Who would be the villain

[Omegabat]

Then why are you talking about Wolfman if he has nothing to do with this supposed new dynamic direction DC is going to take Slade as the anti-Batman?

EDIT; I just looked this up. You seem to be over glorifying this Priest thing;

'Priest: The anti-Batman thing, I’m pretty sure that’s where Marv was coming from in the first place. Is that he’s the, here’s what Batman could become. And frankly, if I had more time with Batman – which I’m not going to get, but if I had more time with Batman, I would explore that. Deathstroke is the dark mirror version of Batman, basically. He is every bit as resourceful, every bit as ruthless, every bit as powerful as Batman. So when the two of them face off in issue 4 and 5, it’s more intellectual than it is even physical, because the two of them almost cancel each other out. They both try to out-think each other, and they both try to be three steps ahead of each other, so it’s kind of interesting, and a difficult thing to write.'

http://newsok.com/article/5512641

All he said was if he had more time with Batman, which he is not getting, he would explore the anti-Batman angle with Slade. Where did you get that they're making Slade the new anti-Batman from?



Because I find it hard to believe all the writers just turned around and said no to DC bosses about the direction they wanted to take Todd. This is what you claimed, and its the crux of your belief that this direction that Slade is being promised won't fall through like Todd's did. So you obviously must have read this somewhere yes? So lets see it.



I don't think you read the description. Penguin ruled Gotham. Penguin was prepped for the war. Penguin blew the bridges to Gotham. Penguin had Bane as an errand boy doing task like bringing him Ogalvy.

I don't know what you mean by Penguin being the same in these events. So are most of the villains. What was the difference between Joker in Knightfall and No Man's Land for example? Not to mention Penguin was not the same in this story. He was ruling Gotham as a self titled Mayor.



If I could? Of course I can;

“They really wanted the Penguin,” Hamm explained in the 2005 documentary Shadows of the Bat. “Because they saw the Penguin as the number two Batman villain."

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/...volution-of-the-bleakest-superhero-movie-ever

You can wager all you like. Penguin is more prominent and has more exposure even today than Slade does.



Bane appeared in one scene in Arkham as a puppet controlled boss fight who got knocked into the river by Batman's Batmobile and was never seen again. Penguin in City was a major crime lord who ruled one third of Arkham City, had his own base in the museum, and had a whole section dedicated to the game to defeating him and saving Mr. Freeze from him whom he had imprisoned as a grotesque trophy.

Even Two Face didn't get that high treatment as he was basically a cameo in the courthouse who Batman whups after he saves Catwoman. Bane was even worse. A side mission you defeat by trapping behind an elevator lol.



What do you mean 60's show is 60's show? Its one of the biggest cultural icons of Batman mythology and the reason many of these characters became so well known to the public. Meredith's Penguin is still iconic today. Scarecrow didn't appear in half as many episodes as Penguin did. Neither did Bane. Or Two Face. Slade didn't appear at all. Penguin also appeared as a main villain in one of the animated spin off movies, too. Scarecrow was a side villain in Batman Begins working for the League of Shadows, and had minimal screen time. Penguin was a front and center main villain in Returns. Now Penguin is headlining as one of the most popular characters in the Gotham TV show.

Crane can't touch this lot.



Yeah, people do say stupid stuff all the time

I challenge your appraisal. A character being reduced to what you claim he is being reduced to wouldn't get the levels of praise and popularity he has. No way. No good performance could warrant levels of praise that call that kind of characterization one of the best villains on TV ever.

That's just one interview, see his website, or dozen or so interviews, he's made it clear that his approach to writing Wilson will be to write him as THE anti-Batman.
http://lamerciepark.com/comics/deathstroke/#section2

Here's just one example, mentions Batman's many times and mentions Cap America twice. He's writing Slade as an evil Steve Rogers/ Bruce Wayne hybrid in terms of power, personality, motivation, backstory etc.

My argument was that just because the company sets a line doesn't mean the writers will bend backward for it. You brought up Jason Todd as an example, I proved how writers were unwilling to go with company wishes by sparing Grayson, creating Damian and writing Todd as a whiny, degenerate loser.
A simple Google search should be enough to find out about the Didio/Todd/Grayson fiasco, it's probably one of the most talked about things in comic history.

Then you are deliberately distorting the story to suit your own agenda, you're blatantly lying at this point, blowing the bridges accomplished nothing other than trapping the lunatics with Bane and led to them getting their asses kicked. He was mayor of a city that was ruled by Bane and his brigade of Talons(Pengi cant even deal with one) with the blessing of the Crime Syndicate. Bane delivered Ogilvy in exchange for Penguin's continuing support, besides Ogilvy was fighting in Bane's own army, not like Bane specially went to hunt him for Penguin. Cobblepot was aware and made a request,Bane obliged. All in all Arkham War was a Bane story, it started with Batman 23.1 Bane and ended with Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman vs Bane. Penguin was just another in a long list of players who ended up getting trounced by Bane and forced to accept his rule. So what if he called himself Mayor? Bane changed the name of Wayne tower to Bane tower, irrelevant trivia.

