What if Iran gets nuclear weapons?

[herakles]

Worse. You remove the secular tyrants and it opens the floodgate for the fanatic-tyrants. In a lose-lose situation, I'd rather the former be left in power over the later.

Yup! Thanks Obama for essentially creating ISIS and sit by for 6 months while they slaughtered Christians and other minorities in Syria, Iraq and Libya.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Haha right, ya Obama created ISIS. Def wasn't the idiot president who waged an unwinnable war in the region based on outright lies his people told the American public

 

[herakles]

Haha right, ya Obama created ISIS. Def wasn't the idiot president who waged an unwinnable war in the region based on outright lies his people told the American public

Ok let's blame Bush for everything again. The Iraq war didn't cause the Arab Spring!

So supporting the Arab Spring which led to the overthrow of a trusted American Ally and giving arms to the Syrian "rebels" who turned into ISIS is ok? John McCain should be removed from his seat for hugging it out with those ISIS leaders!

Also the President sitting on his hands for months when ISIS in a eerily familiar move made all Christians wear marked clothing before they started slaughtering them is ok?

Face it the President can't continue to ride on Bin Laden's death and blame Bush. For all his executive orders not once has he used that to bypass the red tape to rearm the Kurds and Jordanians. But to roll over on the Iran nuke deal and call that a victory is insulting the intelligence of everyone!

 

[Victarion]

No, but rolling in and deposing people like Saddam, or trying to oust Assad, leaves you with someone worse.

 

[chamber-music]

The CIA, Mossad and others have been trying to delay Iran's enrichment program for years through computer viruses and killing their scientists. We have tried sanctions as well.

Negotiation was the only card left on the table. No sane person in any government wants to go start a war with Iran. We have enough fires burning in the Middle East without starting another one. Military action would probably only destabilise the region further.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Ok let's blame Bush for everything again. The Iraq war didn't cause the Arab Spring!

So supporting the Arab Spring which led to the overthrow of a trusted American Ally and giving arms to the Syrian "rebels" who turned into ISIS is ok? John McCain should be removed from his seat for hugging it out with those ISIS leaders!

Also the President sitting on his hands for months when ISIS in a eerily familiar move made all Christians wear marked clothing before they started slaughtering them is ok?

Face it the President can't continue to ride on Bin Laden's death and blame Bush. For all his executive orders not once has he used that to bypass the red tape to rearm the Kurds and Jordanians. But to roll over on the Iran nuke deal and call that a victory is insulting the intelligence of everyone!

News flash buddy, it's not our job to police the world. We are not the USA Christian Army that must intervene when anything happens to Christians anywhere. Bush's wars are what destabilized the region and ISIS grew a foothold through the Syrian civil war and spread from there. Obama made the hard and call and the right call to not send ground troops for something that was never going to have an end. The more we try to press our will onto the middle east the more we will create terrotist, that's a simple fact. And Obama most certainly did not rool over on any deal with Iran since you seem to be ignorant of the fact the NO DEAL HAS BEEN MADE. All that is in place is a framework to start making the deal. Maybe you should give FAUX news a rest and try and form your own opinions?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Yup! Thanks Obama for essentially creating ISIS and sit by for 6 months while they slaughtered Christians and other minorities in Syria, Iraq and Libya.

I find this outrage hilarious, why aren't you calling out for Obama to do something about Boko Haram in Nigeria? Oh we don't have an ally like Israel force feeding FAUX news your opinion on that situation? Got it.

Should we step into the South Sudanese civil war that going on right now too? And let me guess, Obama screwed up the Ukraine by not doing something against Russia as well huh? What about the insurgency in Thailand? Do you see how dumb it is to expect Obama to waste our tax payers money on every stupid conflict? We have problems at home and need to focus on our country, let every other country deal with their own problems. I'm not opposed to arming the right groups if we know they are going to be an ally but look how well that worked out when we armed insurgents in Afghanistan against Russia. If you arm or assist that wrong group next thing you know you have the next Osama Bin Laden with an American made weapon in his hands

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

"[If Iran were to be attacked] the United States would obviously be blamed and we could possibly be the target of retaliation from Iran, striking our ships, striking our military bases, and there are economic consequences to that attack….which could impact a very fragile economy in Europe and a fragile economy here in the United States," former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta predicted in 2011. General Anthony Zinni, former CENTCOM commander, put it more clearly, "I think anybody that believes that it would be a clean strike and it would be over and there would be no reaction is foolish," he said in 2009. And former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates explained that "such an attack would make a nuclear-armed Iran inevitable. They would just bury the program deeper and make it more covert." "The results of an American or Israeli military strike on Iran could, in my view, prove catastrophic, haunting us for generations in that part of the world," he said.

