what would you like to see in season 2 of Wolverine and the X-Men

[Dread]

Good to see you, TheVileOne! Yeah, I can relate to that dynamic, since, as my signature notes below, I am technically being paid to write for Examiner.com now as well. It's why I post comic book reviews for the week there first.

I'm sort of replying and commenting; I do understand the idea that debate about Season 1 can seem moot with a second in production. Still, until we get more information about Season 2, there is only so much to talk about.

You do have a point about Storm/Archangel/Mister Sinister. The irony is in the comics during the MORLOCK MASSACRE era, Storm was powerless and actually was leading the X-Men around then; Cyclops was with X-Factor or doing other stuff a lot. So you are correct that even if her relationship with Warren seemed "quickly established" in Season 1, dealing with that in Season 2 should give her something to do. She isn't an easy character to write, and I would argue no cartoon has fully grasped her yet. Perhaps few can besides Chris Claremont.

I actually got to re-watch most of Season 1 alongside a friend (Mixairian on SHH) recently so I was sort of "refreshed" on this debut season for the show. While I will concede I was probably a bit harsh on some areas, my overall criticisms and praises about it stand. Still, even the worst episodes of the season weren't "bad"; merely about average or not far above. Compared to the debut season of, say, THE BATMAN or TEEN TITANS, that's an accomplishment.

I love the dynamic established between Xavier/Scott/Bobby. Scott (and the others) had to work twice as hard to get half the slack Xavier would cut Bobby and Scott resented him for that. It was a fascinating thread and made all three of their characters strong IMO.

That's true. Frankly, while some fans didn't like that some characters only showed up once or twice, like Iceman, Colossus, and Nightcrawler, all three of them got some solid episodes for their appearances. Iceman was actually featured in the Japanese animated intros for Japanese dubbed international airings of the show despite only being in that one episode (in Season 3, no less), unless you count a few flashback scenes.

Yeah, there was some excellent stuff in that episode. They really thought it through and didn't just go, "Let's put in Iceman for the sake of Iceman!" They thought of what's the essential core to Iceman's character, how they could adapt that and stretch it while still making it true to the core idea and how that dynamic can work with current dynamics on the show and make the "cast" based on that (Xavier as the guy who coddled him, Cyclops as the guy who wouldn't put up with him, Beast as his friend who was in the middle, Jubliee as the newcomer with sympathy for her and Wolverine as the newcomer who's similar to him but at the same time, has no sympathy). They really went the extra mile in terms of writing and as Dread says, the animation was above-standard as well. My favorite episode. It's an ideal any show, including WATXM, could live up to.

Yeah, that episode did have some interesting pathos. It also showed Iceman as being efficient even with his wisecracks or being a bit hot-headed. He escaped X-Factor's restraints rather quickly, after all. Despite the years since being with the X-Men when it counted, he got back into the idea of teamwork to prevail. He was cemented as one of the "founders" and did seem to act like it. Cyclops was often stiff in that show but the episode did get some good reactions out of him.

There are a LOT of things about the 90's X-MEN show that haven't aged well. The animation wasn't always great even for the time, the colors and energy effects were bright, and some of the dialogue was painful. But the overall writing of the show and the characters set the standard for today. It was the best team superhero show long before JUSTICE LEAGUE debuted and got good.

Funny, that reminds me of a review I read for the Past Directions episode at the Marvel Animation Age website - Wolverine is not a bad character, not is his voice actor, Steven Blum, to blame. This is merely a case of Fonzie syndrome. Wolverine, like Fonzarelli, is a scene-stealing sideman but a horrific failure when he is shunted into the role of leading man.

Of course, the reviews for Wolvie & the X-Men at that site are horribly uneven and inconsistent. One review, the reviewer claims Cyclops is the "breakout star" of the show, then in the next review writes that Emma Frost is the "breakout star". That same reviewer wrote of Breakdown "This version of Cyclops is angry, fractured and not the leader; but he is still unmistakably Cyclops." I respectfully disagree.

Toonzone.net reviews are opinions so they're subject to disagreement.

