What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by the last son, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Yeah, Ozymandias is a great character but I don't know if that performance can hold up next to Tom's. Hiddleston is great as Loki, but yeah not the best villain overall. If you factor in appearance, performance, threat level and just overall badass-ness I think Hardy's Bane has 'em all beat. Just my opinion.

    I'm really hoping Michael Shannon and Ben Kingsley will give us two more great CBM villains this year.
     
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  2. milost

    milost Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's pretty much no contest if it's only post TDK villains, most of them have been pretty awful.

    Though I'd put Loki and Red Skull ahead of Bane, I really liked them. I doubt we ever see Red Skull again though which is a pity.


    If we included villains from any time, Bane has no chance against the likes of Ledger Joker, Nicholson Joker, Doc Ock, William Stryker, Eckhart Two-Face, Yellow Bastard, Ra's Al Ghul, etc.
     
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  3. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    Stryker over Bane? Lol. He wasn't nothing, or at least I sure as hell wouldn't call him something of a supreme villain.
     
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  4. milost

    milost Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess I should clarify, I meant the X2 Stryker specifically. I thought using his son and his agenda and plan against mutants was pretty sinister. I thought he was a pretty good character (for being nothing more than a regular human), especially his interactions with Wolverine and the others. He felt more evil than Magneto himself.


    There's also Magneto, I forgot about him. I didn't particularly care for how old he was, but Ian Mckellen did a good job (until the third film). I thought he rivaled Patrick Steward pretty well.
     
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  5. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    *Sigh*. A shame you don't like Bane milost, but of course it's all a matter of taste. I think you'd probably like the movie a lot more if you did. I find it hard to enjoy a CBM if I can't get into the villain.

    I mean, I obviously like (in some cases love) all of the aforementioned villains but Bane just brought this apocalyptic quality with him that made him feel more dangerous than most of those guys (except The Joker). To me, this went from an iconic moment in comics to an iconic moment in film:

    [​IMG]

    I seriously get chills when I think about that entire scene and the way it unfolded. Pure dread. I'll go as far as saying that second only to Ledger's Joker, Hardy's Bane is the best physical embodiment of a villain in a CBM. In addition to his voice and his eyes, his body language throughout the movie was incredible.
     
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  6. Snow Queen

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    I wouldn't call it iconic just yet, BatLobsterRises, but I have a feeling it will become iconic. Impossible to say it is already though when the film is under a year old but in a few years I see that being a moment remembered: the moment a superhero really got broken completely. Heroes have been psychologically and physically beaten before but this film took the beating the hero (in a CBM) got and took it to the eleventh level. Which made it all the more satisfying seeing Bruce triumph physically, mentally and emotionally.
     
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  7. milost

    milost Well-Known Member

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    Yup, that's very true. Good point.





    I was actually pretty pumped about Bane during the December, Prologue days. Really pumped. In 2011 he had potential to be my favorite villain early on, I was really digging the info that was being thrown around about him. The poster of him walking away from the broken cowl and promo shots of him gesturing "come at me bro" in the Batcave, er, I mean sewers :-)woot:) was fun too.


    But I'll never forget my first viewing when Bane spoke. "OVV CAAAWSE" For me, it all went down hill from there. I was actually shocked at how much he annoyed me, especially when he'd stand up there making speeches. It just didn't feel right. The more I got to know about the character as the story unfolded, the worse he got for me, especially by the films end. From Alfred hyping him up (I guess there was a whole wikipedia page dedicated to Bane and the LoS) to not being the child, he just devolved into this mess for me. The crappy voice and gestures (imo) didn't really help either. He just came off as a cliched, over the top, mustache twirling villain that took getting used to (and multiple viewings) to understand. A runty gorilla in a mask. I just couldn't get into him no matter how hard I'd try. Then when you have such a great villain, perfect even, in the previous film, you really feel like it was a step down.


    This is harsh, but I'd even go as far as comparing him to Whiplash. A generic, modern, villain with a horrible, funny accent and a lame plan. Instead of, "I vant my burd", it was "Foh Yewwww". Though Bane has much better memes and funnies on the web if I'm to be honest. I straight up hated Whiplash and didn't get the appeal during the Iron Man 2 days from people that seemed to like him.





