Who Can Lift Mjolnir By Their Own Power?

[thorandsurfer]

TOAA (the one the Living Tribunal answers to) Not sure who this guy is
Living Tribunal Yes
Silver Surfer Should be able
Thanos With the infinity gaulen yes
Phoenix I dont think so
Galactus yes
The most powerful celestial yes
War Hulk no
WWH no
Cosmic Spiderman If you mean captain universe Spidy maybe
Thing No
Colossus No
Darkseid Not in my opinion
pre-crisis Superman I would say yes

Thanks for your reply. All I know about the TOAA is that he's supposed to be some powerful alien or God who has a connection with the Living Tribunal. It seems like he's the Living Tribunal's leader or something.

With what everybody has said about the celestials who I thought were just a weak alien race, it seems that since they could lift thors hammer, war hulk should be able to also since he was said to have celestial power backing him up. If the celestial power allowed him to stop citorak and juggernaut, then it probably could allow hulk to lift mjolnir.

I pretty much agree with all your other answers except for the phoenix and pre-crisi superman. Maybe somebody else here can talk about this.

 

[Alex Summers]

Thanks for your reply. All I know about the TOAA is that he's supposed to be some powerful alien or God who has a connection with the Living Tribunal. It seems like he's the Living Tribunal's leader or something.

With what everybody has said about the celestials who I thought were just a weak alien race, it seems that since they could lift thors hammer, war hulk should be able to also since he was said to have celestial power backing him up. If the celestial power allowed him to stop citorak and juggernaut, then it probably could allow hulk to lift mjolnir.

I pretty much agree with all your other answers except for the phoenix and pre-crisi superman. Maybe somebody else here can talk about this.[/QUOTE

How long have you been reading comics for? Based on your posts I would say not very long.

And being able to lift Mjolnir has nothing to do with strength or power.

 

[thorandsurfer]

Thanks for your reply. All I know about the TOAA is that he's supposed to be some powerful alien or God who has a connection with the Living Tribunal. It seems like he's the Living Tribunal's leader or something.

With what everybody has said about the celestials who I thought were just a weak alien race, it seems that since they could lift thors hammer, war hulk should be able to also since he was said to have celestial power backing him up. If the celestial power allowed him to stop citorak and juggernaut, then it probably could allow hulk to lift mjolnir.

I pretty much agree with all your other answers except for the phoenix and pre-crisi superman. Maybe somebody else here can talk about this.[/QUOTE

How long have you been reading comics for? Based on your posts I would say not very long.

And being able to lift Mjolnir has nothing to do with strength or power.

According to others, it does!

Maybe you're the one that needs to be reading more comics!

 

[Harlekin]

The TOAA=God. Not a god. THE God.

And again, nobody but him, the Tribunal or a person with the Infinity Gauntlet can lift the hammer if unworthy. Just because a Celestial is more powerful than Odin does not mean he can break the spell upon Mjolnir. Also, War Hulk was backed by Apocalypse's tech, which is partially Celestial tech but not completely.

Again though, strength means nothing. It's about breaking the enchantment, and nobody's been shown capable of that but Odin. Since you wouldn't have Odin without the TOAA, he/she/it can as well. The Tribunal is the TOAA's agent in the universe, and thus can do so too. The Infinity Gauntlet gives complete control over reality, and thus allows one to remove the enchantment, not necessarily to break it.

 

[thorandsurfer]

The TOAA=God. Not a god. THE God.

And again, nobody but him, the Tribunal or a person with the Infinity Gauntlet can lift the hammer if unworthy. Just because a Celestial is more powerful than Odin does not mean he can break the spell upon Mjolnir. Also, War Hulk was backed by Apocalypse's tech, which is partially Celestial tech but not completely.

Again though, strength means nothing. It's about breaking the enchantment, and nobody's been shown capable of that but Odin. Since you wouldn't have Odin without the TOAA, he/she/it can as well. The Tribunal is the TOAA's agent in the universe, and thus can do so too. The Infinity Gauntlet gives complete control over reality, and thus allows one to remove the enchantment, not necessarily to break it.

I only said a celestial can because somebody else did above and nobody denied it. Read a page or two back. Also, the same person said phoenix can.


Okay, now I know the TOAA is God of Marvel. Thanks. Does that mean the TOAA is more powerful than all no matter who it is?

 

[Harlekin]

There's something to be said for a Celestial warping reality in such a manner that the enchantment is not upon the hammer, but I see no reason why they should be able to break it. The Phoenix certainly can't lift Mjolnir though.