This reminds me of a Japanese Anime series I followed, a 1980s OVA series called Bubblegum Crisis (commonly referred to as BGC), later remade as a TV series in the late 90s: BGC Tokyo 2040. Despite that silly title, it was a cyber punk sci-fi adventure series that dealt with a group of vigilante women in fancy combat armor (meca or mecha) fighting dangerous cyborgs vaguely similar to the Replicants from "Blade Runner". In this 4 woman group there was an obligatory rebellious bad girl, Priss Asagiri, big mouthed, bad tempered biker and singer with a penchant for seeking revenge (which dominated most of the 80s OVA). In other words, she played the Wolverine role, but not nearly as endearing, not in the original version anyway. Like Wolverine, or Fonzie or Han Solo, she worked better as part of the team rather than as the lead, but her popularity with fans had her shoved into the limelight a lot in the original version, and those installments as a result don't hold up quite as well from a story telling standpoint. The TV remake had the decency to downplay her as a lead in favor of her teammates.

But enough about that.

I actually know of BUBBLEGUM CRISIS.

I agree, the way they did it really undermined the credibility behind the whole 'watch him struggle to be the hero we know he is' because, apparently he was never much of a hero to begin with. Having a crappy doesn't make him sympathetic, having a crappy life alone doesn't make any character automatically sympathetic (what X-Men characters haven't had crappy lives?) it's what they do despite the tragedy that determines whether or not they're sympathetic. If Cyclops had stood up to Magneto & defeated him on his own gumption, that would have been heroic & sympathetic. If Cyclops had gotten the others into a huddle and pitched them the plan to defeat Magneto utilizing each memb'ers particular power, that would have been heroic & sympathetic. Having Jean basically wrestle with Magneto for the bus & encouraging Cycke to zap him is neither heroic nor sympathetic. For all we know, Jean was the one really calling the shots and she telepathically used Cyclops as a mouth piece to filter the plans.

And portraying Cyclops as both an incompetent wimp and later an insecure super-jerk doesn't do Jean any favors either, as it just makes you wonder about her taste in men, to say nothing of questioning Xavier's choice of henchmen or how the team got by as long as it did with this putz in charge. Sure Wolverine was a jerk for hitting on Jean when she clearly had a boyfriend, but what Cyclops did was much, much worse. And the whole Jean making Wolverine promise not to fight Scott felt like it came out of some bad high school soap opera. Or amateur fan fiction.

Like I've said, I think they overcompensated on establishing Cyclops' flaws this season and while the premise wasn't a bad one and don't get me wrong, he did have some solid moments (he and Nightcrawler easily got some of the best fight sequences in the show so far), the execution could have been a little better. They didn't do a good enough job of showing where Cyclops fell from. I think that relates to bypassing the "origin" of the X-Men by and large, feeling that after two cartoon shows and three films, "the audience knows it". And while that's well and good, that may have helped the show have a foundation. Maybe if, say, the Silver Samurai episode were saved for Season 2 and we maybe had another episode at the start giving more time to the pre-explosion status quo, making "Hindsight" 4 parts perhaps. But that's in hindsight itself.

That said, there were some hints of Cyclops not being a total cad. At the end of "Excessive Force" he does admit to being wrong and needing to get his head together after the fight with Multiple Man and Sinister. Logan chews him out later and he's a total jerk/hypocrite about the entire situation, but Cyclops doesn't argue with him, likely still feeling humbled (I still don't like that scene, but I'll take it for what it is). And of course at the start of Episode 20, when Cyclops' error causes Juggernaut to get away and he and Logan to be hurt, he's willing to leave the X-Men (like Logan suggested in episode 12) since his head still wasn't into it and he didn't want to endanger anyone else. Much as with X-MEN EVOLUTION and Rogue, Scott had faith in Emma Frost when Wolverine and the rest of the X-Men didn't, and she ended up saving the day. Now of course Logan didn't learn to trust Frost from Scott at all, but from Future Xavier relaying a message from Future Logan, but whatever. At the very least, Scott has good taste in women, even if he's the personification of "damaged goods" apparently. Wolverine's tastes in women were Mystique (a terrorist) and one whose husband could command armies of ninja that ended up placing the X-Men in at least as much danger if not more than Scott picking a fight with Sinister (even if I always liked Mariko).

