Sequels What is Fox's gameplan?

[Mike Murdock]

If the movies remain good, there is no downside to the deal. None. Only positives, and this time They can do it right. Start from scratch and do all the major characters Justice, instead of just Wolverine

I get that you don't agree with me, but you haven't even acknowledged my arguments. Do you disagree with my point that a lot of these spinoffs aren't likely to happen with a reboot because they'll be focusing on doing "all the major characters justice"? Or do you agree with my point and just think that's worth the cost of doing those characters right?

 

[Rorschach2012]

I get that you don't agree with me, but you haven't even acknowledged my arguments. Do you disagree with my point that a lot of these spinoffs aren't likely to happen with a reboot because they'll be focusing on doing "all the major characters justice"? Or do you agree with my point and just think that's worth the cost of doing those characters right?

I would be more than happy with XMEN being prioritized over Inhumans, Black Panther 2, and Dr Strange 2. The XMEN are so much more important than any of those characters

Of course I would want all those movies but I'd choose MCU XMEN over any of those movies

Also I don't want the current XMEN universe to continue. Don't want any more spinoffs. Would rather just have a restart and they can get to those spinoffs later

 

[Sithborg]

Pretty much no one feels the way you do, you're an exception. Made evident by the massive financial and critical success that the MCU has received. It's so much more successful than the XMEN movies. I think if fox worked with marvel the movies would make a lot more money

For the most part, the X films have had bit stronger critical success than the MCU. Especially when Singer has been behind the helm.

And does it really matter that the MCU has had more success financially? The X films are doing fine, as evident by Fox going forward with spin offs.

Plain simple, I like the X-films under Singer. I couldn't get that under Feige. I would rather Fox take a few risks and give each film a bit more freedom, rather than cow tow to Feige's house style.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I would be more than happy with XMEN being prioritized over Inhumans, Black Panther 2, and Dr Strange 2. The XMEN are so much more important than any of those characters

But I think we can get both with Fox still being in charge.

Besides, that wasn't my main complaint. My complaint is we'll be back to just the core X-Men and won't be getting things like the New Mutants and actually expanding the X-Men universe.

 

[def28]

Creative and storytelling debates aside...

If a situation ever happened where Feige/Disney/Marvel were making X-Men films, it's kind of crazy to think they would not be essentially making a new universe of films with X-Men. That's landing on a new gold mine for them, and they won't make their cash by just having only one film. Otherwise it's of little use to them as a whole. X-Men is not a solo character IP. There's over 20 potential series of films in there.

They would produce multiple X-Men team films green lit fast. Building to a new larger film universe as well as X-Men crossovers, Avenger crossovers, Disney XD cartoons, Disney infinite, characters in tv shows and an insane amount of merch. We are getting 2 Spidey films in the next 3 years and a Star Wars film every single year because they know what they got and don't like to sit on what can be potential money. They were announced almost instantly when a deal was made to acquire the characters. They would be fools to not even have a plan for X-Men as we speak in case a situation presents itself and Fox wants to play ball.

X-Men is big, and Feige is well aware on how to make the most money out of them for the studio. He might not put together films Singer fans like, but he knows the X-Men universe more then any other studio head. When it comes to connecting, expanding and marketing that's where Marvel no doubt holds a clear advantage over other studios. I don't see why X-Men would be any exception.

 

[psylockolussus]

Without the MCU, we will never get to see the X Men we actually want to see. Comic book accurate costumes will never happen otherwise

Your opinion. Not the general consensus. Based on box-office numbers, people are supporting what Fox is doing with the X-Men.

And if Fox could reboot their other film series, I don't see why they cannot do that with X-Men 10 years from now. Its small minded if you think the only way for success is a reboot set in the MCU.

 

[Mike Murdock]

If a situation ever happened where Feige/Disney/Marvel were making X-Men films, it's kind of crazy to think they would not be essentially making a new universe of films with X-Men. That's landing on a new gold mine for them, and they won't make their cash by just having only one film. Otherwise it's of little use to them as a whole. X-Men is not a solo character IP. There's over 20 potential series of films in there.

