Superman Returns Who's Your Daddy? The Ultimate Jason Poll [Place your bets]

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Who is Jason's biological father?

  • Richard White

  • Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El

  • Neither


Results are only viewable after voting.
charl_huntress said:
I don't see how killing him makes it harder for Clark to deal with Jason.

Because Jason would always have an idealistic vision of Richard, one which Clark would be constantly compared with in his mind. It's not about Clark but Jason.


I can't see a man who has been living with a woman and her son, and that son is in effect his son as well, walking away. Matter of fact, that would make Lois look really bad.

I strongly disagree. If he knew that Lois was pregnant when he got involved with her and he takes responsibility for another man's son then he has a big heart.

If he knew that Jason's dad came back, that Jason's dad was a good man AND Lois was still in love with him, to stand in the way of that would be selfish. He is shown not to be a selfish man.

Lois leaving him would make her look bad. However, Richard initiating the process by coming to the realization that he can't stand in the way of Superman, Jason and Lois, and Lois realizing it isn't fair to Richard to expect him to be second best in her life is real.

Killing him is too easy, a pat solution without any consequences for Lois and Superman, but major ones for Jason.

This man has been there for her and her son, but she's going to drop him because she really loves Superman and it's unfair to Richard.

Exactly, which is why Richard has to be the one to force the issue not Lois or Superman.

than the blended family. I simply don't like that idea.

I understand but I don't agree.
 
jensmith said:
Because Jason would always have an idealistic vision of Richard, one which Clark would be constantly compared with in his mind. It's not about Clark but Jason.

This would happen anyway whether Richard was dead or alive.

jensmith said:
I strongly disagree. If he knew that Lois was pregnant when he got involved with her and he takes responsibility for another man's son then he has a big heart.

If he knew that Jason's dad came back, that Jason's dad was a good man AND Lois was still in love with him, to stand in the way of that would be selfish. He is shown not to be a selfish man.

This is supposing that he knew she was preggers when he got with her, and that could be possible. Though, I just can't see a man doing that, emphasis on the man part. Yes, it would be a completely unselfish act, but I just can't see it. It could play for some high drama, but it's a little too steep for me:)

jensmith said:
Lois leaving him would make her look bad. However, Richard initiating the process by coming to the realization that he can't stand in the way of Superman, Jason and Lois, and Lois realizing it isn't fair to Richard to expect him to be second best in her life is real.

Killing him is too easy, a pat solution without any consequences for anybody.

LOL...the kid is enough of a twist. I'd could deal with the easy and pat solution of Richard dying heroically to save Lois and Jason. I could deal with the easy and pat talk that he might have with his 'son' just before his death. I could deal with all those easy and pat solutions, but him walking away...again too steep for me and IMO to steep for a Superman movie.

Here's another thing, jen. How is Richard supposed to know that he should walk away...UNLESS...Lois herself is doing some things she shouldn't be doing with Superman or Clark? For him to come to the realization that Lois is still in love with Superman/Clark, what type of clues is she going to have to give off for him to make the decision that it's better for him to walk away from her and Jason?
 
charl_huntress said:
This would happen anyway whether Richard was dead or alive.

No it wouldn't. If Richard lives then Jason's relationship with him continues. Jason would fight with Richard, love Richard, etc, just as he would with Clark. His relationship wouldn't be prematurally cut off at the age of 5 when a parent is still looked upon as almost perfect.

Yes, it would be a completely unselfish act, but I just can't see it. I could play for some high drama, but it's a little too steep for me

I guess I could because I would die for my kids. When you love a child you would do things you never thought possible.




him walking away...again too steep for me and IMO to steep for a Superman movie.

I disagree. I think it allows Richard not only a heroic, but kind, exit. He loves Jason enough to step aside for his real father, yet he knows he'll always be a part of Jason's life and is allowed to live to see him grow to be a man.
 
charl_huntress said:
For him to come to the realization that Lois is still in love with Superman/Clark, what type of clues is she going to have to give off for him to make the decision that it's better for him to walk away from her and Jason?

