What is it you people really want?

[webhead731]

Before I get started, I am not a troll. -_- I'm a Punisher fan.

Now, the 2004 flick to me was actually really good. I personally know one person who doesn't like it, and the other few think it's awesome.

But fans online complained about the lack of "Punisher" from the comics. It wasn't that action packed. Yes, there was action and in my opinion the scenes were badass. But the story and acting kept me interested otherwise. It was dark, gritty, violent, and more importantly, not babied down because of a PG-13 rating.

Now we get Punisher: War Zone coming to us. People complained with the first casting choices, the first posters, the trailers, the Comic-Con footage, and even complained about the official site's teaser page.
I know people will always complain and will never be satisfied, but what I see on SHH and IMDB boards, and on the SHH news pages where you can post a comment, people are just tearing stuff apart. I've learned that the commenting people on SHH main page news stories and IMDB board users are just stupid beyond all repair.
But SHH board users themselves make me happy mostly. People are reasonable here. There are idiots and trolls, but for the most part I say we're well behaved. =\

Most of what I see in this forum though is "it's too over the topz!", "why doesn't he evar get shot!!1", "that 1 minute clip wuz stupid! this movie will suck", "this looks generic!", "this is not the Punisher!".

Really, I don't understand now. I mean, they seem to be staying true to the comics, they've even made the cinematography reminiscent to the pages of our lovable anti-hero. The action looks extremely violent (the CC trailer still sends chills up my spine), it looks dark, Stevenson looks like Castle, Jigsaw is grotesque and can easily be just as creepy as TDK's Joker, the movie appears to have a score and not a bunch of artists' tracks for the music in the movie, and the stunts look like they will be pulled off well.

People complain when it's not Punisher enough, then they give us a movie that looks like a promising adaptation and now people say it's too over the top and unrealistic.
Now of course there are people like me who are happy so far, so don't take offense to this post, k?

All I want to know is, seriously answer me this, what do you guys want?

Don't eat me up, this is my opinion. Only person who I need to be satisfied with this movie in my eyes, is me.

So, post away?

 

[Microchip]

This thread wasn't necessary. It's just going to bring in both sides complaining that either the movie looks bad or that it looks good. We talk about that in every thread, why do we need another one?

 

[comicfan4Life]

Most people have different takes on Castle's/Punisher's world and what they would like to see. Some want a straight up serious drama like the shield, wire, or dare I even say it: the sorpranos. Yes, I also said drama. Punisher's world is drama, from the characters to the settings, the violence and action are secondary, but you have people that want action first and drama second. I think that's where people are divided. Punisher 89 was all action, 04 was drama/action, 08 looks to be action/drama. From the story and trailers there will be emotion in the movie (Castle holding his family, crying at their graves, obviously going to rescue Julie Benz & the kid from Jigsaw, & interaction with Micro), but they know that when the lights fade and the cameras roll, what puts asses in seats is the violence.

But I just hope they don't go youtube violence as in, take a movie with cool action scenes and slap a hot new metal song on there to get the job done. Also, as for the over the top stuff, It's based off the Max series written by Garth Ennis. The man who did preacher, hellblazer, the boys, & the pro. Over the top is Garth's style. I loved the max stories, but gay joke here, c word there, p word that, f me, f you, and the field day he obviously had with Barracuda.

It was all over the top. I didn't know that when you got shot in the head from 11 feet away with a 9mm, that a perferct "U" shape wound from an episode of Looney Tunes would appear. Or that a man can be kicked out the window, impaled on a fence post, be slammed further down on the fence post by a man that jumped all the way from said window in a factory onto the impaled Pitsy and not get hurt himself. Then said guy comes back and gets his face blown off with a shotgun. Then he has an evil twin sister.

So really, when you look at the source material, saying the violence is too over the top is like saying deadpool shouldn't be allowed to do comedy on the big screen, or that Hulk should be purple instead of green. Good thread by the way, but yeah, micro called it.

 

[Spade]

Most of what I see in this forum though is "it's too over the topz!", "why doesn't he evar get shot!!1", "that 1 minute clip wuz stupid! this movie will suck", "this looks generic!", "this is not the Punisher!".

You're ineffectively trivializing the complaints. You're pretending as if the complaints are coming from left field with no intellectual basis, thus, we're just rambling. We're not. But let's make the argument that none of the negative responses have intellectual merit- film is still a medium focused on inducing emotion. If the composition's wrong, you could have one of the most intelligent stories ever put to celluloid and still get this reponse. It's the filmmaker's responsibility to do justice to their good story.

But that's not really the problem, is it? At least, not as far as we can tell from the shooting script reviews or reactions to the trailer. So it's not just a case of bad composition. So why outright dismiss the criticism as babbling, when that's clearly not the case?

People complain when it's not Punisher enough, then they give us a movie that looks like a promising adaptation and now people say it's too over the top and unrealistic.