But could they do all this without putting other films on hold to make room?

They would produce multiple X-Men team films green lit fast. Building to a new larger film universe as well as X-Men crossovers, Avenger crossovers, Disney XD cartoons, Disney infinite, characters in tv shows and an insane amount of merch.

Keep in mind that the cartoons and merchandize are things they can do now. With merchandize, that depends on whether they get full merchandize rights back. I don't think it'll depend on whether they have the right to put them in the MCU. If Fox still gets half the profits there, it complicates things.

We are getting 2 Spidey films in the next 3 years and a Star Wars film every single year because they know what they got and don't like to sit on what can be potential money.

Keep in mind we're not getting two Spidey films produced by the Marvel guys. We're getting one Spidey film by the Marvel guys (with 100% of the profit going to Sony) and one Sony cartoon with no Marvel involvement. We're getting a Spider-Man appearance in another film, but it's hardly a Spider-Man film.

And the issue isn't whether we can get at least an X-Men film by Marvel a year. The issue is whether Marvel can go from the planned three films a year to four films a year in order to add an X-Men film.

 

[Weather Witch]

Disney/Marvel also has 14 future films either coming out or in development (taking us up until summer 2020), so it's ploughing ahead regardless of the X-Men.

This is one of the reasons I don't want X-Men in the MCU. It's way too big already and there is no way we would see as much X-related movies as Fox is promising us right now. Sure which ones happen and which ones are succesful is something we'll just have to wait and see, but the MCU has way too much going on already.

Then again I suppose I am a part of the weird minority who thinks the MCU movies are cool and enjoyable, but not particularly good films. Even movies like Winter Soldier which were widely praised had some really lazy storytelling and cut too many scenes. Ant-Man to me was the best the MCU has been since phase 1 though, basically because it was another Iron Man 1.

I also like the Netflix and TV-series. I just don't want the MCU to get their hands on characters like Magneto.

The foundation of this franchise is too weak to support a successful cinematic universe.

You mean a franchise that has been going for 15 years and is coming off 3 movies that have been very well received?

Sure the future of the franchise isn't set in stone, but the First Class trilogy is a really solid foundation, unlike Man of Steel for example.

The most obvious reason why FOX won't do it is because there really is no reason why they would even think about it currently when they have several projects currently planned or projects in the making

They will continue to release movies until there really is something to be concerned about and they are at their most desperate which will not be within the next 2 years so the argument really is pointless

This about sums it up though. Fox has no reason at all to even consider splitting their profits and all that, until the movies they have planned failed, and so far nothing seems to hint at that.

 

[def28]

But could they do all this without putting other films on hold to make room?

Of course they could. Why would you think otherwise?

Keep in mind that the cartoons and merchandize are things they can do now. With merchandize, that depends on whether they get full merchandize rights back. I don't think it'll depend on whether they have the right to put them in the MCU. If Fox still gets half the profits there, it complicates things.

They would def need a better deal. If X-Men are in the MCU then that means Marvel is getting the say on how they are represented in film. There's clearly some issues between the studio and X-Men, and none of us really know the exact details. But Marvel aint making anywhere near as much money on Wolverine as they should or would be liking to to be.

Keep in mind we're not getting two Spidey films produced by the Marvel guys. We're getting one Spidey film by the Marvel guys (with 100% of the profit going to Sony) and one Sony cartoon with no Marvel involvement. We're getting a Spider-Man appearance in another film, but it's hardly a Spider-Man film.

Marvel's in control of Spidey now. That's why he can play in the MCU. If they were not a then a deal wouldn't have been made. This is to their benefit not just for fans. It's for Marvel making more money on Spidey in the end.

And the issue isn't whether we can get at least an X-Men film by Marvel a year. The issue is whether Marvel can go from the planned three films a year to four films a year in order to add an X-Men film.

Why wouldn't they? We have seen how fast they expand. Apocalypse is gonna be out in the same month as Civil War and same day as Alice and will still make cash. You don't think Marvel would put 5 films out spread through the year? Pretty sure we are building to that.

 

[Sithborg]

Marvel Studios is not that big yet. There is also the question of how big you want your very specialized film studio to get.