The clues are scattered through the novel.

He asks her point blank if she is in love with Superman, she lies and says 'no'.

Her computer password and his reaction when Clark tells him to try it.

She makes him turn the Seaplane around, she jumps in to save Superman.

He watches her beg Superman not to leave, that he'll die. He has to see the farewell moment between the two before Superman goes off to face certain doom.

He takes her to the hospital to see a dying Superman.

At one point he says "I can see why you're...." and doesn't complete the sentence.

He knows she loves Superman.

If he knows Jason isn't his child, sees that Lois and SUperman still love each other. It's then a simple matter, 2 + 2 = 4. That is enough for him to be suspicious and ask (heck he's in the plane when Jason finds Superman).

Lois doesn't have to chase Superman for Richard to know she still loves him. He knows Lois has integrity and would never walk away from him no matter how much she loves Superman.

Why would Richard stand in the way of his son's destiny, not allow him to grow up with his biological father who can guide him in ways Richard never could?
 
jensmith said:
No it wouldn't. If Richard lives then Jason's relationship with him continues. Jason would fight with Richard, love Richard, etc, just as he would with Clark. His relationship wouldn't be prematurally cut off at the age of 5 when a parent is still looked upon as almost perfect.

I disagree with this because a comparison is natural. It would probably be more prevalent if Richard was alive than if he was dead. Though, I do see what you are saying.

jensmith said:
I disagree. I think it allows Richard not only a heroic, but kind, exit. He loves Jason enough to step aside for his real father, yet he knows he'll always be a part of Jason's life and is allowed to live to see him grow to be a man.

Did you read the last part of my previous post? How is he supposed to know that he should walk away from Jason and Lois unless she or Superman are making it really apparent that something is going on. I mean even if she just starts distancing herself from Richard that's still a shallow way for her to behave.

edit: I see you did :)

jensmith said:
The clues are scattered through the novel. He asks her if she is in love with Superman, she lies and says 'no'. She makes him turn the Seaplane around, she jumps in to save him.

Yeah, but so does everyone else in the world :) Still though, she is his fiancee. He's just going to walk away? IMO, Lois would have to start demonstrating more than a need to save the MOS in the next movies. There would have to be some heavy duty, I don't think this is going to work scenes for Richard to see, and if all the onus is put on Richard...Lois just gets off scott-free.
 
I think there is a bit of a disconnect between hardcore fans and casual filmgoers. Hardcore fans want Superman/Lois to be together no matter what. A casual filmgoer might be a little turned off that she's flirting with Superman while engaged to a guy who dated her when she had another man's child.

Further, I still don't understand why she isn't obliged to tell Richard that Jason's biological father is Superman? This isn't some guy off the street. He's raised Jason for 5 years.
 
charl_huntress said:
I disagree with this because a comparison is natural. It would probably be more prevalent if Richard was alive than if he was dead. Though, I do see what you are saying.

Clark looks better if Richard lives because who can compare with Superman? ;)




Yeah, but so does everyone else in the world :) Still though, she is his fiancee. He's just going to walk away?

This is what would make Richard a selfless hero, one doesn't need superpowers to be one. ;)


onus is put on Richard...Lois just gets off scott-free.

If he dies everybody gets off scott-free. If Richard steps aside he'll be a part of their lives which makes the relationships more complex.

LOL! I think we're going to have to agree to disagree and see what happens in a couple weeks!
 
tallsy_1 said:
Further, I still don't understand why she isn't obliged to tell Richard that Jason's biological father is Superman? This isn't some guy off the street. He's raised Jason for 5 years.

I don't see why she is obligated to tell him anything especially if she started dating him after she was pregnant and he knew about the baby.