Superman often seems to struggle in this department.

Indeed. And he's been around longer.

 

[TheVileOne]

Something I want to add to the discussion. Since Greg Johnson has dashed my hopes and dreams of seeing Rogue/Wolverine happen in the show, and I do not like Mystique/Wolverine (ARGH!), my hope is that we can get some Wolverine/Domino action. I put forth this idea to Steve Blum and Chris Yost during our interview, not that I have really any expectations of a "Sex and Violence" version of Wolverine and The X-men happening. But hey, Timm and Dini adapted Mad Love for TNBA, so why not?

Steve Blum was game, and even in the future episodes, when Wolverine is laying it out, Domino's all like "You always were a sweet talker." When Domino joined X-Force, I think Kyle and Yost sort of pretty plainly laid out that Domino is attracted to Logan or at least Domino really likes Logan and the way Logan handles his business (Domino does it in much the same way, she doesn't mind pulling the trigger). Domino and Logan previously had an affair when they were doing an op in the pages of NEW X-MEN ANNUAL '01. So there's precedence plus the upcoming Sex and Violence miniseries.

I see the chemistry because Logan and Domino are both in their own way damaged and in some ways broken individuals. They both were experimented upon (well we don't know THAT much about Domino's past in the new show) and they both have very dark views of the world despite being on opposite sides. They are glass half-empty types.

So basically I see no reason why you can't do a similar setup where Domino's being targeted and on the run and shows up wounded on the doorstep of the X-mansion and Logan's around and decides to take up and help her. Voila, animated version of Sex and Violence.

Domino/Wolverine is my OTP!

 

[Dread]

Even if the dynamic between Rogue and Logan wasn't "intended" to be in any way romantic, I think that much like in the films, it straddles the line of mentor/crush territory for Rogue, even if the writers don't intend it. It's how it comes off. Young women often become attracted in mysterious older men. It works either way; you can read more into it, or not. Surely anyone that Rogue decides to genuinely pursue would have to measure up to her opinion of Logan in some way.

Logan and Domino? Eh, why not? I don't know Domino terribly well but she was handled decently in W&TXM so far. It isn't like she and Logan don't have a lot in common. Out of Quicksilver's band of Brotherhood, she was probably the most level headed one; Toad, Blob, and Avalanche were simple thugs who probably liked it for the violence, while she still had faith in the general goal. Without Magneto or Quicksilver in the equation after Genosha, Domino could wind up straddling that middle-ground like Scarlet Witch (who Nightcrawler was interested in). I wouldn't be opposed to it at all if it was handled well. In the comics she was an X-FORCE mainstay, and they usually were a more "militant" branch of X-Men, so she could wind up aiding the X-Men more.

Considering the Mojo subplot still likely will get another episode, I am curious when Longshot will be reanimated and whether any of Ultimate's recent updates would be utilized.

 

[TheVileOne]

Even if the dynamic between Rogue and Logan wasn't "intended" to be in any way romantic, I think that much like in the films, it straddles the line of mentor/crush territory for Rogue, even if the writers don't intend it. It's how it comes off. Young women often become attracted in mysterious older men. It works either way; you can read more into it, or not. Surely anyone that Rogue decides to genuinely pursue would have to measure up to her opinion of Logan in some way.

I agree with you and even in the movies, Singer at least acknowledged it in a certain way by having Mystique turn into Rogue when she tried to seduce Logan in his tent. The relationship between the Logan and Rogue in the series is one of the sort of movie like elements that WATXM picked up.

Logan and Domino? Eh, why not? I don't know Domino terribly well but she was handled decently in W&TXM so far. It isn't like she and Logan don't have a lot in common. Out of Quicksilver's band of Brotherhood, she was probably the most level headed one; Toad, Blob, and Avalanche were simple thugs who probably liked it for the violence, while she still had faith in the general goal. Without Magneto or Quicksilver in the equation after Genosha, Domino could wind up straddling that middle-ground like Scarlet Witch (who Nightcrawler was interested in). I wouldn't be opposed to it at all if it was handled well. In the comics she was an X-FORCE mainstay, and they usually were a more "militant" branch of X-Men, so she could wind up aiding the X-Men more.

