Who is to blame if this film doesn't do well?

[Prefix]

Alright, let's look generally at this from a hypothetical point of view

1. the film has changed, they are providing a better looking hulk in most people's eyes

2. They fix up the cgi movements

3. They include abomination, his greatest foe

4. There's a 26 minute fight scene

5. It has elements from the old series

6. They have cameos from stark/fury tying in other marvel films

7. Less intense drama, more action

So they have all these things now put in pretty much as a request from fans based on the reaction from the last film.

So the film fails to make an impression on the box office, who is to blame?

Terrorism

 

[ArtTeacher]

put it in the trailer reaction thread. I'm not saying it's a bad post, it's just side tracking.

...sidetracking a subject that a moderator said, "Does not warrant a thread of it's own"?

Just messing with ya.

 

[Bad Boy Boogie]

i'll blame bruce jones.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

For me, it would have to be Marvel, their lies at the start that this movie will be more faithful to the comics than Ang's movie never stand well with the fans, especially me, did they not learn from the X3 fiasco of the screen-writers telling lie after lie about the movie? Throw in Abominations terrible 're-design,' the reason for which makes no sense and would have applied to the comics design also, not to mention some possibly story points (Hulk possibly killing a/some humans?!), not to mention a bit of a rushed production time which could see the CGI in the movie suffer and this all makes me for one not look forward to the movie to much.

The trailer was good, but so were the trailers for X3, a dreadful movie and FF2, Ghost Rider and Blade:Trinity, which all turned out average at best.

 

[thegameq]

Great post, 'Game.

Friends, fear not.

The main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things.

(“Oh, Lawd, Martha, ArtTeacher’s on one of his long monologues again…get a pillow!”)

The ArtTeacher Manifesto in Three Parts:
(Brought to you in Technicolor courtesy of Hulk5150)

Part I:

There’s no need to stress.
It only seems that everyone’s being negative about it.
In reality, you’ve got a handful of negative, moody, pent-up fanboys that want so desperately for The Dark Knight to beat Spider-Man numbers that they’ll badmouth anything that gets in its way.*

As a result, people that haven’t seen the trailer are talking about how fake it looks.
In addition, people that ripped Ang Lee’s Hulk are now praising it as the definitive Hulk while saying the 2008 Hulk just plain sucks.
Guys that absolutely RIPPED on people that made snap judgments on “unfinished” CGI from the Superbowl trailer of 2003 are now ripping the 2008 trailer, even though the director himself went on record as saying that the CGI is not complete.
And I absolutely love the people that can’t be bothered to watch the trailer in HD and have only seen it on a fuzzy YouTube video and say that the Hulk doesn’t look as clear and crisp as he should.
(Obviously, I’m not saying this is everyone that ever had a bad thing to say about the trailer)

But, like I said, focus on the big picture and the main things: If you had never had sex (with another person) outside of your imagination, you might be a little testy, too.

I keed, I keed.

…Probably.

Part II:

Now, if you talk to people that DON’T have an agenda, you might start to see a different trend:
Several of my friends have no problem endlessly ripping on me for “making” them watch Ang Lee’s Hulk. When they heard Marvel was going to make another, the ribbing started. But I have to tell ya, they’ve all had to eat a bit of crow; they’ve all said, “You know, ArtTeacher, I gotta say, it looks pretty good…which sucks because I really wanted 5 more years of jacking with you.”

After watching the debut on MTV, the girl I’m dating right now (who has NO comic book knowledge…other than seeing my classroom) said, “The Hulk looks the way he’s supposed to look…like the Hulk.”

The funny thing is…not one person ripped the CGI. But that’s all you hear around here and a seemingly endless list of other sites occupied by young people that sound like cantankerous curmudgeons.

Joe Sixpack isn’t watching the trailer frame by frame and counting the striations on Hulk’s left deltoid and comparing that to the right one. Honestly, Joe Sixpack wants to be entertained…and he (and his live-in ex-wife’s girlfriend) will gather up the kids, pack them in the Winnebago and head off to whichever movie looks like it will babysit them for a couple hours.

To me, the trailer says, “This isn’t the old movie; it’s going to be good this time!”
Good or bad, right or wrong, true or false, the public’s general association with Ang Lee’s Hulk is, “It wasn’t good,” even if they have never seen the movie (bad word of mouth has stuck in the population’s memory).

Part III

I have no problem with the marketing. Yes, we had to wait a really long time. But I’ve always been the type of guy that would rather have it done well than done quickly. Sure, I felt like I was going to absolutely burst waiting for a pic, an action figure, a trailer, or any little tidbit. But, with the heaviest genre-filled summer in history, I didn’t mind Marvel being sly little devils and waiting until the air from the tires of TDK, Iron Man, etc. deflate a bit.