What some folks with a bit more knowledge than most of us have to say on the situation. Feel free to click the hotlinks if you would like to read more in depth about it

 

[Marvolo]

It seems like every day I check the news Tom Cotton's name pops up and its accompanied by his little pearls of "wisdom".

"Even if military action were required -- and we certainly should have kept the credible threat of military force on the table throughout which always improves diplomacy -- the president is trying to make you think it would be 150,000 heavy mechanized troops on the ground in the Middle East again as we saw in Iraq. That's simply not the case," Cotton told Tony Perkins on the Family Research Council's Washington Watch program, according to CNN.

"It would be something more along the lines of what President Clinton did in December 1998 during Operation Desert Fox," he added. "Several days of air and naval bombing against Iraq's weapons of mass destruction facilities for exactly the same kind of behavior -- for interfering with weapons inspectors and for disobeying Security Council resolutions. All we're asking is that the president simply be as tough as in the protection of America's national security interest as Bill Clinton was."

Yep, putting a gun to the head of the other party always makes diplomacy so much easier. Hell, lets just shoot them and then we dont have to listen to them and we win the negotiations. Right? Thats how diplomacy works, right?

Seriously someone shut this fool up.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Are you serious?(maybe grudges is too simplified a way to put it)

They have a long history against each other. It's just a fact. I didn't say anything about us being better or they're lesser. I didn't way their culture is fueling it.

The simple fact is that many of these countries have long histories.

We(American and the West) caused/fueled some of it, but the facts are these.

Your generalisation is what I'm taking issue with and calling bigoted.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Also, Herakles just got rekt. Hahaha

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Seriously someone shut this fool up.

Or at least tell him that "diplomacy" means the opposite of what he thinks it means haha

 

[herakles]

News flash buddy, it's not our job to police the world. We are not the USA Christian Army that must intervene when anything happens to Christians anywhere. Bush's wars are what destabilized the region and ISIS grew a foothold through the Syrian civil war and spread from there. Obama made the hard and call and the right call to not send ground troops for something that was never going to have an end. The more we try to press our will onto the middle east the more we will create terrotist, that's a simple fact. And Obama most certainly did not rool over on any deal with Iran since you seem to be ignorant of the fact the NO DEAL HAS BEEN MADE. All that is in place is a framework to start making the deal. Maybe you should give FAUX news a rest and try and form your own opinions?

First, So it is ok to sit by and watch tens of thousands die just because of who they worship? Those Assyrians, Chaldeans, Kurds and Yazidi are indigenous of the Mid East! They were told in Mosul to mark themselves so it would be easier to identify themselves.

So with your mentality 4 million Armenians Greeks and Assyrians died at the hand of the Ottoman Turks who in turn inspired Hitler to kill 6 million Jews.

Second, Iran will not be forced into allowing surprise visits from the UN. Iran is still screaming Death to America.

 

[herakles]

Also, Herakles just got rekt. Hahaha

Stupid!

 

[Asteroid-Man]

First, So it is ok to sit by and watch tens of thousands die just because of who they worship? Those Assyrians, Chaldeans, Kurds and Yazidi are indigenous of the Mid East! They were told in Mosul to mark themselves so it would be easier to identify themselves.

So with your mentality 4 million Armenians Greeks and Assyrians died at the hand of the Ottoman Turks who in turn inspired Hitler to kill 6 million Jews.

Second, Iran will not be forced into allowing surprise visits from the UN. Iran is still screaming Death to America.

To you first point, djKiddVicious pre-emptively gave you a response in his second post. Scroll up and read it. No one is denying the atrocities that are occurring around the world - what most educated people are trying to tell you here is that it's not as much an issue of "social justice" as it is about "politics". So keep spitting all of these facts about the horrors that are going on in Iran, but don't you dare attempt to use the mere possibility of danger against the Israeli civilians when the plight of the Iranian people has been raging on for nearly four decades. Even still, if I heard an American politician tell me, to my face, that he wanted to wage war on Iran because of the plight of the people of Iran, I'd slap him in the face. Don't make a profit off of the suffering of the innocent. Don't pretend to mean goodwill when your intentions are good income.

I would have so much more respect for politicians if they flat out said "we're making this decision based on the best financial outcome for us... and by "us" I mean us politicians". Would I be happy? No - but that's what they're doing anyway. You just see their lies at face value and go "Woo! America! Saviours of the world/Likud. We're the best and **** everyone else for not listening to us."

Stupid!

As always, phenomenal rebuttal ol' chap! Still waiting on your answers to the last set of questions and posts directed towards you.

 

[herakles]

I find this outrage hilarious, why aren't you calling out for Obama to do something about Boko Haram in Nigeria? Oh we don't have an ally like Israel force feeding FAUX news your opinion on that situation? Got it.

Should we step into the South Sudanese civil war that going on right now too? And let me guess, Obama screwed up the Ukraine by not doing something against Russia as well huh? What about the insurgency in Thailand? Do you see how dumb it is to expect Obama to waste our tax payers money on every stupid conflict? We have problems at home and need to focus on our country, let every other country deal with their own problems. I'm not opposed to arming the right groups if we know they are going to be an ally but look how well that worked out when we armed insurgents in Afghanistan against Russia. If you arm or assist that wrong group next thing you know you have the next Osama Bin Laden with an American made weapon in his hands

First of all Bin Laden's hate towards the US "officially" started when the Saudi's allowed American troops to be stationed there during and after the Gulf War. He was pissed that a "Crusader" Army was in his "holy land".

Second Russia is a totally different animal any other US adversary because they have Nukes. They are provide Europe with most of it's Nat Gas.

If Iran gets Nukes then they will be treated totally different then they are now.

Boko Haram should be dealt with just like the Sudanese government but unfortunately both areas have nothing to give us.

Also ISIS is doing far worse things than Boko Haram and Sudan.

Just look at Serbia. We bombed them.

I hate to admit this but we that is the West don't care about Africans and East Asians. We only care when there is Oil, Coal, Copper, and Natural Gas in the nations where there is genocide. That is why Boko Haram, Sudan, Kenya, Kumar Ruge,

One of reasons why we went to Afghanistan?
http://www.livescience.com/47682-rare-earth-minerals-found-under-afghanistan.html

I get it. ALL of you think it is ok for Iran to have Nukes or Nuclear power but we NEED to be more forceful. They have been lying to the West the whole time. I do not believe that Iran only has 16,000 centrifuges. I bet they have 10 times that at least. If we allow Iran to get Nukes then the Saudi's will want them so will the Egyptians. Do we really want this to happen?

Go ahead and use your fancy college fallacy words to attack me but in the end I will be right. Iran will get a bomb and they will continue to use Hamas and Hezbollah to fight it's proxy war with Israel and the US. They will use a dirty bomb in Israel or the US too!?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Ok let's blame Bush for everything again.

Actually a significant portion of the blame can go to the Bush Administration in this instance. The Iraq War created a power vacuum in Iraq with the overthrow of Saddam's Baathist government. The reason why ISIS was able to make such gains quickly was because the military operations were controlled by former Baathist generals who kicked out when the Iraqi armed forces were disbanded. And the Bush Administration supported a government that alienated the Sunni population within Iraq that drove them into the arms of ISIS.

The Iraq war didn't cause the Arab Spring!

No, decades of suppressive authoritarian rule did.

So supporting the Arab Spring which led to the overthrow of a trusted American Ally

Yes, because supporting dictators is such great policy

and giving arms to the Syrian "rebels" who turned into ISIS is ok?

Not good policy.

Also the President sitting on his hands for months when ISIS in a eerily familiar move made all Christians wear marked clothing before they started slaughtering them is ok?

There are some things the Obama Administration deserves blame for. The biggest being that they initially saw ISIS as nothing more than a JV version of a terrorist squad.

Face it the President can't continue to ride on Bin Laden's death and blame Bush. For all his executive orders not once has he used that to bypass the red tape to rearm the Kurds and Jordanians. But to roll over on the Iran nuke deal and call that a victory is insulting the intelligence of everyone!

 

[Marvolo]

Can we put a bulletin up at the top of the politics thread that says, "There is no Iran deal yet. Only a framework."? Seriously, folks, there won't be any deal until at least June, and maybe not even by that point so Obama hasn't rolled over on anything yet.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

First of all Bin Laden's hate towards the US "officially" started when the Saudi's allowed American troops to be stationed there during and after the Gulf War. He was pissed that a "Crusader" Army was in his "holy land".

Second Russia is a totally different animal any other US adversary because they have Nukes. They are provide Europe with most of it's Nat Gas.

If Iran gets Nukes then they will be treated totally different then they are now.

Boko Haram should be dealt with just like the Sudanese government but unfortunately both areas have nothing to give us.

Also ISIS is doing far worse things than Boko Haram and Sudan.

Just look at Serbia. We bombed them.

I hate to admit this but we that is the West don't care about Africans and East Asians. We only care when there is Oil, Coal, Copper, and Natural Gas in the nations where there is genocide. That is why Boko Haram, Sudan, Kenya, Kumar Ruge,

One of reasons why we went to Afghanistan?
http://www.livescience.com/47682-rare-earth-minerals-found-under-afghanistan.html

I get it. ALL of you think it is ok for Iran to have Nukes or Nuclear power but we NEED to be more forceful. They have been lying to the West the whole time. I do not believe that Iran only has 16,000 centrifuges. I bet they have 10 times that at least. If we allow Iran to get Nukes then the Saudi's will want them so will the Egyptians. Do we really want this to happen?

Go ahead and use your fancy college fallacy words to attack me but in the end I will be right. Iran will get a bomb and they will continue to use Hamas and Hezbollah to fight it's proxy war with Israel and the US. They will use a dirty bomb in Israel or the US too!?

I am BEGGING you to PLEASE answer whatever questions you can from the below list without looking up the answers. It'll help me understand where you're coming from:



1. Who is Ferdowsi? (What was the social and cultural impact he had on the Persians)

2. What are the correlation between the caliphates and colonialists (if any)?

3. Who is Mohammad Mosadegh? What significant events in history happened surrounding him?

4. What event(s) sparked a resurgent interest in Islam in Iran?

5. When and how did the Islamic revolution happen?

6. Who did Jimmy Carter support during the Revolution?

7. What was Khomeini's position on the hostage situation? (as in his stance, not his political role)

8. How did Bani-Sadr and Reagan play into the hostage crisis?

9. What was the initial spark as to Israel and Iran becoming enemy states?

10. What was the result of the Iran/Iraq war as per public opinion of the Islamic Regime?

11. How does George Bush Sr play into questions 9 and 10?

12. What is the plight of the Baha'is in Iran?

13. What major event happened in Iran in 2009?

14. Do you think a pre-emptive strike on Iran by Israel or USA would be the solution to the current issue with Iran?

15. In what order would you rank the value of American lives, Israeli lives and Iranian lives?

16. Why is sex trafficking relevant to whether or not Iran will get nuclear weapons?

17. What is Iran's relationship with Saudi Arabia?

18. What part did the Mujahidin play in the Revolution and the Iran/Iraq war?

19. What is the difference between Persian and Iranian?

20. Are the interpretations of a religion absolute or based on an individual's bias?

 

[Batman jr.]

Worse. You remove the secular tyrants and it opens the floodgate for the fanatic-tyrants. In a lose-lose situation, I'd rather the former be left in power over the later.

Oh yeah.

Remember Khadaffi warning for what would happen after him...

There isn't even a government in Libya now, and look what happened to the Tunesian Ennahda party: they weren't the muslim brotherhood-change bringers the media hyped them to be.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

First, So it is ok to sit by and watch tens of thousands die just because of who they worship? Those Assyrians, Chaldeans, Kurds and Yazidi are indigenous of the Mid East! They were told in Mosul to mark themselves so it would be easier to identify themselves.

So with your mentality 4 million Armenians Greeks and Assyrians died at the hand of the Ottoman Turks who in turn inspired Hitler to kill 6 million Jews.

Second, Iran will not be forced into allowing surprise visits from the UN. Iran is still screaming Death to America.

I'll say again since you missed it in my first post: IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO POLICE THE WORLD People die and some are killed by militants all over the world, yes it sucks but it is not our problem. I don't care if they are Christian, Muslim, Sunni, whatever. Our job is to protect Americans. Period. End of statement.

You also seem to have no real concept that most folks in Iran actually love America and the ideals they stand for, the only reason they say death to America is because that's what the state wants. It means nothing to almost every average Iranian. Hell I'd venture to say it means nothing to even those in the government. If you want to see how the average Iranian is check out Anthony Bourdains No Reservations. He did an episode in Iran and every welcomed him into their homes and land without question, they fed him and tried to help him understand their culture. They are not bad people just because their government has them repeat a phrase that means nothing to them

First of all Bin Laden's hate towards the US "officially" started when the Saudi's allowed American troops to be stationed there during and after the Gulf War. He was pissed that a "Crusader" Army was in his "holy land".

Second Russia is a totally different animal any other US adversary because they have Nukes. They are provide Europe with most of it's Nat Gas.

If Iran gets Nukes then they will be treated totally different then they are now.

Boko Haram should be dealt with just like the Sudanese government but unfortunately both areas have nothing to give us.

Also ISIS is doing far worse things than Boko Haram and Sudan.

Just look at Serbia. We bombed them.

I hate to admit this but we that is the West don't care about Africans and East Asians. We only care when there is Oil, Coal, Copper, and Natural Gas in the nations where there is genocide. That is why Boko Haram, Sudan, Kenya, Kumar Ruge,

One of reasons why we went to Afghanistan?
http://www.livescience.com/47682-rare-earth-minerals-found-under-afghanistan.html

I get it. ALL of you think it is ok for Iran to have Nukes or Nuclear power but we NEED to be more forceful. They have been lying to the West the whole time. I do not believe that Iran only has 16,000 centrifuges. I bet they have 10 times that at least. If we allow Iran to get Nukes then the Saudi's will want them so will the Egyptians. Do we really want this to happen?

Go ahead and use your fancy college fallacy words to attack me but in the end I will be right. Iran will get a bomb and they will continue to use Hamas and Hezbollah to fight it's proxy war with Israel and the US. They will use a dirty bomb in Israel or the US too!?

So Russia has nukes therefore they can just do whatever the hell they want, got it. And you admit we gain nothing by helping out against Boko Haram so f*** Africa right? You also seem to misunderstand if the deal goes through they will have nuclear power but not the ability to make nuclear weapons. I welcome the idea of the people in the middle east getting nuclear power because it's relatively cheap and efficient. i also think it's rather hilarious you try to make it sound like having an education is a bad thing, truly the definition of irony. Most experts agree that the framework we have in place is a very good thing and a deal with Iran would also be a very good thing for all involved. Seriously, turn of FAUX news and the right wing blogs and try and educate yourself on the matter from an objective source. It makes a world of difference

 

[Asteroid-Man]

In addition to what DJKV is saying, citizens haven't willingly yelled "death to America" for nearly 40 years - and even then it was due to political reasons (see questionaire above). Now the only "Death" chant coming from Iran is "Death to the dictator" - I must also add that the translation isn't the best. When they say "marg" for "death", it doesn't mean they want to KILL the person, they're essentially saying "I hope you rot in hell/I hope you die/go jump off a bridge".

As per the policing thing, I think to an extent, every country should be held accountable for their injustices - does that include Iran? Yes - but it also includes the United States and every other country. How the WORLD has to handle the Iranian situation is a different question all together contrasting "Should the USA go to war with Iran?"

 

[Thundercrack85]

You also seem to have no real concept that most folks in Iran actually love America and the ideals they stand for, the only reason they say death to America is because that's what the state wants. It means nothing to almost every average Iranian.

You're going to have to back that one up with some evidence. Maybe among the urban middle class, but the Ayatollah actually has popular support in the country.

 

[chamber-music]

Someone saying death to my country and burning flags means nothing to me. As long as they don't plot or take up arms against my country or its citizens I couldn't care less.

I honestly don't know why people get their panties in bunch about some people millions of miles away burning knock off flags when there is far worst things going on.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

You're going to have to back that one up with some evidence. Maybe among the urban middle class, but the Ayatollah actually has popular support in the country.

I did provide evidence, watch the episode of Anthony Bourdain's No Reservations he did in Iran like I stated in the original post. He goes to markets and several other places with regular Iranians and they showed him nothing but kindness