BvS Which Green Lantern should be used?

[Da-Scribe]

Hal is commonly portrayed as cocky and humorous, Reynold's portrayal wasn't out of character, but there's been times where he's been portrayed a lot more seriously too. When he needs to be, he's serious. He's just a wiseass sometimes, just not to the extent of Guy. John is the straight man.

Barry is kind of an everyman I'd say. Kind of similar to early Peter Parker but not exactly. I liked the way The New Frontier and Justice League War movies portrayed Barry. He's funny and lighthearted, but not the wisecracking jokester that Hal becomes when he's with Barry.

Admittedly, I'm more familiar with the serious Hal, but it almost sounds like Topher (I just really wanna see that guy as a major player in a big franchise again) would be a better fit for Hal from your descriptions. Krasinski as well. I'd think Jake Gyllenhaal would also make a great Hal.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

What about Kyle and wally? do you know how they are each one?

The common thing with all you put is a Barry/Hal then.

In short, Hal and Barry are like Han Solo and Luke Skywalker.

Wally and Kyle are like Sam Raimi's Spider-Man.

Out of the Flashes, Bart Allen is the "joker" and from the Lantern's it's Hal or Guy.

 

[DOBSON10]

These were characters created in the 40's and 50's, when it was considered making your characters anything other than a white male a bad business decision. A time when discrimination against minorities was allowed. These characters aren't white based solely on creative reasons from the artist, especially during those times.

So don't tell me diversity doesn't matter, it will always matter.

SMH. I never said diversity doesn't matter and just because I want to see the classic Justice League lineup doesn't mean I'm against diversity. I am against changing things just for the sake adding more diversity. There will be plenty of time for them to introduce characters that add diversity. But changing the members of the Justice League to add diversity is forcing it.

Again - People of all races, nationalities and genders like the characters the way they are, if people of all races and genders like them the way they are, why do they need to change it? Just add in the more diverse characters at some point, maybe even in the first Justice League movie along with the members most fans want to see.

Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal), Flash (Barry), Aquaman and Martian Manhunter are the Justice League founding members to the majority of the fanbase and the ones the majority of the fanbase want to see (which again, is a diverse group of fans who like the characters as they are). Why does it have to be diverse right off the bat? Why can't they give us the traditional lineup, which most fans want to see, and then add in the diverse characters around them or down the line? Why does it have to be right now, way does it have to be the founding members that are changed to add diversity? Those are the characters, that's the lineup, what's wrong with wanting the characters the way they are, that's the reason you are a fan in the first place, because you like the characters the way they are. You can do other things to add diversity to the cast besides changing the main lineup.

I'm not against diversity. But I want to see the real Justice League on screen, the classic lineup, the lineup the large majority of the fan base wants to see. There are several female characters they can add down the line, there are a several black characters they add down the line. I'm 100% fine with that, but the founding members should be the classic founding members, one of which is a female and one of which is a black man (when in human form), that's already more diverse than the Avengers lineup, which no one is complaining about.

I don't have a problem with adding Cyborg, John Stewart, Supergirl, Zatanna, Black Canary, Hawkgirl etc etc down the line. But for the first movie I want to see the original 7, there is nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make me a racist or a chauvinist (though I honestly couldn't care less if it makes me sound that way). Those are the characters I am a fan of and those are the characters that have made up the Justice League both before and after the era of discrimination you mentioned. I'm not in favor of changing it to add diversity. Not every little thing in this world needs to add diversity because we have progressed as a society, some things can still hold to the tradition without being racist. Not adding more diverse characters isn't racist, it's going by the source material, which is what made the characters popular enough for them to make a movie in the first place.

 

[John-An]

In short, Hal and Barry are like Han Solo and Luke Skywalker.

Wally and Kyle are like Sam Raimi's Spider-Man.

Out of the Flashes, Bart Allen is the "joker" and from the Lantern's it's Hal or Guy.

^^^ Oh thanks for the info.
Then Kyle and Wally or Hal and Barry are the way to go.
If they threw John the can put Barry or Bart (if he's grown up but seem unlikely to have him as the first flash) or if they can put Bart personality into Wally like in the JLA series.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

^^^ Oh thanks for the info.
Then Kyle and Wally or Hal and Barry are the way to go.
If they threw John the can put Barry or Bart (if he's grown up but seem unlikely to have him as the first flash) or if they can put Bart personality into Wally like in the JLA series.