The difference is that Joker is active doing something, Penguin can be counted on to sit in his club preparing to serve the new master of the time. Joker responds to the need of the story, Penguin does not.

Ok, fair enough but he doesn't have more exposure than Slade, lets take a look from 2000 and onwards

Slade:
Teen Titans animated series(main villain in particular of the first two seasons)
Son of Batman(main villain)
Arrow(main villain of season 2 and a permanent character for the first 2 seasons)
Beware the Batman(main villain of the second phase of the season)
Young Justice( main enforcer of the big bads)
Arkham Origins(marketed as the main villain)
Arkham Knight
Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
Injustice Gods Among US
Cameos in Flashpoint Paradox and JL: Crisis on Two-Earths
In the future:
Teen Titans : The Judas Contract(main villain)
Most likely Injustice Two

Penguin:
The Batman
Batman Mystery of the Batwoman(main villain...maybe)
Arkham City
Arkham Knight
Arkham Origins
Gotham(recurring character)
Cameos in Assault on Arkham and Bad Blood.


Notice how Penguin is not the main villain in any of them? notice how Penguin is so laughably dependent on Batman? he's only getting exposure because he's a Batman character. For a character that trails Penguin by 40 years Slade has done a much better job in the last 15 years, heck he's done a better job as a Batman villain even despite not even being one.

And I already conceded that Bane was indeed a side puppet in City and a mediocre boss in Asylum. But you're ignoring that Penguin was a throwaway character in Knight and Origins while Bane was the main villain(alongside Joker) in the latter. Still beats Penguin.

I say 60's because your comparison is bogus and flawed, for one Bane and Slade didn't even exist back then, nor did Ra's or Harley(guess Penguin is bigger character than them too) secondly Two-Face and Scarecrow were not used because they were too "scary", at least Dent was. Besides you seem to be clutching on to a 50 year old show that doesn't even remotely inform Batman or DC currently as it means something. He starred in a show before Batman got almost all of his iconic story lines , he got many of his big villains later and frankly lets not act as if the 60's show lasted many seasons or that Merideth is ranked close to West, Ward,Romano or Newmar.


Try putting that Penguin in a movie now, or even make a Batman movie like that and see how it fares...

Manu Bennet got similar praise for Arrow and you're intentionally exaggerating Penguin there because this is pretty much the only piece of Penguin relevance you can cling on to.

 

[The Joker]

That's just one interview, see his website, or dozen or so interviews, he's made it clear that his approach to writing Wilson will be to write him as THE anti-Batman.
http://lamerciepark.com/comics/deathstroke/#section2

You're going to have to copy and paste the part you mean because I don't see what you're referring to in that link.

Did he renege on what he said? Did he say he was exploring Slade as an anti-Batman? No. He just said there's some similarities to him and Batman, but nowhere did he say he's making Slade the next anti-Batman. He said the opposite. He said he's not because he's not getting to do any Batman stories.

My argument was that just because the company sets a line doesn't mean the writers will bend backward for it. You brought up Jason Todd as an example, I proved how writers were unwilling to go with company wishes by sparing Grayson, creating Damian and writing Todd as a whiny, degenerate loser.
A simple Google search should be enough to find out about the Didio/Todd/Grayson fiasco, it's probably one of the most talked about things in comic history.

If a company who is in charge tells the writers they want to go in a certain direction with a character, they do it, or they get another writer who does.

You are the one who brought this point up, so if the proof is so easily accessible then post a link to where this was said.

Then you are deliberately distorting the story to suit your own agenda, you're blatantly lying at this point, blowing the bridges accomplished nothing other than trapping the lunatics with Bane and led to them getting their asses kicked. He was mayor of a city that was ruled by Bane and his brigade of Talons(Pengi cant even deal with one) with the blessing of the Crime Syndicate. Bane delivered Ogilvy in exchange for Penguin's continuing support, besides Ogilvy was fighting in Bane's own army, not like Bane specially went to hunt him for Penguin. Cobblepot was aware and made a request,Bane obliged. All in all Arkham War was a Bane story, it started with Batman 23.1 Bane and ended with Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman vs Bane. Penguin was just another in a long list of players who ended up getting trounced by Bane and forced to accept his rule. So what if he called himself Mayor? Bane changed the name of Wayne tower to Bane tower, irrelevant trivia.

