What if Iran gets nuclear weapons?

[Feenix]

The whole defense of Israel premise is filled with so many holes.

1. Look at the nations that border Israel. Just like how the United States shares its largest borders with Mexico and Canada, the nations that have the largest borders with Israel are Jordan and Egypt. Both of which have peace treaties with Israel and recognize its existence. Lebanon would most likely have peaceful co-existence with Israel if it weren't for Israel's constant provocations against Lebanon. And Syria is in no position to attack Israel. And to go even further beyond just Israel's borders, many major Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Bahrain co-operate with Israel despite their rhetoric and other major ones like Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, and Kuwait are never going to just straight up attack Israel. Israel's borders are not as hostile as Israel likes to make it out to be.

2. Supporters of Israel like to make this strawman argument that just because there should be peace with the Palestinians, that this absurdly means that we are calling for Israel to disarm itself. That is not the case. Every nation has the right to defend themselves and even though the current situation has Israel in a very secure position, it's not worth risking what could happen if Israel disarms. What we're calling for is not for Israel to stop defending itself, but to stop its warmongering campaigns against innocent civilians.

Also, what restraint are you talking about. Under the Netanyahu Cabinet, Israel has shown almost no restraint. Under PMs like Rabin, Sharon, etc. there's been restraint, but not Netanyahu. He's like an even worse Dubya.

Iran isn't going to launch a nuclear weapon against Israel. Iran may not be the best country in the world, but they're not psychotic the way the North Korean regime is. You also have to take into account that the biggest reasons why Iran started its nuclear program is because it feels that it is threatened by Israel, which has nuclear weapons, and the United States which is also a nuclear power that has interfered in the affairs of almost all of Iran's neighbors.

Asides from Nazi Germany, no country has developed nuclear weapons for their offensive capabilities, they develop them out of fear of nations that they are hostile to and hope the deterrence will keep them safe. This same logic applies to Iran.

If anything, Netanyahu's opposition to any deal with Iran is putting Israel in more danger of a nuclear armed Iran than no deal happening at all.

Exactly, which is why a deal needs to happen. A deal that can placate Iran but at the same time ensuring that Iran does not get nuclear weapons. No deal will more than likely result in Iran getting a bomb within a year or two when negotiations collapse.

The voice of reason.

 

[Destructus86]

Here's my thing...the middle east is a bowling pot of stew...what kind of stew is cooking? Racial hatred of course. ON ALL sides...and it's a stew that's been bowling for generations. No side in that part of the world is responsible enough for nuclear power. Iran shouldn't have nuclear energy and same goes for Israel.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Good luck with that.

Israel needs its nuclear arsenal and it will never give it up.

At the same time, Israel needs to let America deal with Iran diplomatically.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Here's my thing...the middle east is a bowling pot of stew...what kind of stew is cooking? Racial hatred of course. ON ALL sides...and it's a stew that's been bowling for generations. No side in that part of the world is responsible enough for nuclear power. Iran shouldn't have nuclear energy and same goes for Israel.

That's a big misconception. Overall, the Middle East has been historically stable until the 20th Century when the West started mucking things up there. Before the West screwed things up, places like Iran and Turkey were quite modern and cosmopolitan. They weren't constantly going to war with one another.

 

[Kelly]

How about NO ONE should have the bomb!

Nice thought, but not realistic.

I would like for us to still have the isolationist view of foreign policy, but that is not realistic either.

It is a different world from decades ago, and "someone" will always have nuclear weapons.

 

[SV Fan]

I would like for us to still have the isolationist view of foreign policy, but that is not realistic either.

I don't think you need an isolationist view but how about one that every other country should put more weight into world affairs instead of the US wasting all it's cash being the be all and end all of world foreign policy

 

[hippie_hunter]

If this were the world of our Founding Fathers, then yeah, I'd say that we should have a more isolationist foreign policy. However, we live in a more interconnected, globalized world to where you cannot have an isolationist policy. What I think we need to be doing is a return to the pragmatic mix of realism and liberalism of George H.W. Bush.

 

[Taarna]

hippie_hunter. The whole defense of Israel premise is filled with so many holes.

1. Look at the nations that border Israel. Just like how the United States shares its largest borders with Mexico and Canada, the nations that have the largest borders with Israel are Jordan and Egypt. Both of which have peace treaties with Israel and recognize its existence. Lebanon would most likely have peaceful co-existence with Israel if it weren't for Israel's constant provocations against Lebanon. And Syria is in no position to attack Israel. And to go even further beyond just Israel's borders, many major Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Bahrain co-operate with Israel despite their rhetoric and other major ones like Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, and Kuwait are never going to just straight up attack Israel. Israel's borders are not as hostile as Israel likes to make it out to be.

