Who Can Lift Mjolnir By Their Own Power?

[Silicon Surfer]

The influence of their subconscious minds was referred to in the early FF issues but as far as I know not really explained. In an issue of What If? they explored the issue more thoroughly by showing alternate universes that diverged from 616 at the point of the FF's creation. In these universes different qualities influenced them at the critical point and the FF members gained different powers. In one Ben gained wings and was able to fly. This was of course due to his love of flying being the dominant psychological state during the FF's space flight.

 

[thorandsurfer]

I have a question, by "their own power" do you mean "Who is Worthy" or "Who is powerful enough to bypass or ignore Odin's enchantments?"

Yes, 'who is powerful enough to bypass or ignore Odin's enchantments.'

 

[fifthfiend]

Not anymore. It's Reed Richards' fault now. When he recreated the universe in JMS' recent short run on the title, his unconscious perceptions also determined the effects the cosmic rays would have on the team. He thought of Ben Grimm as, well, a rock.

You know, some of JMS's comics are really really good? And then some of them are just mind-bogglingly ****ing stupid.

 

[Dan_Slott]

Just out of curiosity, Dan, since you've basically been inside the Thing's head as one of his writers, have you ever given any thought to why he can't lift Mjolnir? He's always seemed to have just the qualifications Mjolnir requires--scrappy, courageous, noble--but he couldn't lift it in JMS' FF arc. I found that kind of weird.

Hi.
It's NOT that I think Ben Grimm SHOULDN'T be able to lift it, it's that I think ONLY Thor should be able to lift it. It takes a special, noble, warrior spirit, someone with that special "Thorocity" if you will, to heft that mallet.

Personally? I think the list of people who CAN lift it is just too darn large as it is. To me, the only reason the Awesome Andy story works is because at the moment when Awesome Andy CAN lift it, he's a machine. He's no different from a winch, a crane, or a flatbed truck (and we have seen mechanical devices lift Mjolnir). It's at the moment when Andy is NOT a machine, when he's a sentient being with a soul-- that's when he can no longer keep it aloft.

I was at a Marvel meeting where a writer was unfolding the future events of one of their stories. They were doing a great job, everyone was enthralled, and then they reached a point in their story where they said, "And then (name of one of his secondary characters) picks up Thor's hammer!" The writer paused for dramatic effect.

And, after a beat, upcoming Thor-writer, JMS, said (and without any malice or meanspiritedness-- just a plain this-is-the-way-it-is kind of tone) "No, he doesn't."

And that was it. The other writer's story still happened. It was still unbelievably cool. But it just didn't have that story beat in it.

As a Thor fan, I appreciate that. You gotta keep that list down. Every time someone ELSE lifts up that hammer, Thor becomes a little less special. And you gotta watch out for that. (With the possible exception of Future Thors and Thor's descendants. To me, Future Thors work in that they have Thor's spirit-- a Once-And-Future-King-kind of scenario or, if you want to get all geeky about it, like Doctor Who regenerations. And with descendants, then it's a legacy thing like The Phantom-- and that works too.)

So, to answer your question, I don't think Ben could-or-should be able to lift it. Conversely, I don't think Thor could keep down ten pounds of Yancy Street knishes. So it all evens out. Each hero must be true to their own selves.

 

[lowly marvelite]

Inspidred by a Green Lantern thread in DC,

Thor's Hammer, Mjollnir, can be picked up as long as they are worthy:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

Here is the first two:

Superman

Wonder Woman

Post any you can find and
I'll be looking too, and post when I can.

Absolute blasphemy!! DC characters with Thor's hammer? I think I'm going to be ill....

 

[the_hood]

yeah, blasphemy!!

----
off-topic:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR_9Rx_KWvs

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oh sorry to bother you guys..

 

[Venomfan]

why do people think Superman isnt worthy of lifting it? he seems more worthy than Thor to me lol

wait according to the credentials needed to lift the hammer others have posted or came up with..... Jesus can't lift the hammer

 

[Kitsune]

You know, some of JMS's comics are really really good? And then some of them are just mind-bogglingly ****ing stupid.

Spider-Man teams up with Loki=Good

Green Goober screws Gwen=Bad


Just to help clarify.