Now, the success of a plan like that hinges on the quality of the product…or at least the perceived quality of the product. Could the trailer have had more of a “WOW” factor? Sure. But what trailer couldn’t? The trailer showed that the Hulk will layeth the smacketh down. And, really, isn’t this what we’re paying our $9 to see? Yes, yes, of course we want a great story, strong performances, dazzling special effects, etc.…but if the Hulk isn’t…smashing…do we really care?

Now that the wait is over, there really is no excuse to not bombard us with Hulk. I am okay with the marketing being skimpy up front as long as they pull a Sir Mix-A-Lot (and stuff the back end).
April (and especially May) should be Hulk Month. I should see the Hulk everywhere. I should hear “The Incredible Hulk” more than I hear my own name. I shouldn’t be able to buy a gallon of milk without running into 5 people talking about the new Hulk movie.

All in all, I was pleased. Is there room for improvement? Surely. Will we get it? That remains to be seen. Did you read that? It remains to be seen. Which means even the craftiest fanboys with their inside scoops and crystal balls can’t say for sure, yet. So, why get panties in a bunch?

It’s good that Marvel may hear that not everyone laid down like a sacrificial lamb and blindly praised the trailer…but at this point, is there that much they can do to change it? I’m asking because I don’t know. I mean, filming is done. Sure, there are a lot of things you can do in an editing room…but there IS only so much you can do in an editing room, you know?

I want so badly for this movie to be astounding, astonishing, and amazing. I want it to make gobs of money.
But let’s face it; no matter how the movie does, it’s probably not going to be regarded as the new Godfather…nor should it try or pretend to be...
...nor should the fans expect it to be.

Guys, everything is not perfect.
If it were, this wouldn't be called Earth, it would be called Heaven.
So, quit comparing everything to perfection.
Doing that can only result in disappointment.
That doesn't mean you should expect mediocre product; but you probably wouldn't want your boss, friends, etc. demanding absolute perfection from you every day, either.

The plain things are the main things, indeed.




*By the way, I’ll eat a dead dog’s penis if The Dark Knight does Spider-Man numbers.

You lost me at the end..................surely you could have thought of something else to eat.

 

[thegameq]

For me, it would have to be Marvel, their lies at the start that this movie will be more faithful to the comics than Ang's movie never stand well with the fans, especially me, did they not learn from the X3 fiasco of the screen-writers telling lie after lie about the movie? Throw in Abominations terrible 're-design,' the reason for which makes no sense and would have applied to the comics design also, not to mention some possibly story points (Hulk possibly killing a/some humans?!), not to mention a bit of a rushed production time which could see the CGI in the movie suffer and this all makes me for one not look forward to the movie to much.

The trailer was good, but so were the trailers for X3, a dreadful movie and FF2, Ghost Rider and Blade:Trinity, which all turned out average at best.

That is my biggest fear with Marvel making their own films; they will cave to fear of failure and bastardize their own characters. I think that's one of the reason's there is some missgivings about this Hulk film. Despite the attempt to have Hulk look like comicbook Hulk and to include one of Hulk's main foes, the film still looks IMO to fall short of what the fans were expecting and hoping for--especially in comparison to Iron Man and Spider-man.

I'm just not getting that comicbook movie Spider-man/Iron Man vibe...and that's not good. The vibe I am getting is that this is a less convoluted version of the Hulk mixed with the TV show.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[FrostBite]

Agree. They'll say people were still turned off by the last Hulk movie but in the end it will be Marvel's fault.

People are turned off because the last Hulk, as much as I hate to say that. It's absolutely foolish to think their reaction of the last film will have no impact on this one.

It would also be Marvels fault for not showing that it isn't a sequel, but lets not pretend the sour taste the last left will not have an effect on the Box Office as it's probably the biggest thing going against it in the GA's view. (As we can see people wanted a Hulk film from Hulk's opening numbers.)

conclusion: If you think Ang's attempt and it's reception is not partly to blame, I pity you. Though most of the blame is on Marvel for not stating that this isn't a sequel on some sort of talk show to get the word out.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Absolutely 26 minute fight. It's insane and impossible. No one wants to watch fight that long.

Wrong.

One of the best movies ever made is a black and white samurai movie called "Sword of Doom".

The ending is a fight that goes on for 20 minutes and it's freaking amazing.
My friends and I used to get drunk and watch that fight over and over again.
I've seen it scores of times. We'd plan just to watch that epic sword fight.

And I'm reminded of the intensity of the beginning of "Saving Private Ryan", which I believe is 20 minutes long and essentially a battle.
One of the greatest film moments ever.


And both of those 20 minute fights don't even have the super-powered magnitude and dazzling effects potential of a 20 minute Hulk brawl.