It's not just that. Over-the-top and unrealistic can work, though this is excessive. It just needs more behind it. Have you seen anything yet that gives us reason to be interested in more than just the gore? No. The focus of the marketing so far has been to saturate us with as much of the violence as possible. That's why we're judging it so harshly. People are saying this looks stupid because all it's presented them with is a story where Generic Action Hero #2,314 kills Disposable Henchmen #'s 56,718 to 56,842 and faces off against Joker-Looking Dude. Nothing unique, just random references to a run that the average moviegoer isn't familiar with and all the elements of yet another shoot-em-up. If there's more and this is of a higher caliber than they're letting on to, then they're holding the goods as close to the vest as possible.

"People" aren't complaining because this looks "promising." They're complaining because this looks like every other gratuitous gore porn/gunplay flick we've seen in the last two decades. There's more that can be done with this character than that.

 

[webhead731]

"Joker-looking dude"?

You're kidding me right?

 

[Spade]

I'm not gonna think that, but the average moviegoer does not think in very complex terms. Neither does the average critic looking for a hook for his or her scathing review, for that matter.

 

[webhead731]

I'm still trying to find how Joker and Jigsaw look alike.

 

[Spade]

Two heavily psychotic villains sporting facial scars who, from a fairly low-key standing, take their respective cities and throw them for a loop? I don't think it's that complicated.

 

[webhead731]

Well, if anything, the average dumbass would assume Jigsaw is a Two-Face rip off before trying to say he's too much like Joker.

Joker's got baby scratches on his mouth comparing it to Jigsaw. To me, I find Jigsaw's appearance more frightening. As for voice and attitude, I don't know yet.

I hope this doesn't end up being like Fantastic Four where people accused it of being a rip off of "The Incredibles".

 

[Spade]

Ripoff remarks almost never equate to the box office. Yes, they can make the film the butt of a joke, but most will overlook similarities between films. This place won't be flooded with negative reviews saying, "Everything was top-notch, but Jigsaw and the Joker vaguely resembled each other, so I give it an F." F4's actually a great example- the film took many beats from Spider-Man, but that's not the major reason it was panned.

 

[ObakeTora]

What do I want? Simple.

An action film that distances itself from Rambo. I want to see a film told in the vein of The Godfather, and an inclusion of the Vietnam War.

I want all the great Garth Ennis stories told in a structure similar to Harry Potter. Every story told verbatim. Also, I want a narrative and a signature intro "Punisher War Journal :

Also I want to see Circle of Blood but with a different ending.

 

[S. Grundy]

See I don't need the films to be verbatim.

 

[ObakeTora]

yes you do.

Eastide!

 

[S. Grundy]

I want to see a film not a recreation of the comic. I don't want it to be a panel for panel recreation.

 

[S. Grundy]

The closest were gonna get to a Frank Castle in the '70s was the 2004 film (it was shot like it was a '70s film). Even if Marvel gets the rights back they are going to keep his origin updated, plus making something look like an accurate period piece costs a bit of money, and I don't see Marvel or Lions Gate spending a lot on the the Punisher.

 

[KT7777]

Oh brother,hear we go again LOL!

 

[KT7777]

This thread wasn't necessary. It's just going to bring in both sides complaining that either the movie looks bad or that it looks good. We talk about that in every thread, why do we need another one?

Yeah I agree.

The closest were gonna get to a Frank Castle in the '70s was the 2004 film (it was shot like it was a '70s film). Even if Marvel gets the rights back they are going to keep his origin updated, plus making something look like an accurate period piece costs a bit of money, and I don't see Marvel or Lions Gate spending a lot on the the Punisher.

The 04 film was shot like a 70s film,that took from other 70s films.Until PWZ comes out we don't know how Marvel and Lion Gate spent.But a lot of movies with a small budget still kick ass,HardBoild,The Killer,MadMax,Desperado,The Thing,Halloween etc .I'm sure that the sequel will have a bigger or decent budget

 

[citizenpain]

You're ineffectively trivializing the complaints. You're pretending as if the complaints are coming from left field with no intellectual basis, thus, we're just rambling. We're not. But let's make the argument that none of the negative responses have intellectual merit- film is still a medium focused on inducing emotion. If the composition's wrong, you could have one of the most intelligent stories ever put to celluloid and still get this reponse. It's the filmmaker's responsibility to do justice to their good story.

But that's not really the problem, is it? At least, not as far as we can tell from the shooting script reviews or reactions to the trailer. So it's not just a case of bad composition. So why outright dismiss the criticism as babbling, when that's clearly not the case?

It's not just that. Over-the-top and unrealistic can work, though this is excessive. It just needs more behind it. Have you seen anything yet that gives us reason to be interested in more than just the gore? No. The focus of the marketing so far has been to saturate us with as much of the violence as possible. That's why we're judging it so harshly. People are saying this looks stupid because all it's presented them with is a story where Generic Action Hero #2,314 kills Disposable Henchmen #'s 56,718 to 56,842 and faces off against Joker-Looking Dude. Nothing unique, just random references to a run that the average moviegoer isn't familiar with and all the elements of yet another shoot-em-up. If there's more and this is of a higher caliber than they're letting on to, then they're holding the goods as close to the vest as possible.

