe from Israeli aggression because Israel would fear nuclear retaliation. If the United States tried to invade Iran, while Iran can't deploy nukes to the United States, it could certainly use nukes on its own soil to take out large numbers of US troops or attack a US ally in range like Israel or one of the Gulf States.

Nuclear weapons are pretty much the guarantee that Iran will not get attacked by Israel or the United States. Nuclear weapons are the reason why India and Pakistan will not attack each other. They're why the United States and Soviet Union did not attack each other.

 

[Thundercrack85]

To me this all seems rather lazy politics. Iran and Israel have several countries between themselves, who hate both of them. Due to geography, the two will never have a conventional war.

The Iranians have been using Israel as a scapegoat / boogie man for years, and now it seems to be Israel's turn.

This whole thing feels like a distraction.

Both have much more pressing, neighboring foes. Oh don't get me wrong. I don't blame Israel for being concerned that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon, but there is a "small" country named Saudi Arabia, and a... quasi-state named ISIS that present a much more immediate threat to Iran's regional interests.

 

[Marvolo]

NK has had nuclear weapons for a while and the world hasn't ended. I'm pretty sure that the world won't burn if we negotiate a treaty with Iran and allow them to have nuclear energy or even develop nuclear weapons. We should at least exhaust our options before resorting to war. I don't want them to have nuclear weapons, but I also don't want us to go to war with Iran over hypothetical what-if's and maybe's and doomsayers and warhawks. The GOP and Netanyahu needs to worry about more important issues that are actually killing and hurting people right now. Issues such as Israel's illegal theft of land and the crimes against the people on that land and ISIS.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

A rogue country without nuclear weapons is going to get invaded sooner or later.

Iran really doesn't have much choice.

Can you imagine our enemies with nukes dictating our nuke policy?

Would Americans ever allow that?

 

[warhorse78]

A rogue country without nuclear weapons is going to get invaded sooner or later.

Iran really doesn't have much choice.

Can you imagine our enemies with nukes dictating our nuke policy?

Would Americans ever allow that?

Eh, we got many allies like Australia and England trying to dictate to the USA about our rights to bear arms, and well, so far we are ignoring them. That is, until we get a sleeper cell in the White House, which is possible.

 

[Kelly]

The fact that Iran has had leadership that has called the Holocaust a scam, that has no idea of history other than the one they have made up...I would find it hard to be ok with them having anything anywhere near a nuclear weapon. If they had leadership that was trustworthy enough to not go ape**** crazy on a whim, then this would not be a big deal.

But, pure and simple, the leadership of Iran scares the hell out of me...and if they end up with nuclear weapon capabilities, you can damn well rest assured that Israel will pull that card as well, and then we REALLY HAVE A 3RD WORLD WAR on our hands. I just don't think that is a chance we can take.

 

[SV Fan]

But, pure and simple, the leadership of Iran scares the hell out of me...and if they end up with nuclear weapon capabilities, you can damn well rest assured that Israel will pull that card as well, and then we REALLY HAVE A 3RD WORLD WAR on our hands. I just don't think that is a chance we can take.

Israel has enough nuclear weapons to turn Iran into a parking lot, while the last leader of Iran was a little looney I don't think anybody there will be looney enough to go into a fight with Israel knowing that they will be torn into shreads.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The fact that Iran has had leadership that has called the Holocaust a scam, that has no idea of history other than the one they have made up...I would find it hard to be ok with them having anything anywhere near a nuclear weapon. If they had leadership that was trustworthy enough to not go ape**** crazy on a whim, then this would not be a big deal.

But, pure and simple, the leadership of Iran scares the hell out of me...and if they end up with nuclear weapon capabilities, you can damn well rest assured that Israel will pull that card as well, and then we REALLY HAVE A 3RD WORLD WAR on our hands. I just don't think that is a chance we can take.

A 3rd World War? Maybe a 2nd Cold War.

and North Korea is pretty insane. They haven't pressed the red button.

These elite leaders of Iran and North Korea may pretend to be war crazed hawks but they're not stupid. They're not going to get their entire nation wiped out in a nuclear Holocaust.

 

[hippie_hunter]

To me this all seems rather lazy politics. Iran and Israel have several countries between themselves, who hate both of them. Due to geography, the two will never have a conventional war.

The Iranians have been using Israel as a scapegoat / boogie man for years, and now it seems to be Israel's turn.

This whole thing feels like a distraction.

Both have much more pressing, neighboring foes. Oh don't get me wrong. I don't blame Israel for being concerned that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon, but there is a "small" country named Saudi Arabia, and a... quasi-state named ISIS that present a much more immediate threat to Iran's regional interests.