 

[Kitsune]

Hi.
It's NOT that I think Ben Grimm SHOULDN'T be able to lift it, it's that I think ONLY Thor should be able to lift it. It takes a special, noble, warrior spirit, someone with that special "Thorocity" if you will, to heft that mallet.

Personally? I think the list of people who CAN lift it is just too darn large as it is. To me, the only reason the Awesome Andy story works is because at the moment when Awesome Andy CAN lift it, he's a machine. He's no different from a winch, a crane, or a flatbed truck (and we have seen mechanical devices lift Mjolnir). It's at the moment when Andy is NOT a machine, when he's a sentient being with a soul-- that's when he can no longer keep it aloft.

I was at a Marvel meeting where a writer was unfolding the future events of one of their stories. They were doing a great job, everyone was enthralled, and then they reached a point in their story where they said, "And then (name of one of his secondary characters) picks up Thor's hammer!" The writer paused for dramatic effect.

And, after a beat, upcoming Thor-writer, JMS, said (and without any malice or meanspiritedness-- just a plain this-is-the-way-it-is kind of tone) "No, he doesn't."

And that was it. The other writer's story still happened. It was still unbelievably cool. But it just didn't have that story beat in it.

As a Thor fan, I appreciate that. You gotta keep that list down. Every time someone ELSE lifts up that hammer, Thor becomes a little less special. And you gotta watch out for that. (With the possible exception of Future Thors and Thor's descendants. To me, Future Thors work in that they have Thor's spirit-- a Once-And-Future-King-kind of scenario or, if you want to get all geeky about it, like Doctor Who regenerations. And with descendants, then it's a legacy thing like The Phantom-- and that works too.)

So, to answer your question, I don't think Ben could-or-should be able to lift it. Conversely, I don't think Thor could keep down ten pounds of Yancy Street knishes. So it all evens out. Each hero must be true to their own selves.

This is quite true. I'd also like to point out that "worthiness" would be based on Odin's idea of worthiness not necessarily the readers. For example, I don't think their is anyone in the Marvel Universe more worthy Than Peter Parker, but I don't think the Hammer would consider him as such. Captain America works because he's essentially a battle hardened veteran and Beta Ray Bill works as well but... well lets just say if too many people can pull the sword out of the stone, It becomes a party game.

 

[Harlekin]

why do people think Superman isnt worthy of lifting it? he seems more worthy than Thor to me lol

wait according to the credentials needed to lift the hammer others have posted or came up with..... Jesus can't lift the hammer

Superman isn't much of the warrior type.

 

[supermarvelman]

I just recently read something in an issue of Wizard magazine, I'm sorry but I forget who was being interviewed, I think it was the writer of Thor, but I'm sorry I cant give any quotes but whatever.

What the interview was about was Thor, Asgard, Mjolnir, his return, yadda yadda yadda, anyway one of the questions asked was about other people being "worthy" of picking up Mjolnir. The responce given made sense to me, the writer said that people like Superman shouldn't even really be worthy, nor should anybody who is not somewhat willing to kill. Something about Mjolnir being a weapon of desruction, anyway I feel stupid not coming with any real quotes so I'm gonna go reread Wizard and repost.

 

[Kitsune]

why do people think Superman isnt worthy of lifting it? he seems more worthy than Thor to me lol

wait according to the credentials needed to lift the hammer others have posted or came up with..... Jesus can't lift the hammer

Considering Odin was also a god who sacrificed himself on the world tree Yggdrasill in order to gain knowledge, Jesus just might be seen as worthy. But then again, we don't know what qualities Odin was judging "Worthiness" by.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Hi.
It's NOT that I think Ben Grimm SHOULDN'T be able to lift it, it's that I think ONLY Thor should be able to lift it. It takes a special, noble, warrior spirit, someone with that special "Thorocity" if you will, to heft that mallet.

Personally? I think the list of people who CAN lift it is just too darn large as it is. To me, the only reason the Awesome Andy story works is because at the moment when Awesome Andy CAN lift it, he's a machine. He's no different from a winch, a crane, or a flatbed truck (and we have seen mechanical devices lift Mjolnir). It's at the moment when Andy is NOT a machine, when he's a sentient being with a soul-- that's when he can no longer keep it aloft.

