The Dark Knight What's up with the stupid goons?

[turtlefocker]

that purdy hyphy mate

 

[sasquatchs]

Have you seen the type of person that is involved in a life of crime? Contrary to hollywoods glamouriztion of the common criminal, they are usaully not the brightest creatures on this planet.

Fair point, but then we have Fichtner spouting a romanticized view of the mob at the end

 

[turtlefocker]

I like to think that Batman Begins and The Dark Knight take place in the same universe as The Godfather and The Godfather Part II.

 

[ActuallyRobin]

Fair point, but then we have Fichtner spouting a romanticized view of the mob at the end

crime ain't what it used to be

 

[CaptainClown]

the kkk took my baby away

they took her away from me!

 

[turtlefocker]

I want to be sedated

 

[rory_bat]

Hello... goons=stupid

That is the whole point of having goons. To do tasks for you without questioning.

The end.

 

[rory_bat]

And yes, I only read the first post and responded to that. I'm sure my point has already been brought up but I'm to lazy to read through all the pages.

 

[ActuallyRobin]

Hello... goons=stupid

That is the whole point of having goons. To do tasks for you without questioning.

The end.

best summary ever

 

[Riven]

Hello... goons=stupid

That is the whole point of having goons. To do tasks for you without questioning.

The end.

Too true.


goon

1921, "stupid person," from gony "simpleton" (c.1580), of unknown origin, but applied by sailors to the albatross and similar big, clumsy birds (1839); sense of "hired thug" first recorded 1938.

goon
noun1. an awkward stupid person [syn: lout] 2. an aggressive and violent young criminal [syn: hood]

goon

n. Slang
1. A thug hired to intimidate or harm opponents.
2. A stupid or oafish person.

goon

–noun
1.Informal. a hired hoodlum or thug.
2.Slang. a.a stupid, foolish, or awkward person. b.a roughneck.

 

[TheJaberwock]

I don't get it. After watching the prologue, it's as if every member in Joker's gang is a complete tard. The thing that bottles my mind is that they have a personality of a tard, but they can do difficult tasks like

it bottles your mind? hmm. i've never seen a mind in a bottle...

 

[Ecstasy]

it bottles your mind? hmm. i've never seen a mind in a bottle...

Even thinking about a mind in a bottle boggles me.

 

[bonesawmcgraw]

Mr.Freeze, and his hockey goons were the first things that popped into my head after watching the prologue.

LETS KICK SOME ICE

 

[Anita18]

Batman's in the room and they're having a conversation about how scary he is? Can't they just concentrate on being scared and shooting him? I love the theatrical comparison between the 2 characters, the film just spells out its ideas too simply, on repeat viewings there's not much left to enjoy

I thought it was completely plausible. If you're up against someone whose capabilities you're not sure about, you'd want to share your meager knowledge with the people around you so they're aware of what to expect. Well, to a point.

To me, the dialogue in the prologue wasn't super-clever or super-tight, but it got across the idea quickly that the Joker is new, he's unknown, and he's ruthless.

 

[Thot]

The prologue is quite good. (saw the youtube version). I agree with other posters that the Joker would carefully select perps who were good at their jobs but easy to manipulate, (pretty easy to accept really). My only gripe is the excessive exposition in the goons' dialogue. Does the audience need to hear dialogue explaining so much about Joker (even why he wears makeup?) and the mechanics/motivations of the bank heist itself? IMO it would have been more effective if the whole thing was done in virtual silence, with minimal dialogue and more dependence on body language, context and subtlety. Like a job well-planned, rehearsed and executed to the tee. Overall very good. I like where Nolan has gone with the Joker. Looks like Batman truly has a worthy foe in this one!

 

[hatebox]

Batman's in the room and they're having a conversation about how scary he is? Can't they just concentrate on being scared and shooting him? I love the theatrical comparison between the 2 characters, the film just spells out its ideas too simply, on repeat viewings there's not much left to enjoy

In Begins they didn't know for certain he was there, in fairness.

 

[strikezone89]

why is this thread in the spoiler forum?!

 

[Syncos]

Fair point, but then we have Fichtner spouting a romanticized view of the mob at the end

But that's the thing, The goons aren't mobsters. They're just hired criminals.

There's so much I wanted to respond to here, but I don't feel like picking through it all again. I do want to address sasquatchs' concept of nolan either grounding the movie in complete reality or complete fantasy....

It's not possible for the movie to be -completely- realistic. After all, it's a movie about a guy who dressed up as a bat, to fight crime. if it were to be entirely fantasy, than we'd end up with a terrible Batman and Robin, again.

I think that blending the two genres is the only way we can have a -good- movie. For christ sakes, it Batman, if you're going into it looking for memento or fight club, you're going to the wrong movie.

