Superman Returns Who's Your Daddy? The Ultimate Jason Poll [Place your bets]

[sevinw0rds]

Not to arrive extravegantly late into one hell of a party, but this thread got me thinking about TV spot #2. Now I haven't read the novelization in order to preserve whatI can of the film, and I also know that a lot of scenes from teasers and trailers often dont make the final cut and were just there to reel the audience in, but there's that brief exchange between Richard and Lois in that TV spot that goes something like this:

Richard: "Were you in love with him?"

Lois: "He was Superman. Everyone was in love with him."

Richard: "But were you?"


Now again, I know this may not even be in the film, and even though I personally voted for Superman being the baby daddy, I wondered what the point of that conversation would be if the child did not in fact belong to Richard. Could it be hat Lois hasn't told Richard whose child Jason is, and this is the exchange where he may be starting to figure it out? But that doesn't seem like the kind of information Lois would want to hide from the man she now claims to love. Or does it mean that the child is Richard's and he is simply curious as to the nature of Lois and Supe's history, as the scene implies in the context of that spot? Sure makes for good dinner talk!

 

[Wilde]

Regardless of whether or not Superman is Jason's father, I guarantee that Richard is NOT his biological father. Yes, in the novel, Jason does calls Richard "Dad". However, he does this because Richard was his "dad" when he was growing up. This doesn't mean he was his actual father.

In fact, in the novel, it implies strongly that she wasn't even with Richard when Jason was born. It makes several mentions of Lois "raising her child alone".

On page 288:

And when she saw his eyes, those beautiful eyes, he became her world. Any regrets she might have had, raising a child alone, not being married, were gone the moment he giggled at her the first time...

It alludes to this fact several times, that Lois clearly had thought about having to raise her child alone. That means that when Jason was born, Richard and Lois were not together.

Richard White is Jason's dad, but he is not his biological father.

 

[MoreCowbell]

Not to arrive extravegantly late into one hell of a party, but this thread got me thinking about TV spot #2. Now I haven't read the novelization in order to preserve whatI can of the film, and I also know that a lot of scenes from teasers and trailers often dont make the final cut and were just there to reel the audience in, but there's that brief exchange between Richard and Lois in that TV spot that goes something like this:

Richard: "Were you in love with him?"

Lois: "He was Superman. Everyone was in love with him."

Richard: "But were you?"


Now again, I know this may not even be in the film, and even though I personally voted for Superman being the baby daddy, I wondered what the point of that conversation would be if the child did not in fact belong to Richard. Could it be hat Lois hasn't told Richard whose child Jason is, and this is the exchange where he may be starting to figure it out? But that doesn't seem like the kind of information Lois would want to hide from the man she now claims to love. Or does it mean that the child is Richard's and he is simply curious as to the nature of Lois and Supe's history, as the scene implies in the context of that spot? Sure makes for good dinner talk!

Hmmm, great question. I haven't read the novel either (because UPS sucks, not because I don't want to). But you bring up an interesting point...

Let's say Lois was pregnant before she met Richard (confirming he is not the father, although I'm not saying we'll even know this information from the novel/movie). This could be a point of contention.

Also...

How long WOULD Lois wait before giving up on Superman/Clark? Lois says she thought of raising the child alone (EDIT: Beat me to it WILDE). If the child is Richards, why? That makes no sense.

 

[Wilde]

Because the child isn't Richard's. Lois had Jason before she even knew Richard.

 

[charl_huntress]

Because the child isn't Richard's. Lois had Jason before she even knew Richard.

This was unclear in the novel, but there were some parts that read like that. There is one scene where she says she thought of raising it alone, and when she thinks back to Jason's birth and her pregnancy there is no mention of Richard being anywhere around. Of course, this adds to the mystery and can be interpreted several ways.

Ha...guess I should read a bit more. I totally agree with what you are saying Wilde. Richard is Jason's dad, but Clark is his father (and that's my vote).

Now, knowing this...can we slightly flip this thread?