I was at a Marvel meeting where a writer was unfolding the future events of one of their stories. They were doing a great job, everyone was enthralled, and then they reached a point in their story where they said, "And then (name of one of his secondary characters) picks up Thor's hammer!" The writer paused for dramatic effect.

And, after a beat, upcoming Thor-writer, JMS, said (and without any malice or meanspiritedness-- just a plain this-is-the-way-it-is kind of tone) "No, he doesn't."

And that was it. The other writer's story still happened. It was still unbelievably cool. But it just didn't have that story beat in it.

As a Thor fan, I appreciate that. You gotta keep that list down. Every time someone ELSE lifts up that hammer, Thor becomes a little less special. And you gotta watch out for that. (With the possible exception of Future Thors and Thor's descendants. To me, Future Thors work in that they have Thor's spirit-- a Once-And-Future-King-kind of scenario or, if you want to get all geeky about it, like Doctor Who regenerations. And with descendants, then it's a legacy thing like The Phantom-- and that works too.)

So, to answer your question, I don't think Ben could-or-should be able to lift it. Conversely, I don't think Thor could keep down ten pounds of Yancy Street knishes. So it all evens out. Each hero must be true to their own selves.

I completely agree with you on all points. My stomach always tightens up anytime I see Thor's hammer taken away from him. In some instances, like with Captain America, it was actually pretty cool. Cap's about as noble and courageous a warrior spirit as anyone's ever likely to find, and it made for a really dramatic moment where he turned the tide of the battle against Set's forces with Mjolnir. But others have been a little less than sensible. I still wonder to this day how Eric Masterson managed to lift Mjolnir while he wasn't bonded to Thor. He's an architect, for crying out loud!

Funny that you mention JMS. Back when Mjolnir crash-landed in Oklahoma in FF, I got that familiar tightening in my stomach because all the covers depicted Dr. Doom holding Mjolnir, which should never, ever happen. Thankfully, events inside the issue played out differently. I'm glad to know that little tidbit about JMS in that meeting, too. I had some doubts when I saw his name on Thor's relaunch, but the few issues we've gotten so far have been great, and it's nice to know he knows what he's doing with Thor behind the scenes as well.

 

[BrianWilly]

I'm not surprised at all that Ben Grimm can't lift the hammer. On top of having a truckload of Wangst on top of anger management issues and occasional...playful vindication, I see him being more comfortable as a lieutenant than as a captain. And the wielder of the hammer has to have the potential to one day rule Asgard itself as Odin's successor.

But then again, we don't know what qualities Odin was judging "Worthiness" by.

We do know. Or at the least, we have a very good idea. Honor, warrior virtue, wisdom, leadership capabilities, sense of justice...and all those by Asgardian standards, which are generally quite enlightened and practical. The hammer was made to be wielded by Thor, to groom Thor into the Thor that Thor needs to be. So Thor himself is the baseline; imagine his qualities and you get a pretty good notion of the qualities that Mjolnir demands.



ACH, deja freaking vu.

 

[rodhulk]

Hi.

I've only read through the first 4 pages of this thread so this MIGHT be covering ground that's already been covered but-- here's what I know...

In current continuity, these guys have lifted it...

Various Thors (Donald Blake, Eric Masterson/Thunderstrike, Dargo Ktor, Jake Olson, etc.)

Odin
(and, technically, I THINK the Dwarf that helped Odin make the hammer wielded it-- but BEFORE Odin placed the enchantment on it. But that's just my recollection. Odin, on the other hand, can lift the darn thing WHENEVER he wants).
Beta-Ray Bill
Captain America (when he was "The Captain")
Thanos (when he was wearing the Infinity Gauntlet)

and...

Awesome Andy (but only when he's a "machine", once he gained sentience, he could no longer hod it aloft)...
(Cheap Plug: To see that story, pick up the recently released SHE-HULK: WORLD WITHOUT A HULK TPB, which JUST came out last week! Or...
Go to Marvel.Com's Digital Comics area and read SHE-HULK Vol.2 #14 for FREE!)