MHO, her past is her business. She wasn't cheating on Richard. If he's accepted Jason knowing he isn't the biological father, why does Jason's paternity matter? Richard isn't owed any explanation about something which happened before he met her. If she doesn't want to talk about it, it's his choice to accept it or find somebody else.

It would be a different matter if she tried to pass the child off as his without saying she wasn't sure. However, I would bet that isn't the case.

She's obviously not been completely honest with herself (or him) wrt to her feelings for Superman. It could be it was too painful to discuss with anybody, fiancee or no fiancee. She thought she was never going to see Superman again, why dredge it all up then?

Also, protecting her son trumps any other relationship. Perhaps she felt it better not to say anything for her son's protection?
 
LOL...only a twentysome days left. I'll still be rooting for his timely demise in the next movie :)
 
SUPERMAN isn't the only one Richard's knows Lois has feelings for. He was their When Clark Kent returned to The Daily Planet. He saw Lois was happy to see her friend back in town . He also saw that Clark has feelings for Lois .

While SUPERMAN & Clark Kent were away, Richard was all Lois had. But the minute SUPERMAN/CLARK KENT Returned . Richard saw that Lois had feeling for two men in her life that left her & then returned after 5 years .
 
I don't see why she is obligated to tell him anything especially if she started dating him after she was pregnant and he knew about the baby.

MHO, her past is her business. She wasn't cheating on Richard. If he's accepted Jason knowing he isn't the biological father, why does Jason's paternity matter? Richard isn't owed any explanation about something which happened before he met her. If she doesn't want to talk about it, it's his choice to accept it or find somebody else.

That's fine if Superman had stayed gone. Once, he comes back it's not the past it's the present. Then I think she has the obligation to tell Richard that the biological father has returned, and Richard has the right to know.
 
itd be waaay to big of a coincidence to have the child NOT be superman. itd be on the verge of ridiculousness, quite frankly.born a few months after supermanleft. ok, so lois got knocked up while superman was here, and she was only "with" one person. superman.so theres one of 2 outcomes.

lois is a tramp

or

the kid is supermans. hes a mix of human and kryptontonion, which could be used to explain while hes always sick,. why he can locate superman immeadietly in the ocean when lis cant see him while looking at the same spot.


but richard doesnt seem like the jealous type. i think hes just trying to be understanding. he seems like a good guy, i mean he is helping raise jason even though he isnt her kid AND they seemingly have no clue who his father is, which if chick told me she had a kid n didnt know who the father was, id be outta there in a second.
 
This is the end all be all guys and I am serious WOO HOO. I have figured out who the father is. And i have proof. 2nd paragraph pg 303.

Richard's seaplane banked toward the massive, growing continent. Jason looked down and pointed at the ocean. Mommy. Daddy. There.
The seaplane was flying just above the water. Lois looked but couldnt see anything. "You're sure honey?"
She saw Jason nodding, certain.
She unbuckled her seatbelt and threw the seaplane door open.
"What are you doing?" Richard asked.
She didnt answer, instead she jumped into the water.

It took me 3 times reading this book. Now maybe i am over thinking it. But that looks like Super Vision to me. (EDIT: Looks like someone found it before me lol)
 
Superman's kid. :(
 
AND they seemingly have no clue who his father is, which if chick told me she had a kid n didnt know who the father was, id be outta there in a second.

I'm a little confused by what your saying. Earlier in your post you imply that Lois knows Superman is the father (otherwise, she's a **** which we don't want her to be).

I think, if you look too close, Lois's behavior is going to be a little sketchy no matter how they play it. So it's best not to look too close.
 
DvilDog said:


so what that supermans the dad. better him then richard ( i was refring to the guy doin da frowning)
 
MoreCowbell said:
If Lois does indeed whisper in his ear (while in the hospital, completely out of it) that Jason is he son, odds are he won't remember it. Ignorance is bliss. Lois can get it off her chest, and Superman is clueless as to Jason.

I'm not sure how I want Richard's exit (if he does indeed exit) to be like. I personally have no issue with him being told Lois wants to be with Supes, or with a death. I leave it to Singer and Co. to decide his fate.

LOL...well I got no choice but to leave it to them, but I going to voice my opinions because ya never know...they could be reading :) I might be the deciding vote...ya never know :)

Still, that was another of those scenes that was really iffy. For my thinking because it was so iffy I'm betting she told him she still loved him, which would make that ending scene at the house a bit more in sync for me. Supes flew off because he looked at Jason and realized that he couldn't really intercede in this relationship.

I understand what jen says about putting the onus on Richard, and having him be the one who leaves the relationship. However, if this kid is Clark's than I would like for Lois to at least own up to her feeling for HIM and Superman. I want to see her facing some hard choices too, which is why Richard dying is great because she can face those choices but be freed by his death ... which makes everything okay from my end :) I won't need to worry about what choice she would have made. She could still love him...but boo hoo...he died :)

LOL...a lot of people have been spoiled to death, but I swear the anticipation to watch the last thirty minutes of the movie is still there. I will be excited all the way to the end regardless of how it plays because even after all the DAMN spoilers I still don't have a clue how this will play....:eek:
 
Its hard to say. So many signs point to Superman. The great mystery of the movie!!
 
I said this in another threat but to me it seems that the Director wanted to have Richard White as Jason's biological father but I think he faced resistance with that idea from tptb and could not state it explicitly in the film so instead they create a question of who that father is by adding elements that cast doubt on who is the father Clark/Superman or Richard. This allows them flexibility in future sequels that would be hard to do if it was stated that Jason is Richard's kid. It seems that they are just covering their bases. But I have no doubt that Singer will try to maintain his vision for the movie if possible.

The thing about this movie is that while we know that Superman and Lois are supposed to be together the characters don't and I think that Lois loves Richard differently but no less strongly than Superman. Love is a complex emotion and I think that her feelings for Superman are based on him as an idea and less on the man. That is not to say that she doesn't love the man he is only that she is love with him as the ideal and . While her love for Richard was much more grounded because she has a clear understanding of who he is and it was something that grew over time, it may not of been magic like when she met Superman and came after Superman left but to me that shows how real it is. I don't think that they will get together anytime soon. Even if Richard dies Superman can't just walk in and take his place he would never do that and depending on how it happens I could see that maybe that Richard's death could be involved with Superman which would make any relationship between Lois and him impossible for sometime because of the feelings of anger that Lois would have if she believed Superman was involved or didn't save Richard. That would also show to Clark/Superman that her feelings for Richard were no less real than those she has for him as Superman and you would also have to consider Jason's feelings for Richard who was and would always be his dad in every way that matters. This is where I can see Singer going but I also think he could have the Child being Richard's or Clark's but I think that dramatically it would be better to have it be Richard's because you wouldn't have to deal with does Jason have powers or not. Once you get into more Super powered people you run the risk of losing the realism that Superman Returns what's to achieve and you also split your narrative which takes the focus away from Superman. Then the child will always be a reminder of the time Superman was gone and for the love that Lois has or had for Richard.

She knows Richard will be their for her and not just that but that he needs her and that is fundamentally different than what she has with Superman because at this point it seems to be love based on the damsel in distress syndrome. While with Superman she really doesn't know anything about him. While you can still love someone even if you don't fully know him that is not really conductive for a healthy relationship since you don't know who this person is as a person. While Clark may notice the similarities between Superman and Richard there are are also many differences. What can Richard give her that Superman cannot? I would say that Richard isn't perfect and has his faults and is vulnerable and he needs her as much as she needs him is very different than the pedestal that Superman is on.

I don't think the onus should be on Richard to leave, its not like Lois doesn't love Richard, I read the book and I never got the feeling that she didn't love him, it may be different but I feel its more real than her love for Superman. So it is more like she has two loves both of them yet for different reasons. I figure until Clark confesses who he is to Lois this relationship will not be able to get traction. In the book she hardly even seems to think about Clark and since he is Superman how does that side of his personality mesh with any relationship between the two of them, While Superman may not lie Clark clearly does.
 
gaheris said:
I said this in another threat but to me it seems that the Director wanted to have Richard White as Jason's biological father but I think he faced resistance with that idea from tptb and could not state it explicitly in the film so instead they create a question of who that father is by adding elements that cast doubt on who is the father Clark/Superman or Richard. This allows them flexibility in future sequels that would be hard to do if it was stated that Jason is Richard's kid. It seems that they are just covering their bases. But I have no doubt that Singer will try to maintain his vision for the movie if possible.

The thing about this movie is that while we know that Superman and Lois are supposed to be together the characters don't and I think that Lois loves Richard differently but no less strongly than Superman. Love is a complex emotion and I think that her feelings for Superman are based on him as an idea and less on the man. That is not to say that she doesn't love the man he is only that she is love with him as the ideal and . While her love for Richard was much more grounded because she has a clear understanding of who he is and it was something that grew over time, it may not of been magic like when she met Superman and came after Superman left but to me that shows how real it is. I don't think that they will get together anytime soon. Even if Richard dies Superman can't just walk in and take his place he would never do that and depending on how it happens I could see that maybe that Richard's death could be involved with Superman which would make any relationship between Lois and him impossible for sometime because of the feelings of anger that Lois would have if she believed Superman was involved or didn't save Richard. That would also show to Clark/Superman that her feelings for Richard were no less real than those she has for him as Superman and you would also have to consider Jason's feelings for Richard who was and would always be his dad in every way that matters. This is where I can see Singer going but I also think he could have the Child being Richard's or Clark's but I think that dramatically it would be better to have it be Richard's because you wouldn't have to deal with does Jason have powers or not. Once you get into more Super powered people you run the risk of losing the realism that Superman Returns what's to achieve and you also split your narrative which takes the focus away from Superman. Then the child will always be a reminder of the time Superman was gone and for the love that Lois has or had for Richard.

She knows Richard will be their for her and not just that but that he needs her and that is fundamentally different than what she has with Superman because at this point it seems to be love based on the damsel in distress syndrome. While with Superman she really doesn't know anything about him. While you can still love someone even if you don't fully know him that is not really conductive for a healthy relationship since you don't know who this person is as a person. While Clark may notice the similarities between Superman and Richard there are are also many differences. What can Richard give her that Superman cannot? I would say that Richard isn't perfect and has his faults and is vulnerable and he needs her as much as she needs him is very different than the pedestal that Superman is on.

I don't think the onus should be on Richard to leave, its not like Lois doesn't love Richard, I read the book and I never got the feeling that she didn't love him, it may be different but I feel its more real than her love for Superman. So it is more like she has two loves both of them yet for different reasons. I figure until Clark confesses who he is to Lois this relationship will not be able to get traction. In the book she hardly even seems to think about Clark and since he is Superman how does that side of his personality mesh with any relationship between the two of them, While Superman may not lie Clark clearly does.

Some of the things you said...which is why I quoted the whole thing...is pretty much the Jeb Frieman (sp) storyline from the comics...add in a few changes here there. That story will not work for this movie because there is a child involved...full stop. No more needs to be said.

Some of the things you said...frankly...well...I don't really understand, so I won't comment.

Anyway, if the kid is Clark's he can't just fly off or...I might have to say this movie will suck. I don't care if it's revealed in this movie or the next, as long as it makes into the last movie I'm fine.

And to add, the book sets up the perfect oppurtunity for Lois to start developing feelings for Clark. I agree, she doesn't/may not have them now, but that doesn't me she can't or will never have them. This fallacy that Lois can't love Clark needs to stop.
 

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