Yes, lets look at both the West bank and Gaza strip Hippie. Did you know they are funded for terrorism by Iran? Also, you are aware Egypt has tunnels into the Gaza stipe to help the Hamas government attack Israel.

Upon further reflection Israel has problems on the East and West side of its boarder.

To the North yes Syria has its hands full now but once a winner emerges, it won't be a friend of Israel either.

2. Supporters of Israel like to make this strawman argument that just because there should be peace with the Palestinians, that this absurdly means that we are calling for Israel to disarm itself. That is not the case. Every nation has the right to defend themselves and even though the current situation has Israel in a very secure position, it's not worth risking what could happen if Israel disarms. What we're calling for is not for Israel to stop defending itself, but to stop its warmongering campaigns against innocent civilians.

If a leader of a nation threatens to use nuclear weapons, that is no straw man argument. Its very serious. You just do not attempt to bluff in Nuclear poker. The stakes are too high. Even if you say it, the other side can take it the wrong way. Also consider the Iran might give a nuke to a terror group to do its dirty work.

Also, what restraint are you talking about. Under the Netanyahu Cabinet, Israel has shown almost no restraint. Under PMs like Rabin, Sharon, etc. there's been restraint, but not Netanyahu. He's like an even worse Dubya.

Relative to their military might, Israel has been very restrained.

Iran isn't going to launch a nuclear weapon against Israel. Iran may not be the best country in the world, but they're not psychotic the way the North Korean regime is.

What makes you 100% sure? Iran talks as if they can not wait to attack. Also you are wrong. Religious nuts who kill in the name of their religion are not rational, nor can they be reasoned with.

 

[SV Fan]

Also, what restraint are you talking about. Under the Netanyahu Cabinet, Israel has shown almost no restraint. Under PMs like Rabin, Sharon, etc. there's been restraint, but not Netanyahu. He's like an even worse Dubya.

Dubya is being too generous, think more Dick Cheney

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yes, lets look at both the West bank and Gaza strip Hippie. Did you know they are funded for terrorism by Iran?

Hamas doesn't rule the West Bank, only the Gaza Strip. And I really wouldn't call Hamas a terrorist group either. They are the legitimate government elected by the Palestinian people that have been forced to engage in unsavory tactics due to the actions of Israel.

Also, you are aware Egypt has tunnels into the Gaza stipe to help the Hamas government attack Israel.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA! It's funny that you actually think that the Egyptian government would ever support Hamas. The current Egyptian government hates Hamas because they're essentially the same thing as the Muslim Brotherhood that they worked to overthrow.

To the North yes Syria has its hands full now but once a winner emerges, it won't be a friend of Israel either.

An ISIS controlled Syria would be problematic for Israel, but if the Baathist regime of al-Assad comes out victorious, Israel has nothing to worry about. While al-Assad will never support Israel, he isn't going to attack Israel. Israel would defeat him with such ease and it would probably end his regime.

If a leader of a nation threatens to use nuclear weapons, that is no straw man argument. Its very serious. You just do not attempt to bluff in Nuclear poker. The stakes are too high. Even if you say it, the other side can take it the wrong way. Also consider the Iran might give a nuke to a terror group to do its dirty work.

Nuclear weapons are all about bluffing. That is their whole purpose. Nuclear weapons are primarily a defensive weapon, not an offensive one.

Relative to their military might, Israel has been very restrained.

They certainly didn't show any restraint during the Gaza War last year.

What makes you 100% sure? Iran talks as if they can not wait to attack. Also you are wrong. Religious nuts who kill in the name of their religion are not rational, nor can they be reasoned with.

I'm not saying that the Iranian regime is some super happy fun time nice guy to deal with, but the Iranian regime shows no signs that it is suicidal. They know the consequences if they ever used nukes against Israel.

How about instead of watching Fox News, you actually read a history book and study foreign policy.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Dubya is being too generous, think more Dick Cheney

I'll give you that.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Sanctions and embargoes were meant to cripple the regime have not been completely successful. India, CAR's, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, and Russia still invest into Iran. Iran still finds market for its oil, trades freely with S. American nations, and still has one of the most powerful armies in the Middle East, (I'd say definitely top 5). They also make their own ballistic weapons, submarines, drones, and have over half a million trained soldiers ,not including proxy militias like Asaib Ahl al-Haqq, ISF, Hezbollah, Hezbe Wahdat, and Hamas.