In possible futures...
Defrosted Captain America held it and used it for some time in 2099
Miguel O'Hara (Spider-Man 2099)
Dargo Ktor
Thor's son, Magni
(Was there someone from the Valentino-written Guardians of the Galaxy? I'm not sure.)

In other realities...
Jane Foster (in an issue of What If?)
Wonder Woman
Superman (was able to lift in some issues of JLA/Avengers but NOT at the end).

Guys who've tried and couldn't lift it...
Loki
Hulk
Thing
Mr. Hyde (and TOO many Thor villains to mention)
Maestro
Spider-Man (pretty sure there's a Marvel Team-Up where Spidey tries and can't budge it)
The Beast (in an issue of Avengers)
Hyperion (the Superman counterpart from the Squadron Supreme world)

And that's just off the top of my head...

This has been debated numerous times, but the Hulk in the ULTIMATE AVENGERS movie lifted mjolnir. Nobody seems to know if mjolnir had the same enchantment as in the 616 universe. Thor even seemed surprised in the movie when Hulk lifted it. Any thoughts?

 

[The Question]

The Hulk shouldn't be able to lift Mjolnir. With his violent mood swings, multiple personalities, and crippling depression, Bruce would make a poor ruler of Asgard, which is really what the enchantment is meant to look for.

 

[rodhulk]

The Hulk shouldn't be able to lift Mjolnir. With his violent mood swings, multiple personalities, and crippling depression, Bruce would make a poor ruler of Asgard, which is really what the enchantment is meant to look for.

But Hulk still lifted mjolnir in the movie so we have to know if there was an enchantement or not.

 

[The Question]

But Hulk still lifted mjolnir in the movie so we have to know if there was an enchantement or not.

There probably was, but the point of the scene was to show that The Hulk is stronger than Odin's ability to manipulate time and space. Which is really kind of dumb, but so was that movie.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

There are always things in comic book movies that dont jive with their comic book counterpart's.Do I have to remind you of the ever "GROWING" Hulk of the Batman "KILLS" issues from their movies?You really cant try to use those events to qulify issues from the comics.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Absolute blasphemy!! DC characters with Thor's hammer? I think I'm going to be ill....

Well, I can't speak on Wonder Woman, but as for Superman he was only able to pick it up because the need was great. After he used it, Supes couldn't lift the hammer anymore.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Well, I can't speak on Wonder Woman, but as for Superman he was only able to pick it up because the need was great. After he used it, Supes couldn't lift the hammer anymore.

He must have gotten super hernia

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Heh, no, no that's not what I meant. The implication was that Odin temporarily lifted the enchantment on the hammer so that Superman could lift it and after the day had been saved the enchantment was back in place, therefore Supes couldn't pick the hammer up anymore.

 

[BrianWilly]

Wow, welcome to the beginning of the thread.

This has been debated numerous times, but the Hulk in the ULTIMATE AVENGERS movie lifted mjolnir. Nobody seems to know if mjolnir had the same enchantment as in the 616 universe. Thor even seemed surprised in the movie when Hulk lifted it. Any thoughts?

If the Hulk lifted Mjolnir in the movie, then obviously it doesn't have the same enchantments as the comics, because the Hulk can't lift Mjolnir in the comics.

By definition no movie is ever going to be set in the 616 universe since they are movies and not comics; rules from one don't apply to the other.

How is this possibly a debate? No one watches X-Men: Evolution going "woa there is 616 Storm supposd to be a teacher now or sumthing."

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Aren't all the X-Men supposed to be teachers? No one ever seems to remember that that place is a school except for Morrison and probably whoever writes New X-Men (I don't read it, so I can't say for sure).

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Aren't all the X-Men supposed to be teachers? No one ever seems to remember that that place is a school except for Morrison and probably whoever writes New X-Men (I don't read it, so I can't say for sure).

Thats the X-men now.He was talking about how Storm was a teacher in the last cartoon to characters like Cyclopes.He was younger then her in that toon but older or at least the same age as her in the comics.As a mater of fact.....He was kind of her teacher in the comics.He was headmaster of the school while Xavier was off in space getting laidt: