Transformers What if the movie's not crap?

I hope future trailers show more of the Transformers side of this movie since so far it has just looked like the world is getting invaded by metal aliens.

How else would you categorize it? Accidentally or not, the Transformers invaded Earth. The Decepticons sought to mine Earth for its resources so they could process Energon. How is that difference from War of the Worlds or Independence Day? Alien ivasions, more often than no revolve around a species not born of Earth landing on earth, and procuring the raw materials of the planet. And usually, the want to get rid of those pesky humans, too!

As for the Transformers side of it, it's not enough that we've seen a military chopper, a mustang, a jet fighter, a semi truck, and a boombox "transform" into robots? How much of the "Transformers side" of the film do you really want to see before the release, so so many films get slammed for showing "too much" in trailers and commercials?
 
1. Agreed
2. I think the only reason why the TF's are around today and the Gobots aren't is for one simple reason. The Gobot toys were really lame. The TF designs were much better and sold better. I still remember the Gobots being lame when I was a kid. Everyone wanted the TF's. Not because of the characters on tv...the toys rocked.
3. I don't think the TF's gained such popularity because of great charcterization.
Why do you think Star Wars has the best selling toys in history? Because of the quality of of the plastic?

Opportunity to do what?
To show unimaginative people like yourself the true appeal and potential of Transformers and how to re-ignite your inner child again. It's a beautiful thing. ("rosebud" anyone?)

I admit, ILM effects may achieve this to a certain extent but that can achieve only so much without the right characterizations/subtext and story.
 
Why do you think Star Wars has the best selling toys in history? Because of the quality of of the plastic?

Your implication that it's because of the deep, intricate claracterizations and story development don't hold water, either. Take Boba Fett for example. That man got punked in Return of the Jedi, and people praise him as being so badass he never really was. Yeah, the fans who have read all the books and comics could probably go on and on about how he kicked ass in all these supplemental stories, but that's no good for fans of just the movies. And that's a big problem. The characters should be able to stand strong in each individual medium. We shouldn't have to wade through the comics, games and novels to see this character acheive his or her potential. The same with Jango Fett in Episode II. Played up like he was gonna wreck s**t, just for Mace Windu to chop his head off ten seconds after their fight starts!


To show unimaginative people like yourself the true appeal and potential of Transformers and how to re-ignite your inner child again. It's a beautiful thing. ("rosebud" anyone?)

Let me tell you something. As a child, Transformers was the FIRST cartoon I can vividly remember watching and loving. It's part of my childhood, and you have no place to tell me what elements are required for the movie to facilitate recapturing my "inner child". Your problem is, you refuse to accept that some fans haven't taken everything from the concept that you have, and you keep implying that we're to be looked down upon for it. Your posts are always dripping with elitism towards anyone who doesn't see what you see.

I admit, ILM effects may achieve this to a certain extent but that can achieve only so much without the right characterizations/subtext and story.

None of us have seen the film, so we can't say for a fact what the characterizations, subtext and story will be.
 
Why do you think Star Wars has the best selling toys in history? Because of the quality of of the plastic?


To show unimaginative people like yourself the true appeal and potential of Transformers and how to re-ignite your inner child again. It's a beautiful thing. ("rosebud" anyone?)

I admit, ILM effects may achieve this to a certain extent but that can achieve only so much without the right characterizations/subtext and story.

It’s funny…fans like you are such caricatures. Very stereotypical. The subject of the fanaticism is always different…Star Wars, Star Trek, some superhero property…but the arguments, insults and “holier than thou” sentiment is always the same. I love it. It’s a cool look at a interesting segment of the human psyche.

Anyway…My nephew LOVES Star Wars. He’s 9 years old. He had a Star Wars party for his 9th birthday and he and his little pals all dressed like Jedi. Out of the 12 or so kids in attendance, less than half have actually seen the original trilogy…my nephew included. Star Wars to them is a cool action figure line and a handful of really neat videogames. They know the prequels to an extent. Much like the TF’s, the toys sell themselves. Yeah I bought the toys as a kid because I wanted to be Luke or Han. This is a different generation now. They hardly know Luke or Han…or Anakin or Obi Wan for that matter.
 
How else would you categorize it? Accidentally or not, the Transformers invaded Earth. The Decepticons sought to mine Earth for its resources so they could process Energon. How is that difference from War of the Worlds or Independence Day? Alien ivasions, more often than no revolve around a species not born of Earth landing on earth, and procuring the raw materials of the planet. And usually, the want to get rid of those pesky humans, too!
Well the aliens from War of the Worlds and Independence Day were one-dimensional and homogeneous. They all looked alike, act alike, and had the same motivation. They were more mechanical than Transformers themselves. Ironic isn't it?

Transformers has alot more storytelling potential because Transformer mirror human behavior. They all have different personalities, histories and motivations. One autobot is afraid to fight another is willing to sacrifice everything for the cause. One decepticon wants to rule Cyberton another wants to nothing more than to serve Megatron or kill autobots. This is just the tipe of the iceberg and we all already out of basic alien invasion territory. You also have how transformers view each other and the war itself. Every Transformer has something unique to offer skill wise and thought wise just like human platoons. So it's really not your paint-by-the-numbers alien invasion flick. These aliens go through the same tragedy and honor of war that we do. Did War of the Worlds or Independence Day cover this territory?


Then you have the whole living machine/blade runner/ghost in the shell aspect where the question of what consitiuties a living thing and a soul. How are autobots brought into the world do they have viking funerals to pay respect to the dead. The cartoon episodes where they recover Optimus Pirmes dead body suggest they do. If the a "silly" cartoon for kids can explore these themes why not a major live action film franchise for young adults.

Then you have the origins of the Transformers. Decpticon were built for military porposes and autobots were built to be worker-slaves/consumers and scientist that learned to fight to free themselves from tyranny. Why throw these concepts away and give Transformers the LXG treatment? What would Braveheart mean to anyone if it was nothing but mindless swordfights? What would Star Wars mean to ppl if is was nothing but mindless lightsaber fights?

You can say Transformers didn't have the potential to be anything more than mindless giant robot fights but you're only fooling yourself.
 
It’s funny…fans like you are such caricatures. Very stereotypical. The subject of the fanaticism is always different…Star Wars, Star Trek, some superhero property…but the arguments, insults and “holier than thou” sentiment is always the same. I love it. It’s a cool look at a interesting segment of the human psyche.

Anyway…My nephew LOVES Star Wars. He’s 9 years old. He had a Star Wars party for his 9th birthday and he and his little pals all dressed like Jedi. Out of the 12 or so kids in attendance, less than half have actually seen the original trilogy…my nephew included. Star Wars to them is a cool action figure line and a handful of really neat videogames. They know the prequels to an extent. Much like the TF’s, the toys sell themselves. Yeah I bought the toys as a kid because I wanted to be Luke or Han. This is a different generation now. They hardly know Luke or Han…or Anakin or Obi Wan for that matter.
Have you seen Citzen Kane? Do you understand the significance of the final line?
 
No sir. I'm not going to lie and say I've seen it. Are you suggesting that I have to see it to understand fanaticism? Or to comprehend good filmmaking?
 
You can say Transformers didn't have the potential to be anything more than mindless giant robot fights but you're only fooling yourself.

I see a lot of potential in Transformers. I see a live action movie as a chance to IMPROVE upon the story/concept of Transformers...not just for a big action movie but as a chance to make it a big fun sci-fi epic (akin to Star Wars). For those that feel the past Transformers incarnations are nothing more than kids stuff, wouldn't you like to see it become more than that? Probably not from the way a lot of people post on here. Most would be happy to see a big blow'em'up alien invasion flick...you're going to get that. But I saw soo much more than that and it disheartens me that we might not get that.
 
Your implication that it's because of the deep, intricate claracterizations and story development don't hold water, either. Take Boba Fett for example. That man got punked in Return of the Jedi, and people praise him as being so badass he never really was. Yeah, the fans who have read all the books and comics could probably go on and on about how he kicked ass in all these supplemental stories, but that's no good for fans of just the movies. And that's a big problem. The characters should be able to stand strong in each individual medium. We shouldn't have to wade through the comics, games and novels to see this character acheive his or her potential. The same with Jango Fett in Episode II. Played up like he was gonna wreck s**t, just for Mace Windu to chop his head off ten seconds after their fight starts!
Star Wars had many characters. Some had a basic appeal and others had alot more depth and purpose. Obi Wan represents something different from Yoda who represents something different from Luke who represents something different from Jabba the Hut/Han Solo/Bobba Fett etc etc. These characters compliment each other and the dynamics of their relationship is what makes the lightsaber fights and sci-fi warfare so layered and beautiful.