Wrong again. You say I'm lying. With the heroes gone, Penguin becomes mayor of Gotham City, and divides the city up to different Arkham inmates. Scarecrow, hoping to control Gotham, goes to see Mr. Freeze, The Riddler, Killer Croc and Poison Ivy to let them know that a war with Blackgate Prison is coming and to gain their support. Through his conversations with each, Scarecrow learns that Bane may be the cause of the Blackgate uprising, and will be their leader in the impending war, hoping to use the Talons that were stored at Blackgate on ice.[24] Bane, having escaped Peña Dura Prison in Santa Prisca, travels to Gotham hoping to control it as well, and orchestrates the release of Blackgate's prisoners during the Crime Syndicate's broadcast to the world. Bane enters Blackgate to join the prisoners there, where he comes across where the Talons are stored, hoping to make them in to his weapons. Scarecrow approaches Professor Pyg and Penguin to see if they will support him. Penguin has already planned for the impending war, by blowing up the bridges giving access to Gotham City. The attack on the city begins, with Bane's men attacking the Gotham City Police Department. Scarecrow and Man-Bat attempt to steal the frozen Talons from Blackgate while Penguin is having a meeting with Bane, though Bane arrives at Blackgate as the Man-Bats are attempting to transport the Talons to Mr. Freeze, able to keep one from leaving. The Man-Bats are able to bring the remaining Talons to Mr. Freeze, while Bane retrieves Emperor Penguin for the Penguin as part of their agreement. When he brings him to the Penguin, the Penguin tells him that the Arkham fighters are not scared of Bane, as he does not instill fear as Batman did. Realizing this, Bane constructs a batsuit for himself and sets his sights on retrieving the Talons. Bane wakes up the Talon William Cobb and takes him through Gotham where he fights members of Arkham Asylum. Bane begins recruiting Gotham citizens to his side, offering his base at Wayne Tower as a haven to the people to escape the rule of the Arkham inmates. He tells Cobb his plan to turn the city over to the Court, in exchange for use of Talons at his disposal to be powered by his Venom. Elsewhere, Scarecrow begins waking the Talons in his possession, having doused them with his fear gas and using Mad Hatter's mind-control technology in their helmets to control them. The Talons attack Bane's men, and eventually set their target on Bane. Bane, with the help of Cobb, is able to injure the Talons enough to activate their regenerative powers to remove the mind-control technology. At Arkham Asylum, Scarecrow senses he has lost the Talons and turns to his next plan, giving the other Arkhamites a small dose of Bane's Venom to temporarily transform them.The Venom-induced Arkham villains attack Bane and the Talons at Blackgate. They bring Bane back to Arkham Asylum, where Bane begins to defeat them as their Venom wears off. Penguin arrives to congratulate Bane, and offers to exchange his help for the Arkhamites. Bane takes the offer, keeping Scarecrow however, to hang between two buildings and declares that Gotham City is finally his. Following the defeat of the Crime Syndicate, Batman eventually returns to Gotham, delivers Scarecrow to the Gotham City Police Department, and is able to defeat Bane and his Talons. With Bane locked up in Arkham Asylum under heavy guard, Bruce Wayne and Commissioner Gordon work to rebuild Gotham City.

Penguin ruled Gotham. Penguin divided up the city. Penguin cut off the city by blowing the bridges. Penguin is the one Bane went to for support. Yeah Penguin went down in the end, as villains do, but he was boss man here.

The difference is that Joker is active doing something, Penguin can be counted on to sit in his club preparing to serve the new master of the time. Joker responds to the need of the story, Penguin does not.

You clearly have not read many Penguin stories then. Take NML, he was ruler of a huge chunk of Gotham, he was holding barbaric fights for entertainment, he went to turf wars with Two Face, he made deals with Lex Luthor etc. He was not just sitting in his club doing nothing.

Ok, fair enough but he doesn't have more exposure than Slade, lets take a look from 2000 and onwards

Slade:
Teen Titans animated series(main villain in particular of the first two seasons)
Son of Batman(main villain)
Arrow(main villain of season 2 and a permanent character for the first 2 seasons)
Beware the Batman(main villain of the second phase of the season)
Young Justice( main enforcer of the big bads)
Arkham Origins(marketed as the main villain)
Arkham Knight
Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
Injustice Gods Among US
Cameos in Flashpoint Paradox and JL: Crisis on Two-Earths
In the future:
Teen Titans : The Judas Contract(main villain)
Most likely Injustice Two

Penguin:
The Batman
Batman Mystery of the Batwoman(main villain...maybe)
Arkham City
Arkham Knight
Arkham Origins
Gotham(recurring character)
Cameos in Assault on Arkham and Bad Blood.

I think you missed a few on Pengy's side, surprise surprise;

Batman Unlimited: Animal Instincts
Batman: The Brave and the Bold
Lego Batman Video Game
Lego Batman Video Game 2
Batman Arkham Origins: Blackgate
Batman Telltale Game

Still out ranking Slade.

Notice how Penguin is not the main villain in any of them? notice how Penguin is so laughably dependent on Batman? he's only getting exposure because he's a Batman character. For a character that trails Penguin by 40 years Slade has done a much better job in the last 15 years, heck he's done a better job as a Batman villain even despite not even being one.

Come again? He's a main villain in all the Arkham Games he appeared in, in The Batman cartoon, the Gotham TV show, Mystery of the Batwoman, and Batman Unlimited Animal Instincts. The only ones he's not a main villain in are the two cameos you listed.

And I already conceded that Bane was indeed a side puppet in City and a mediocre boss in Asylum. But you're ignoring that Penguin was a throwaway character in Knight and Origins while Bane was the main villain(alongside Joker) in the latter. Still beats Penguin.

Except Penguin wasn't a throwaway character in Knight or Origins. He was a main villain in both. He had a whole section of the game on the ship in AO, and in Knight he gets a whole story of being the arms dealer to the Knight, and even kidnaps Nightwing.

What did Slade do in these games?