The only reason Iran would want Nuclear weapons is to deter it from invasion and attack from the US and Israel.

Could they share nuclear secrets? Possibly. But that is not a possible precursor to nuclear war. Pakistan, N. Korea, and Saudi Arabia all have access to nukes. The UK has over 200 Nuclear war heads and Israel is rumored to have as many as 400! Many nations can get access to Nukes and nuclear research via NATO. Saudi Arabia is rumored to be financing and helping Pakistan maintain their stockpile.

Israel is trying to pull the same strings as they did when they helped to persuade Americans of the threat of Iraq here and we all know how that war went.

Just think if Israel spent this much time having the US attack other countries and instead, used that time to get the US to resolve the Palestinian conflict, how much positive could be done to this 60 year war.

 

[Taarna]

hippie_hunter Hamas doesn't rule the West Bank, only the Gaza Strip. And I really wouldn't call Hamas a terrorist group either. They are the legitimate government elected by the Palestinian people that have been forced to engage in unsavory tactics due to the actions of Israel.

I know that. My reply was aimed at your quote of "Israel's borders are not as hostile as Israel likes to make it out to be." Wrong, they have trouble in the East in the Gaza Strip and in the west. Are isreal's baorders free from attack? No way. Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, terrorists have fired more than 11,000 rockets into Israel.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA! It's funny that you actually think that the Egyptian government would ever support Hamas. The current Egyptian government hates Hamas because they're essentially the same thing as the Muslim Brotherhood that they worked to overthrow.

What's so funny? Its a fact there are many tunnels from Egypt to the Gaza strip. Clearly the Egyptian government casts a blind eye. When was the last time Egypt destroyed such a tunnel and convicted those in the terrorism business. Please do tell?

An ISIS controlled Syria would be problematic for Israel, but if the Baathist regime of al-Assad comes out victorious, Israel has nothing to worry about. While al-Assad will never support Israel, he isn't going to attack Israel. Israel would defeat him with such ease and it would probably end his regime.

Half correct. Syria has clear goals to take back the Golan Heights.

Nuclear weapons are all about bluffing. That is their whole purpose. Nuclear weapons are primarily a defensive weapon, not an offensive one.

For sane leaders, Yes. Iran is not sane with their leaders. Look what they did to our embassy years ago. As mentioned Iran funds terrorism, and openly speaks about destroying Israel.

They certainly didn't show any restraint during the Gaza War last year.

Yes they did. Could you imagine what the USA would do to another nation if they fired 1,000's of rockets and killed our civilians? Israel could have bulldozed the strip and relocated the refugees elsewhere. They did not. They simply de-fanged the ability for those in Gaza to wage war.

I'm not saying that the Iranian regime is some super happy fun time nice guy to deal with, but the Iranian regime shows no signs that it is suicidal. They know the consequences if they ever used nukes against Israel.

When religion with runs a nation, its not rational in thought. Iran is not a democracy. If their leaders say they are going to do something, they can. Do not ignore the hate and words of Hitler. They exist today.

ow about instead of watching Fox News, you actually read a history book and study foreign policy.

Some sort of jab? 1 ) I do not watch fox news. 2) what you said in terms of boarder security is incorrect. Lets keep this clean.

-T

 

[Typhoon22]

That Netanyahu dude needs a total *****slapping.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I know that. My reply was aimed at your quote of "Israel's borders are not as hostile as Israel likes to make it out to be." Wrong, they have trouble in the East in the Gaza Strip and in the west. Are isreal's baorders free from attack? No way. Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, terrorists have fired more than 11,000 rockets into Israel.

Again, not exactly terrorists. A lot of those rocket attacks are retaliation for Israeli attacks against the Gaza Strip. And do you honestly expect Hamas to just stand and do nothing while Israel continues to occupy Gaza's airspace and waters? Or as how they continue to deny the existence of a Palestinian state.

What's so funny? Its a fact there are many tunnels from Egypt to the Gaza strip. Clearly the Egyptian government casts a blind eye. When was the last time Egypt destroyed such a tunnel and convicted those in the terrorism business. Please do tell?