Iran can't engage in a conventional war, but Israel can. It's widely assumed that despite public appearances, the Arab Gulf States will allow Israel to attack Iran through their airspace. It's known fact that they co-operate with Israel on several fronts like sharing intelligence.

Another very prevalent theory is that if Israel and the Palestinians made peace, it would give room for the Arab Gulf States need to formally recognize Israel. Saudi Arabia would really like to be on the side of Israel in order to more effectively fight Islamic extremism and counter Iran.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

The majority of these quarrels are complete political drivel. There is a difference between a universal truth and law. By the law of politics, we are more likely to attribute greater worth to the lives of our nation's people and the people of its allies than to enemy nations. By universal truth we need to acknowledge that all lives are of utmost value.

For every one of you that is saying "Iran can't get the weapon" because you're worried about innocent civilians of one side being killed I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for you.

In all likelihood, USA and Israel are FAR more likely to attack Iran first. Even then, the lives of Iranian innocents are not worth more just the same as my statement of the reverse.

For those of you boasting about innocent lives and the tyrannical Ayatollah now, where were you when proponents of the Shah were dragged through the streets only to have their already dead bodies strung up on nooses? Where were you when the houses of Baha'is were raided, their children kidnapped and put to the firing squad? When they were denied education, stripped of their rights and barred from leaving the country? Where were you when the Iranian people's right to vote was denied them? When historical sites of Iran were demolished by the Ayatollahs?

If you're going to take an altruistic stance of Social Justice when you're clearly being influenced by a political bias, I spit in your face. Absolutely ZERO respect for you. For me, this has always been an issue of Social Justice. I don't care for politics, which is why during the Hamas/Israel issue, I was against the killing of innocents from both sides.

If you're going to have a political opinion, that's completely fine and your entitled to that, but don't pretend like it's an issue of social justice and morality when you clearly don't give a **** about the lives of anyone else outside of your country or its allies'.

 

[Cosmic]

All I'm going to say about this for right now, is that though I have no love whatsoever for the Iranian leadership, there is a ton of hypocrisy coming from the West on this issue. For one thing, people (mainly on the Right Wing) over here seem to have very selective memories, or simply haven't bothered to even do a little historical research before making up their minds on the issue.

Another thing that really bothers me, is that there is little to no discussion over here about the reality of daily life for average Iranian citizens, who actually have no desire for war or Armageddon. What they really want is more freedom from their repressive government, including the ability to freely access the internet, friendly relations with people from other countries, and financial stability. Hey, it seems like we have a lot in common. Maybe we should do everything possible to ensure that this doesn't end in slaughter.

 

[Kelly]

Israel has enough nuclear weapons to turn Iran into a parking lot, while the last leader of Iran was a little looney I don't think anybody there will be looney enough to go into a fight with Israel knowing that they will be torn into shreads.

I can definitely agree, the leadership (at the Presidential level) is more moderate.

But he is still a puppet.

And as so many have stated, and it is so obvious....that they are sitting on one of the cheapest forms of POWER THERE IS...let them use THAT.

It's not rocket science...

 

[terry78]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/islamic-state-threatens-blow-up-5325058

Yeah, good luck not having a ****storm.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

All I'm going to say about this for right now, is that though I have no love whatsoever for the Iranian leadership, there is a ton of hypocrisy coming from the West on this issue. For one thing, people (mainly on the Right Wing) over here seem to have very selective memories, or simply haven't bothered to even do a little historical research before making up their minds on the issue.

Another thing that really bothers me, is that there is little to no discussion over here about the reality of daily life for average Iranian citizens, who actually have no desire for war or Armageddon. What they really want is more freedom from their repressive government, including the ability to freely access the internet, friendly relations with people from other countries, and financial stability. Hey, it seems like we have a lot in common. Maybe we should do everything possible to ensure that this doesn't end in slaughter.

All that would entail is for every official political power to give an address to their nation and to the Iranian citizens that they have their support in a series of demonstrations and eventual revolution. Let the people finish the movement they started in 2009.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

The fact that Iran has had leadership that has called the Holocaust a scam, that has no idea of history other than the one they have made up...I would find it hard to be ok with them having anything anywhere near a nuclear weapon. If they had leadership that was trustworthy enough to not go ape**** crazy on a whim, then this would not be a big deal.

Said leadership has also said they aren't developing nuclear weapons and will veto any plans to make them. He's not crazy, and he's not an idiot. He knows his history and he's a meticulous, conniving piece of ****. He lies, but he's not stupid. He bleeds the people of his own country, and talks poorly of his country's own history.