 

[thorandsurfer]

Phoenix is also beyond Odin in power and could override the enchantment as could all the Celestials.

Here is the post on the celestials and phoenix.

 

[Harlekin]

I've seen it. A case can be made for the Celestials. The White Phoenix, as being able to destroy and create realities should be able to get rid of the enchantment as well, but your average star-eating Phoenix? No.

 

[thorandsurfer]

I've seen it. A case can be made for the Celestials. The White Phoenix, as being able to destroy and create realities should be able to get rid of the enchantment as well, but your average star-eating Phoenix? No.

Thanks for your help. Let's me know a bit more about these characters. I only know most of them through the internet, not comics that I own. One final question if you don't mine, I can't think of any others at the moment.

With all the spells that Dr. Strange has, could he come up with a spell that can beat the odin spell so that he can lift the hammer?

 

[PhotoJones]

Out of these characters, who, by their own power (outside of being worthy to lift it) could lift mjolnir. And everybody is at their greatest power levels so no excuses.


TOAA (the one the Living Tribunal answers to)
Living Tribunal
Silver Surfer
Thanos
Phoenix
Galactus
The most powerful celestial
War Hulk
WWH
Cosmic Spiderman
Thing
Colossus
Darkseid
pre-crisis Superman

U guys all missed my first post. I'm including all their 'POWERS,' not just strength. So, if as said above, the Living Tribunal can just ignore Odin and lift it, then that counts. But I don't think the living Tribunal can just ignore Odin, Odin wouldn't allow that in his spell.

I thought Odin was an almighty God?

I think it's in my first post. Include all powers. It's been said the Living Tribunal can because Odins power has no effect on the living Tribunal while the Living Tribunal power can effect Odin. Whio else on my list is at that level?

Thanks for your reply. All I know about the TOAA is that he's supposed to be some powerful alien or God who has a connection with the Living Tribunal. It seems like he's the Living Tribunal's leader or something.

With what everybody has said about the celestials who I thought were just a weak alien race, it seems that since they could lift thors hammer, war hulk should be able to also since he was said to have celestial power backing him up. If the celestial power allowed him to stop citorak and juggernaut, then it probably could allow hulk to lift mjolnir.

I pretty much agree with all your other answers except for the phoenix and pre-crisi superman. Maybe somebody else here can talk about this.

According to others, it does!

Maybe you're the one that needs to be reading more comics!

I only said a celestial can because somebody else did above and nobody denied it. Read a page or two back. Also, the same person said phoenix can.


Okay, now I know the TOAA is God of Marvel. Thanks. Does that mean the TOAA is more powerful than all no matter who it is?

Thanks for your help. Let's me know a bit more about these characters. I only know most of them through the internet, not comics that I own. One final question if you don't mine, I can't think of any others at the moment.

With all the spells that Dr. Strange has, could he come up with a spell that can beat the odin spell so that he can lift the hammer?

http://www.wikipedia.org/

 

[thorandsurfer]

http://www.wikipedia.org/

haha! you must have given me the wrung link, theres nothing bout superheros here.

 

[PhotoJones]

Oh. My. God.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Thanks for your reply. All I know about the TOAA is that he's supposed to be some powerful alien or God who has a connection with the Living Tribunal. It seems like he's the Living Tribunal's leader or something.

With what everybody has said about the celestials who I thought were just a weak alien race, it seems that since they could lift thors hammer, war hulk should be able to also since he was said to have celestial power backing him up. If the celestial power allowed him to stop citorak and juggernaut, then it probably could allow hulk to lift mjolnir.

I pretty much agree with all your other answers except for the phoenix and pre-crisi superman. Maybe somebody else here can talk about this.

I dont know what gave you the idea that the Celestial's were weak but they are among the most powerful guy's in the MU.Not even the guys that came from the Cosmic Cube are as strong.Now I havent heard that WWHulk as any of their power backing him but I have been out of the loop for about 6 months now so I could be wrong.

As for why guys like the Hulk and Phoenix may not be able to lift Mjolnir is not because it to heavy nor does it have to do with how strong they are....Hulk is stronger then Thor.To some the hammer is as light as a fether.There is a enchantment on Mjolnir that prevents any living being from lifting the hammer from the ground unless he or she is deemed worthy by Odin.By Asgardein standerd's. But, the hammer can be lifted by machines or robots that do not have a life of their owen. On the side of the hammer are the word's, "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor".
Hulk is not worthy....althou there was a bock back in the day [70's or 80's] that had Hulk lifting it over his head for a sec but he fell over and passed out in the same sec.But you must also remember that this was the child like Hulk from then and his actions werent all that bad to begin with.And it may not be in contnity any more.
For Phoenix I would say she's not worthy ether because she once destroyed an entyer solor sytem and killed billions in it just because she needed to feed.The reason I said I dont know is because since I've been out of the loop I dont know if she has been forgiven by some super god or anything like that.