It's funny because it's completely ignorant. The Egyptian government will never give Hamas legitimacy because it will give the Muslim Brotherhood legitimacy. They are expanding the buffer zone between Gaza and Sinai. When the Egyptian government discovers new tunnels, they destroy them, like they have done just most recently:
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Eg...ng-tunnel-uncovered-between-Sinai-Gaza-388036

http://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-steps-up-efforts-for-gaza-buffer-after-discovery-of-more-tunnels/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-destroys-1370-gaza-smuggling-tunnels/

And the Egyptian government has announced that they are freezing Hamas assets and arresting Hamas members just a couple of days ago:
http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2015/...o-be-arrested-assets-frozen-justice-minister/

So in this instance, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. And that is why I laugh.

Half correct. Syria has clear goals to take back the Golan Heights.

Which is Syrian territory that has been illegally occupied by Israel.

For sane leaders, Yes. Iran is not sane with their leaders. Look what they did to our embassy years ago.

What happened in response to decades worth of American abuse on Iran like overthrowing their democratically elected government and supporting a brutal dictator there while working to delegitimize them.

As mentioned Iran funds terrorism,

Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly terrorist groups. They are political organizations that just so happen to work to defend their territories against Israel.

and openly speaks about destroying Israel.

Empty meaningless words.

Yes they did. Could you imagine what the USA would do to another nation if they fired 1,000's of rockets and killed our civilians? Israel could have bulldozed the strip and relocated the refugees elsewhere. They did not. They simply de-fanged the ability for those in Gaza to wage war.

Except Hamas rockets are worthless thanks to Israel's Iron Dome. Almost none of them actually did any damage to Israel and those attacks again, are in retaliation against Israeli aggression. Israel on the other hand has bombed schools, hospitals, UN facilities, residential areas, etc. Please tell me how that was restraint? And you're acting as if the Gaza Strip is Israeli territory when it isn't.

What happened was essentially the equivalent of me going after you with a paintball gun and you retaliating against me with an M61 Vulcan.

When religion with runs a nation, its not rational in thought. Iran is not a democracy. If their leaders say they are going to do something, they can.

Never tried to portray modern day Iran as a free society to begin with. It's authoritarian, thus the point you're trying to make is moot. But just because Iran has a theocratic autocratic government doesn't mean that they want to wipe themselves to oblivion. They want to stay in power first and foremost. That is how every nation acts. North Korea acts "crazy" for the exact same reason.

Do not ignore the hate and words of Hitler. They exist today.

Hitler comparisons are so baseless.

[QUOE]Some sort of jab? 1 ) I do not watch fox news. 2) what you said in terms of boarder security is incorrect. Lets keep this clean.[/QUOTE]
I say it as a jab because you're 100% wrong.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

95% of people wouldn't give a **** that Iran has nukes. But it would change the geopolitical relations in that region significantly, and it would mean that Israel being targeted would become a when not if scenario.

Most people don't have an issue with Iran getting nukes because they'd like to see Netanyahu take a public knock. He definitely does need a dressing down and should be removed from Israeli politics, but a nuclear Iran would do much more than threaten only Israel. Tel Aviv would get hit within a decade, I have little doubt of that. Eventually a radical enough individual would gain power in Iran and do something drastic. Imagine what would have happened if Al Qaeda had access to nukes.

People also seem to forget that relations between different Middle Eastern nations get quite strained too. The fewer potentially mad despots that have access to WMDs in the region the better.

Edit: ^^ I didn't even finish typing and somebody proved my point.

The biggest issue here isn't what's being said but who's saying it. If David Cameron or Angela Merkel said something everybody would be talking about how dangerous Iran is. But because it's Netanyahu everyone automatically writes off any legitimacy to the information. It'll be nice to see people apply critical thought to a topic rather than recycling emotional knee jerk reactions.

That's a ridiculous oversimplification. Also quite short-sighted to say "Israel shouldn't be there, so let's encourage something that could result in hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths".

First and foremost, Iran does not have the bomb, nor does it have plans to have an a-bomb.

Second, the people of Iran would never allow an attack on Israel to go unpunished - one of the MANY reasons they're not openly at war with one another. The Government of Iran knows that if they strike first, the possibility of an internal revolution would become a reality. If Israel attacks Iran first, killing civilians, the Iranian people will gladly raise arms against their aggressors - not to defend the government (they ****ing hate the Islamic Regime), but to defend their motherland. I have never seen or heard of a group of people have as much love and attachment for their history and culture as the Iranians do (including Persians, Kurds, Turks, Mazandarani, etc). IF Israel attacked Iran, and it would undo all of the work that the opposition within Iran has done over the last decade due to nationalism and cultural pride (similar to how an uprising against Khomeini was prevented by the Iran/Iraq war).