Your assertion that writers/artist shouldn't dig through the source material is just strange? Why would Nolan base Batman Begin's purely on a single media source if there are plenty of great Batman stories to choose from? He can't take from Burton's Batman, Batman TAS, and Frank Miller comics for the same movie? He must limit himself to a single media rseource or story? Why? :huh:
 
Well the aliens from War of the Worlds and Independence Day were one-dimensional and homogeneous. They all looked alike, act alike, and had the same motivation. They were more mechanical than Transformers themselves. Ironic isn't it?

Transformers has alot more storytelling potential because Transformer mirror human behavior. They all have different personalities, histories and motivations. One autobot is afraid to fight another is willing to sacrifice everything for the cause. One decepticon wants to rule Cyberton another wants to nothing more than to serve Megatron or kill autobots. This is just the tipe of the iceberg and we all already out of basic alien invasion territory. You also have how transformers view each other and the war itself. Every Transformer has something unique to offer skill wise and thought wise just like human platoons. So it's really not your paint-by-the-numbers alien invasion flick. These aliens go through the same tragedy and honor of war that we do. Did War of the Worlds or Independence Day cover this territory?


Then you have the whole living machine/blade runner/ghost in the shell aspect where the question of what consitiuties a living thing and a soul. How are autobots brought into the world do they have viking funerals to pay respect to the dead. The cartoon episodes where they recover Optimus Pirmes dead body suggest they do. If the a "silly" cartoon for kids can explore these themes why not a major live action film franchise for young adults.

Then you have the origins of the Transformers. Decpticon were built for military porposes and autobots were built to be worker-slaves/consumers and scientist that learned to fight to free themselves from tyranny. Why throw these concepts away and give Transformers the LXG treatment? What would Braveheart mean to anyone if it was nothing but mindless swordfights? What would Star Wars mean to ppl if is was nothing but mindless lightsaber fights?

You can say Transformers didn't have the potential to be anything more than mindless giant robot fights but you're only fooling yourself.

When did I ever say the Transformers were mindless?!? My point was that there are too many people who want to ignore the fact that first and foremost, The transformers are lifeforms "ALIEN" to our planet, who have "INVADED" IT!! I wasn't dismissing the implications of them being individuals, or mirroring human behavior, and I've yet to see indication that that WON'T be part of this film. My point is, people keep complaining about the "alien invasion" aspect like it doesn't make sense in the context of reality. People complaining about the humans getting too much screentime. . . .THEY'RE ON EARTH!!!!

From a storytelling standpoint, but more specifically a marketing standpoint, they way they're portraying the film at THIS POINT, makes sense. At this point, where all we're supposed to be getting are minor glimpses of action and story in the trailers and commercials, there has to be an introductory point where the present the film and say, "These beings have come to Earth, some to destroy, some to protect." Which, I'll ad plays into all that detailed stuff you're taking about. Portrying the Autobots as beings who wish to preserve life. The filmmakers even had a contest, and fans voted to have Prime's classic line, "Freedom is the right of all setient beings" spoken in the film!

But like I said, first and foremost, There has to be a point, a beginning, where humanity at large is scared ****less. And they would be. The idea of this happening in real life is unfathomable. And the film needs to have that approach. Before we can connect with them and portray them as beings who will eventually assimilate into humanity, but when the story begins, they're aliens from outer space, plain and simple.
 
No sir. I'm not going to lie and say I've seen it. Are you suggesting that I have to see it to understand fanaticism? Or to comprehend good filmmaking?
Both.

The movie explains why the inner child should be cherished and valued, not ignored or repressed. It's also considered the greatest movie of all time.

BTW - The actor/writer/director who made it did voice acting work for a silly cartoon named Transformers. FYI :trans:
 
Star Wars had many characters. Some had a basic appeal and others had alot more depth and purpose. Obi Wan represents something different from Yoda who represents something different from Luke who represents something different from Jabba the Hut/Han Solo/Bobba Fett etc etc. These characters compliment each other and the dynamics of their relationship is what makes the lightsaber fights and sci-fi warfare so layered and beautiful.

*nitpicky fanboy moment* - Star Wars is less sci-fi than it is full-on fantasy.

Your assertion that writers/artist shouldn't dig through the source material is just strange. Why would Nolan base Batman Begin's purely on a single media source if there are plenty of great Batman stories to choose from? He can't take from Burton's Batman, Batman TAS, and Frank Miller comics for the same movie? He must limit himself to a single media rseource or story? Why? :huh:

I wouldn't have an issue if they did. My assertion is that I'm not going to cry foul about what they chose or didn't choose to use from the source material until I see the final film.
 