Exactly, Domino fits in a lot more with Logan's more militant line of thinking which is one of the reasons they have such great chemistry and why in the comics Domino appreciates Logan as a leader. Or at least the way Logan does business. Domino isn't afraid of getting her hands dirty.

Considering the Mojo subplot still likely will get another episode, I am curious when Longshot will be reanimated and whether any of Ultimate's recent updates would be utilized.

Mojo will come up again I'm sure and I like that's something they left open ended to address later since they still aren't sure exactly what Mojo is.

 

[Dread]

I agree with you and even in the movies, Singer at least acknowledged it in a certain way by having Mystique turn into Rogue when she tried to seduce Logan in his tent. The relationship between the Logan and Rogue in the series is one of the sort of movie like elements that WATXM picked up.

Precisely. It can be seen both ways. Of course in a PG-13 movie that sort of thing can go farther than in a network cartoon. To be honest, the only American cartoon show that straight up got into the idea of a young heroine romantically dating a clearly old man was the subplot in BATMAN BEYOND when Barbara Gordon brought up dating Bruce Wayne, a subplot that makes a minor appearance in BATMAN: MYSTERY OF THE BATWOMAN. Which was implyed and never shown on screen. If you want that on screen, you need SAILOR MOON.

At any rate, as an inherited bit from the movie world, it could be seen either way even if the writers don't outright intend for it to be seen a certain way. It works either way. Which is good.

Exactly, Domino fits in a lot more with Logan's more militant line of thinking which is one of the reasons they have such great chemistry and why in the comics Domino appreciates Logan as a leader. Or at least the way Logan does business. Domino isn't afraid of getting her hands dirty.

To continue that theme, Domino does have some similarities to Mystique, since W&TXM says Logan dated her before his Weapon X mind-wipe. Lacking Wolverine's physical power, both rely on stealth, guile, and gun-play. Logan often feels himself "unworthy" of more pure types like Mariko and he usually plays better with ones like himself. In the future he's leading a pack of X-23 clones after all.

If the two are becoming linked in X-FORCE, I wouldn't be surprised to see that crop up in Season 2. It's not illegal for a writer or writers to rip off themselves.

Mojo will come up again I'm sure and I like that's something they left open ended to address later since they still aren't sure exactly what Mojo is.

Their Mojo is more like the canon kind than Ultimate, but it remains to be seen whether he really hails from another universe or he and Spiral are just insane cyborg leaders. I wouldn't mind a decent attempt to keep him more earthly grounded.

 

[TheVileOne]

edit, dp.

 

[Panthro]

So Vile, why do you dislike the Wolverine/Mystique idea so much? I'm not defending it by any means, I'm just curious.

 

[TheVileOne]

I just don't like it period .

I dunno. I think IMHO, its sort of like a crack pairing. I don't find it all that interesting or compelling as a pairing. Its like I think Wolverine/Mystique, I think meh. It doesn't work IMHO. When I think of pairings, I think I think of them because I want them to work.

 

[Dread]

I thought the episode handled it well enough, but it did seem awkward. Mystique was able to elevate a solo Wolverine episode from "meh" to "good" through her wit, but I do agree with Vile that it felt somewhat obligatory. Mystique and Logan did meet in the past in the comics, but that's because of the cliche that Wolverine met nearly everyone in his hidden past. He's slept with everyone, and he's adventured with everyone from Cap to Thor to God himself way way back and he just can't remember. She was never part of Weapon X. She was briefly considered as part of Mark Millar's original pitch of ULTIMATE X-MEN, which was written during the end of Clinton's tenure in office, but he changed it and it took her ages to show up there.

It seemed to me that they took the dynamic from the films, that Mystique flirted with Wolverine out of some respect for his ability to "scar" her in battle, and extended from it to make them a couple, at least in the past. In the episode Mystique herself shuts that door, claiming Logan is no longer the same man she fell in love with during Weapon X. Yeah, he no longer is self sacrificing or willing to do the moral thing in the end.