Third, Netanyahu's words are often falling on deaf ears because people know that a) the manifesto of his politcal party calls for the demise (essentially genocide) of Palestinians b) he has a "preemptive strike" mentality and uses fear to back it up (see second point for outcome of this)

Finally, the Islamic Regime's hatred of Israel is purely political, as a result of Israel's position during the October Surprise and the Iran/Contra Affair. (Compliments of Reagan/Bush).




Now let's just say for argument's sake, Iran did get a nuclear weapon... Having a nuclear weapon and NOT using it is much, much more impactful than actually using it. Using a nuclear weapon would instantly make you a target to be taken out by the ENTIRE WORLD and could leave to fallout. To actually have a nuclear weapon, means having a voice on the international platform - something the USA and England have both been trying to control in Iran since 1953. For Iran to gain international power means the wealthier nations would have to engage in discourse and negotiations with their "enemies" - and why do that when you control the majority of the planet's resources/wealth?


The existence of this thread is flat out ridiculous. We have an Iran thread in the politics forum already and all this thread does is further fearmongering propaganda.




TL;DR - Iran's government = bad, Iran's people = good. The argument that Iran would get a nuclear weapon is "slippery slope" fallacy to begin with, so to say they'd actually use it is further "slippery slope" speculation on top of speculation.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Again, not exactly terrorists. A lot of those rocket attacks are retaliation for Israeli attacks against the Gaza Strip. And do you honestly expect Hamas to just stand and do nothing while Israel continues to occupy Gaza's airspace and waters? Or as how they continue to deny the existence of a Palestinian state.


It's funny because it's completely ignorant. The Egyptian government will never give Hamas legitimacy because it will give the Muslim Brotherhood legitimacy. They are expanding the buffer zone between Gaza and Sinai. When the Egyptian government discovers new tunnels, they destroy them, like they have done just most recently:
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Eg...ng-tunnel-uncovered-between-Sinai-Gaza-388036

http://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-steps-up-efforts-for-gaza-buffer-after-discovery-of-more-tunnels/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-destroys-1370-gaza-smuggling-tunnels/

And the Egyptian government has announced that they are freezing Hamas assets and arresting Hamas members just a couple of days ago:
http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2015/...o-be-arrested-assets-frozen-justice-minister/

So in this instance, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. And that is why I laugh.


Which is Syrian territory that has been illegally occupied by Israel.


What happened in response to decades worth of American abuse on Iran like overthrowing their democratically elected government and supporting a brutal dictator there while working to delegitimize them.


Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly terrorist groups. They are political organizations that just so happen to work to defend their territories against Israel.


Empty meaningless words.


Except Hamas rockets are worthless thanks to Israel's Iron Dome. Almost none of them actually did any damage to Israel and those attacks again, are in retaliation against Israeli aggression. Israel on the other hand has bombed schools, hospitals, UN facilities, residential areas, etc. Please tell me how that was restraint? And you're acting as if the Gaza Strip is Israeli territory when it isn't.

What happened was essentially the equivalent of me going after you with a paintball gun and you retaliating against me with an M61 Vulcan.


Never tried to portray modern day Iran as a free society to begin with. It's authoritarian, thus the point you're trying to make is moot. But just because Iran has a theocratic autocratic government doesn't mean that they want to wipe themselves to oblivion. They want to stay in power first and foremost. That is how every nation acts. North Korea acts "crazy" for the exact same reason.


Hitler comparisons are so baseless.

Some sort of jab? 1 ) I do not watch fox news. 2) what you said in terms of boarder security is incorrect. Lets keep this clean.

I say it as a jab because you're 100% wrong.

I won't even bother replying to Taarna, seems like you've got this one covered. Also, maybe consider merging that thread with this one?

 

[Taarna]

Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly terrorist groups. They are political organizations that just so happen to work to defend their territories against Israel. - Hippie_hunter.

Any group that targets civilians is a terror group. These groups teach hate to the young, and act as suicide bombers! Politics you say? Really Hippe? Really?!

You are aware these are the same people that were cheering in the streets on 9-11.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Any group that targets civilians is a terror group. These groups teach hate to the young, and act as suicide bombers! Politics you say? Really Hippe? Really?!

When a group is pushed into a corner and put into a situation of desperation, they are going to use desperate tactics that seem unsavory to our Western ideals. This concept of what is and what isn't a terrorist group is so anachronistic to the realities of the modern world.

They are taught to hate because Israel has occupied their lands and oppressed them for decades. But I guess in your world, they should just be completely okay with Israel constantly ****ing them up the ass.

You are aware these are the same people that were cheering in the streets on 9-11.

They were cheering because they see us as the oppressors. We're the ones who keep on arming Israel to attack them.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Any group that targets civilians is a terror group. These groups teach hate to the young, and act as suicide bombers! Politics you say? Really Hippe? Really?!

This is the one point I agree with you and disagree with hippie, however, the same can be extended to world Governments including Israel, Iran and the USA. Until world governments can learn to remove politics and law from universal truths and justice, they will forever be terrorists in my eyes.

You are aware these are the same people that were cheering in the streets on 9-11.

This is just another example of how horribly ignorant you are of the Iranian situation - in Iran, there were countless candlelight vigils all over the country. A moment of silence was also held at a very high profile, national soccer match in Tehran. You have this image of Iranians that just doesn't exist. The people of Iran are good people, full of so much love - sacrifice and putting another before oneself is actually a part of Iranian culture called "taarof".

Let's also not forget that historically, Persians and Jews have been a very strong alliance going back as far as 2500 years ago, solidifying religious equality in the first charter of human rights. You want to fix Iran? Show your support for the Iranian people. Let them know that the world stands with them and let them topple the government. They almost did it in 2009, but then Michael Jackson died and the world left them in the dark.

 

[Feenix]

What happened was essentially the equivalent of me going after you with a paintball gun and you retaliating against me with an M61 Vulcan.

Clearly, the Israelis aren't scared of Hamas. They sit on the cliffs close to the border and watch their Iron Dome shoot Hamas' rockets out of the sky.

Hamas is trolling Israel and Israel is taking the bait. They should know better.

 

[Thundercrack85]

First and foremost, Iran does not have the bomb, nor does it have plans to have an a-bomb.

Did the Ayatollah tell you that? Cause you know, you have to take what he tells you with a grain of salt.

Second, the people of Iran would never allow an attack on Israel to go unpunished - one of the MANY reasons they're not openly at war with one another. The Government of Iran knows that if they strike first, the possibility of an internal revolution would become a reality. If Israel attacks Iran first, killing civilians, the Iranian people will gladly raise arms against their aggressors - not to defend the government (they ****ing hate the Islamic Regime), but to defend their motherland. I have never seen or heard of a group of people have as much love and attachment for their history and culture as the Iranians do (including Persians, Kurds, Turks, Mazandarani, etc). IF Israel attacked Iran, and it would undo all of the work that the opposition within Iran has done over the last decade due to nationalism and cultural pride (similar to how an uprising against Khomeini was prevented by the Iran/Iraq war).

I think the Israeli military turning Tehran and every city in Iran into a smoldering crater would be a bigger deterrent than the people of Iran being unhappy. But that's good.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Just for the record, Hamas is a terrorist group. And a rather bad one. On a scale from 1 to 10, with ISIS being 10, and 1 being animal rights group, they're like a 9.

I'm annoyed with Israel's policies towards Palestinians, but let's call a spade a spade. Hamas targets civilians, and uses Palestinian civilians as human shields.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Human shields implies that they're being held against their will. Hamas wasn't forcing the residents of Gaza to act as human shields. Now while I certainly believe that there is a degree of complicity for Hamas in regards to the deaths of civilians in Gaza, but saying that they were using them as human shields goes a little far. I would say that Hamas unfortunately sees them as collateral damage.

But you also have to take into account other factors. The Gaza Strip is a very small parcel of territory that is extremely densely populated. They need to put those weapons somewhere but because there is no room for proper facilities in the Gaza Strip, Hamas has no choice but to utilize what they have. The Gaza Strip also has to deal with sanctions from the West and other Arab Nations, are blockaded by Israel and Egypt, and thus have no real way of remedying that situation.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Did the Ayatollah tell you that? Cause you know, you have to take what he tells you with a grain of salt.

Excuse me? You like to talk a lot of **** on these forums, thundercrack. That's insanely offensive. I gave numerous reasons as to why I came to that conclusion. Do not equate my stance to blind ignorance to a man who is responsible for the persecution of countless of my family members, the denial of their education, the loss of my parents jobs and their need to escape the country through gunfire while cradling two children. It's very ignorant of you and you're better than that. I put you on my ignore list for a reason, but unfortunately when you quote my posts, I get a notification for it.

I think the Israeli military turning Tehran and every city in Iran into a smoldering crater would be a bigger deterrent than the people of Iran being unhappy. But that's good.

You're absolutely mental.