What's the point of having all of Bart's attributes and not his name? It would be like having a black Hal Jordan, yeah to the public he's a black Green Lantern, and therefore must be the one from the cartoon a decade ago. But he wouldn't be, not even close.

If Bart's personality is to be used just have Bart be the first Flash and give him a redux Barry's origin.

 

[113]

SMH. I never said diversity doesn't matter and just because I want to see the classic Justice League lineup doesn't mean I'm against diversity. I am against changing things just for the sake adding more diversity. There will be plenty of time for them to introduce characters that add diversity. But changing the members of the Justice League to add diversity is forcing it.

Again - People of all races, nationalities and genders like the characters the way they are, if people of all races and genders like them the way they are, why do they need to change it? Just add in the more diverse characters at some point, maybe even in the first Justice League movie along with the members most fans want to see.

Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal), Flash (Barry), Aquaman and Martian Manhunter are the Justice League founding members to the majority of the fanbase and the ones the majority of the fanbase want to see (which again, is a diverse group of fans who like the characters as they are). Why does it have to be diverse right off the bat? Why can't they give us the traditional lineup, which most fans want to see, and then add in the diverse characters around them or down the line? Why does it have to be right now, way does it have to be the founding members that are changed to add diversity? Those are the characters, that's the lineup, what's wrong with wanting the characters the way they are, that's the reason you are a fan in the first place, because you like the characters the way they are. You can do other things to add diversity to the cast besides changing the main lineup.

I'm not against diversity. But I want to see the real Justice League on screen, the classic lineup, the lineup the large majority of the fan base wants to see. There are several female characters they can add down the line, there are a several black characters they add down the line. I'm 100% fine with that, but the founding members should be the classic founding members, one of which is a female and one of which is a black man (when in human form), that's already more diverse than the Avengers lineup, which no one is complaining about.

I don't have a problem with adding Cyborg, John Stewart, Supergirl, Zatanna, Black Canary, Hawkgirl etc etc down the line. But for the first movie I want to see the original 7, there is nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make me a racist or a chauvinist (though I honestly couldn't care less if it makes me sound that way). Those are the characters I am a fan of and those are the characters that have made up the Justice League both before and after the era of discrimination you mentioned. I'm not in favor of changing it to add diversity. Not every little thing in this world needs to add diversity because we have progressed as a society, some things can still hold to the tradition without being racist. Not adding more diverse characters isn't racist, it's going by the source material, which is what made the characters popular enough for them to make a movie in the first place.

So because YOU'RE a fan of that lineup that's what WB/DC should use? Even if the majority of hardcore fans like that lineup they should listen to them? Do you know how small of a percentage those of us who are hardcore DC fans make up? It's probably 1-2% of the moviegoing audience; everyone else couldn't give a rats ass.

I completely reject the "purist" argument; it's juvenile and inconsistent. If the so-called purists were actually purists they would be outraged that Superman can fly, outraged that they're even considering using a GL other than Alan Scott, outraged that WW most likely won't be the Justice League secretary. You want purity, then be outraged about that stuff.

 

[DOBSON10]

So because YOU'RE a fan of that lineup that's what WB/DC should use? Even if the majority of hardcore fans like that lineup they should listen to them? Do you know how small of a percentage those of us who are hardcore DC fans make up? It's probably 1-2% of the moviegoing audience; everyone else couldn't give a rats ass.

I completely reject the "purist" argument; it's juvenile and inconsistent. If the so-called purists were actually purists they would be outraged that Superman can fly, outraged that they're even considering using a GL other than Alan Scott, outraged that WW most likely won't be the Justice League secretary. You want purity, then be outraged about that stuff.

I don't see how this is hard to understand, that's who the characters are, why should they change it? You don't have to change things to add diversity. There are plenty of ways to add diversity without changing things to do it.

I doubt the general audience is going to skip the movie because most of the cast is white either, so again, why do they have to change the characters or lineup? The Avengers did great in the box office and the 5 actual Avengers were all white people, why is it such a sin to not have a diverse cast? The answer is, it's not.