 

[def28]

Doesn't matter what any fan here wants though. This is all business. Look at their slate starting in 2018. People argued the same thing before they announced 3 films a year. Their intent is to grow as a business with all their money making toys in the sandbox. Not to acquire one of their most potentially lucrative comic IP's back and have it sit there.

 

[Sithborg]

And we have yet to see the results of their expansion.

 

[def28]

It's a pretty safe bet to say it will be successful haha. In under 10 years we will have seen practically every major Avenger IP and character Marvel owns established. With D listers like Inhumans and GOTG thrown in the mix as well. I don't understand the logic here that Marvel wouldn't want to cash in on X-Men if a situation presented itself. They cash in on literally everything.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

For the most part, the X films have had bit stronger critical success than the MCU.

NO. Marvel Studios has two films rated higher then the highest X-film (DoFP) and one (Guardians) equal to it....The Winter Soldier is only percentage points behind Days but ahead of the second best reviewed X-film, X2.

Of the twelve Marvel Studios films to date, three have been in the 90's on RT, so 25% of the films (and Winter Soldier is in striking distance and may still get there). Of the seven Fox X-films, only one has landed in the 90's, so 14% total. If you take away the Wolverine films and just count the X-Men, then it's one in five, so 20%, still a lower percentage then Marvel Studios......I didn't even mention the lowest rated entries for the respective studios, where Fox wins hands down with 38% (5.1/10) for X-Men Origins: Wolverine and 58% (5.9/10 ) for The Last Stand. Marvel Studios lowest, The Dark World, easily beats both with 66% and a 6.2/10 average.

Especially when Singer has been behind the helm.

Singer does great with the X-Men and Apocalypse will likely be another strong entry, but the stronger critical success argument is a bit disingenuous when posters are talking about the studios as a whole moving forward with these projects. The overall track record isn't really close based on the numbers I gave and overall reception (in general). I love the Singer films, but the X-Men franchise would absolutely take off in the MCU.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Of course they could. Why would you think otherwise?

Because they pushed back two movies by adding one Spider-Man movie. They announced a plan to do three movies a year. The addition of Spider-Man did not change those plans. If they don't change the plans for X-Men then, yes, movies will be pushed back with the addition of X-Men movies.

Marvel's in control of Spidey now. That's why he can play in the MCU. If they were not a then a deal wouldn't have been made. This is to their benefit not just for fans. It's for Marvel making more money on Spidey in the end.

Marvel is in charge of live-action Spider-Man (subject to Sony's veto). However, the cartoon coming out has no involvement from Marvel.

 

[def28]

Because they pushed back two movies by adding one Spider-Man movie. They announced a plan to do three movies a year. The addition of Spider-Man did not change those plans. If they don't change the plans for X-Men then, yes, movies will be pushed back with the addition of X-Men movies.

And you know this how? Spidey is gonna switch up the MCU and take priority. X-Men would be the same, only on a grander scale. Things would rotate, not be cancelled. And if they nabbed a deal post Infinity War and were already comfortable with three films a year, I don't see how the next move would not be adding more films. It's gonna happen. Look how fast things have changed already.

Again, I don't see the logic here. X-Men=$$$$. Potentially more so then other Marvel IP's under the company.

Marvel is in charge of live-action Spider-Man (subject to Sony's veto). However, the cartoon coming out has no involvement from Marvel.

Sony is getting Marvel's guidance on anything Spider-Man. There wouldn't be the complete destruction of ASM or any agreement with Marvel otherwise, if something is against Marvel's interest of the character Sony ain't gonna do it. This new animated movie is likely to bring in more money in kids merch then box office.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I didn't say cancelled, I said put on hold. Black Panther had an original release date. Spider-Man put that plan on hold and they chose a later release date.

Sony is getting Marvel's guidance on anything Spider-Man. There wouldn't be the complete destruction of ASM or any agreement with Marvel otherwise, if something is against Marvel's interest of the character Sony ain't gonna do it. This new animated movie is likely to bring in more money in kids merch then box office. Marvel and Sony are gonna rake dough in.