    Foley (or Nixon before we knew better) was another one of those characters that I was anticipating for some odd reason but ended up being obnoxious and grating much to my dismay. I couldn't believe that the character I wasn't really looking forward to and not having much faith in (Catwoman), ended up being my favorite part of the movie.
     
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  8. batfreakforever

    batfreakforever A real fan

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    bane is perfect in tdkr. Loved his death. By. Two. Cannons that also took out the camo tumblers. Thats what it took to take him out. Batman could'nt kill him so selina did. Batman lives by his rules. She lives by her's. Batman can complain about the way she uses guns and kills but in the end it's her choice.
     
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  9. Monicabbm

    Monicabbm Well-Known Member

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    The death of Bane. I don't even like to watch the scene.
     
    #159
  10. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Oh yeah, I meant just personally speaking as in "I'll never forget the moment I saw Batman get broken" kinda thing. To me it symbolized the fact that Batman was truly human and not invincible. Moreso than even the back-breaking I thought it was pretty shocking when Bane repeatedly punched the mask in.

    milost, ouch. That's all I can say, hahaha.
     
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  11. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    If I ranked the best CBM villains:

    1. Joker (Ledger)
    2. Joker (Nicholson)
    3. Magneto (McKellen, I don't consider Fassy's one...yet)
    4. Catwoman (Pffeifer...I don't consider Hathaway's one ;) )
    5. Doc Ock
    6. Two-Face (Eckhart obviously, though more a tragically fallen hero)
    7. Bane
    8. Green Goblin
    9. Loki
    10. Ra's

    I do not think there is another really memorable one.
     
    #161
  12. Marvin

    Marvin Well-Known Member

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    Stephen Dorff's and David Goyer had a brilliant reinvention on a character that was appropriately named "Deacon Frost". He made both a physical and scheming antagonist.

    however, blade is the red headed child of CBM's.
     
    #162
  13. Snow Queen

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    My list goes:
    1. Joker (Ledger)
    2. Bane (Hardy) and Two Face (Eckhart)
    4. Magneto (McKellen)
    5. Joker (Emerson, The Dark Knight Returns)
    6. Ra's al Ghul (Neeson)
    7. Scarecrow (Murphy)
    8. Catwoman (Hathaway)
    9. Loki
    10. Doc Ock
     
    #163
  14. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    Even X2's Stryker was "meh" at best and never felt like a top-tier villain, imo.

    I have never thought of a list, but I would say...

    1.) Bane(yah, this could get a lot of hate...but one of my favorite villains was featured in a film in a way that I completely enjoyed. Venom could have been #1 as he's also one of my favorite villains...but he was crap in Spider-Man 3)
    2.) Joker(Ledger)
    3.) Ozymandias
    4.) Doc Ock
    5.) Magneto(McKellen)
    6.) Ra's al Ghul
    7.) General Zod
    8.) Joker(Nicholson)
    9.) Two-Face(Eckhart)
    10.) Top Dollar
    11.) Loki
    12.) Red Skull
    13.) Green Goblin
    14.) Deacon Frost
    15.) Kingpin(the only great thing about Daredevil)

    Not counting Fassbender's Magneto or Hathaway's Catwoman because they were just there, weren't true villains at all. And while I view Pfeiffer's Catwoman as very iconic, but personally, I didn't like her.
     
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  15. AnneFan

    AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    The whole segment gets a strong round of applause from me. Sensational culmination of the first act which I particularly enjoy. Definitely one of the trilogy's highlights.

    I particularly love the moment when Batman groggily staggers to his feet and charges Bane. Something so heroic about it despite him being vulnerable.
     
    #165
  16. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Yes! That desperate yell he lets out. It's so defiant, and then Bane just swats him down like a fly. It's truly tough to watch, but I have to admit there is slight twisted satisfaction in seeing your hero get his ass handed to him when it's presented in such an insanely entertaining way.
     
    #166
  17. AnneFan

    AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    I was entertained by that rapid fire punching when the mask was damaged, definitely.

    In terms of Bane being a threat to Batman, I think they nailed it and more. We know he dominates in fight one. In fight two Bane is on top for the majority. So when he gets kicked through the doors, yelled at and punched – it is sweet. Talia intervened afterwards, but Batman is again on the back foot with rope around his neck and a shotgun in his face.
     