Both.

The movie explains why the inner child should be cherished and valued, not ignored or repressed. It's also considered the greatest movie of all time.

BTW - The actor/writer/director who made it did voice acting work for a silly cartoon named Transformers. FYI :trans:

Are you implying that Orson Wells had this sentiment in mind when he agreed to play Unicron?
 
Both.

The movie explains why the inner child should be cherished and valued, not ignored or repressed. It's also considered the greatest movie of all time.

BTW - The actor/writer/director who made it did voice acting work for a silly cartoon named Transformers. FYI :trans:

Since Orson Wells did Unicrons voice, TF:The Movie is a brilliant film? (and I'm not saying you said it was brilliant...I'm just asking.

I just don’t see how what you’re saying is relevant. I wish you could see my house. My “office” is little more than a toyshop. It’s got shelves and shelves of all the toys I’ve collected since childhood. Transformers has it’s own case. I’m at work right now and just here at work I have a Spiderman figure on my computer beside a Supergirl statuette. A Raphael ninja turtle happy meal toy is leaning on my phone and a Spiderman sticker (from the Spiderman 3 action figure packaging) on my wall. My entire adult life has been revolving around my inner child. This changes nothing about the way I feel about the upcoming Transformers movie. I’ve loved TF’s from day one but I’ve never found the inner depth that evidently you must see/feel. That’s no indication of how “deep” I may or may not be. This is one issue…one property…that I don’t happen to “live and breathe” for. And frankly, I can’t understand how anyone could “live and breathe” for the Transformers. I enjoy it to no end but I’m able to keep it in perspective. I enjoy it on my own level. If someone happens to think it’s rubbish…that’s fine with me. If someone happens to see my TF wallpaper here at work and thinks I’m ******ed for it…that’s fine too. I’m going to go watch the movie, and collect the toys (that I like). If the movie is complete crap…oh well. RID was crap. So were most of the other incarnations. No big deal. I still love the premise and the toys. The new comics are quite enjoyable too. But for some reason, to you, I guess I’m not are “true fan”. Funny.
 
No. People complain that Bumblebee should not have been a race car that runs rings around Jazz (who was formally a Porshe). He could have been a Cooper. Heck, he could have been a little, spritely, yellow Solstice (which Jazz is) and nobody would have cared.

Bumblebee was never "strong." He was never "fast" and muscle-powered. He never towered over ANY Autobot... and in this movie he towers over Jazz... who is a midget.

Essentially he's been switched with Jazz. And, that's stupid.
Switched? Hopefully he won't also be second in command.
 
I see a lot of potential in Transformers. I see a live action movie as a chance to IMPROVE upon the story/concept of Transformers...not just for a big action movie but as a chance to make it a big fun sci-fi epic (akin to Star Wars). For those that feel the past Transformers incarnations are nothing more than kids stuff, wouldn't you like to see it become more than that? Probably not from the way a lot of people post on here. Most would be happy to see a big blow'em'up alien invasion flick...you're going to get that. But I saw soo much more than that and it disheartens me that we might not get that.

Sorry for bumping but I'm curious about the question I (stupidly) imbedded in the paragraph.
 
Since Orson Wells did Unicrons voice, TF:The Movie is a brilliant film? (and I'm not saying you said it was brilliant...I'm just asking).
Not at all. But he probably saw alot more substance than Mikie Bay.

Lets look at some facts about Orson Welles.

1) Citizen Kane ended with "rosebud" (inner child is most important)

2) Responsible for the infamous War of the Worlds radio broadcast. It was so realistic and people where so gullible the radio program caused widespread panic. (power of deciet over the public + alien invasion program = decepticon concept)

3) Made a movie called F for Fake which explored nature of artistic fakery and even brings up the War of the Worlds radio broadcast (more than meets the eye)

Hell I wouldn't be suprise if Orson Welles ghost wrote Transformers for fun.