Pre-crissis Superman was not only the most powerful version of the character but also the most generus ,kindharted ,dependable and honorable of all the supermans that have come since.He even got a chance to meat the one that the Specter serves..... God.And I mean DC's version of the God.The way I see it if you have a chance to meat and talk to God your worthy of anything....here are some pic's of the issue in question.



http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-00.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-01.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-02.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-03.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-04.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-05.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-06.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-07.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-08.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-09.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-10.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-11.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-12.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-13.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-14.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-15.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-16.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bm...=DCCP29-17.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v39/bmovie_buff/?action=view&current=DCCP29-17.jpg

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The TOAA=God. Not a god. THE God.

And again, nobody but him, the Tribunal or a person with the Infinity Gauntlet can lift the hammer if unworthy. Just because a Celestial is more powerful than Odin does not mean he can break the spell upon Mjolnir. Also, War Hulk was backed by Apocalypse's tech, which is partially Celestial tech but not completely.

Again though, strength means nothing. It's about breaking the enchantment, and nobody's been shown capable of that but Odin. Since you wouldn't have Odin without the TOAA, he/she/it can as well. The Tribunal is the TOAA's agent in the universe, and thus can do so too. The Infinity Gauntlet gives complete control over reality, and thus allows one to remove the enchantment, not necessarily to break it.

The Tribunal and The Infinity Gauntlet have been knowen to have the abilaty to negate majics by altering reality so I would assume its posible for them.

 

[Kitsune]

I have a question, by "their own power" do you mean "Who is Worthy" or "Who is powerful enough to bypass or ignore Odin's enchantments?"

 

[Dan_Slott]

Hi.

I've only read through the first 4 pages of this thread so this MIGHT be covering ground that's already been covered but-- here's what I know...

In current continuity, these guys have lifted it...

Various Thors (Donald Blake, Eric Masterson/Thunderstrike, Dargo Ktor, Jake Olson, etc.)

Odin
(and, technically, I THINK the Dwarf that helped Odin make the hammer wielded it-- but BEFORE Odin placed the enchantment on it. But that's just my recollection. Odin, on the other hand, can lift the darn thing WHENEVER he wants).
Beta-Ray Bill
Captain America (when he was "The Captain")
Thanos (when he was wearing the Infinity Gauntlet)

and...

Awesome Andy (but only when he's a "machine", once he gained sentience, he could no longer hod it aloft)...
(Cheap Plug: To see that story, pick up the recently released SHE-HULK: WORLD WITHOUT A HULK TPB, which JUST came out last week! Or...
Go to Marvel.Com's Digital Comics area and read SHE-HULK Vol.2 #14 for FREE!)

In possible futures...
Defrosted Captain America held it and used it for some time in 2099
Miguel O'Hara (Spider-Man 2099)
Dargo Ktor
Thor's son, Magni
(Was there someone from the Valentino-written Guardians of the Galaxy? I'm not sure.)

In other realities...
Jane Foster (in an issue of What If?)
Wonder Woman
Superman (was able to lift in some issues of JLA/Avengers but NOT at the end).

Guys who've tried and couldn't lift it...
Loki
Hulk
Thing
Mr. Hyde (and TOO many Thor villains to mention)
Maestro
Spider-Man (pretty sure there's a Marvel Team-Up where Spidey tries and can't budge it)
The Beast (in an issue of Avengers)
Hyperion (the Superman counterpart from the Squadron Supreme world)

And that's just off the top of my head...

 

[KangConquers]

Kang holds it in Avengers Reborn in the Heroes reborn series. He uses some anti-gravity thing a ma-bob or the other.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Kang holds it in Avengers Reborn in the Heroes reborn series. He uses some anti-gravity thing a ma-bob or the other.

The heroes reborn Thor wasnt really Thor so that wasnt the real hammer so it doesnt count..The real Thor showed up at the end of the serries.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Hi.

I've only read through the first 4 pages of this thread so this MIGHT be covering ground that's already been covered but-- here's what I know...

In current continuity, these guys have lifted it...

