Who's stronger? Krillin or Tien?

[Gimili]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Gt is singular by itself. True its not written by toriyama (character designs were done by him) but there is only ONE version of it. DBZ anime is based on the original manga. In that case the manga MUST be taken over the anime other wise you might as well treat all the changes in the Dub as canon as well.

Well, by that logic, GT doesn't even have a manga. Since the mangas, are supposedly the one, true story, if the anime doesn't count, neither does the manga.

As for the dub, I think that there's a major difference between making changes like Vegeta turning SSJ and adding stuff in.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by Dark Carnage
Can the Cell incident even be counted?

If I remember correctly, the Tri Beam isn't any indication of power because it uses a persons life force rather than their ki. If Krillin knew how to use it, he could have done the same.

Right?

I've checked Blackgoku.com. It doesn't say anything about that. I never ever heard of it.

But really, how could your life force hurt something you're physically no match for.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by jonty30
Saying that because Tien is stronger than Krillin because Tien could hold knock down Cell in his second state whereas Krillin couldn't do that, one must also conclude that Tien was stronger than Piccolo-Kami. Piccolo-Kami was as strong as Cell in his first form, but weaker than Cell in his second form. I don't think anybody would think that, but based on the show that's what happened.

What does the official manga have to say?

Not exactly. Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon is more than twice as powerful as himself, so he might have done some damage to Second Form Cell in the unlikely event he could connect with it. Cell would have recovered due to his regeneration, of course.

Keeping cell from getting out that hole by blasting him doesn't prove a thing

Given that #16's fists couldn't even do that, I'm afraid it does.

 

[War Lord]

Not necessarily, it's a good bet that one reason why Tien could knock down Cell is because Cell couldn't get a good footing where he was, whereas everybody else had to tackle Cell when he was ready for them. Are you really going to tell me that Tien was stronger than Vegeta when he got his ass handed to him by Android #18?

 

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Gimili
, if the anime doesn't count, neither does the manga.
.

Does that even make any sense what so ever?

I stand by what I said

There is only one version of GT so that is fine but there is TWO versions of DBZ the original and the slightly changed for TV anime. The original will always be taken over the anime when it comes to changes, thats just common sense. Otherwise why not use the super heroe TAS in arguments since alot of them episodes basically just adapt stories that were in the comcis anway. But no you never do that you always take the comic story over the TAS version. Same rule applies here.

 

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Gimili
Given that #16's fists couldn't even do that, I'm afraid it does.

I reference my comment about Krillyn and freizas tail and throw in Krillyns destructo disc against Nappa.

So again unless your saying that kryllin was stronger than both Nappa and second form freiza it doesn't mean a thing

Also what is your comment trying to say?

That tien was stronger than 16?? Give me a break

He wasn't hurting Cell, its like when superman gets hit by a missile and goes flying backwards. Is he hurt in anyway? NO

Does him being push back by the force/explosion mean the missle is more powerful than him? NO

 

[anarchistguy]

I've got a book called the "Dragon Ball Encyclopedia" and it has official power levels:

22nd Tenka Ichi Budokai
Kuririn: 150 Tenshinhan: 180

Saiyajin saga
Kuririn: 1770 Tenshinhan: 1830

Namek saga
Kuririn: 13000 Tenshinhan: ?

It doesn't give any power level beyond the Freezer saga.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by jonty30
Not necessarily, it's a good bet that one reason why Tien could knock down Cell is because Cell couldn't get a good footing where he was, whereas everybody else had to tackle Cell when he was ready for them. Are you really going to tell me that Tien was stronger than Vegeta when he got his ass handed to him by Android #18?

Cell was flying up towards Tien and kept getting blasted back. That's not bad footing, my friend.

Also, Tien accidentally blasted Cell away form the hole and into the the higher, smoother ground at one point, yet was still able to
hold Cell at bay until he ran out of energy.

No, I don't think Tien was stronger than SSJ Vegeta. As I said before, the character's biggest attacks are more powerful than the characters themselves. For instance, Vegeta was unable to hurt Perfect Cell with his fists and feet, but his Final Flash was powerful enough to lop off a significant chunk of Cell's body.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Does that even make any sense what so ever?

I stand by what I said

There is only one version of GT so that is fine but there is TWO versions of DBZ the original and the slightly changed for TV anime. The original will always be taken over the anime when it comes to changes, thats just common sense. Otherwise why not use the super heroe TAS in arguments since alot of them episodes basically just adapt stories that were in the comcis anway. But no you never do that you always take the comic story over the TAS version. Same rule applies here.

Your comic continuity vs. TAS argument is flawed. In DC, the original version is not considered canon anymore. The newer version is. I don't have to tell you this, because you already know it.

But the anime was meant to be the same thing as the manga, and both were done by the same guy. So it's more credible than the superhero cartoons, which are their own continuities. Plus, who's to say that if Toriyama went back and did the manga again (although I'm positive he wouldn't), he wouldn't decide to add those changes in.