I say 60's because your comparison is bogus and flawed, for one Bane and Slade didn't even exist back then, nor did Ra's or Harley(guess Penguin is bigger character than them too) secondly Two-Face and Scarecrow were not used because they were too "scary", at least Dent was. Besides you seem to be clutching on to a 50 year old show that doesn't even remotely inform Batman or DC currently as it means something. He starred in a show before Batman got almost all of his iconic story lines , he got many of his big villains later and frankly lets not act as if the 60's show lasted many seasons or that Merideth is ranked close to West, Ward,Romano or Newmar.

Hang on, how is it bogus just because Bane and Slade didn't exist back then? Should we just ignore the huge impact that show had for the status of Batman just because Slade didn't exist then? Scarecrow and Two Face existed back then, but they didn't get put in the show. You can't ignore Penguin's long prominent history that predates Slade and Bane. Its one of the reasons why Penguin is a bigger more prominent villain than they are.

The show lasted 3 years and had massive impact. Its a cultural icon. Quality not quantity. You walk up to a random person on the street odds are they'll know the Batman TV show more than they'll know Slade or Bane. Meredith was absolutely as popular as West, Ward, Romero and Newmar. More so in fact when it came to the villains because Penguin was SO popular on that show that they always had a script written for Meredith should he happen to be available to do an episode;

'He was so popular a villain in the TV-series the producers always had a “Penguin” script ready in case Meredith would like to appear as a guest star.'

http://www.66batmania.com/bios/villains/the-penguin/

Try putting that Penguin in a movie now, or even make a Batman movie like that and see how it fares...

A Penguin like what? Like the campy show? Don't be absurd. I never said the campy versions were suited to today's movies. The show itself is a huge part of what made Batman and his villain so well known and loved to the public. Penguin was the most popular villain on that series.

Manu Bennet got similar praise for Arrow and you're intentionally exaggerating Penguin there because this is pretty much the only piece of Penguin relevance you can cling on to.

Did he now. Can you show some level of praise like this for him from a source like Wall Street Journal;

'Robin Lord Taylor steals the show, with a passionate performance as Oswald Cobblepot'

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/09/22/robin-lord-taylor-gotham-penguin/

 

[Lantern Venom]

Indeed. I'd say it's more about the actor than the part. It cuts both ways because the same could be certainly said about Manu Bennet.

Outside of television the point still stands. Slade is a more popular and interesting character than El Penguino. Even at the conceptual level the animal Cobblepot is named after is lame and non-threatening.

Part of Penguin's character that hasn't seen much adaptation is his surprising physical skills. While I don't know about the Gotham show, neither the cheesy 60s Batman show or Burton's Penguin suggested that Cobblepot, despite his appearance, Penguin is well versed in hand-to-hand combat. While he isn't on the level of Bats or Slade, he can be slick and opportunistic.

I remember a Batman story from the 90s where Penguin flipped Bats with a judo throw and Batman thought to himself, "I keep forgetting how fit he keeps himself." This is from an E-1 story, but it shows that deceptively capable side of Penguin:

 

[The Joker]

I remember a Batman story from the 90s where Penguin flipped Bats with a judo throw and Batman thought to himself, "I keep forgetting how fit he keeps himself."

 

[Omegabat]

Edit:double post

 

[Astro13Zombie]

 

[regwec]

The Joker is the "anti-Batman", Ra's al Ghul is the "anti-Batman", Jason Todd is the "anti-Batman", Man Bat is the "anti-Batman", Catwoman is the "anti-Batman", Bane is the "anti-Batman", the Talons of the Court of Owls are "anti-Batmen" and, yes, The Penguin is the "anti-Batman". All moderately successful villains are comparable and form some kind of contrast with the hero. To try and to make that trait literal and definitive is boring and unimaginative. c/f Bizarro.

 

[Omegabat]

You're going to have to copy and paste the part you mean because I don't see what you're referring to in that link.

Did he renege on what he said? Did he say he was exploring Slade as an anti-Batman? No. He just said there's some similarities to him and Batman, but nowhere did he say he's making Slade the next anti-Batman. He said the opposite. He said he's not because he's not getting to do any Batman stories.



If a company who is in charge tells the writers they want to go in a certain direction with a character, they do it, or they get another writer who does.

You are the one who brought this point up, so if the proof is so easily accessible then post a link to where this was said.



Wrong again. You say I'm lying. With the heroes gone, Penguin becomes mayor of Gotham City, and divides the city up to different Arkham inmates. Scarecrow, hoping to control Gotham, goes to see Mr. Freeze, The Riddler, Killer Croc and Poison Ivy to let them know that a war with Blackgate Prison is coming and to gain their support. Through his conversations with each, Scarecrow learns that Bane may be the cause of the Blackgate uprising, and will be their leader in the impending war, hoping to use the Talons that were stored at Blackgate on ice.[24] Bane, having escaped Peña Dura Prison in Santa Prisca, travels to Gotham hoping to control it as well, and orchestrates the release of Blackgate's prisoners during the Crime Syndicate's broadcast to the world. Bane enters Blackgate to join the prisoners there, where he comes across where the Talons are stored, hoping to make them in to his weapons. Scarecrow approaches Professor Pyg and Penguin to see if they will support him. Penguin has already planned for the impending war, by blowing up the bridges giving access to Gotham City. The attack on the city begins, with Bane's men attacking the Gotham City Police Department. Scarecrow and Man-Bat attempt to steal the frozen Talons from Blackgate while Penguin is having a meeting with Bane, though Bane arrives at Blackgate as the Man-Bats are attempting to transport the Talons to Mr. Freeze, able to keep one from leaving. The Man-Bats are able to bring the remaining Talons to Mr. Freeze, while Bane retrieves Emperor Penguin for the Penguin as part of their agreement. When he brings him to the Penguin, the Penguin tells him that the Arkham fighters are not scared of Bane, as he does not instill fear as Batman did. Realizing this, Bane constructs a batsuit for himself and sets his sights on retrieving the Talons. Bane wakes up the Talon William Cobb and takes him through Gotham where he fights members of Arkham Asylum. Bane begins recruiting Gotham citizens to his side, offering his base at Wayne Tower as a haven to the people to escape the rule of the Arkham inmates. He tells Cobb his plan to turn the city over to the Court, in exchange for use of Talons at his disposal to be powered by his Venom. Elsewhere, Scarecrow begins waking the Talons in his possession, having doused them with his fear gas and using Mad Hatter's mind-control technology in their helmets to control them. The Talons attack Bane's men, and eventually set their target on Bane. Bane, with the help of Cobb, is able to injure the Talons enough to activate their regenerative powers to remove the mind-control technology. At Arkham Asylum, Scarecrow senses he has lost the Talons and turns to his next plan, giving the other Arkhamites a small dose of Bane's Venom to temporarily transform them.The Venom-induced Arkham villains attack Bane and the Talons at Blackgate. They bring Bane back to Arkham Asylum, where Bane begins to defeat them as their Venom wears off. Penguin arrives to congratulate Bane, and offers to exchange his help for the Arkhamites. Bane takes the offer, keeping Scarecrow however, to hang between two buildings and declares that Gotham City is finally his. Following the defeat of the Crime Syndicate, Batman eventually returns to Gotham, delivers Scarecrow to the Gotham City Police Department, and is able to defeat Bane and his Talons. With Bane locked up in Arkham Asylum under heavy guard, Bruce Wayne and Commissioner Gordon work to rebuild Gotham City.

Penguin ruled Gotham. Penguin divided up the city. Penguin cut off the city by blowing the bridges. Penguin is the one Bane went to for support. Yeah Penguin went down in the end, as villains do, but he was boss man here.



You clearly have not read many Penguin stories then. Take NML, he was ruler of a huge chunk of Gotham, he was holding barbaric fights for entertainment, he went to turf wars with Two Face, he made deals with Lex Luthor etc. He was not just sitting in his club doing nothing.



I think you missed a few on Pengy's side, surprise surprise;

Batman Unlimited: Animal Instincts
Batman: The Brave and the Bold
Lego Batman Video Game
Lego Batman Video Game 2
Batman Arkham Origins: Blackgate
Batman Telltale Game

Still out ranking Slade.



Come again? He's a main villain in all the Arkham Games he appeared in, in The Batman cartoon, the Gotham TV show, Mystery of the Batwoman, and Batman Unlimited Animal Instincts. The only ones he's not a main villain in are the two cameos you listed.



Except Penguin wasn't a throwaway character in Knight or Origins. He was a main villain in both. He had a whole section of the game on the ship in AO, and in Knight he gets a whole story of being the arms dealer to the Knight, and even kidnaps Nightwing.

What did Slade do in these games?



Hang on, how is it bogus just because Bane and Slade didn't exist back then? Should we just ignore the huge impact that show had for the status of Batman just because Slade didn't exist then? Scarecrow and Two Face existed back then, but they didn't get put in the show. You can't ignore Penguin's long prominent history that predates Slade and Bane. Its one of the reasons why Penguin is a bigger more prominent villain than they are.

The show lasted 3 years and had massive impact. Its a cultural icon. Quality not quantity. You walk up to a random person on the street odds are they'll know the Batman TV show more than they'll know Slade or Bane. Meredith was absolutely as popular as West, Ward, Romero and Newmar. More so in fact when it came to the villains because Penguin was SO popular on that show that they always had a script written for Meredith should he happen to be available to do an episode;

'He was so popular a villain in the TV-series the producers always had a “Penguin” script ready in case Meredith would like to appear as a guest star.'

http://www.66batmania.com/bios/villains/the-penguin/



A Penguin like what? Like the campy show? Don't be absurd. I never said the campy versions were suited to today's movies. The show itself is a huge part of what made Batman and his villain so well known and loved to the public. Penguin was the most popular villain on that series.



Did he now. Can you show some level of praise like this for him from a source like Wall Street Journal;

'Robin Lord Taylor steals the show, with a passionate performance as Oswald Cobblepot'

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/09/22/robin-lord-taylor-gotham-penguin/

The entire page is important and yes he's saying that he will write Slade as the anti-Batman, that's literally his entire thought process if you go through that link. But I'll make it easier
What I'm running around enforcing everywhere I can at DC, that Deathstroke is the anti-Batman. from comicbook.com

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/07/22/c...ing-over-deat/

You cant get any more literal than that.

The reason I'm not posting a link is because there are too many, like I said it's a well known story that almost everyone has talked about for years. But common sense can inform you that Jason experiment tanked (until the New-52) despite the company giving it high priority.
But still
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...finite-crisis/
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...an-we-thought/

Your description is copy/pasting from a wiki, Arkham War was a Bane story from start to end, people who have read it know that. There's nothing more to debate on this, Bane ruled Gotham with blessing from the CSA and an army of Talons in a city that was stripped of heroes thanks to the CSA and villains thanks to Bane. Penguin could call himself supreme ruler of the universe for all I care, his purpose was to provide Bane with "support at your disposal" his words, not mine. I literally have no clue how you flipped that entire story to make it about Penguin. That's like saying "For the Man Who Has Everything" was a Jason Todd story, just ridiculous. Yes Penguin was the self proclaimed Mayor in a city overrun by freaks BEFORE Bane came and kicked the crud out of them. Btw he cut off the bridges to trap Bane inside Gotham, plan horribly backfired.

NML isn't a Penguin story and he starred in no memorable arc in that saga. Unless you count getting humiliated by Luthor

Left a few from Slade as well, didn't mention DC Universe Online or AK BlackGate which feature him too, I would have mentioned Tell Tale had we been debating 5 months from now. An unrecognizable cameo in an incomplete game doesn't register on my radar currently. Will give you Animal Instincts though.Still doesn't mean anything, Slade's still more exposed in more diverse material and as a more prominent character in said material. Penguin is getting his exposure by riding off Batman's coattails, he's barely a thing in most of those adaptations, Slade atleast is the main villain in many of them, including Batman material. On the comic front Slade has a bi-weekly series and has had an ongoing series for almost 5 years.

Penguin was a main villain in Origins and Knight we must have played a different game because I'm pretty sure that Joker & Bane were the villains in origins and Jason Todd & Scarecrow in Knight. On of the biggest complaints against Knight was that it did nothing for the villain team up idea that it flouted in the promotional material and his entire role in Origins was to get interrogated by Batman. Are you joking? no seriously because this goes from reaching to outright lying.

Slade gave us what is considered to be the best boss fight in the series, only challenged by Mr Freeze in AC and he was a playable character, can Cobblepot boast of either? I think not.

Yes a direct comparison doesn't work, are you now going to claim that Penguin is a bigger character than Harley Quinn because he showed up in the 60's show? are you going to claim that he's a bigger Bat villain than Ra's? because that's what this is all about, the show's fame and status and what it did for Batman is utterly irrelevant to the debate at hand. Nobody is flocking to put Penguin in a movie now, the show may have played a hand in getting Penguin the villain spot in Returns and making him a recurring villain (neither of which I denied) but that's where it's influence on him ended. It doesn't make him a priority character at DC now, Deathstroke on the other hand IS a priority character, almost every single major media appearance mentioned for him goes from 2008 and onwards. He's gotten an incredible amount of exposure in a very short time, he was even in TDK toy line for no reason lol. He's getting priority treatment, Penguin on the other hand clings along like a wart because he's part of a highly lucrative franchise that doesn't owe him anything. One of Arrow's show runners confirmed that they cant use Deathstroke currently because he's tied to another project, which could be anything from a Titans show to a Batman movie or a Suicide Squad movie. Slade's profile is increasing at astronomic pace, Cobblepot is struggling to retain relevance.

What makes WSJ such a great source? some critic thinks he's the best? good for him, there are critics who said plenty of good things for BvS. People have their opinions. Unless you can produce some award or tangible recognition for Gotham's Penguin then your point is moot. As it is he's a tumblr love child due to "Nygmobblepot" who's been in the same tired act since season 1 and if this continues then I bet fans will get sick of him. People got sick of Barrowman on Arrow despite showering him with praise and Cobblepot is following a similar trajectory, get ready for another season of Cobblepot vs Mooney, Ngmobblepot and maybe some new bully(probably a COO character), rinse and repeat.

 

[Omegabat]

The Joker is the "anti-Batman", Ra's al Ghul is the "anti-Batman", Jason Todd is the "anti-Batman", Man Bat is the "anti-Batman", Catwoman is the "anti-Batman", Bane is the "anti-Batman", the Talons of the Court of Owls are "anti-Batmen" and, yes, The Penguin is the "anti-Batman". All moderately successful villains are comparable and form some kind of contrast with the hero. To try and to make that trait literal and definitive is boring and unimaginative. c/f Bizarro.

That applies more to Penguin than anyone else from Batman rogues, what is he apart from an aborted Bruce Wayne?
Deathstroke, Man-Bat etc have more dimensions to them than just being a contrast to Batman.

Besides what is boring to you is not boring to someone else. Slade boasts of a superior visual, power set, personality, back story. He can offer a conflict to Batman on virtual every level, from physical to mental to intellectual. Penguin cant even provide even 10% of what Slade does. Slade can even the master mind criminal easily if you've watched Teen Titans animated series.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

If Affleck directs, I, personally, would love to see a more gritty yet fantastical feel. Something along the lines of the Nolan films, "Heat" and Affleck's "The Town" but with elements of the comics.

For the villains, I would have it be a mob war between The Penguin, The Ventriloquist and Scarface and Black Mask and the Falcone family. I'd bring in Oracle too and Nightwing to help Batman combat it as well. 2 and half hour epic Batman movie.

Or Red Hood, flashbacks of the Joker, and Riddler as the main villain.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Be great to see Hush on film. I'd also want to see Bane, Poison Ivy, and Catwoman again but depicted closer to the comics.

 

[terry78]

You can have some low key villains but I would stick maybe like one spectacle based guy in there just for kicks. Riddler would probably work for what Affleck does direction wise. Somebody in the vein of the killer from Seven.

 

[Greens]

what is he apart from an aborted Bruce Wayne?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Oswald thought he was their number one son, but they treated him like number two...

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Now I kind of want Priest to write a story where Deathstroke embarrasses Cobblepot so I can post it here.

 

[The Joker]

The Joker is the "anti-Batman", Ra's al Ghul is the "anti-Batman", Jason Todd is the "anti-Batman", Man Bat is the "anti-Batman", Catwoman is the "anti-Batman", Bane is the "anti-Batman", the Talons of the Court of Owls are "anti-Batmen" and, yes, The Penguin is the "anti-Batman". All moderately successful villains are comparable and form some kind of contrast with the hero. To try and to make that trait literal and definitive is boring and unimaginative. c/f Bizarro.

The entire page is important and yes he's saying that he will write Slade as the anti-Batman, that's literally his entire thought process if you go through that link. But I'll make it easier
What I'm running around enforcing everywhere I can at DC, that Deathstroke is the anti-Batman. from comicbook.com

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/07/22/c...ing-over-deat/

Your link doesn't work.

That is not what he was saying in the other link you posted. The one I posted, the interview with him, is he flat out said he is not going to be doing it because he is not going to be using Batman at all, so he's not exploring the anti-Batman angle.

The reason I'm not posting a link is because there are too many, like I said it's a well known story that almost everyone has talked about for years. But common sense can inform you that Jason experiment tanked (until the New-52) despite the company giving it high priority.

Are you kidding me lol. You're spoiled for choice with links that's why you're not posting any? Is it that hard to pick one and post it?

I've given you several links to back up what I'm saying. You trying to tell me there's too many to choose from? Pull the other one, man, it rings.

But still
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...finite-crisis/
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...an-we-thought/

These don't work either. Serious question; are you sure you know how to paste links?

Your description is copy/pasting from a wiki, Arkham War was a Bane story from start to end, people who have read it know that. There's nothing more to debate on this, Bane ruled Gotham with blessing from the CSA and an army of Talons in a city that was stripped of heroes thanks to the CSA and villains thanks to Bane. Penguin could call himself supreme ruler of the universe for all I care, his purpose was to provide Bane with "support at your disposal" his words, not mine. I literally have no clue how you flipped that entire story to make it about Penguin. That's like saying "For the Man Who Has Everything" was a Jason Todd story, just ridiculous. Yes Penguin was the self proclaimed Mayor in a city overrun by freaks BEFORE Bane came and kicked the crud out of them. Btw he cut off the bridges to trap Bane inside Gotham, plan horribly backfired.

Hold your horses, I never called the story a Penguin story, I said Penguin was the king bad who ruled the city in the story. That doesn't make it a Penguin centric story just because he was the main threat in it. Penguin ruled the city, Penguin divided up the Arkham inmates over Gotham, Penguin blew the bridges to cut off the city, Penguin is the one Bane went to for help, Bane is the one running around playing fetch for Cobblepot etc.

The fact that Penguin ultimately failed at the end, as villains usually do, doesn't change the fact he was the main baddie.

NML isn't a Penguin story and he starred in no memorable arc in that saga. Unless you count getting humiliated by Luthor

NML isn't a Joker, Two Face, Bane, Ivy, Scarecrow story either. But they all had large roles in it like Penguin. It was an ensemble story with many characters getting the limelight and playing significant roles in it, and Penguin was one of the biggest.

So what, he got humiliated by Luthor. Joker got humiliated by Mercy in it. Big deal.

Left a few from Slade as well, didn't mention DC Universe Online or AK BlackGate which feature him too, I would have mentioned Tell Tale had we been debating 5 months from now. An unrecognizable cameo in an incomplete game doesn't register on my radar currently. Will give you Animal Instincts though.Still doesn't mean anything, Slade's still more exposed in more diverse material and as a more prominent character in said material. Penguin is getting his exposure by riding off Batman's coattails, he's barely a thing in most of those adaptations, Slade atleast is the main villain in many of them, including Batman material. On the comic front Slade has a bi-weekly series and has had an ongoing series for almost 5 years.

Penguin is still ahead in the character exposure material. Saying Penguin is riding off Batman's coattails like that's a bad thing. He's a Batman villain. Always has been. Why wouldn't he be riding on Batman's coattails. Joker rides on Batman's coattails because he's a Batman villain. That's how they work best.