It's not insane. It's not impossible, and many people want to see it.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

a 20 minute battle scene with various characters is one thing but a 20 minute showcase of two characters going at one another is completely different and could get very tedious very quickly

 

[Kirmit]

a 20 minute battle scene with various characters is one thing but a 20 minute showcase of two characters going at one another is completely different and could get very tedious very quickly

Yeah I agree with that, that's why I think there'll be alot more going on then just the 2 monsters fighting.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

M. Night Shyamalan

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

When the movie fails in the U.S, I'll blame Ang Lee and Universal. Mark my words the first movie's terrible reception will hurt The Incredible Hulk, big time. It doesn't matter how good or bad it is, it will fail.

I'll be eating some serious crow pie if it doesn't but I don't think that I'll be wrong. I'll eat my Spider-Man shirt if it makes over it's 130mil budget in the states.

 

[Hugebear]

I disagree.
Not all people are turned off by the Hulk. The Hulk movie was not as bad as people make it out to be. It may have some impact but not enough to get even part of the blame. Because in the end, how well the new movie does depends mostly on itself and not any other movie.
Take Batman Begins for example. Batman and Robin may have left a sour taste, but if Batman Begins had been as bad as that movie, you couldn’t really blame Batman and Robin for it not doing well.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^Um people actually had Batman movies they liked before B&R. Hulk was the character's very first big screen adaption and completely tanked as far as word of mouth was concerned. It doesn't matter if you didn't think that it wasn't that bad, most people did.

 

[Shivsguy616]

^Um people actually had Batman movies they liked before B&R. Hulk was the character's very first big screen adaption and completely tanked as far as word of mouth was concerned. It doesn't matter if you didn't think that it wasn't that bad, most people did.

The double negative in your last sentence changes it from what you meant to say.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

It's actually a triple negative, but unnecessarily wordy grammar aside, I'm not sure that he really has any idea what he's talking about. His statements presume both a.) that people are incredibly naive to judge NOT to see this movie on the basis of Ang's Hulk and b.) that the movie WILL fail. Note such comments as, "When the movie fails" and "it will fail" and "I don't think that I'll be wrong." In short, these are the sentiments of one who is overly confident in himself and/or what he believes, so there's really no convincing him otherwise. If TIH does actually gross "over it's 130mil budget in the states," as he says, we might look for him not to eat "some serious crow pie" as promised, but to make excuses as to why it did.

 

[Shivsguy616]

It's actually a triple negative.

I was talking about the first two. the "didn't like it part" coud be replaced with anything and it would still be wrong.

 

[Webhead38]

Well at this stage all we have to blame is the marketing because no one has seen the movie. I've seen great films that were robbed of better ticket receipts because the marketing was poor. In direct contrast, I've seen really bad movies where the marketing was deceptively enticing. I've never seen a film (in the hero genre) do well during the summer season when the marketing wasn't very good. The fact that they catered to the toy companies with movie footage prior to letting the fans see anything tells me where they hope to retrieve their investment after the movie leaves theaters.

 

[BLAQUE-SPIDERMAN]

"Who do WE BLAME?" We blame no one. We may have to consider the fact that no matter how hard they try, the Hulk might not be the box office superstar like Spidey, Superman, Batman, etc... If that's the case, then just do a Hulk animated movie straight to DVD- (a'la The Ultimate Avengers), and cater to your core audience. Everyone's happy. (...if it were THAT easy, huh?)

 

[TheSlag]

Alright, let's look generally at this from a hypothetical point of view

1. the film has changed, they are providing a better looking hulk in most people's eyes

2. They fix up the cgi movements

3. They include abomination, his greatest foe

4. There's a 26 minute fight scene

5. It has elements from the old series

6. They have cameos from stark/fury tying in other marvel films

7. Less intense drama, more action

So they have all these things now put in pretty much as a request from fans based on the reaction from the last film.

So the film fails to make an impression on the box office, who is to blame?

Why do you think #7 Lapdog? The story line, and actor, makes this look like it is more intense to me, especially since there are no Jellyfish origins involved. This one has a much better feel to the "Doomed to walk the earth Man" feel to it... which I LOVE about the Hulk.

 

[Comicfan]

Who is to blame if this film doesn't do well?

we?...

 

[ArtTeacher]

When the movie fails in the U.S, I'll blame Ang Lee and Universal. Mark my words the first movie's terrible reception will hurt The Incredible Hulk, big time. It doesn't matter how good or bad it is, it will fail.

I'll be eating some serious crow pie if it doesn't but I don't think that I'll be wrong. I'll eat my Spider-Man shirt if it makes over it's 130mil budget in the states.

Well, I guess technically, one Spider-Man shirt is for dinner tonight.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^Yep but the movie still failed. Go figure.

 

[Venomfan]

Well, I guess technically, one Spider-Man shirt is for dinner tonight.

you've got it worse lol

*By the way, I’ll eat a dead dog’s penis if The Dark Knight does Spider-Man numbers.

 

[ArtTeacher]

you've got it worse lol

Ha ha! True! I guess I'll call my connections in Korea...!


You know, with enough ketchup, anything tastes ok.


(Can I try using the loophole that it didn't do Spider-Man numbers...it surpassed them...?)