People like to bring up the Holocaust thing to perpetuate the stereotype of the anti-semitic Middle-Eastern, but the reality is, at least with Iran, Jews and Persians have had a 2500 year old friendship, and as far as Persians are concerned, that goes deep. The problems between the governing bodies of Iran and Israel are as a result of the arms deals USA made to Iran through Israel, while Iran backed Hamas. It's two piss poor governing bodies quarrelling like little school children.

But, pure and simple, the leadership of Iran scares the hell out of me...and if they end up with nuclear weapon capabilities, you can damn well rest assured that Israel will pull that card as well, and then we REALLY HAVE A 3RD WORLD WAR on our hands. I just don't think that is a chance we can take.

That would never happen. The Ayatollah is afraid of destroying historical sites to the Persian Empire, because their people would revolt. If they threw a rock at Israel, they'd be blown off the Earth and they know it.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/islamic-state-threatens-blow-up-5325058

Yeah, good luck not having a ****storm.

Terry, what the hell does this have to do with Iran? ISIS and Iran are enemies.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I can definitely agree, the leadership (at the Presidential level) is more moderate.

But he is still a puppet.

And as so many have stated, and it is so obvious....that they are sitting on one of the cheapest forms of POWER THERE IS...let them use THAT.

It's not rocket science...

There's a LOT of oil in the USA, there's also a LOT of power to come from geothermal, solar and wind power in the States, way more than from Nuclear. Should the USA disarm it's nuclear weapons and stop using Nuclear Energy?

You're also openly calling for a nation to use a form of energy that is tremendously worse for the environment than Nuclear. Not to mention that Nuclear energy can only be harnessed and focused up to something ridiculously small like 10-20%. There's an unfathomable amount of innovation to come from the untapped potentials of nuclear refinement.

 

[terry78]

Terry, what the hell does this have to do with Iran? ISIS and Iran are enemies.

Everything considering they are. They'd take issue with this.

 

[Taarna]

All I'm going to say about this for right now, is that though I have no love whatsoever for the Iranian leadership, there is a ton of hypocrisy coming from the West on this issue. For one thing, people (mainly on the Right Wing) over here seem to have very selective memories, or simply haven't bothered to even do a little historical research before making up their minds on the issue.

Another thing that really bothers me, is that there is little to no discussion over here about the reality of daily life for average Iranian citizens, who actually have no desire for war or Armageddon. What they really want is more freedom from their repressive government, including the ability to freely access the internet, friendly relations with people from other countries, and financial stability. Hey, it seems like we have a lot in common. Maybe we should do everything possible to ensure that this doesn't end in slaughter.

The citizens of Iran do not have much of a say. For openers women have little say. That's half the population.

The Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khameini saying that gender equality was "one of the biggest mistakes of Western thought.

Iran has executed 1,000 of political prisoners. Speak up, and you are at risk.

A sample of their law.

Theft (sirqhat-e-haddi): 1st offense, amputation of the 4 right fingers; 2nd offense, amputation of the 5 left toes; 3rd offense, life imprisonment; 4th offense, death penalty. There are numerous mitigating factors, such as poverty, repentance, failure, if it was public property, if it was not in a secure place inside of a house/store, and such. As a general rule, Iranian judicial authorities do not carry out amputation.

Apostasy (irtaad): officially not a crime in Iran, but still punished because it is inspired by religious texts in serious cases. Death penalty for men, life imprisonment for women. (If person had converted and then became apostate, three days are given to repent, otherwise execution carried out).

Blasphemy (sabb-al-nabi): death penalty or imprisonment[citation needed]
Adultery (zina): Unmarried(fornication), 100 lashes, death penalty for married couples. Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence, marrying partner, temporary marriage in some cases.

Married: death penalty (probably hanging) Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence, forgiveness by spouse, (in practice if partner did not die, no death penalty given) It would normally would be reduced to 99 lashes discretionary punishment

Rape: death penalty for rapist (4 witnesses not needed in most cases) Mitigating factor: repentance, forgiveness of victim, paying compensation "jirah" to victim, lack of evidence

Sodomy (lavat): Rape, death penalty for rapist; Consensual; 100 lashes for active partner, death penalty for passive partner unless repentant (prior to 2012, it was death penalty for both). Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence, (see adultery's mitigating factors)

Takhfiz (non-penetrative homosexuality): 100 lashes; 4th offense, death penalty. Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence[citation needed]
Lesbianism (mosahegheh): 100 lashes; death on 4th offense Mitigating factors: repentance, lack of evidence

Procuring of prostitute (ghavvadi): 100 lashes; 4th offense, death penalty. If widespread prostitution rings were run, person could be sentenced to death as a "corrupter of the earth". Mitigating factor: repentance, lack of evidence

False Accusation of Sexual Crimes (ghazf): 80 lashes; 4th offense, death penalty. Mitigating factors: forgiveness of the falsely accused person.

