What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by the last son, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Yeah, I never got this complaint. The guy was betrayed by the Cops, his fiancee was murdered, and half his face was burned off.

    There's people in real life who have mentally snapped for less than that.
     
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  2. Red Mask

    Red Mask Human Killing Machine

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    Lucy Liu and Cillian Murphy starred together in "Watching the Detectives". Released in 2007.
     
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  3. Red Mask

    Red Mask Human Killing Machine

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    After watching and reading stories of Two-Face for so long the effect didn't work so well for me. Nolan's take was tragic, but so was the version in Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and in the animated series. In the end one can only take so much before it becomes obvious he's a villain who will do terrible crimes.
     
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  4. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    The only take I like better is The Long Halloween's. Miller's is too prone to evil to be sympathetic and TAS one was good. It is on execution. I can see Hamlet done a dozen times. And not that Batman is Hamlet, but a good production will find a new way to effect you or otherwise it has failed.

    Just my opinion.
     
    #179
  5. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    The only take I like better is The Long Halloween's. Miller's is too prone to evil to be sympathetic and TAS one was good. It is on execution. I can see Hamlet done a dozen times. And not that Batman is Hamlet, but a good production will find a new way to effect you or otherwise it has failed.

    Just my opinion.
     
    #180
  6. UncleTeddy

    UncleTeddy New Member

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    Such a shame people give Nolan so much crap for having the villain arcs make sense.

    Shocking, I know.
     
    #181
  7. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

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    The only villain arcs that he gets flack for is Bane/Talia in TDKR.

    Everyone else, Ra's/Scarecrow and Joker/Two-Face and Selina were spot on for the most part, IMO.
     
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  8. batfreakforever

    batfreakforever A real fan

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    What Nolan does poorest is he does great movies, what he does best is a perfect Batman trilogy.
     
    #183
  9. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    What Nolan does poorest is have sloppy editors.
     
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  10. OutRiddled

    OutRiddled Well-Known Member

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    Ra's and Scarecrow had an arc?

    [​IMG]
     
    #185
  11. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Poor Lee Smith. I think he often gets blamed for things that aren't necessarily his fault.
     
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  12. milost

    milost Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, how is that Smith's fault? It's not. In fact, that must mean he's a great editor.


    Go back and read the scripts for TDKR, the pacing is just as crazy. "Alright, now we're here, this is going on, now CUT TO ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN, here's a montage with 30 events going on, now this is happening".


    That's the script, not the editor.
     
    #187
  13. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    When did the script ever say that? Bring up an actual example, then I may take your word for it. The editing was just as bad in BB and for you to even bring up only an "example" from TDKR doesn't help your point, milost.
     
    #188
  14. Schrute

    Schrute Well-Known Member

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    Really? I think the Nolan films are fine editing wise. Especially his montages.
     
    #189
  15. RAINMAKER

    RAINMAKER Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but what do you mean exactly?
     
    #190
  16. RAINMAKER

    RAINMAKER Well-Known Member

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    Some where okay, while others during fight scenes took away all the intensity. Those where the worst. Especially during Bane's and Batman's last fight. Way too many cut scenes.
     
    #191
  17. milost

    milost Well-Known Member

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    The events leading up to the stadium scene.




    WE'RE WITH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, NOW WE'RE ACROSS TOWN WITH BLAKE AND THE CEMENT CREW. DR. PAVEL. EXPLOSIONS. THE MAYOR IS GOIN TO THE BIG GAME.




    How is pacing the edtior's problem when he's following the script?
     
    #192
  18. Marvolo

    Marvolo Well-Known Member

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    Bane's death in hindsight is a bit of a letdown. Tate and her death croak is a blight on this trilogy, and that paperthin character wasn't worth of being called the Demon's daughter.

    The Joker disappeared from the film the way he entered it.

    Ra's had a pretty good death. It doesn't get more absolute than riding a train into the ground.

    Harvey had the most satisfying arc of them all. Unlike the other villains we saw his birth, his rise, his corruption, and his fall. That is A+ in my book.

    On a side note, TDKR had some of the worst passage of time I've ever seen in a film.
     
    #193
  19. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    Too bad that was actually fine editing, lol. Once again, give me a good example.

    Oh, here's one for yah.

    Blake saves Gordon, a knock is heard in that scene and then we see the scene where Blake is at Wayne Manor. THAT'S the kind of bad editing I am referring to.
     
    #194
  20. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

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    Since we are talking about questionable editing, was it just me or during the beginning of the movie where Daggett says "it was good of you to let me on the grounds" right after he says that it goes directly to the next scene. Even on my first viewing of TDKR that cut seemed extremely off.

    And I never liked the editing of when Bruce is taken and eventually lowered into the pit and then awakened to see Bane standing over him. I wish the chant would have played out about 5-8 seconds more.
     
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  21. Marvolo

    Marvolo Well-Known Member

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    You talking about when Dagget is talking to Tate, and it abruptly cuts to a useless scene of Selina ascending the staircase? That moment illicited a "WTF" from me in the theater?
     
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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  22. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

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    Yes! I couldn't quite think of the very next scene. But yeah, that was so weird, still is. I always kind of thought it was just me.
     
    #197
  23. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    I don't think thats 'bad' editing. There's a name for that kind of transition, it's called an "L cut", which is basically rolling audio from the next scene under the end of the current scene. It's a pretty common and effective technique for getting from one scene to another. It's usually kind of subliminal. I never even quite realized the knock was heard before we cut to Wayne Manor before you just pointed it out.

    And to me, if it was subliminal then that usually means it's good editing. But since you noticed it I guess it took you out of the movie, so fair enough.
     
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  24. Marvolo

    Marvolo Well-Known Member

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    No, you're definitely not alone. Its particularly bad when you consider that the obtrusive staircase scene is in, but this lovely shot ended up on the cutting room floor:

    [​IMG]

    Literally the moment of Bruce's re-entrance into society. The way he is going through a doorway into an old life. The birth metaphor. Gone. Cut. Lost.
     
    #199
  25. Tequilla

    Tequilla Well-Known Member

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    That edit is basically to intercut between actions that are happening at the same time. That his way of positioning time in both moments. And so he transitions , as BatLobsterRises, splitting between image and sound for the transition. So we start with her , we hear the other scene (someone speaking) starts before transition , scene plays out , cuts back to her , and he employs the same technique again (this time what triggers the transition is Alfred's voice...and it happens even another time when it goes outside to Foley).

    I would say it was an easy way to intercut scenes that weren't very strong (also with the outside ) , and at the same time to define parallel actions (in time). With the scenes playing out completely and individually (her climbing with total silence , and the little dialog between alfred , miranda and the australian guy , and a little scene with the cops) maybe the pacing would be a little off. Hard to say without seeing it like that. Also it mixes well knowing that Bruce's is hold up in there (dagget says that) and so it contextualizes the space and action of Cat's going there alone , in silence.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013

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