Like I said before, GT doesn't have a manga, so if only the mangas count, GT is literally nothing in terms of continuity.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by guyverjay
I reference my comment about Krillyn and freizas tail and throw in Krillyns destructo disc against Nappa.

Well, that's true. To Krillin's credit, his Destructo Disc was effective
on both Nappa and Second Form Frieza. Still, a one-handed Tien delivered a blast with the last of his strength that Vegeta said could also have killed Nappa if it had connected.

So again unless your saying that kryllin was stronger than both Nappa and second form freiza it doesn't mean a thing

Yeah, but no ki attack has ever been like a hundred times someone's base strength.

tien was stronger than 16?? Give me a break

No, but his Tri-Beam was.

He wasn't hurting Cell, its like when superman gets hit by a missile and goes flying backwards. Is he hurt in anyway? NO

Bringing up comic books, a completely separate universe, with it's own unique concepts, is not relevent to the issue at hand. In fact,
the exact opposite is true.

 

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Gimili
Your comic continuity vs. TAS argument is flawed. In DC, the original version is not considered canon anymore. The newer version is. I don't have to tell you this, because you already know it.

What the hell has DC got to with it? How about nothing. DC re writind their continuity is irrelevent. The anime did not replace the manga.


But the anime was meant to be the same thing as the manga, and both were done by the same guy.

You obviously don't watch alot of anime. Anime based on manga is indeed (alot of the times) very close but there are ALWAYS little changes here and there. Also if you read any decent toriayama interview he says that he pretty much left the studio to their own devices. He actually used to watch the anime with his son to see how it differed to his manga. Do you really think HE wrote that garlic junior crap? Another shining example of this is torayama refusing to write Bardocks story because it was too sad


So it's more credible than the superhero cartoons, which are their own continuities.

More credible doesn't mean it IS credible. Also if you actually watch The Iron man and fantasic four 90's TAS 's. All the stories are lifted from the comics but slightly tweaked.

Plus, who's to say that if Toriyama went back and did the manga again (although I'm positive he wouldn't), he wouldn't decide to add those changes in.

Whose to say torayama wouldn't have thrown himself off a bridge? You know what my statement and yours above have in common? Its total irrelevence

Like I said before, GT doesn't have a manga, so if only the mangas count, GT is literally nothing in terms of continuity.

Even if you want to believe that, it still doesn't help your case in this thread so move on to something that actually relevent

 

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Gimili
Well, that's true. To Krillin's credit, his Destructo Disc was effective
on both Nappa and Second Form Frieza. Still, a one-handed Tien delivered a blast with the last of his strength that Vegeta said could also have killed Nappa if it had connected.


And Krillyns destructo disc would have killed nappa had he let it hit him. So big deal. BTW Tiens attack it DID connect and it did nothing but piss Nappa off. Tien gave up all his life energy and died for nothing and Vegeta said NO such thing. I don't where you got that from


Yeah, but no ki attack has ever been like a hundred times someone's base strength.

and there still isn't



No, but his Tri-Beam was.


LOL riiiiighhhhhhhhtttttttttt. Tiens tribeam was over approx 20 million bwhahahhahahaaa. So Tiens tribeam could have killed all the andriods, the sayans and the super namek had he shot it at one of them? Bwhahahahahhahahahahahhaa

Bringing up comic books, a completely separate universe, with it's own unique concepts, is not relevent to the issue at hand. In fact,
the exact opposite is true.

After that last statement I'm not going to bother to continue

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by guyverjay
What the hell has DC got to with it? How about nothing. DC re writind their continuity is irrelevent. The anime did not replace the manga.

Just pointing out that you really can't use the superhero cartoons as proof in the "only the original counts" argument.

You obviously don't watch alot of anime. Anime based on manga is indeed (alot of the times) very close but there are ALWAYS little changes here and there. Also if you read any decent toriayama interview he says that he pretty much left the studio to their own devices. He actually used to watch the anime with his son to see how it differed to his manga. Do you really think HE wrote that garlic junior crap? Another shining example of this is torayama refusing to write Bardocks story because it was too sad

I didn't know that Toriyama left the studio to their own devices. I'll
have to look for a Toriyama interview and get back to you on this.

More credible doesn't mean it IS credible. Also if you actually watch The Iron man and fantasic four 90's TAS 's. All the stories are lifted from the comics but slightly tweaked.

Slightly tweaked? I seem to recall on animated FF that rather than
Dr. Doom losing the Silver Surfer's powers to Galactus' barrier, Galactus himself comes and takes them away.

Whose to say torayama wouldn't have thrown himself off a bridge? You know what my statement and yours above have in common? Its total irrelevence

Not exactly. Given that cared too little about the liberties the movie guys took to actually oversee every movie (as evidenced by
the fact that he was clueless when Brolli was brought up in an interview), there's an excellent chance he might have made these
changes.

Even if you want to believe that, it still doesn't help your case in this thread so move on to something that actually relevent

Well, you're the one who brought it up.

And Krillyns destructo disc would have killed nappa had he let it hit him.