Now, I am not opposed to a cartoon trying new pairings. Beyond Nocturne from EXILES having it in her back-story, Nightcrawler and Scarlet Witch never dated or even interacted much in the comics, but their relationship was handled well and I liked it. Storm and Angel, beyond some attractions in an ULTIMATE X-MEN comic, never were a couple either, and I didn't mind that sudden subplot (if only because it gave Storm something to do; it probably should have been built up better). Lord knows these same writers/producers created some unique relationships in X-MEN EVOLUTION and by and large they all worked out (even Toad's sad little crush on Wanda). The difference is that X-MEN EVOLUTION's almost exclusive focus was on character and relationships; stuff like plot and action came second. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN is a more plot and action oriented show, with characterization happening in spurts when there's time. Therefore, sometimes there will be some awkwardness in new relationships.

I wouldn't be opposed to something happening between Logan and Domino, especially if it is something Kyle & Yost are doing in their ultra-violent X-FORCE. Lord knows they've been keen to throw X-23 at everyone despite how boring she is.

One relationship I would like to see is Colossus and Shadowcat. They had romantic tension long before Gambit was created so Rogue could attach to him, and it's yet to be depicted in any animated or movie medium. Even Joss Whedon worked with it! If that creates a triangle with Iceman, hey, so be it, that might make it interesting. Both are similar, only Iceman has more of a sense of humor, while Colossus may be more artistic. The ages are blurry on this show so I doubt that is a concern. It would give Piotr something to do between smashing things.

 

[TheVileOne]

Let me be clear, I don't have a problem with how they handled their past relationship in the series. I just don't care to see anything else come of it. Like I don't want current Mystique and Wolverine in the series to get together.

 

[Dread]

Fair enough. I concur with that, but if it's handled well, who knows. That said, if they're pushing Domino in X-FORCE, then she's a possibility.

 

[TheVileOne]

Wolverine and the X-men meets X-Force: Sex and Violence. Make it happen guys.

 

[Panthro]

I actually know of BUBBLEGUM CRISIS.

Really? Did you watch it or just read about it?

I hope Cyclops stops wearing that stupid trench coat when he's on missions. It makes him look like a Gambit knock off.

 

[Dread]

Really? Did you watch it or just read about it?

I hope Cyclops stops wearing that stupid trench coat when he's on missions. It makes him look like a Gambit knock off.

I heard about the original BGC and saw some of the more recent version, like 1-3 episodes.

I found myself growing on the trench design for Cyclops. Steve E. Gordon was obviously inspired by some of the recent John Cassaday designs for many of the X-Men in this show, and Cyclops was no exception. However, I've always felt that Cyke's design from Cassaday (for Joss Whedon's 25 issue run of ASTONISHING X-MEN) was a bit bland and was too close to the Dave Cockrum/John Bryne design of the 1970's. I wasn't fond of the return of the skull cap, and thought there was too much blue. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, though, muted the blue a lot on that costume so it looked very close to black. However, it still is a simple, rather bland costume design; not bad but not dynamic. The trench I think was a way to add some flair to it, as it's the closest thing to a cape without, well, a cape (which would look silly on Cyclops). In some still pics I was iffy about it but in motion I think it worked well on Cyclops, adding a little life to what is a little generic outfit. The trench being a shade of gray was probably a deliberate choice; he was obsessed with a Grey, and his morals were/are Grey.

Remove the trench and the skull-cap, though, and I would probably like it. But no trench and with skull-cap is a little boring for me. In reality so long as Cyclops and Gambit are not on screen at the same time, it will work.

 

[Panthro]

I heard about the original BGC and saw some of the more recent version, like 1-3 episodes.

Ah. Gotcha.