Consumption of alcohol (shurb-e-khamr): 80 lashes; 4th offense death penalty (prior to 2008, 3rd offense) This also applies to drug users. Mitigating Factors: repentance, lack of evidence, promising to receive treatment for addiction


The nation is run by religious people who have no qualms about using their holy book to justify terrorism. No way should these guys be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons. There is only downside if they get them...

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

How did North Korea end up with nukes?

Wasn't it because stopping them would require a full blown conflict.

I'd imagine we're in a similar position here.

Allow Iran to have a closely monitored nuclear program or go to war to stop them.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Everything considering they are. They'd take issue with this.

Please elaborate.

The citizens of Iran do not have much of a say. For openers women have little say. That's half the population.

The Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khameini saying that gender equality was "one of the biggest mistakes of Western thought.

Iran has executed 1,000 of political prisoners. Speak up, and you are at risk.

A sample of their law.

Theft (sirqhat-e-haddi): 1st offense, amputation of the 4 right fingers; 2nd offense, amputation of the 5 left toes; 3rd offense, life imprisonment; 4th offense, death penalty. There are numerous mitigating factors, such as poverty, repentance, failure, if it was public property, if it was not in a secure place inside of a house/store, and such. As a general rule, Iranian judicial authorities do not carry out amputation.

Apostasy (irtaad): officially not a crime in Iran, but still punished because it is inspired by religious texts in serious cases. Death penalty for men, life imprisonment for women. (If person had converted and then became apostate, three days are given to repent, otherwise execution carried out).

Blasphemy (sabb-al-nabi): death penalty or imprisonment[citation needed]
Adultery (zina): Unmarried(fornication), 100 lashes, death penalty for married couples. Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence, marrying partner, temporary marriage in some cases.

Married: death penalty (probably hanging) Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence, forgiveness by spouse, (in practice if partner did not die, no death penalty given) It would normally would be reduced to 99 lashes discretionary punishment

Rape: death penalty for rapist (4 witnesses not needed in most cases) Mitigating factor: repentance, forgiveness of victim, paying compensation "jirah" to victim, lack of evidence

Sodomy (lavat): Rape, death penalty for rapist; Consensual; 100 lashes for active partner, death penalty for passive partner unless repentant (prior to 2012, it was death penalty for both). Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence, (see adultery's mitigating factors)

Takhfiz (non-penetrative homosexuality): 100 lashes; 4th offense, death penalty. Mitigating Factor: repentance, lack of evidence[citation needed]
Lesbianism (mosahegheh): 100 lashes; death on 4th offense Mitigating factors: repentance, lack of evidence

Procuring of prostitute (ghavvadi): 100 lashes; 4th offense, death penalty. If widespread prostitution rings were run, person could be sentenced to death as a "corrupter of the earth". Mitigating factor: repentance, lack of evidence

False Accusation of Sexual Crimes (ghazf): 80 lashes; 4th offense, death penalty. Mitigating factors: forgiveness of the falsely accused person.

Consumption of alcohol (shurb-e-khamr): 80 lashes; 4th offense death penalty (prior to 2008, 3rd offense) This also applies to drug users. Mitigating Factors: repentance, lack of evidence, promising to receive treatment for addiction


The nation is run by religious people who have no qualms about using their holy book to justify terrorism. No way should these guys be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons. There is only downside if they get them...

The Iranian constitution and code of laws has been mish-mashed for the last 1000 years. Judges and officials make decisions based on opinion and there's no basis for legal precedence in Iran. It's essentially a country where a bunch of self-obsessed bullies got power and only share the power with other self obsessed bullies.

Sometimes they follow the punishments, sometimes they let things go, sometimes it's much worse. Now that said, you can't use the Slippery Slope fallacy to argue a point in favour of a hypothetical situation that hasn't happened.

1. Iran said they are not developing nuclear weapons
2. Even if they did, you can't assume they're going to use them because they commit acts of terror against their own people

Might I remind you of the acts of terrorism committed by virtually every country in possession of nuclear arms? They are all constantly breaking the rules set by the Geneva Convention.

So let's not pretend that you not wanting Iran to pursue nuclear power is about "Social Justice", because if it was, you'd be advocating that every country with nuclear powers disarm themselves. And as per Iran specifically, you'd be calling for them to fix their current issues rather than stopping progress in fear of future issues that may or may not happen.