I know that. Even a glancing hit produced a cut.

Tiens attack it DID connect and it did nothing but piss Nappa off. Tien gave up all his life energy and died for nothing and Vegeta said NO such thing. I don't where you got that from

Nappa mostly dodged the attack, not completely but mostly. And Vegeta did say that a square hit would have killed Nappa. And it wasn't even the Tri-Beam.

and there still isn't

Agreed.

LOL riiiiighhhhhhhhtttttttttt. Tiens tribeam was over approx 20 million bwhahahhahahaaa. So Tiens tribeam could have killed all the andriods, the sayans and the super namek had he shot it at one of them? Bwhahahahahhahahahahahhaa

Cell smiles at #16's punches; The Tri-Beam repeatedly pushes Cell
back a good distance. I ask you, what's more impressive?

After that last statement I'm not going to bother to continue

The anime told the very same story as the manga. Most of the superhero cartoons did not. That's what I meant. Not anything like, "the anime counts and the TASes don't just 'cause."

You can say that you won't come back if you want, but I have my doubts. You've said that before and continued long afterwards.

 

[Tony Montana 04]

who care's evryone has surpased there power level there both s**t lets have some better threads in the futer MATE!

 

[xScarletSpiderx]

When they held the first Tenkaichi Budokai during the Buu saga, when Marron (Krillin's daughter) saw Krillin fight she asked Yamcha if her daddy was the strongest fighter. Yamcha promptly agreed and then said something to the side that he was the strongest of the Human warriors. And this scene was also stated in the Japanese version of this episode that I had long before the DVD's came out.

So, I believe it is Krillin.

 

[Gimili]

And we all know that Yamcha is the wisest character on the show .

 

[XSpidercideX]

Originally posted by Gimili
And we all know that Yamcha is the wisest character on the show .

LOL, good point...

 

[xScarletSpiderx]

Doesn't particualrly matter if Yamcha is the wisest, but he knows how to sense ki so he should be able to tell whether or not Krillin is the most powerful of the humans.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by xScarletSpiderx
Doesn't particualrly matter if Yamcha is the wisest, but he knows how to sense ki so he should be able to tell whether or not Krillin is the most powerful of the humans.

Naw, sensing ki hasn't proven to be a terribly accurate way of telling how powerful somebody is. After all, when Frieza entered his final form, even Piccolo couldn't tell that Frieza wasn't even at
half power.

 

[xScarletSpiderx]

While that is true, I think Yamcha stating that was more or less a plug for Akira Toriyama to update the readers I think.

Because after Trunks defeating Frieza, he decided to drop the idea of keeping track of power levels. He felt keeping track of power levels was too much of a hassle and also took away from the story.

 

[Gimili]

If so, Akira Toriyama was losing track of what He'd wrote. After all,
Tien's feats had constantly been superior to Krillin's. In the Buu saga, Tien fares better against Super Buu with Piccolo and Gotenks absorbed than Krillin did against Super Buu with nobody absorbed.

It's true that there are no official power levels after Trunks' arrival
on Earth, but that doesn't mean Toriyama gave up the DBZ power
chain. It is not as though it's not clear that SSJ3 Goku and Fat Buu
were more powerful than Vegeta with his Babidi power-up.

 

[Vegeta #1]

In my opinion Tien is by far stronger. Not training weakens a fighter(like Gohan). Tien also proves his strength by deflecting a blast from Super Buu(W/SS3 Gotenks,and Piccolo),Goku could'nt even beat him as an SS3,this proves that Super Buu was very strong and for Tien it was a great feat to do this(especially considering he is a Human).One more thing Tien does'nt have heart some say,wrong Tien fought Burter and Jeice,he also fought Cell(second Form) and even took on the very powerful Super Buu.

 

[Vegeta #1]

When they held the first Tenkaichi Budokai during the Buu saga, when Marron (Krillin's daughter) saw Krillin fight she asked Yamcha if her daddy was the strongest fighter. Yamcha promptly agreed and then said something to the side that he was the strongest of the Human warriors. And this scene was also stated in the Japanese version of this episode that I had long before the DVD's came out.

So, I believe it is Krillin.

Yamcha only said this to cheer Marron up.

 

[Gotenks]

In my opinion Tien is by far stronger. Not training weakens a fighter(like Gohan). Tien also proves his strength by deflecting a blast from Super Buu(W/SS3 Gotenks,and Piccolo),Goku could'nt even beat him as an SS3,this proves that Super Buu was very strong and for Tien it was a great feat to do this(especially considering he is a Human).One more thing Tien does'nt have heart some say,wrong Tien fought Burter and Jeice,he also fought Cell(second Form) and even took on the very powerful Super Buu.

Dude you are quoting people from two years ago. One that fight with Burter and Jeice wasn't canon and Him holding off cell doesnt count because he knows if it was an acutal fight he would lose. Yeah he took on Super Buu. How brave of him too bad it only took one kick for Super Buu to defeat him. Yamcha was being serious.

 

[Warhammer]

Why has this old ass thread been bumped?