The Dark Knight What makes TDK so special?

[Neno_Kos]

Nothing. It's just a good movie. Not superhero movie, but a thriller movie.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I know this thread is old, but it's literally this topic that got me to sign up for an account here because I really love talking about 'Dark Knight' so much.

As for what makes it so special, there are a ton of reasons. Two of which, I don't think I need to cover. One, the topicality of the film, which Tacit Ronin really covered in his reply so long ago. Two, being Heath Ledger's performance which I think has already been acknowledged plenty in this thread.

So the two aspects I really appreciate about the film that I think deserve more praise are, first, how much the film really gets and appreciates the source material. As a Batman fan, I love that. Second, it's a movie that tells an extremely satisfying character-driven story that really examines Batman and what it means to be a hero.

So, first, the source material thing. I love that this film really is so firmly rooted in the Batman comic books and takes the effort to truly understand it's characters and what their important, defining aspect are.

A lot of the TDK-backlash includes this notion that Nolan didn't really appreciate the comics and it's always backed up by some hogwash example overly focused on a surface level detail like how Joker's skin wasn't permanently white.

Ok, so let's look at that: Yes, Joker didn't fall into a vat of chemicals and come out looking like a playing card. But if we are honest, we all know that Joker's Red Hood origin is the result of silly comic book trope that we all take for granted now.

Nolan, however, had the insight to really look at Joker's character and origin and take the important bits and leave the baggage that would drag down the film. What is important about the chemical bath aspect of Joker's origin story? Well, it's that he suffers a disfiguration of some kind that makes him look as crazy on the outside as he is on the inside. The 'Glasgow smile' covers this perfectly. It's a Joker related disfigureation, but not one that requires a real origin story. It fits into Joker's role and character in such a way as to not detract from his role in the film but still provides the basis for him to be the Joker and not some other villain.

You can't get there if you don't respect the character in the first place.

Besides just respecting the characters, the film really does look to the Batman mythos for it's stories. And when it does so, it takes the essential, important themes and tries to adapt them for film and improve upon them. 'Dark Knight' is the 'Killing Joke' done far better than the comic book does it. It takes the important themes (how close each one of us might be to becoming our own Joker and the Batman/Joker relationship) and does away with the weak parts (Joker's rather uninspired origin story).

The same can be said for 'Long Halloween', which is my favorite Bat-book story arc, personally. (I picked DarkVictory for a name based on the not-quite-as-good-but-still-awesome sequel because it sounds like a better username than 'LongHalloween' does). TDK does 'Long Halloween' even better because it takes that important theme (what are the repercussions for Gotham and Batman when the supervillains begin to take over the underworld previously run by traditional organized crime?) but does away with the somewhat meandering serial killer subplot which was an important hook for the original serialized storytelling but far less important for a standalone film.


Then there is the character driven story. So many people kind of miss the Batman character arc and think this movie is about Harvey Dent (or their distracted by how awesome Heath Ledger's Joker is), but some of that is the beauty of Batman's character arc: It's built so well into the heart of the film that you almost take it for granted yet it makes the film great.

Batman here isn't just a brooding dude who kicks a lot of butt, has a killer costume, and drives an awesome car that sits around in his study waiting for villains to show up to give him something to do.

Batman has a goal at the beginning of this film and he believes he's almost there. The goal, however, is unrealistic and he doesn't appreciate the sacrifice that his quest will truly require of him.

At the beginning of this film (and this is a theme carried over from 'Batman Begins'), Bruce wears Batman like a shield. 'Batman has no limits'. He believes that he can use Batman to effect the change he wants in Gotham, get rid of the mob, find the right guy to take over the problems, and then drop the cape and cowl marry Rachel and live happily ever after in a city his parents would have loved. The end.

Meanwhile, he is oblivious to the fact that being Batman is slowly invading his soul. He's become obsessed with watching people. He builds a machine that spies on everyone. He misses the fact that he's pining after a Rachel he doesn't really love (or even truly know anymore) and missing the fact that she's obviously in love with someone else. He thinks he can compartmentalize his life and that by using 'Batman', he'll somehow be able to emerge on the other side unscathed as Bruce Wayne when somehow he is able to win his war.

All the while, the evidence is mounting that this isn't possible and it comes crashing down on Batman when the Joker is able to hurt him personally by killing Rachel. Alfred, who's been watching the whole time, says it best. 'You didn't think there were going to be casualties?'

