What were D.C.'s best books before I.C.

[yahman]

I keep hearing how good D.C. was before Geoff Johns Infinite Crisis. I was just wondering which books have gone down the ****ter since ? Which books have slipped in standards, in which don't even exist any more ?

 

[Anubis]

Teen Titans, Flash, Gotham Central.

 

[The Leaguer]

New Avengers.

 

[yahman]

Teen Titans, Flash, Gotham Central.

Gotham Central was written by Rucka and Brubaker ?

Was Teen Titans actually good ?

 

[The Leaguer]

Yes and yes. After Infinite Crisis, Johns forgot how to write.

 

[Anubis]

Yup.

Very good. One of the best DC was putting out.

 

[yahman]

New Avengers.

Yeah, scientists shouldn't make jokes !

 

[yahman]

Yup.

Very good. One of the best DC was putting out.

When did it all go down hill ?

Any other books worth mentioning ?

 

[The Leaguer]

Titans went downhill during One Year Later. The Titans Around the World story was like a kick in the balls, and the title has been laying on the floor convulsing and swallowing back down its own vomit ever since.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Yes and yes. After Infinite Crisis, Johns forgot how to write.

Sinestro Corps War?

 

[Anubis]

When they made the 1 year later jump.

They canceled Gotham Central

And Johns left Flash to focus on IC and GL.

Those are the ones that affected me mostly. I'm sure some people would say stuff like Batgirl, Batman, Superman, Action Comics, JLA, JSA, Catwoman, Nightwing especially.

 

[The Leaguer]

Sinestro Corps War?

I stand by my statement.

 

[yahman]

When they made the 1 year later jump.

They canceled Gotham Central

And Johns left Flash to focus on IC and GL.

Those are the ones that affected me mostly. I'm sure some people would say stuff like Batgirl, Batman, Superman, Action Comics, JLA, JSA, Catwoman, Nightwing especially.

I was reading stuff like Superman and Action before I.C. and i think they've improved since Johns took over.

Never read Nightwing, although i was under the impression that Marv Wolfman had a popular run ?

Flash though is a bit of a tragedy. It been a ****ing mess since Wally was taken into the speed force.

Out of interest who would everyne most like to see on the Flash (not including Morisson and Geoff Johns) ?

Never been into batwoman, infact i didn't even know she had a book before I.C.

I intend to track down Gotham Central, G.J.'s, Flash and T.T. runs now, so thanks !

 

[Anubis]

Not Batwoman, Batgirl. Cassandra Cain. They ended her book before the OYL jump. She had finally found herself. She defeated her mother Convincingly, and moved on. One year later the character has become utter ****. But I was never all that into her. Ask Corpy about it.

 

[fifthfiend]

Yes and yes. After Infinite Crisis, Johns forgot how to write.

Johns forgot how to write during IC, people just didn't notice until after it was over.

That "The last time you inspired people was when you died" line was one of the top ten stupidest lines anybody ever wrote in a comic book.

 

[The Leaguer]

Johns and Beechen utterly ruined Batgirl.

That "The last time you inspired people was when you died" line was one of the top ten stupidest lines anybody ever wrote in a comic book.

Correct.

 

[BrianWilly]

Wonder Woman. Adventures of Superman. Even Aquaman. Green Arrow wasn't perfect, but it sure was a helluva lot less dumb.

That "The last time you inspired people was when you died" line was one of the top ten awesomest lines anybody ever wrote in a comic book.

Why yes, I agree!

 

[The Leaguer]

Oh Christ almighty, was Rucka's Adventures of Superman good.

 

[yenaled]

I hate Rucka for being unable to stay on a book.

 

[The Leaguer]

I have little doubt Adventures was taken from him for OYL.

 

[BrianWilly]

Additionally, Birds of Prey isn't actually bad right now, but Simone did her best work pre-OYL.

Speaking of which, there were some ****ing awesome JLA: Classified arcs -- Ellis' and Simone's -- and none of the recent ones seem to compare.

I heard Firestorm was pretty good, though I read very little of it.

 

[fifthfiend]

Why yes, I completely stopped reading comics for the thirteen years between Death of Superman and Infinite Crisis!

Really? You should have kept up, you missed some pretty inspiring Superman comics.

 

[fifthfiend]

Actually that would have been a great line if anyone had bothered to edit it for accuracy.

"The last time you inspired anybody was when you died. Except for that time the Justice League defeated the White Martians and you spoke words which defined the raison'd'etre for the very institution of superheroics. Or the time you fought the Elite singlehandedly and defeated them without ever stooping to their violently amoral level. Or that time we teamed up with our descendents from the sixty-third millenia to save our present and a future in which you yourself had become one with the very Sun to serve as a beacon of heroism and selflessness for all of humanity. Or the time you stood at the forefront of a war against intergalactic annihilation with the Earth as a battleground and set aside your deepest enmities to strike the decisive blows that freed all reality from both annihilation and eternal enslavement by an artificially intelligent madman. Or... wait, what were we talking about? **** baby I'm sorry, let's never fight again."

 

[Aristotle]

Frankly, I can't think of a book that I didn't think was at least good, if not awesome and firing on all cylinders going into Infinite Crisis. Action and Catwoman were mediocre, but the rest of the line was phenomenal. There were also some really solid, fun, relatively self-contained books coming out, like Bloodhound, H-E-R-O, Monolith, etc. Even the "random miniseries" output was good. Adam Strange tied into IC, but was solid in its own right.

 

[BrianWilly]

It was just Batman being a dick. It didn't need to be accurate, the point was that everyone was just being ****s to each other. It wasn't all that accurate that Diana lost her way or whatever either, but it was just what the three -- and by meta-extention, casual comic book readers -- thought of the other at the moment.

Anyone who's actually been reading those books up to that point knew that Superman was still inspirational, and Wonder Woman was still humane, and Batman was still rational. But that didn't stop those criticisms from being the biggest things that the fandom perceived. We all know what I'm talking about; "Superman's too soft and not proactive enough! Wonder Woman's too unrelatable and godlike! Batman's a meanie and a lunatic!" The great DC Trinity of p***y, ***hole, and dick. It didn't matter that it wasn't true, the masses still cited it.

And all of this was just Johns' way of portraying that perception, addressing that perception...and maybe fixing the perception. Whether or not it actually worked is up for debate, but the entirety of Infinite Crisis was just one giant meta-examination of comics, comicbook characters, and of the fandom.