"People" aren't complaining because this looks "promising." They're complaining because this looks like every other gratuitous gore porn/gunplay flick we've seen in the last two decades. There's more that can be done with this character than that.

how bout the fact that they finally got the punisher's origin right? the fact that stevenson looks like bradstreet's max covers come to life? and they got the ****ing origin right! considering that this is the most faithful adaptation of the character after 2 lackluster attempts, that's more than enough to get me hyped. and of course the violence is the main selling point for this thing, that's what was missing from 04, and that's what makes money these days. it's funny, in 04 people complained that there wasn't enough action, but now there's too much action? psht, whatever, i'm happy to see an action-packed punisher film. it looks like every other uber-violent shoot em up flick? so? you make it seem like that sort of violence isn't right up castle's alley. besides, like i said before, that's what makes money these days so of course that's going to be the main focus in marketing this film. obviously there's more to it then that, just look at the graveyard sequence in the red band trailer which shows that this film will have emotional depth to it as well.

 

[citizenpain]

Two heavily psychotic villains sporting facial scars who, from a fairly low-key standing, take their respective cities and throw them for a loop? I don't think it's that complicated.

wow, so they're the same because they're both madmen causing havoc in their cities? i guess that makes them the same as pretty much every other villain ever. i really don't see how you could even say that they look similar at all. one is a dude with some clown make-up on and the other has his whole face stitched up like a jigsaw puzzle. the joker is bout as similar to jigsaw as batman is to the punisher. in other words, hardly.

 

[ObakeTora]

The closest were gonna get to a Frank Castle in the '70s was the 2004 film (it was shot like it was a '70s film). Even if Marvel gets the rights back they are going to keep his origin updated, plus making something look like an accurate period piece costs a bit of money, and I don't see Marvel or Lions Gate spending a lot on the the Punisher.

not if we ***** enough. Look what *****ing did for Batman and Spiderman.

 

[Microchip]

Pshhh, Punisher ain't Batman or Spiderman. I don't think I like Spiderman more than Punisher, but I'd say most people do. There isn't the same fanbase to complain about his treatment.

Maybe if the movie does well enough, the studio will say "hey, this Punisher character can make a lot of money. Lets get a good director, a couple quality actors, give 'em a real budget and make a movie that'll be a blockbuster".

 

[Balthus Dire]

Man, I'm just happy Frank actually kills people in this movie rather than playing pranks on them.

And of course they're going to focus on the violence; it's the way an action film is marketed! Do you think the general public is going to be attracted to a movie called "The Punisher" when the trailer is all about him crying about his family and showing his soft side?? No, they are gonna watch it because he blows away bad guys to kingdom come! The 04 version was also marketed showing a lot of action, only it turned out that all the action in the trailer was literally all the action in the entire film!

Just because we don't see a lot of character in the trailers doesn't mean it won't be there in the film. Lexi Alexander herself said it's more than just violence; that Frank's character and others will really come through. All you whiners are gonna eat it when the movie comes out. Even if it's not perfect, it will be the best Punisher adaptation so far, and call me crazy but I'm happy about that.

 

[thegameq]

There seem to be two factions when it comes to the Punisher: those who want to see a faithful high quality drama flick sprinkled with gun play (HEAT, etc.,..). This camp believes there is more to the character than the typical violence that has made him popular in the first place.

Others want a faithful stylish Punisher comicbook movie--Punisher is what he is, so why make him into something else.

I won't pretend to be a knowledgeable Punisher fan, but my impression of the Punisher (616) has always been more HEAT, mob movie, gangster movie. Factor in the characters grounded origins and I have a hard time seeing an over the top kind of Punisher film. It can still be stylized of course, just not in a colorful way.

Funny how Batman is a more fantasy driven character who was given a realistic Michael Mann treatment. The Punisher who could probably fit better in a Michael Mann type film seems to be getting a more fantasy driven film.

Oh well...

 

[S. Grundy]

Yeah I agree.

The 04 film was shot like a 70s film,that took from other 70s films.Until PWZ comes out we don't know how Marvel and Lion Gate spent.But a lot of movies with a small budget still kick ass,HardBoild,The Killer,MadMax,Desperado,The Thing,Halloween etc .I'm sure that the sequel will have a bigger or decent budget

The budget is listed as $20,500,000. That's $5.5 million more than the last movie.

 

[ObakeTora]

That was approximately the same budget as Dead Presidents, so why couldn't we have Vietnam in the story that could allude to a Born sequel? When will people come to grips with this THE PUNISHER IS AN OLD MAN!!!!!! Not someone in his mid forties. Ga~ damn.


Anyway, I had a vision a pissed off fan made a true Punisher story and the circulation on Youtube made people forget about this abomination.