This culminates in the final confrontation. I mean, it's pretty amazing when you think about it. The final showdown in 'Knight' is almost all dialogue. It's not a climatic battle with a hundred buildings blowing up. Yet, when Batman makes the choice to sacrifice his name and Gordon gives that speech to his son that could come across hokey in any other film, you still want to stand up and cheer the moment that pounding beat booms across the speakers and the credits start to roll.

Why? Because the film builds to this conclusion. The ending could be considered tragic in many ways. Batman finally, truly accepts that the Bruce Wayne he thinks he wanted to end up as is gone. He's given in to a lonely, painful, dark life as wanted vigilante. But because the movie has been building to this moment, because we've lived it alongside Batman, it's a heroic sacrifice as powerful as any giant fight scene could possibly be.


Man, I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. I could probably go on even more about some of the little things that 'Dark Knight' gets right (because there is so much more) and now I've got a giant urge to just pop-in my Blu-Ray copy but I need to go to bed now and I probably shouldn't watch TDK so shortly before I'm going to see 'Batman v Superman' as I'd probably just be setting myself up for disappointment.

Agreed with everything. This post so good.

It's funny because TDK could have ended with Batman leaving the Joker hanging upside down with the cops to bring him in and no one would have batted an eye. But no, Nolan took it a step further and had the climax of the film with just pure acting and raw emotion from Batman, Dent, and Gordon. Hell, the Joker isn't even in the last scene of the film!

Exactly. It's beyond me why studios think now every single super hero movie needs to have the same type of climax. It's just boring.

Agreed. Don't need splashy effects for brilliant climax.

The movie just broke new grounds on soooooo many levels.

Best comic film of all.

The trilogy was more about Bruce than Bats, and Bruce was probably the best thing about the whole trilogy.

If you think TDK is all about the Joker, you weren't paying attention to the fact that the story is about Bruce and Harvey more than Joker. Joker is a supporting character.

Agreed. People think most scene stealing performance makes movie about them. They wrong.

Bale is the best Bruce hands down.

Agreed.

Nothing. It's just a good movie. Not superhero movie, but a thriller movie.

Disagreed. It has lots of special things about it. Batman not superhero so none of his movies superhero ones lol.

 

[DarkVictory]

He didn't think about the future.

Just watched Batman '89 yesterday, so this made me laugh quite a bit. Thank you sir.

The trilogy was more about Bruce than Bats, and Bruce was probably the best thing about the whole trilogy.

If you think TDK is all about the Joker, you weren't paying attention to the fact that the story is about Bruce and Harvey more than Joker. Joker is a supporting character.

Joker is an important catalyst in the movie (He is an agent of chaos, after all), but yeah the movie's arc is that of Batman, contrasted against that of Two-Face.

It's a Bruce/Batman story that uses the villains as a tool to examine Bats... as all the best Batman stories do.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Disagreed. It has lots of special things about it. Batman not superhero so none of his movies superhero ones lol.

Batman is absolutely a superhero.

 

[shauner111]

I don't mind people calling him a superhero, i just don't call him that because i've always associated the word "super" with superpowers. To me he's just a hero, who uses darkness as his ally to fight criminals.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Superheroes thwart extraordinary threats that the common authorities cannot. Batman does exactly that.

 

[BatLobster]

Another thing that makes it special is despite being a sequel and the second chapter in a trilogy, it works as a stand alone film.

It's almost like TDK could've never even been made today, because Two-Face would've most definitely been kept alive and his story left hanging as sequel bait. But Dent's death was essential in giving the film the resonant ending it has. And the ending itself is one of the greatest aspects of the whole film.

That's one reason The Winter Soldier ends up falling so short of TDK to me, despite clearly trying to emulate it and being a good film in its own right. It's ending is all about cliffhangers and teases, though that's no fault of the Russos...just part of the package when you're dealing in a universe.

 

[JackWhite]

I don't mind people calling him a superhero, i just don't call him that because i've always associated the word "super" with superpowers. To me he's just a hero, who uses darkness as his ally to fight criminals.

With all due respect, Shauner, he's whatever Gotham needs him to be.

 

[shauner111]

Superheroes thwart extraordinary threats that the common authorities cannot. Batman does exactly that.

That's all fine, it's just not my definition of superhero. Heroes can do that, vigilante cereal killers like Dexter can do that too. We don't call them superheroes.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Yeah, I don't see 'heroes', aka firefighters, policemen or soldiers taking out the League of Shadows, Ra's or Bane.