Everything reported has indicated differently for the cartoon. It's not part of the MCU and Kevin Feige has no involvement.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Again, I don't see the logic here. X-Men=$$$$. Potentially more so then other Marvel IP's under the company.

Not more then Spider-Man but something that could rival the Avengers. Earth's Mightiest were second to Spidey last year generating 1.3 billion in merch.

 

[def28]

Definitely. Deadpool and Wolverine merch alone would rival alot of members. As would Marvel finally getting more A list female superheros which X-Men is filled with.

I didn't say cancelled, I said put on hold. Black Panther had an original release date. Spider-Man put that plan on hold and they chose a later release date.

They didn't get put on hold, they got pushed back and rotated. As I'm sure scripts are going through numerous changes with the addition to Spidey. Everything is coming out in the next 4 years. Not 6 or 10. And as their success grows so do the number of films. It's inevitable for their business to continue growing until they start falling.

Everything reported has indicated differently for the cartoon. It's not part of the MCU and Kevin Feige has no involvement.

This has gone through with Marvels blessing one way or another. They don't want Sony ****ing up Spider-Man anymore, especially that he and other characters are now part of the MCU. I highly doubt Sony is getting the merch here. That's going straight to Disney.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Disney owns all merch rights. They got Sony by the short hairs.

 

[def28]

Yeah the merch for Spidey is more valuable. That 1.3 billion is gonna be much closer to 2 billion in the next few years. Marvel just has to oversee Sony doesn't drop the ball on their flagship and the money flows.

 

[Mike Murdock]

They didn't get put on hold, they got pushed back and rotated.

I think we're arguing over semantics. Do you think Marvel's other properties - new ideas or sequels to Phase 1, 2, and 3 movies will get pushed back if Marvel got the rights to X-Men movies.

This has gone through with Marvels blessing one way or another. They don't want Sony ****ing up Spider-Man anymore, especially that he and other characters are now part of the MCU. I highly doubt Sony is getting the merch here. That's going straight to Disney.

Marvel has had the right to the merchandize for Spider-Man movies for a long time. Respectfully, I don't think you know what the situation is. You're wrong on that. I think an animated movie is a bad idea, but Marvel has no say over it. It's not part of the Marvel continuity, so it's not going to directly screw it up. And nothing has indicated Marvel has a right of veto over anything Spider-Man related. They have a right to veto over Marvel characters. And they produce the live-action Spider-Man movie so they can walk if they don't like Sony's desires to veto, but they have no control over the Sony animated movie.

 

[def28]

I disagree. A Spider-Man animated film by the guys who did the Lego movie is a fantastic way to get money out of kids regarding merch. Marvels gonna reap. If they were not, it wouldn't be happening.

I think we're arguing over semantics. Do you think Marvel's other properties - new ideas or sequels to Phase 1, 2, and 3 movies will get pushed back if Marvel got the rights to X-Men movies.

What I personally think would happen is that we would get a few X-Men films, with them impacting the MCU little to none. Then building to crossover in Phase 4. I don't think they would impact other Avenger character films heavily for phase 3 at all.

But regardless, Marvel would start milking the X-Men franchise immediately one way or the other.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Yeah the merch for Spidey is more valuable. That 1.3 billion is gonna be much closer to 2 billion in the next few years. Marvel just has to oversee Sony doesn't drop the ball on their flagship and the money flows.

Yeah, 1.3 billion for Spidey despite his middling reception on film the past 8 years. The Avengers merch sales have tripled the last few years to get to well over a billion last year. Spidey in the MCU + good films will definitely have a chance to surge towards that 2 billion number. The X-Men in the MCU could definitely rival the Avengers, perhaps even surpass them to not only become the second biggest Marvel brand, but second biggest in all of comicdom.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I think we're arguing over semantics. Do you think Marvel's other properties - new ideas or sequels to Phase 1, 2, and 3 movies will get pushed back if Marvel got the rights to X-Men movies.

It depends how fluid those ideas are. Feige has said they have plans that factor in all the variables, like planning for Civil War with and without Spidey before the deal with Sony was finalized. When it was it became an easy transition.