Various Thors (Donald Blake, Eric Masterson/Thunderstrike, Dargo Ktor, Jake Olson, etc.)

Odin
(and, technically, I THINK the Dwarf that helped Odin make the hammer wielded it-- but BEFORE Odin placed the enchantment on it. But that's just my recollection. Odin, on the other hand, can lift the darn thing WHENEVER he wants).
Beta-Ray Bill
Captain America (when he was "The Captain")
Thanos (when he was wearing the Infinity Gauntlet)

and...

Awesome Andy (but only when he's a "machine", once he gained sentience, he could no longer hod it aloft)...
(Cheap Plug: To see that story, pick up the recently released SHE-HULK: WORLD WITHOUT A HULK TPB, which JUST came out last week! Or...
Go to Marvel.Com's Digital Comics area and read SHE-HULK Vol.2 #14 for FREE!)

In possible futures...
Defrosted Captain America held it and used it for some time in 2099
Miguel O'Hara (Spider-Man 2099)
Dargo Ktor
Thor's son, Magni
(Was there someone from the Valentino-written Guardians of the Galaxy? I'm not sure.)

In other realities...
Jane Foster (in an issue of What If?)
Wonder Woman
Superman (was able to lift in some issues of JLA/Avengers but NOT at the end).

Guys who've tried and couldn't lift it...
Loki
Hulk
Thing
Mr. Hyde (and TOO many Thor villains to mention)
Maestro
Spider-Man (pretty sure there's a Marvel Team-Up where Spidey tries and can't budge it)
The Beast (in an issue of Avengers)
Hyperion (the Superman counterpart from the Squadron Supreme world)

And that's just off the top of my head...

Woden, Thor's son in the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline, could lift it.

Tiwaz, Thor's grandfather, also lifted it. I wondered for a while if it was a lineage thing, but then it occurred to me that everyone in Thor's family line is a super-badass warrior.

Superman lifted it in JLA/Avengers through special dispensation, I believe. I don't have the comic in front of me, but I'm pretty sure he was only able to lift it because either Thor or Odin gave him specific permission to, realizing that he'd do more damage with it and Cap's shield than Thor would.

Just out of curiosity, Dan, since you've basically been inside the Thing's head as one of his writers, have you ever given any thought to why he can't lift Mjolnir? He's always seemed to have just the qualifications Mjolnir requires--scrappy, courageous, noble--but he couldn't lift it in JMS' FF arc. I found that kind of weird.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Woden, Thor's son in the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline, could lift it.

Tiwaz, Thor's grandfather, also lifted it. I wondered for a while if it was a lineage thing, but then it occurred to me that everyone in Thor's family line is a super-badass warrior.

Superman lifted it in JLA/Avengers through special dispensation, I believe. I don't have the comic in front of me, but I'm pretty sure he was only able to lift it because either Thor or Odin gave him specific permission to, realizing that he'd do more damage with it and Cap's shield than Thor would.

Just out of curiosity, Dan, since you've basically been inside the Thing's head as one of his writers, have you ever given any thought to why he can't lift Mjolnir? He's always seemed to have just the qualifications Mjolnir requires--scrappy, courageous, noble--but he couldn't lift it in JMS' FF arc. I found that kind of weird.

I know you werent asking me but I have offten wondered about this and have only come to one conclusion....I think its his "selfloathing" and I know that this issue has disapated over the years and he has growen confertable with his Thing form....but every time he has been made normal and then again made stucked in Thing form he seems a little depresed with the issue.So I would say that deep down he still hates his rock form and that self hattered is what keeps him from lifting the hammer.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I could see that. I figured it was more because Ben doesn't really love to fight. If he had his way, he would lay down his rock form, finally allow Reed to cure him, and retire. It's only because he realizes that people will always need protecting that he steps up and shoulders the burden of protecting them.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

It was the only thing I could come up with to explane it after 32 years or readding the FFt:

 

[Silicon Surfer]

His rocky Thing form is a creation of his self loathing. His own subconscious mind created that form in the first place just as with the other members of the FF.

 

[Harlekin]

Not anymore. It's Reed Richards' fault now. When he recreated the universe in JMS' recent short run on the title, his unconscious perceptions also determined the effects the cosmic rays would have on the team. He thought of Ben Grimm as, well, a rock.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

His rocky Thing form is a creation of his self loathing. His own subconscious mind created that form in the first place just as with the other members of the FF.

Thats a psychological point of view but one with some merrit.And it would suport me theroy.I know it was once said in their histories but I thought it was retconed.