I found myself growing on the trench design for Cyclops. Steve E. Gordon was obviously inspired by some of the recent John Cassaday designs for many of the X-Men in this show, and Cyclops was no exception. However, I've always felt that Cyke's design from Cassaday (for Joss Whedon's 25 issue run of ASTONISHING X-MEN) was a bit bland and was too close to the Dave Cockrum/John Bryne design of the 1970's. I wasn't fond of the return of the skull cap, and thought there was too much blue. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, though, muted the blue a lot on that costume so it looked very close to black. However, it still is a simple, rather bland costume design; not bad but not dynamic. The trench I think was a way to add some flair to it, as it's the closest thing to a cape without, well, a cape (which would look silly on Cyclops). In some still pics I was iffy about it but in motion I think it worked well on Cyclops, adding a little life to what is a little generic outfit. The trench being a shade of gray was probably a deliberate choice; he was obsessed with a Grey, and his morals were/are Grey.

Remove the trench and the skull-cap, though, and I would probably like it. But no trench and with skull-cap is a little boring for me. In reality so long as Cyclops and Gambit are not on screen at the same time, it will work.

Hmm. Well, some heroes can make the cape work, and others can't.

Granted, when I think of Cyclops, the first image that pops into my head is his 90s design, when he lost the skull cap.

So, with Havok set to appear next season, do you think they'll bother exploring his relationship with Polaris, or do you think they'll just leave it on the cutting room floor? I'd feel a little bad if they did that, seeing as how these two get so little exposure.

 

[Dread]

Hmm. Well, some heroes can make the cape work, and others can't.

Granted, when I think of Cyclops, the first image that pops into my head is his 90s design, when he lost the skull cap.

So, with Havok set to appear next season, do you think they'll bother exploring his relationship with Polaris, or do you think they'll just leave it on the cutting room floor? I'd feel a little bad if they did that, seeing as how these two get so little exposure.

To be honest the 90's design did have, well some details that were best left to the 1990's, such as the buckles and pockets, but the loss of the skull-cap was a good look for him (albeit while Jim Lee's design was famous for that, some of his earlier X-FACTOR designs also lost the skull-cap, but were not as fondly remembered). He just looks better with exposed hair. But that's a personal choice.

As for Havok and Polaris, it depends on how old they make him. Granted, ages is something that WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN has at times had difficulty establishing. Polaris is presumably supposed to be at least as old as Kitty Pryde in this show, but often seems younger (especially compared to Gambit). In the comics, the age gap between Cyclops and Havok actually used to be SIX years; nowadays it has been "adjusted" to being about 2-3. I did not see the design at the Con but he could look in step with Polaris. Considering that Lorna got a fair amount of focus in Season 1, it might not be unreasonable to possibly see some for Alex in Season 2. It is worth nothing that while it was only for one episode, the 90's episode "Cold Comforts" mentioned before with Iceman had the Havok/Lorna dynamic. It isn't much, but it's more than Colossus/Shadowcat has gotten in any alternate medium (besides maybe video games).

 

[Panthro]

To be honest the 90's design did have, well some details that were best left to the 1990's, such as the buckles and pockets, but the loss of the skull-cap was a good look for him (albeit while Jim Lee's design was famous for that, some of his earlier X-FACTOR designs also lost the skull-cap, but were not as fondly remembered). He just looks better with exposed hair. But that's a personal choice.

I guess that to a lot of other fans and/or artists, the skull-cap is simply the iconic/classic Cyclops "look", probably because that was the look he originally sported and has sported for most of his career.

As for Havok and Polaris, it depends on how old they make him. Granted, ages is something that WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN has at times had difficulty establishing. Polaris is presumably supposed to be at least as old as Kitty Pryde in this show, but often seems younger (especially compared to Gambit). In the comics, the age gap between Cyclops and Havok actually used to be SIX years; nowadays it has been "adjusted" to being about 2-3. I did not see the design at the Con but he could look in step with Polaris. Considering that Lorna got a fair amount of focus in Season 1, it might not be unreasonable to possibly see some for Alex in Season 2. It is worth nothing that while it was only for one episode, the 90's episode "Cold Comforts" mentioned before with Iceman had the Havok/Lorna dynamic. It isn't much, but it's more than Colossus/Shadowcat has gotten in any alternate medium (besides maybe video games).

I guess we'll just have to wait what the writers do next.

 

[Dread]

I guess that to a lot of other fans and/or artists, the skull-cap is simply the iconic/classic Cyclops "look", probably because that was the look he originally sported and has sported for most of his career.