I'm not a purist, I'm a fan of the characters the way they are. And your analogies are terrible by the way. It's not the same thing at all.

 

[113]

I don't see how this is hard to understand, that's who the characters are, why should they change it? You don't have to change things to add diversity. There are plenty of ways to add diversity without changing things to do it.

I doubt the general audience is going to skip the movie because most of the cast is white either, so again, why do they have to change the characters or lineup? The Avengers did great in the box office and the 5 actual Avengers were all white people, why is it such a sin to not have a diverse cast? The answer is, it's not.

I'm not a purist, I'm a fan of the characters the way they are. And your analogy about the characters having powers is terrible by the way. It's not the same thing at all.

No, it's a perfect analogy because it points to the fact that there are hundreds, nay thousands, of different interpretations of all these characters since 1938. There is no "pure form" of any of the characters, not one. They all change; and lineups change, relationships change, etc...

So again, tell me why you're not upset that Supes can fly but you are upset that John Stewart MAY be used as the main GL in Justice League movie. Better yet, let me ask you this - were you upset that Zod was used as the main villain in MoS? Because he wasn't introduced until 1961. For a rebooted Supes movie shouldn't they have used his first villain, Ultra-Humanite? Because, you know, he's the original supervillain and everything original is sacred and can't be touched.

 

[Beige Lantern]

I don't think it matters what character could do that. Because no character should have to do that.

Oh, I disagree. And some of the best JLA writing has been just that scenario: Superman and Batman are arguing about some sort of theoretical right or wrong or just a different strategic philosophy and Wonder Woman is like "Will you two put your ***** back in your pants and help me out with these giant robots?"

 

[Beige Lantern]

The argument for sticking with the original Green Lantern is he's a fundamentally more developed character with a longer backstory. Barry doesn't even have that going for him. Barry Allen is boring.

Let's apply the Harry S. Plinkett test: Describe this character without mentioning their job, their costume or what they look like. Describe this character as if you're doing so to a person who has never heard of them.

Wally West... we can go on for days.

Barry Allen....

...

...

He died to save the entire multiverse. That was cool.

Oh wait, but then he didn't.

 

[DOBSON10]

No, it's a perfect analogy because it points to the fact that there are hundreds, nay thousands, of different interpretations of all these characters since 1938. There is no "pure form" of any of the characters, not one. They all change; and lineups change, relationships change, etc...

So again, tell me why you're not upset that Supes can fly but you are upset that John Stewart MAY be used as the main GL in Justice League movie. Better yet, let me ask you this - were you upset that Zod was used as the main villain in MoS? Because he wasn't introduced until 1961. For a rebooted Supes movie shouldn't they have used his first villain, Ultra-Humanite? Because, you know, he's the original supervillain and everything original is sacred and can't be touched.

Because I'm not a purist and your analogies still suck. I really don't need to go any further than that. The characters are written with superpowers, they are superheros, why would I be upset that they have powers? That's not the same thing at all and it's a poor analogy.

I never said that everything had to be original or that everything original is sacred. I have no problem with them adding Cyborg to replace Manhunter for example (I actually hate MM and prefer Cyborg). You're being too literal. I want to see the most often used, most popular lineup of the Justice League because that's the lineup I like the most. Actually, I'm misspeaking, because I like replacing Manhunter, so I'm obviously not a purist, what I really want is the other 6 (with Hal/Barry being Flash/Lantern) And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

There is also absolutely nothing wrong with anything I said, because I'm not saying there should never be another black character used or another female character used, you know, since there is already one of each, which is more diverse than the extremely popular Avengers lineup. I said that purposely adding more diverse characters to the lineup just for the sake of adding diversity is not something I agree with, there is also nothing wrong with me saying that either. Why do they have to add those characters right now? They can add them down the line and there you go, there is the diversity you're in such a rush to shove down everyone's throats just for the sake of being more diverse. I'm not uncompromising, I already said I'd be OK with those characters being used in the first movie or down the line, I just want to see most of the original lineup be the main lineup. For example, what's wrong with having the classic lineup and also having an extra female or black character play a supporting role? That gives you diversity and also lets fans see the most popular lineup at the same time. There is nothing wrong with that.

Stop pretending like I said there should never be another female or black character involved. Stop pretending that I am completely against diversity.

 

[Beige Lantern]

The main draw to having John in this film wouldn't be John Stewart himself, but the great [] actor they could cast in the role.

Makes me think of Iron Man.

 

[113]

Because I'm not a purist and your analogies still suck. I really don't need to go any further than that. The characters are written with superpowers, they are superheros, why would I be upset that they have powers? That's not the same thing at all and it's a poor analogy.

I never said that everything had to be original or that everything original is sacred. I have no problem with them adding Cyborg to replace Manhunter for example (I actually hate MM but I'd still prefer the original 7). You're being too literal. I want to see the most often used, most popular lineup of the Justice League because that's the lineup I like the most. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

There is also absolutely nothing wrong with anything I said, because I'm not saying there should never be another black character used or another female character used, you know, since there is already one of each, which is more diverse than the extremely popular Avengers lineup. I said that purposely adding more diverse characters to the lineup just for the sake of adding diversity is not something I agree with, there is also nothing wrong with me saying that either. Why do they have to add those characters right now? They can add them down the line and there you go, there is the diversity you're in such a rush to shove down everyone's throats just for the sake of being more diverse. I'm not uncompromising, I already said I'd be OK with those characters being used in the first movie or down the line, I just want to see the original 7 be the main lineup. For example, what's wrong with having the classic lineup and also having an extra female or black character play a supporting role? That gives you diversity and also lets fans see the most popular lineup at the same time. There is nothing wrong with that.

Stop pretending like I said there should never be another female or black character involved. Stop pretending that I am completely against diversity.

...And other people like other lineups. Just don't start throwing around the circular logic of "they should use the original lineup because it's the original lineup." That is a purists' argument and I've already demonstrated how ridiculous purists' arguments are in general.

 

[DOBSON10]

...And other people like other lineups. Just don't start throwing around the circular logic of "they should use the original lineup because it's the original lineup." That is a purists arguments and I've already demonstrated how ridiculous purists arguments are in general.

You've demonstrated how you think the purists argument is ridiculous, but your analogies were awful and didn't prove anything. Also, re-read my post, because I actually edited it while you were replying, I'm not a purist or against diversity and I never said they should strictly use the original lineup just because it's the original lineup. I said they shouldn't force in more diverse characters just to make the cast more diverse.

 

[113]

You've demonstrated how you think the purists argument is ridiculous, but your analogies were awful and didn't prove anything. Also, re-read my post, because I actually edited it while you were replying, I'm not a purist or against diversity and I never said they should strictly use the original lineup just because it's the original lineup. I said they shouldn't force in more diverse characters just to make the cast more diverse.

This is what you fail to understand. You think of diversity purely in racial and gender terms, when diversity actually emcompasses much more than that. When there are multiple interpretations of a character, that's diversity (Grant Morrison's interpretation of Supes in All-Star isn't the same as his interpretation of Supes in Action Comics) - that is a form of diversity.

So when I talk about there being thousands of interpretations of all these characters, and lineups that's me showing you that diversity for diversity's sake has already taken place in the comics, and will forever take place. Your hangup is that you seem to only take issue with it for racial and gender diversity on the main JL lineup.

And you also seem to ignore all the reason's people who like John Stewart have given for his appearance in the lineup outside of adding racial diversity. That's part of it but it isn't the only reason people like the character; but you conveniently ignore all the other reasons to fit your agenda.

 

[DOBSON10]

This is what you fail to understand. You think of diversity purely in racial and gender terms, when diversity actually emcompasses much more than that. When there are multiple interpretations of a character, that's diversity (Grant Morrison's interpretation of Supes in All-Star isn't the same as his interpretation of Supes in Action Comics) - that is a form of diversity.

So when I talk about there being thousands of interpretations of all these characters, and lineups that's me showing you that diversity for diversity's sake has already taken place in the comics, and will forever take place. Your hangup is that you seem to only take issue with it for racial and gender diversity on the main JL lineup.

And you also seem to ignore all the reason's people who like John Stewart have given for his appearance in the lineup outside of adding racial diversity. That's part of it but it isn't the only reason people like the character; but you conveniently ignore all the other reasons to fit your agenda.

Actually you are dead wrong once again and once again putting words in my mouth. In truth, I think that the characters are already diverse, regardless of race or gender. For example, each character has their own diverse personality, backstory, power set, costumes, etc. etc. Superman and Batman are both white, but they are already diverse characters in comparison to each other because they different people, with different personalities and different motivations. Just like Green Lantern is different from them and different from Wonder Woman. They are already diverse in the sense that they are all very different characters, with different backgrounds and personalities.

Superman and Martian Manhunter are aliens, Wonder Woman is an Amazon, Aquaman is an Atlantean etc. What's more diverse than an alien? Then you add in the diversity of the varying interpretations of the characters over the years and that makes the characters more complex and diverse, not any single one version but a combination of all the versions of each character. Like Heath Ledger's Joker, which is a combination of various versions of the character all rolled into one to create a more diverse, complex and intriguing character.

The reason I am focusing on gender and race so much, is because the people that are complaining are focusing on the gender and race of the characters and I was simply replying in kind to their complaints. I didn't bring it up, I just replied. The people who complain about diversity are the ones that brought up race and gender, they are the ones that are focusing entirely on race and gender. Every time diversity is brought up, it is because people want to see a minority character replace a white character or a female replace a male to add more diversity. I simply said that I don't think they should force in characters to add to the diversity of the cast. I don't think they should replace a white character or a male character to add a minority character or a female character. I think they should ADD more diverse characters, not force them in by replacing existing characters to add diversity. You're putting that on me, when it's the people that want a more diverse cast that are the ones focusing on race and gender.

As for John Stewart in particular, I'm not against seeing him at some point. I don't like the character, don't find him interesting regardless of what race he is but I'm not against him being included at some point. I just prefer Hal Jordan, not because he is white, but because he is far more interesting, has a better and more established backstory and a more interesting personality. It's just a flat out better character to me, that's why I want Hal Jordan to be the main Green Lantern. But I have no problem with John Stewart being his sidekick ala Robin to Batman down the road. Because that's what he is to me, Hal's sidekick/fellow Green Lantern.

 

[Hush]

Why are there only 2 poll options? Are Kyle and Guy non existent for some reason?

 

[113]

Actually you are dead wrong once again and once again putting words in my mouth. In truth, I think that the characters are already diverse, regardless of race or gender. For example, each character has their own diverse personality, backstory, power set, costumes, etc. etc. Superman and Batman are both white, but they are already diverse characters in comparison to each other because they different people, with different personalities and different motivations. Just like Green Lantern is different from them and different from Wonder Woman. They are already diverse in the sense that they are all very different characters, with different backgrounds and personalities.

Superman and Martian Manhunter are aliens, Wonder Woman is an Amazon, Aquaman is an Atlantean etc. What's more diverse than an alien? Then you add in the diversity of the varying interpretations of the characters over the years and that makes the characters more complex and diverse, not any single one version but a combination of all the versions of each character. Like Heath Ledger's Joker, which is a combination of various versions of the character all rolled into one to create a more diverse, complex and intriguing character.

The reason I am focusing on gender and race so much, is because the people that are complaining are focusing on the gender and race of the characters and I was simply replying in kind to their complaints. I didn't bring it up, I just replied. The people who complain about diversity are the ones that brought up race and gender, they are the ones that are focusing entirely on race and gender. Every time diversity is brought up, it is because people want to see a minority character replace a white character or a female replace a male to add more diversity. I simply said that I don't think they should force in characters to add to the diversity of the cast. I don't think they should replace a white character or a male character to add a minority character or a female character. I think they should ADD more diverse characters, not force them in by replacing existing characters to add diversity. You're putting that on me, when it's the people that want a more diverse cast that are the ones focusing on race and gender.

As for John Stewart in particular, I'm not against seeing him at some point. I don't like the character, don't find him interesting regardless of what race he is but I'm not against him being included at some point. I just prefer Hal Jordan, not because he is white, but because he is far more interesting, has a better and more established backstory and a more interesting personality. It's just a flat out better character to me, that's why I want Hal Jordan to be the main Green Lantern. But I have no problem with John Stewart being his sidekick ala Robin to Batman down the road. Because that's what he is to me, Hal's sidekick/fellow Green Lantern.

And many of us think John Stewart is the better, more interesting, character with a more relatable personality. THAT'S why we want him on the team over Hal. Racial diversity is part of the appeal but it's not everything. Which is what we've been saying since the start, but YOU turned it into "they ONLY want John because they want racial diversity." No, that's a straw-man as no one ever said that. Racial diversity is one aspect of what he brings to the table that we like; it's not everything however.

So stop with this agenda of painting everyone who prefers John Stewart as only preferring the character because he's black; or only wanting the character on the team because he adds racial diversity. No one ever said that.

 

[Rorschach2012]

And many of us think John Stewart is the better, more interesting, character with a more relatable personality. THAT'S why we want him on the team over Hal. Racial diversity is part of the appeal but it's not everything. Which is what we've been saying since the start, but YOU turned it into "they ONLY want John because they want racial diversity." No, that's a straw-man as no one ever said that. Racial diversity is one aspect of what he brings to the table that we like; it's not everything however.

So stop with this agenda of painting everyone who prefers John Stewart as only preferring the character because he's black; or only wanting the character on the team because he adds racial diversity. No one ever said that.

It probably just seems that way to some people because Hal has accomplished so much more than John Stewart aside from his appearance in Justice League TAS. To many people, me included, it just seems like Hal is clearly the better character once you step outside the JL animated series.
the main reason people like John Stewart though is because he kicked ass on JL TAS, not because he's black..

 

[Rorschach2012]

Why are there only 2 poll options? Are Kyle and Guy non existent for some reason?

I mean pretty much, I'd love for both of them to show up in the movie universe at some point (GL corps movie!), but the chances of either of them being used in BvS or Justice League are very slim...

 

[DOBSON10]

And many of us think John Stewart is the better, more interesting, character with a more relatable personality. THAT'S why we want him on the team over Hal. Racial diversity is part of the appeal but it's not everything. Which is what we've been saying since the start, but YOU turned it into "they ONLY want John because they want racial diversity." No, that's a straw-man as no one ever said that. Racial diversity is one aspect of what he brings to the table that we like; it's not everything however.

So stop with this agenda of painting everyone who prefers John Stewart as only preferring the character because he's black; or only wanting the character on the team because he adds racial diversity. No one ever said that.

I never said that the only reason why people want John Stewart over Hal Jordan is because of his race. What I was commenting on was people saying that they should replace white characters with black characters or female characters replacing male characters to add diversity. Those people specifically said that they should replace characters for the sole purpose of adding a different race or gender to the cast to add diversity. I said I don't agree with that. I actually never mentioned John Stewart at all in my first comment about diversity in this thread. I understand your confusion because of the thread title and the question of Hal Vs. John, but that is not what I said at all.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I just hope we get Green Lantern at all...

Would love to see what Snyder can do with the constructs.

 

[113]

I just hope we get Green Lantern at all...

Would love to see what Snyder can do with the constructs.

Indeed that's another key reason for Stewart. Because he's an architect he makes the most intricate constructs. Him and Kyle have the best constructs out of all of them.

And like you said, Snyder is the guy to make GL's constructs look awesome.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Indeed that's another key reason for Stewart. Because he's an architect he makes the most intricate constructs. Him and Kyle have the best constructs out of all of them.

And like you said, Snyder is the guy to make GL's constructs look awesome.

That can't be a key reason to use Stewart in the movies...

I think the choice should be made based on what character could potentially best carry a franchise .

 

[113]

That can't be a key reason to use Stewart in the movies...

I think the choice should be made based on what character could potentially best carry a franchise .

I said that's another key reason to use Stewart. In addition to all the others I've laid out time and time again in this thread. It's one that I haven't discussed much but it's one of those cool "little" things that is an advantage for Stewart over Hal.

I want to be entertained at the movies by great visuals too, Stewart brings the better constructs. Is it the most important thing? Of course not, it's just another advantage.