 

[nightcrawler01]

I don't think the dialogue was cheesy at all either. You can take a 5 minute segment out of almost any movie and pick apart single lines, it's as a whole, how the movie works--granted this wasn't Godfather calibur, but this isn't a serious drama, it's a freakin' awesome comic book movie that will hopefully blow all other comic book movies away, just as Lord of the Rings did too all other Fantasy movies.

They have on board Jonathon Nolan this time around to write. He wasn't on with Batman Begins, and he will be a HUGE improvement. I loved BB, but Jonathon, Chris' brother, helped write Memento and The Prestige, Nolan's other tight movies! Prestige and Memento were really dark too...perfect addition.

I agree, the dialogue definitely wasn't cheesy at all. The dialogue is what the characters speak and so it depends on how it's acted out and it was acted out very well IMO.

as far as stupid goons go.....ummm.....goons are always stupid, that's why they're robbing banks

I think most of you are just complaining about stupid stuff

 

[sasquatchs]

There's so much I wanted to respond to here, but I don't feel like picking through it all again. I do want to address sasquatchs' concept of nolan either grounding the movie in complete reality or complete fantasy....

It's not possible for the movie to be -completely- realistic. After all, it's a movie about a guy who dressed up as a bat, to fight crime. if it were to be entirely fantasy, than we'd end up with a terrible Batman and Robin, again.

I think that blending the two genres is the only way we can have a -good- movie. For christ sakes, it Batman, if you're going into it looking for memento or fight club, you're going to the wrong movie.

Extreme reality isn't really what I want, I don't think any part of Begins was particularly grounded. It's just keeping a level tone and not selling out characters or ideas for the cheap moments that I care about. Some elements are there for lazy gratification at the expense of what they've put so much effort into building up

I don't seem to be going into a recognisable Nolan film is my problem, I never expected such a cartoony approach from him

 

[strider]

that's why they are called goons. now that we've seen Joker's goons, imagine how stupid Maroni's or even Scarecrow's goons are going to be?

 

[Farren]

Hello... goons=stupid

That is the whole point of having goons. To do tasks for you without questioning.

The end.

QFT

And come on, this is a Batman flick, not freakin Michael Mann's Heat 2.

 

[branwen]

Well I thought the goons' lack of brightness completely understandable--I mean Jebus, you can be great at breaking into banks and such (just like you might be a great football player or whatever) but not necessarily have deep wit or intelligence in other ways, you know? And after all I agree what with some others have said, Joker's plan wouldn't work if he'd surrounded himself by geniuses who might figure out what he was up to.

It worked for me. And the dialog also illustrates that no one yet knew who the Joker was, not even the people who the Joker hired to help him heist the bank. This was an important thing to set out right in the beginning of the movie, you know--this was the Joker's grand entrance, you know? Bursting in on Gotham unexpected and yet fully formed. The dialog worked to set this situation up. Maybe not completely 100% how it would be in real life, but this is a story being told, a film, and as such, I think, some things must be done to clue the viewer in on what is going to happen. Anyway.....

 

[Crook]

The prologue is quite good. (saw the youtube version). I agree with other posters that the Joker would carefully select perps who were good at their jobs but easy to manipulate, (pretty easy to accept really). My only gripe is the excessive exposition in the goons' dialogue. Does the audience need to hear dialogue explaining so much about Joker (even why he wears makeup?) and the mechanics/motivations of the bank heist itself? IMO it would have been more effective if the whole thing was done in virtual silence, with minimal dialogue and more dependence on body language, context and subtlety. Like a job well-planned, rehearsed and executed to the tee.

I completely agree. That's probably my biggest gripe with the prologue, despite me liking it overall.

You look at most money heist scenes in movies, there is hardly any conversation about the actual mechanics of the heist (unless it's a prior scene where they're planning it). Here, it's like a narration of the entire scene: "I break into the safelock. That's funny, I wonder why it dialed a private number instead of 911. I wish this would go a lot faster. I could take Sally out for dinner and finally make her happy. That grizzly ****e only prefers meals in fancy restaurants when she damn well knows---"

Bla bla. You get the point. Lots of exposition in Nolan's batfilms. Which is strangely odd, as his indie flicks are almost completely devoid of that amateurish writing.

 

[sasquatchs]

^ That is my problem with Begins in a nutshell and why I keep saying it doesn't feel much like a Nolan film. The exchanges serve the screenwriter more than the characters. I suppose if the goons had only been hired earlier in the morning it'd explain things to an extent, it's all so convenient and easy though. I thought a different writer would change this aspect but it's emulating Begins still

Dumb Joker goons is fine though and the visual panache is much stronger than anything in the last film already