    #167
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  18. Red Mask

    Red Mask Human Killing Machine

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    The Scarecrow wasn't Batman's real nemesis in that movie. He was Rachel's. So it was fitting that she dispatched him.

    Agree.

    If he did get recast in TDKR then it would be a big blow to the posthumous memory of Heath Ledger, and he wouldn't be as respected for his performance in the role.

    I thought it was interesting that he died pretty much the same way as in the Schumacher film. He fell to his death. His destiny was foretold.

    Fear the Woman. Hear her roar. She's not going away because of male pride.

    This was hardly Marion Cotillard's best performance. So I agree. They tried to fool us but it was no use to fans like us.
     
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  19. Mjölnir

    Mjölnir Guest

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    Scarecrow could certainly have been a big part of the opposition against Batman. In fact that's actually one of my biggest gripes with the movies, that the tertiary super character was treated so poorly in the first two movies.

    Scarecrow had great potential with his visualization and he could have had some great scenes when Gotham went mad. Instead he was just a wimp that did nothing in the end. Two-Face also fell pretty flat, imo going from paragon to villain far too easily for the realistic tone of the movie (the realism and the comic elements did clash at times for me in the trilogy, but that could just be my problem) and not really amounting to much compared to what he could have.

    Catwoman worked much better, but there the twist in the end just made Bane into a spectacular goon and the real mastermind was a letdown since she didn't really add anything to the story (rather removed something from the Bane character). But for the majority of the story Catwoman was the tertiary character and she was handled well.

    The by far biggest peak of the trilogy was The Joker. Definitely the best character and he was handled well for pretty much all of his story, even though I really disliked that he was apparently wrong about Gotham's population. Truly a shame that the tragedy seems to have hindered a better story being told.
     
    #169
  20. Red Mask

    Red Mask Human Killing Machine

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    What's done is done. I like the actor who played the Scarecrow. His performance in other films are much better and that's how I want to remember him. Watching him cry after Lucy Liu dumps him is hilarious!

    I thought the way Gothamites proved the Joker wrong was very poetic. It proves the people are not sheep. Lying to them about Harvey proved to be the mistake it truly was.

    As for Harvey - good grief. This isn't the "Tragedy of Dark Vader". Two-Face is a villain in DC Comics. It was a good try by Nolan but like it was with Talia, us fans know better.
     
    #170
  21. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

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    Wait, what?
     
    #171
  22. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

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    Bale gets extra kudos for his acting in the first Bane fight. The moment that gets me is that yell of frustration when Bane is walking up the stairs. I can only imagine Bruce is hearing Alfred in his head saying "I told you so", that he isn't the Batman of old anymore. It's also the moment when Batman starts going for broke and throwing wild strikes. Bruce is defiant as hell, but beyond doomed to lose that fight, and it's that moment that Bruce realizes this.

    I also like how the second fight is pretty much reversed - Bane is the one throwing everything into his strikes while Batman absorbs them while throwing calculated offensive strikes while waiting for the right moment to capitalize.
     
    #172
  23. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to why so many dislike that death or her quip. It is a great moment and her line is in character and delivered perfectly. I do not hear anybody complaining that Batman said to R'as "But I don't have to save you." AT least as a line itself, as in it emasculates Ra's.

    There is truth to what you say right there.
     
    #173
  24. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    Disagree on Two-Face. He is more a tragic hero than villain. Yes, I could see him in a whole film, but only at a broader version of what happened. Two-Face would take down the whole mob and usher in freaks like in The Dark Victory, before dying (again like Dark Victory in that he "died" even if he really didn't).

    Yes, he is Dent for most of the story, but that makes his fall greater. I would say he is the second best "villain," if you want to call him that, in the trilogy. I also would not consider Catwoman a villain in these movies.
     
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  25. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    Again, huh? I will take how Nolan handled Dent over the "tragedy" of Vader, given how awful the SW prequels were. I actually think Dent is the best example in all of comic book films of a character turning. Yes, I think if the movie was three hours, we would have had more scenes of him in the gray zone, but it worked very well.
     
    #175

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