 

[shauner111]

I prefer to see Batman as a vigilante/crimefighter. I don't mind calling him a superhero when he's with the Justice League taking down gods and aliens.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Just watch the Prewitt building scene. He takes out an entire swat team from mistakenly saving Joker's crooks dressed as doctors while simultaneously saves innocents dressed up as said crooks without breaking a sweat.

Yup. That's a freaking superhero.

 

[DarkVictory]

Another thing that makes it special is despite being a sequel and the second chapter in a trilogy, it works as a stand alone film.

It's almost like TDK could've never even been made today, because Two-Face would've most definitely been kept alive and his story left hanging as sequel bait. But Dent's death was essential in giving the film the resonant ending it has. And the ending itself is one of the greatest aspects of the whole film.

That's one reason The Winter Soldier ends up falling so short of TDK to me, despite clearly trying to emulate it and being a good film in its own right. It's ending is all about cliffhangers and teases, though that's no fault of the Russos...just part of the package when you're dealing in a universe.

Yeah, it really does work well as a stand-alone film and I do agree that it not being focused on 'making the next one' is part of it's success.

It's ironic that this freedom comes from it being a sequel of such a critically applauded previous film whereas other films (including the sequel to this very film) get hamstrung by it.

You see themes that are hinted at in 'Batman Begins' (the ending scene with the Joker card in particular) get fully explored here in ways that the studio wouldn't have allowed Nolan to do if 'Begins' hadn't been so well received.

Meanwhile, 'Rises' suffers under it's own weight as it sort of self-consciously tries to raise the bar to be a traditional 'superhero' film in a way that 'Knight' was so clearly not concerned with.

 

[Ryan]

I watched a documentary one time on the Star Trek Next Generation episode Best of Both Worlds and it reminded me a bit of TDK and TDKR. The star trek writers said that there was a huge sense of freedom in doing the first episode because they could just write all sorts predicaments without having to worry about how everything can be solved. The second episode was a bit more restricted because it became a case of having to wrap up all the loose ends. I've always felt that way about TDK and TDKR.

 

[batman1]

I watched a documentary one time on the Star Trek Next Generation episode Best of Both Worlds and it reminded me a bit of TDK and TDKR. The star trek writers said that there was a huge sense of freedom in doing the first episode because they could just write all sorts predicaments without having to worry about how everything can be solved. The second episode was a bit more restricted because it became a case of having to wrap up all the loose ends. I've always felt that way about TDK and TDKR.

good point.

 

[StormC]

I’ve been lurking this message board for months, and seeing this sub board, and this TDK appreciation thread, after rewatching this movie for the billionth time, I had to make an account and weigh in.

Full warning: The Dark Knight is my favorite movie. Ever. Not just my favorite superhero movie or my favorite action movie, it is my favorite movie, ever. It is hugely inspiring to me as a writer, and as a teenager it had a major influence on my tastes in media going forward. Although I’m not the biggest fan of Christopher Nolan (I adore the whole trilogy but think that outside of it he’s kind of a one trick pony), I think he was the perfect kind of storyteller for the Batman mythos.

What is there to love about the film? People have already mentioned the incredible direction, acting, script, and so much more. One of its major successes as movie is it’s both visceral and intellectual. The plot is tense and the action sequences are exciting, but it’s also a thoughtful film with a lot to say. It hits that perfect balance that lets it play to pretty much all audiences but isn’t just a simple popcorn action movie.

Someone said earlier that it’s a movie that you know is special when you watch it, and I agree. I knew watching this for the first time in theaters that I was witnessing history being made. It’s captivating, even in the little ways; I can’t think of a single scene that’s boring. Something as simple as Gordon and Dent discussing how to deal with money laundering is a rich scene, with the actors easily playing off of each other.

I’m a big fan too, personally, of the middle act with the downer ending in a trilogy. Empire Strikes Back is naturally my favorite Star Wars movie. Despite the intensity and darkness of the story, though, it retains its hopefulness, not just through Batman, but the people of Gotham; it allows itself to be romantic when it calls for it, as humanity stands against the Joker and says “no, we won’t be like you.” So many films would depict the civilians as trigger happy to save their own skin, but the emotional climax of the film is far more fulfilling than any big CGI city destruction fest.

It’s bleak, but hopeful. Serious, yet hilarious. Action-packed and psychological.

It’s a movie I wish I could watch again for the first time.