WHOSE THE MAN? THE ULTIMATE FATE OF RICHARD WHITE?????

 

[tallsy_1]

I just don't understand how they're going to have this "mystery" play out if Richard knows he's not Jason's father. What possible justifiable reason does Lois have not to tell Richard, who's raising the kid, that Jason's biological father has come back?

Richard White's ultimate fate has to be heroic death. There is no graceful way for Lois to leave him without looking bad, and yet we need Lois/Superman together.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Regardless of whether or not Superman is Jason's father, I guarantee that Richard is NOT his biological father. Yes, in the novel, Jason does calls Richard "Dad". However, he does this because Richard was his "dad" when he was growing up. This doesn't mean he was his actual father.

In fact, in the novel, it implies strongly that she wasn't even with Richard when Jason was born. It makes several mentions of Lois "raising her child alone".

On page 288:



It alludes to this fact several times, that Lois clearly had thought about having to raise her child alone. That means that when Jason was born, Richard and Lois were not together.

Richard White is Jason's dad, but he is not his biological father.

Not to mention The kid's name is Jason Lane not jason lane white .

It's just Like Jor-EL is Kal-EL's biological father, And Jonathan Kent is The Man that raised him & named him Clark Kent . But he's still The Son Of Jor-EL .

 

[The Caped Knight]

Richard White's ultimate fate has to be heroic death. There is no graceful way for Lois to leave him without looking bad, and yet we need Lois/Superman together.

We all know that [The Richard & Lois relationship] is just another obstacle . That Lois & SUPERMAN/Clark will have to face before they end up together . In The end Lois & Clark will end up together. That's a fact.

As for the fate of Richard White, I see three possibitly based on The novel

(1) Richard's Job -{Getting in the way, of their relationship}

(2) Richard realizing that Lois is Still Madly in Love with SUPERMAN that's why she won't marry him.

(3) Richard realizing that Lois also has feeling For Clark Kent who just returned . And Richard will give her up Lois for her to be happy.

 

[jensmith]

This was unclear in the novel, but there were some parts that read like that. There is one scene where she says she thought of raising it alone, and when she thinks back to Jason's birth and her pregnancy there is no mention of Richard being anywhere around. Of course, this adds to the mystery and can be interpreted several ways.

There is also a conversaton between Richard and Clark where he says he was out flying when Lois was in...

Then cuts himself off and says in trouble.

The book is very vague on paternity.

MHO, I think Richard knew she was pregnant when he met her and a relationship slowly developed between the two.

Ha...guess I should read a bit more. I totally agree with what you are saying Wilde. Richard is Jason's dad, but Clark is his father (and that's my vote).

My vote too. Richard is Jason's emotional father. the one who does what a dad should do. Clark is the biological father. Just as Jor-El is Clark's biological father and Jonathan is his emotional one.

Jason being Clark's gives deeper consequence to his leaving to find his kin, not knowing his son was about to be born.

He'll never be able to recapture those early years and he can't know if he can have another child or if it's fair to try considering the problems Jason faces.

WHOSE THE MAN? THE ULTIMATE FATE OF RICHARD WHITE?????

He leaves on good terms with Lois and Jason, sad but knowing he'll be okay and will always have a special place in Jason's life.

 

[charl_huntress]

I just don't understand how they're going to have this "mystery" play out if Richard knows he's not Jason's father. What possible justifiable reason does Lois have not to tell Richard, who's raising the kid, that Jason's biological father has come back?

She doesn't know the father has come back. She got her memory erased after SII. W

Richard White's ultimate fate has to be heroic death. There is no graceful way for Lois to leave him without looking bad, and yet we need Lois/Superman together.

I agree.

 

[LuvSupes]

When was this interview done?

Which one? The infocusmag one doesn't say but the andreyko radio interview was done just last Sunday (may 28, 2006).

Over on BT, they are saying that we'll probably get some reviews by the end of this week because press screenings are supposedly on the 8th or 9th. People sign stuff that says they can't post a review until some date closer to the movie release but people find ways to do it anyhow.

 

[griffolyon12]

I think it is Supermans kid.

 

[jensmith]

She doesn't know the father has come back. She got her memory erased after SII.

I think she knows. She's also pissed as hell. Also being Superman's son isn't safe for her son. She has to work through her own anger at Superman. She does tell him something when he's in the hospital.

 

[charl_huntress]

MHO, I think Richard knew she was pregnant when he met her and a relationship slowly developed between the two.

That sounds like a winner to me, jen. Plus, it adds to the fact that Richard really is a good guy.

He leaves on good terms with Lois and Jason, sad but knowing he'll be okay and will always have a special place in Jason's life.

That just seems sooooo sticky...and wierd. I know that this is supposed to parallel real life to some degree, but that's kind of...idk...I get a wierd feeling from that. Seems better off to just remove him completely from the picture...and I know that's mean

 

[jensmith]

Could it be hat Lois hasn't told Richard whose child Jason is, and this is the exchange where he may be starting to figure it out? But that doesn't seem like the kind of information Lois would want to hide from the man she now claims to love.

MHO, I think it's because she is worried about her son's safety. It is dangerous to be Superman's son. At the end of the day the child won't be known as Superman's but Clark's.

 

[charl_huntress]

I think she knows. She's also pissed as hell. Also being Superman's son isn't safe for her son. She has to work through her own anger at Superman. She does tell him something when he's in the hospital.

True...I guess that is there, but I've been blocking it out of my mind because like Tallsy said I don't like the idea of her knowing it's his kid and not telling him right away. That's not right. While they were up flying she should have just come right out and said she remember. It seems a bit OOC for her to know and not say something especially considering the ramifications. Though you could be right, Jen. Maybe she is concealing the identity for Jason's protection, but still...why not tell his Superdad, so he can watch out for him?

...then again...maybe she did tell him in the hospital

 

[jensmith]

That just seems sooooo sticky...and wierd. I know that this is supposed to parallel real life to some degree, but that's kind of...idk...I get a wierd feeling from that. Seems better off to just remove him completely from the picture...and I know that's mean

I think it's the most mature solution though. It also forces Superman to share his son emotionally, something he wouldn't have had to do if he stuck around.

 

[jensmith]

, but still...why not tell his Superdad, so he can watch out for him?

...then again...maybe she did tell him in the hospital

I think because at first she is really really angry. She had to give birth without him, she had to sit there in NICU (Neonatal intensive care unit) hoping Jason would live without the support of Jason's dad.

She had to do all the heavy lifting.

She didn't know why Superman left, he didn't say good-bye. I don't think he is owed anything that first meeting. For all she knows he abandoned her during her moment of need (hence the "how could you leave US like that" comment)

However, as she learns why he left and realizes he didn't leave her the way she thought (for another woman or because he was bored, etc) , she comes to the realization he is the same man she's always loved and deserves to know the truth, even if neither of them would ever hurt Richard for their own personal happiness.

 

[MoreCowbell]

I think it's the most mature solution though. It also forces Superman to share his son emotionally, something he wouldn't have had to do if he stuck around.

The fact is, Lois loves Superman. Nothing can change that. You can't will yourself out of love. The heart wants what the heart wants, and Lois's wants Superman.

Richard isn't the obstacle however. If he was it would be an "I'm sorry, I love him and I want to be with him". It's Jason's relationship to Richard. This is will be very interesting in terms how it's handled in the sequels.

 

[charl_huntress]

The fact is, Lois loves Superman. Nothing can change that. You can't will yourself out of love. The heart wants what the heart wants, and Lois's wants Superman.

Richard isn't the obstacle however. If he was it would be an "I'm sorry, I love him and I want to be with him". It's Jason's relationship to Richard. This is will be very interesting in terms how it's handled in the sequels.

Good point! I just don't like the idea of Supes flying off at the end knowing that Jason is his son. Curiousity alone would be enough for him to want to get to know him. I'd like to see the sequels touch upon this, but I could wait for the 'who's your daddy' reveal until the last movie. I just want to see enough hints to know that it is Supes, and of course I'd like to see Richard removed from the picture completely.

I think it's the most mature solution though. It also forces Superman to share his son emotionally, something he wouldn't have had to do if he stuck around.

True, I do see the benefit in this, but that's too angsty for me. I'd much prefer the heroic death for Richard as long as it doesn't parallel the Jeb Frieman story in the comics. If Singer does it any other way than how that story was executed I'll be happy.

 

[jensmith]

True, I do see the benefit in this, but that's too angsty for me. I'd much prefer the heroic death for Richard as long as it doesn't parallel the Jeb Frieman story in the comics. If Singer does it any other way than how that story was executed I'll be happy.

I think it's less angsty if Richard lives and moves on with his life, allowed to be happy with somebody else.

This way Jason won't grieve either. He'll always have Richard in his life. Superman is big enough to understand the bond between the two and not be threatened by it. Yet, it stands as a reminder of searching for something when it was right in front of you.

If Richard dies then his ghost is always there.

 

[charl_huntress]

I think it's less angsty if Richard lives and moves on with his life, allowed to be happy with somebody else.

This way Jason won't grieve either. He'll always have Richard in his life. Superman is big enough to understand the bond between the two and not be threatened by it. Yet, it stands as a reminder of searching for something when it was right in front of you.

If Richard dies then his ghost is always there.

Whether he dies or not his ghost will always be there, so killing him wouldn't make his memory any harder for Clark to deal with. In addition, what type of man would walk away from his son? Better to kill him off and just deal with the consequences. And as far as grieving goes, I'm sure Clark could share a lot of his experiences with Jason. That could provide a lot of glue. I mean it's not like Clark doesn't have any experience in the area.

Actually the more I think about it killing Richard off would provide a nice little parallel for Jason's story and Clark's.

 

[jensmith]

Whether he dies or not his ghost will always be there, so killing him wouldn't make his memory any harder for Clark to deal with.

Killing him makes it harder for Clark wrt Jason. If Richard lives then Clark doesn't have to replace anybody but carves out his own place.

In addition, what type of man would walk away from his son?

Richard wouldn't be walking away but allowing his son the chance for a relationship with his biological dad.

Any parent will tell you, their child's well being is the front and center no matter the personal sacrifice.

Richard knows Superman will love Jason as much as he does. It becomes a blended family, where Richard keeps his relationship with Jason albeit not day to day.

Not only that, but Jason can visit Richard in the sequels. Win/win.

 

[charl_huntress]

I don't see how killing him makes it harder for Clark to deal with Jason. That would actually be something that they have in common. The fact they both share the loss of a father would be something they could talk about, and the added drama is another thing Clark can't punch his way through. He'd actually have to work on building a relationship, and that works for me.

I can't see a man who has been living with a woman and her son, and that son is in effect his son as well, walking away. Matter of fact, that would make Lois look really bad. This man has been there for her and her son, but she's going to drop him because she really loves Superman and it's unfair to Richard. Naaa...not good. I know stuff like that plays in real life, but that's a little too much drama for a Superman movie. Better to kill Richard off, and have Clark explore his relationship through the shared bonds of loss...which is a defining aspect of Superman...than the blended family. I simply don't like that idea.

 

[MoreCowbell]

Good point! I just don't like the idea of Supes flying off at the end knowing that Jason is his son. Curiousity alone would be enough for him to want to get to know him. I'd like to see the sequels touch upon this, but I could wait for the 'who's your daddy' reveal until the last movie. I just want to see enough hints to know that it is Supes, and of course I'd like to see Richard removed from the picture completely.

If Lois does indeed whisper in his ear (while in the hospital, completely out of it) that Jason is he son, odds are he won't remember it. Ignorance is bliss. Lois can get it off her chest, and Superman is clueless as to Jason.

I'm not sure how I want Richard's exit (if he does indeed exit) to be like. I personally have no issue with him being told Lois wants to be with Supes, or with a death. I leave it to Singer and Co. to decide his fate.