The Dark Knight What's up with the stupid goons?

[Ama Zing]

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is so much with the prologue dialogue. The dialogue simply went over the action and added to it, the action certainly didn't slow down to excuse the dialogue.
And look at it as a stand alone film, it makes sense. Most every heist film doesn't have the explaination during the heist because it's always before or after. Since there's no prior planning and we're not listening to the cop report, we need the 'walkthrough' while the scene's playing out.

 

[Numez]

Oh, I don't know. I think releasing the prologue was a mistake in the first place. From what I gather - I refuse to see it just yet - most of it is comprised of amateur actors, the goons. That's hardly going to get people excited about Batman.

 

[Heisenberg]

I kinda liked the "where did you learn to count?" exchange

I thought it was great. Joker clearly told him he was out so that the Bank Manager would take his final shot at him. Pretty funny, without being too stupid.

 

[Anita18]

My problem with that argument is nothing about those plot points were entirely complex to begin with. If they had kept the dialog from the car, the very last one with Joker ("I bet the boss told you to kill me..."), the bank manager's lines, and erased everything else...would it have been hard to put all the pieces together?

What part would have been confusing without the lines?

I'm trying to imagine it as you suggest, and I think it would be really awkward. I mean, why wouldn't two goons talk about their mysterious boss and/or the crazy bank security as they work together, especially if they've never met each other before? It also gets across the feeling that these guys think they're on a typical job. If they knew it was super-important, the tension between them would be extremely high and they probably wouldn't be talking. As far as these guys know, they were hired for a bank robbery and it's something they've probably done many times before. It makes for good contrast for the end, where it's clear that the Joker really has turned the tables on them.

I was only dubious of the "war paint" description, but the exchange itself was believable.

 

[Ama Zing]

I'm trying to imagine it as you suggest, and I think it would be really awkward. I mean, why wouldn't two goons talk about their mysterious boss and/or the crazy bank security as they work together, especially if they've never met each other before? It also gets across the feeling that these guys think they're on a typical job. If they knew it was super-important, the tension between them would be extremely high and they probably wouldn't be talking. As far as these guys know, they were hired for a bank robbery and it's something they've probably done many times before. It makes for good contrast for the end, where it's clear that the Joker really has turned the tables on them.

I was only dubious of the "war paint" description, but the exchange itself was believable.

I agree. Especially with it being shown in front of audiences who may not be expcting it, a good amount of information is needed beyond 'Joker put this together.' While I didn't like the overuse of Joker in the dialogue, I can see it as a good set up. After all, I was expecting the prologue, but a lot in he theatre didn't seem to know what was going on to begin with.

 

[Crook]

I'm trying to imagine it as you suggest, and I think it would be really awkward. I mean, why wouldn't two goons talk about their mysterious boss and/or the crazy bank security as they work together, especially if they've never met each other before?

Would you honestly be asking that if the footage hadn't shown it? It's not necessary to the actual scene.

It also gets across the feeling that these guys think they're on a typical job. If they knew it was super-important, the tension between them would be extremely high and they probably wouldn't be talking. As far as these guys know, they were hired for a bank robbery and it's something they've probably done many times before. It makes for good contrast for the end, where it's clear that the Joker really has turned the tables on them.

It's not a typical job though. Typical job would be robbing a low-key store. They're in the middle of a city, robbing a huge bank. A mob bank at that. Even if they didn't know that last part, the priority for this job is still clearly high. When was the last time you've heard of a successful bank heist in a highly populated city?

 

[CaptainClown]

Well we really aren't talking reality terms here. Remember the people in Gotham are just a little nutty.

 

[Crook]

Well we really aren't talking reality terms here. Remember the people in Gotham are just a little nutty.

Yes, we're not talking reality only in this case, because it destroys the whole "Nolan always likes to go for the most realistic interpretation in these movies" mentality.

 

[sasquatchs]

If I could take out one exchange it'd be "What kind of bank does that", "A mob bank". They already implied it with the silent alarm dialing a private number and "do you have any idea who you're stealing from?"