 

[batman1]

I’ve been lurking this message board for months, and seeing this sub board, and this TDK appreciation thread, after rewatching this movie for the billionth time, I had to make an account and weigh in.

Full warning: The Dark Knight is my favorite movie. Ever. Not just my favorite superhero movie or my favorite action movie, it is my favorite movie, ever. It is hugely inspiring to me as a writer, and as a teenager it had a major influence on my tastes in media going forward. Although I’m not the biggest fan of Christopher Nolan (I adore the whole trilogy but think that outside of it he’s kind of a one trick pony), I think he was the perfect kind of storyteller for the Batman mythos.

What is there to love about the film? People have already mentioned the incredible direction, acting, script, and so much more. One of its major successes as movie is it’s both visceral and intellectual. The plot is tense and the action sequences are exciting, but it’s also a thoughtful film with a lot to say. It hits that perfect balance that lets it play to pretty much all audiences but isn’t just a simple popcorn action movie.

Someone said earlier that it’s a movie that you know is special when you watch it, and I agree. I knew watching this for the first time in theaters that I was witnessing history being made. It’s captivating, even in the little ways; I can’t think of a single scene that’s boring. Something as simple as Gordon and Dent discussing how to deal with money laundering is a rich scene, with the actors easily playing off of each other.

I’m a big fan too, personally, of the middle act with the downer ending in a trilogy. Empire Strikes Back is naturally my favorite Star Wars movie. Despite the intensity and darkness of the story, though, it retains its hopefulness, not just through Batman, but the people of Gotham; it allows itself to be romantic when it calls for it, as humanity stands against the Joker and says “no, we won’t be like you.” So many films would depict the civilians as trigger happy to save their own skin, but the emotional climax of the film is far more fulfilling than any big CGI city destruction fest.

It’s bleak, but hopeful. Serious, yet hilarious. Action-packed and psychological.

It’s a movie I wish I could watch again for the first time.

I remember being scared out of my mind not knowing what the Joker will do in each scene.

 

[batman1]

Also the Joker was right about most of what he is saying. He just went too far killing people.

 

[The Joker]

I remember being scared out of my mind not knowing what the Joker will do in each scene.

The effectiveness of a great villain.

 

[Ryan]

One thing that added to that sense of suspense or tension was the music. Like Jaws or the Halloween movies, when you heard that "joker theme' you knew something was coming but you didn't know what it was or when exactly it was coming.

 

[-JKR-]

Nothing. It's just a good movie. Not superhero movie, but a thriller movie.

It's a great thriller. It's a great action movie. It's a great comic book adaptation. It's a great Batman movie, and therefore a great 'superhero movie.'

And thanks to Christopher Nolan's vision and filmmaking, a great script, fantastic cast and overall amazing team, it's a pretty special movie. One that will be remembered in a long time.

It was lightning in a bottle.

It's just one of those movies.

 

[NotNickFury]

To me, I'd say it's like Batman Begins and, to an extent, Captain America: The Winter Soldier- it's a great movie because it feels like a great movie first, and a great superhero second. The Dark Knight comes off to me as an intricate crime drama, while Winter Soldier is an espionage film. They just happen to be based off of characters who wear spandex in comic books.

 

[PretenderNX01]

Sort of a random coincidence but there's a Screen Rant about things people do in TV that they don't do in real life like meeting face to face, and being able to hear perfectly in loud nightclubs as if there was a special sound bubble around them.

One of the comments was how The Dark Knight put a twist on them:

TheAdditional
The Dark Knight levies two hilarious exceptions to this list, given the seriousness of the movie and it’s poignantly, possibly elegantly self-aware dismissal of those tropes:

1. Meetings: “A simple phone call might have sufficed” after flying him AAAAALLL the way out to China. Lol

2. Sound bubble: *Maroni Macaroni in the club with his lady friend* “Can we go somewhere else? We can’t hear each other talk!” “Why would I want to hear you talk?” Replies Maroni, unwittingly paving the way for Batman’s excessive use of sign language.

And this my friends, is why The Dark Knight is the best movie of ALL. TIME.

And the Joker. And Commissioner Gordon’s mustache.

 

[shauner111]

Of all time...lol.

 

[Boom]

So I just realized that TDK hits its ten-year anniversay in a couple of years. You think WB will do anything special to commemorate the occasion?

I'd still love it if the Ledgers and Nolan approved additional BTS material for Heath. I understand that they've wanted to be respectful, but the material we've gotten in the past leaves so much to be desired.