Yeah. I've never been a fan of it. Granted, the 1990's cartoon was what turned me onto the X-Men franchise, so there you go. I'd been aware of the X-Men before 1992-1993 via trading cards and guest stuff, but never wanted to go read any reprints until the show aired.

I guess we'll just have to wait what the writers do next.

Yeah, we're all playing the waiting game. I do wonder when we'll see our first teaser about Season 2. Or hell, even an officially released image?

(The pics of Deadpool weren't "official", just taken with a cell and circulated)

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I think Deadpool will probably look like he did in Hulk VS.

 

[Panthro]

I have a confession to make - I've never read the Age of Apocalypse. Read about it, but never read the book itself. Since it's going to be a big factor next season, is it really worth the trouble of reading?

 

[Dread]

I think Deadpool will probably look like he did in Hulk VS.

A blurry image snapped from the SDCC was shown a while ago and it showed the design. He has a few more pounds from HULK VS., as this would have been designed by Steve E. Gordon. But, he looked cool.

I have a confession to make - I've never read the Age of Apocalypse. Read about it, but never read the book itself. Since it's going to be a big factor next season, is it really worth the trouble of reading?

I didn't read a whole lot of it either. The Gist was that Legion went back in time to before the X-Men were created to try to kill Magneto in the past, but ended up killing Xavier. This led to a reality in which Magneto formed the X-Men to honor Xavier while Apocalypse took over most of America. Wolverine was Weapon X and worked against him, alongside Jean Grey (who was his lover). The Summers brothers worked alongside Mr. Sinister and Dark Beast with Apocalypse and while Havok was blindly loyal, Cyclops eventually figured out that Apocalypse was no good and sought to undermine him from within. Rogue was also Magneto's lover and a slew of characters were redesigned or different, made "edgier". Only Bishop vaguely recalled what the "proper" reality was, and was often seen as delusional. Ultimately Apocalypse was killed by Magneto in a final assault and there was a big explosive finish, although more material was written beyond that conclusion because Marvel smelled a buck to be made.

The 1990's X-MEN two-parter, "ONE MAN'S WORTH" in season 4 loosely alluded to this storyline, back when it was fresh. In that show Fritzroy from Bishop's future of 2055 killed Xavier in high school, thus creating a world without the X-Men in which Magneto led them against both the U.S. government as well as Apocalypse. Fritzroy, like Legion, was eventually stopped and everything brought back to how it was.

In the AGE OF APOCALYPSE story, Cyclops and Wolverine had some climatic battle, and while Wolverine lost a hand, Cyclops lost one of his eyes. This was back before Wolverine could regenerate from even a nuke to the skull, though.

One imagines that WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN Season 2 may night exactly use the Legion element (although Johnson, Kyle and Kirkland did co-write Legion into the final episodes of EVOLUTION, so they are aware of the character); they may merely use costume designs and some allusions or homages to their new alternate future of 2029 where Apocalypse rules. Some have questioned whether the writers would allow Cyclops to have an "undermine from within" angle or if he would simply wind up a pawn of Apocalypse to be beaten by Wolverine. Part of me doubts that this show's crew will wait forever for a true Wolverine vs. Cyclops fight (which has never been animated or even written much in the comics), and as for the winner...well, one of them is in the title, and one isn't. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be amusing to watch. Anyone who watched HULK VS. THOR and seriously expected Thor to win (or even hold his own) against Hulk is kidding themselves, but it was still a cool sight and written well.

 

[EvilClareToo]

Hi everyone. I’m new around here. I was directed over to these boards by some lovely posters on another board (hi panthro!), and after skimming through these posts, it is nice to see people having civilized and interesting discussions about the X Men, and this show particularly. I enjoyed reading Vile’s, Dread’s and Panthro’s insights into the characters and speculations into season 2.