Penguin was a main villain in Origins and Knight we must have played a different game because I'm pretty sure that Joker & Bane were the villains in origins and Jason Todd & Scarecrow in Knight. On of the biggest complaints against Knight was that it did nothing for the villain team up idea that it flouted in the promotional material and his entire role in Origins was to get interrogated by Batman. Are you joking? no seriously because this goes from reaching to outright lying.

That's like saying Hugo Strange was the main villain in Arkham City despite the fact the character is on screen for less than 5 minutes. Yes, the ultimate goal in Origins was to get to Penguin for information, but his role in the game was big, bigger than Deathstroke's, or any of the other assassins save for Bane.

Slade gave us what is considered to be the best boss fight in the series, only challenged by Mr Freeze in AC and he was a playable character, can Cobblepot boast of either? I think not.

A boss fight. That's the best you can give to good character exposure? Fisticuffs. Yeah I'll take seeing Penguin's material as a power hungry, vain glorious, barbaraic, money hungry, ruthless, devious crime lord, over trading some punches with Slade for a single fight.

Yes a direct comparison doesn't work, are you now going to claim that Penguin is a bigger character than Harley Quinn because he showed up in the 60's show? are you going to claim that he's a bigger Bat villain than Ra's? because that's what this is all about, the show's fame and status and what it did for Batman is utterly irrelevant to the debate at hand. Nobody is flocking to put Penguin in a movie now, the show may have played a hand in getting Penguin the villain spot in Returns and making him a recurring villain (neither of which I denied) but that's where it's influence on him ended. It doesn't make him a priority character at DC now, Deathstroke on the other hand IS a priority character, almost every single major media appearance mentioned for him goes from 2008 and onwards. He's gotten an incredible amount of exposure in a very short time, he was even in TDK toy line for no reason lol. He's getting priority treatment, Penguin on the other hand clings along like a wart because he's part of a highly lucrative franchise that doesn't owe him anything. One of Arrow's show runners confirmed that they cant use Deathstroke currently because he's tied to another project, which could be anything from a Titans show to a Batman movie or a Suicide Squad movie. Slade's profile is increasing at astronomic pace, Cobblepot is struggling to retain relevance.

Nobody is flocking to put Penguin in a movie now? There's a ton of insanely popular villains that are not being put in a movie right now. The Batman solo is not even in production yet. Is Bane, Two Face, Riddler, Scarecrow lame irrelevant villains if the first Batman solo with Affleck doesn't have them in it?

Your argument is a strawman.

You keep crowing about Arrow, and Slade's involvement in it. That will never ever top Penguin's long running and continued main character exposure as a villain in Gotham, not to mention the levels of praise he gets as one of the shows best highlights. And you think Penguin is struggling to retain relevance, when he is still a major feature in everything from TV shows to video games.

What makes WSJ such a great source? some critic thinks he's the best? good for him, there are critics who said plenty of good things for BvS. People have their opinions. Unless you can produce some award or tangible recognition for Gotham's Penguin then your point is moot. As it is he's a tumblr love child due to "Nygmobblepot" who's been in the same tired act since season 1 and if this continues then I bet fans will get sick of him. People got sick of Barrowman on Arrow despite showering him with praise and Cobblepot is following a similar trajectory, get ready for another season of Cobblepot vs Mooney, Ngmobblepot and maybe some new bully(probably a COO character), rinse and repeat.

Wait a character has to have won awards for their greatness to be validated? Ignore all the mountains of praise they get, it's an award or it doesn't count.

You know it isn't April Fools Day today right?

 

[Rorschach2012]

Deathstroke is one of the best DC characters but him as the main villain of a Batman movie? **** no. He's a DCU villain. Specifically Titans and Green Arrow. Not a Batman villain. Penguin however is solely a Batman villain, and would be far more welcome in a Batman movie.

I want Deathstroke in the DCEU but introduce him in a Justice League movie or Titans


Penguin is infinitely more important to Batman's history than Deathstroke ever will be

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Looks like the Terminator beat out Happy Feet.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Am I the only person that thinks The Penguin is the lamest villain in Batman's major Rogues?

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Am I the only person that thinks The Penguin is the lamest villain in Batman's major Rogues?

No, you aren't. Penguin is better utilized as an organized crime boss who's a CI for Batman. He's just not a credible threat to Batman post Year One.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I dont see a problem having Penguin and Slade in the same movie. They would play well off each other. Even going so far as to be an interesting potential love triangle of sorts. Both Slade and Batman using/working with Penguin to extort or discern information about one another. Could be really cool imo.

 

[Rorschach2012]

That's funny we were just discussing the pros and cons of Deathstroke being the main villain! I'm still not that cool with it. Id rather he be the villain of a Titans or Green Arrow movie.

I wanted this movie to be either Arkham Asylum or Under the Red Hood

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Deathstroke? Why not.

 

[Wildcard]

The only problem I have with Deathstroke as a Batman villain is that technically, with the level he's on, DS should be able to easily hand Batman his ass every single time.

 

[yllum]

do you guys think we will be seeing jason todd's red hood? (previously heavy rumoured)

with death stroke being the main villain..my chance of seeing a live action " under the red hood" is gone