I just don’t see how what you’re saying is relevant. I wish you could see my house. My “office” is little more than a toyshop. It’s got shelves and shelves of all the toys I’ve collected since childhood. Transformers has it’s own case. I’m at work right now and just here at work I have a Spiderman figure on my computer beside a Supergirl statuette. A Raphael ninja turtle happy meal toy is leaning on my phone and a Spiderman sticker (from the Spiderman 3 action figure packaging) on my wall. My entire adult life has been revolving around my inner child. This changes nothing about the way I feel about the upcoming Transformers movie. I’ve loved TF’s from day one but I’ve never found the inner depth that evidently you must see/feel. That’s no indication of how “deep” I may or may not be. This is one issue…one property…that I don’t happen to “live and breathe” for. And frankly, I can’t understand how anyone could “live and breathe” for the Transformers. I enjoy it to no end but I’m able to keep it in perspective. I enjoy it on my own level. If someone happens to think it’s rubbish…that’s fine with me. If someone happens to see my TF wallpaper here at work and thinks I’m ******ed for it…that’s fine too. I’m going to go watch the movie, and collect the toys (that I like). If the movie is complete crap…oh well. RID was crap. So were most of the other incarnations. No big deal. I still love the premise and the toys. The new comics are quite enjoyable too. But for some reason, to you, I guess I’m not are “true fan”. Funny.
I never said you weren't a true fan, but I just think it's strange for a lifelong TF fan to tell another TF fan that the iconic characters don't deserve to be in this movie.
 
I never said you weren't a true fan, but I just think it's strange for a lifelong TF fan to tell another TF fan that the iconic characters don't deserve to be in this movie.
That's not what he said and you know it.
 
i don't know much about the script, but from what i can tell the mythology is changed up a bit to fit a realistic, modern day Earth which is fine with me. a lot of the mythology works perfectly in a cartoon and a comic but my opinion is that compromise is needed in order to fit the beginning of Earth's involvement with the TFs into a live action movie. i think a lot of G1 enthusiasts wanted an uber sci fi movie with 50 plus Transformers and lots of intergalactic travel ala Star Wars and while i'd love to see the live action movies go in that direction some day...i'm glad they went with telling the story about how Earth would be affected by real giant robots running around on our planet. i know a lot of fans like to complain that this story isn't being told from the Transformers' point of view but telling the first movie through the TFs eyes would make the movie less fantastical to me.

How does making them have limitless energy supply and taking away the core "Earth's bountiful nat'l resources" plot fit modern day??? Instead, they're looking for a baby-making machine. I mean, do you know what's going on in the world today? The energy crisis/nat'l resources thing is MORE relevant TODAY than it was even in 1983! Please tell me!

And, I know I for one didn't want what you go on to say (50 bots, intergalactic epic). I just wanted to be able to somewhat recognize the characters and feel an affinity towards them.

What's in a name? I mean seriously, you could rename all these characters in the movie Scooter, Turbo, Crasher, and Cop-Tur. And the story would make a lot more sense. Think about it.
 
Not at all. But he probably saw alot more substance than Mikie Bay.

Lets look at some facts about Orson Welles.

1) Citizen Kane ended with "rosebud" (inner child is most important)

2) Responsible for the infamous War of the Worlds radio broadcast. It was so realistic and people where so gullible the radio program caused widespread panic. (power of deciet over the public + alien invasion program = decepticon concept)

3) Made a movie called F for Fake which explored nature of artistic fakery and even brings up the War of the Worlds radio broadcast (more than meets the eye)

Hell I wouldn't be suprise if Orson Welles ghost wrote Transformers for fun.




I never said you weren't a true fan, but I just think it's strange for a lifelong TF fan to tell another TF fan that the iconic characters don't deserve to be in this movie.

I never said or suggested that the iconic characters don't deserve to be in the movie. I'm extremely happy that some of my favorites ARE in the movie. I think pretty much all the autobots look great. And I like that they're based on G1'ers rather than seeing Wildride and Burnout. I just find it strange that lifelong fans of the TF's aren't stoked that they're getting a live action movie. With a red & blue semi named Optimus. And a yellow car named Bumblebee, etc. Personally, I couldn't ask for a whole lot more. Again, I've sat and watched generation after generation of less than stellar versions of the TF's. The fact that the movie is hitting this close to the mark (the "mark" being G1) after all we've seen is fantastic. When I see some of those cartoons that have come and gone and think of what this movie easily could have ended up looking like (Firetruck Prime and a Dragon/Racecar/hand-thingie Megatron), I'm thankful for what I think the movie is shaping up as.
 
That's kind of personal. Why do you ask?
Before I had kids I was as passionate as you about films, music, etc. Since having kids my perspective has changed a great deal. In the grand scheme of things the end result of the movie just isn't that important to me.

I see so few movies due to cost (tickets, food, babysitters, etc) that I can't afford to go into anything with a preconceived notion or any expectations good or bad. The economics just don't work out. I take it as it comes and make a determination to enjoy something from it good or bad.

Life is too short for me to get as worked up as you and CFlash get.
 

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