Here are some of my humble thoughts on the matter…

Age of Apocalypse: This was a huge crossover that involved more X Men splinter groups that you can shake a stick at (X Men, Generation X, X-ternals, X-Calibre, just to name a few). To do this timeline justice, they would have to spend at least 3-4 episodes focused on AoA. Obviously, the cast will have to be cut down a bit, maybe focusing on the core X men group led by Magneto, maybe combining Gen X and X-Calibre, though I would love to see the X-ternals show up(minus Lila Cheney-pleaaaasssee!!!). I wonder how grim they are going to make AoA-I found it a tough, depressing, nightmarish read (which is not necessarily a bad thing!) I’m curious to hear what other posters think about who will show up and in what capacity in AoA, as well as how they are going to handle the M’Kraan crystal plot since I don’t see them going for any outer space storylines in WTXM.

Present time line: Season One nearly fell into the X3 trap of trying to do too many storylines, but just managed to make it. In season 2 I would like to see new versions of classic storylines which hopefully have some connection to AoA. The Morlock Massacre would be a good one, especially if it brings Gambit into the X Men fold. I have a feeling that some sort of “cure” storyline will also be used, hopefully along the lines of Whedon’s Gifted arc, since we were teased about the mutant cure in “Guardian Angel” but then never heard more about it for the rest of the season. I assumed that they were probably going to use it for season 2. Kavita Rao and Tildie Soames have also been introduced, so I see this as a definite possibility. I am looking forward to seeing Colossus joining the team, since the animated series always seemed to give him the short end of the stick.

Characters: As a long time Gambit fan, I was a bit disappointed by this version of him. They got a lot of things right with him by Aces and Eights: his look, his pseudo-Cajun accent was passable, his bravado and charm, and a great fight sequence with Senyaka and Mellencamp that displayed his various fighting skills. What I had a big problem with is that they made him a sociopath. Gambit is a very popular X Men character because he is a lovable, roguish anti-hero with a golden heart-this Gambit is a 2-D villain who has no problem selling out mutants and potentially killings hundreds of people. This is a 180 of his comic book character. Why Greg Johnson and co insist on making him a bad guy in this series as well when they have loads of baddies in the X universe to choose from, is beyond me…I just hope they did this to do some “redemption” storyline in season 2. And please bring in some Thieves Guild stuff-I love the southern gothic nature of the concept. I would also like to see some Romy action this season, mainly because here we can start from scratch and undo the horrible soap operatic mess comic book writers have made it into since the mid-90’s.

I am also disappointed with Storm and Rogue’s characterizations and design as well. I hope they do something with them in season 2-Storm becoming a bit more assertive and Rogue getting Ms. Marvel’s powers and lightening up a bit-we have enough angsty, tough mutant women already (and Domino does it better)!!!!

Cyclops: I think y’all have covered him pretty well…

Wolverine: ditto

Angel: He had some great character development in season 1 (I never really was interested in him much in the comics, but this series has made me a fanJ ), but just as it was getting good, he suddenly becomes Archangel who basically just goes around trying to kill X Men-boring! Bring Angel back!

Keep up the camoes! Playing “spot the mutant” is fun! Hopefully we will get a whole school to fill in season 2.

More Nightcrawler, Firestar (she got me into the X Men!), and Dust. And a big HELLO to one of my favs, DEADPOOL!!!!!

Lesser known X villains like Vargas and Fabien Cortez to pop up

As little as possible to no: Mojo, Savage Land, Nanny robot, Longshot

I think I’ll stop here. Thanks y’all for bearing with me and my rambling post.

 

[Panthro]

Hi EvilClare! Welcome to the hype! The more users, the merrier!

 

[Zant]

Hey everyone I'm new here too I love this show and can't wait for season 2. My main hope for season 2 is that the show stays grounded,I was surprised how grounded season 1 was so I hope it stays the same and not end up like the 90s series with alien of the week . Oh and I like cyclops on this show

 

[EvilClareToo]

Hey everyone I'm new here too I love this show and can't wait for season 2. My main hope for season 2 is that the show stays grounded,I was surprised how grounded season 1 was so I hope it stays the same and not end up like the 90s series with alien of the week . Oh and I like cyclops on this show

I don't see them doing any alien stuff on this show. And you like Cyclops on this show-you are a brave poster! Why do you like him here, out of curiosity?