 

[CaptainClown]

oh you crook

anyway. He likes to give off that feel like its realistic but its not. I mean how many bank managers have a shotgun, eh well when your defending mob money you might want to.

I think why i accept this dialogue so much is because its a 6 min prologue. If it was longer my standards would be higher.

 

[Ama Zing]

If we only ever put what was 'necessary' into films, movies would be a lot shorter and a lot quieter and not nessecarily better.

 

[CaptainClown]

ya, i think the whole little goon speech really sets the tone of the new guy on the streets. He is this weird guy who wears make up. Then you see him kill his goons in the bank. They really just showed you the whole character with some cheesy lines and action.

 

[Crook]

If we only ever put what was 'necessary' into films, movies would be a lot shorter and a lot quieter and not nessecarily better.

Thousands of indie and Oscar-nominated flicks disagree.

 

[Anita18]

Would you honestly be asking that if the footage hadn't shown it? It's not necessary to the actual scene.

I have no idea, which is why we would have to re-edit it and show it to someone new. IMO the lack of dialogue would change the pacing and mood.

It's not a typical job though. Typical job would be robbing a low-key store. They're in the middle of a city, robbing a huge bank. A mob bank at that. Even if they didn't know that last part, the priority for this job is still clearly high. When was the last time you've heard of a successful bank heist in a highly populated city?

Those two guys on the zipline seemed to be nonplussed about going across, considering how high it was. I'd wager it was something they've done more than a few times.

 

[Ama Zing]

I'm not saying very little doesn't work, just that it doesn't work for everything. And necessary is very subjective; some people think it's necessary to narrate the events, others think the actions speak for themselves. What works for one doesn't work for another, which is obvious in this thread. Everyone has one thing they think could make it better, but no one can really agree and it's moot anyway, because the movie's already been made.

 

[turtlefocker]

It's still better than any scene in the last two Bat-movies...

BF and B&R

 

[CaptainClown]

I think if you wanted less dialogue and use action you would need more minutes to really convey the kind of hate/unusual relationship with their boss

 

[Stotch]

I thought it was great. Joker clearly told him he was out so that the Bank Manager would take his final shot at him. Pretty funny, without being too stupid.

LOL. And I loved how he made it so obvious he was lying. He just paused for a second and quickly nodded. t:

 

[Ama Zing]

It looked like Joker was pretending to count to me, like he was playing off the dumb, silent goon.

 

[GoldenState]

Can't believe theres actually dolts out there complaining about the footage, especially so called fans. Probably same people that ***** about everything.

You want to see Shakespearian type dialogue and intellect from a bunch of small goons you might as well just go into a corner and sit for the rest of your life complaining about every little damn thing thats wrong with the world and don't bother others with your crap.

 

[ActuallyRobin]

Can't believe theres actually dolts out there complaining about the footage, especially so called fans. Probably same people that ***** about everything.

You want to see Shakespearian type dialogue and intellect from a bunch of small goons you might as well just go into a corner and sit for the rest of your life complaining about every little damn thing thats wrong with the world and don't bother others with your crap.

hate to break it to you but they have a right to complain, no matter how little you like their argument.

 

[Crook]

Can't believe theres actually dolts out there complaining about the footage, especially so called fans. Probably same people that ***** about everything.

You want to see Shakespearian type dialogue and intellect from a bunch of small goons you might as well just go into a corner and sit for the rest of your life complaining about every little damn thing thats wrong with the world and don't bother others with your crap.

So basically right now you're complaining about others complaining. Lol.

 

[Stotch]

It looked like Joker was pretending to count to me, like he was playing off the dumb, silent goon.

lol ah, I took it another way. Like he was about to say no, but instead said yes. But yours was better.

 

[CaptainClown]

I would hate to be the dumb silent alarm goon. Joker didn't tell him to kill anybody =(

 

[Anita18]

lol ah, I took it another way. Like he was about to say no, but instead said yes. But yours was better.

It looked like he was counting too, otherwise the other goon wouldn't have said, "Where did you learn to count?" I mean, he obviously wasn't counting.