Daredevil Why a TV series for Daredevil?

[Lord]

Threads like this make me confused, most fans have been saying that Daredevil works better on TV for years, when it finaly happens, you get the usual "whose bad idea was this? Nobody asked for this!" thread

 

[3dman27]

I just thought of something aren't these internetshows not television?"

 

[Mike Murdock]

It's called a Voluntary Response Bias. Only those with opinions strong enough to say something will say something, so you don't get a representative viewpoint. Those who say it shouldn't be a TV show may be the only ones who feel that way, but they'll make a larger portion of those who feel like saying anything.

 

[The Question]

I just thought of something aren't these internetshows not television?"

Eh. The nomenclature has lived beyond its original literal meaning. It happens.

 

[metaphysician]

We need a new term for things like Netflix original shows. They are as different from actual television shows as they are from movies, in terms of how they are structured, how they are watched, and how they are expected to make money.

 

[MangleBoP]

We need a new term for things like Netflix original shows. They are as different from actual television shows as they are from movies, in terms of how they are structured, how they are watched, and how they are expected to make money.

Call it a webseries. Done.

 

[3dman27]

Call it a webseries. Done.

good idea

 

[MangleBoP]

good idea

Thanks!

 

[The Question]

We need a new term for things like Netflix original shows. They are as different from actual television shows as they are from movies, in terms of how they are structured, how they are watched, and how they are expected to make money.

We really don't need a new term. They're actually structured pretty similarly to normal television shows.

 

[fixxxer]

^

Yup, they're not structured any differently from the quality cable content that has been flooding our televisions for a few years now. In terms of experience as well, if you just DVR'd a full season of a show and then decided to watch it at your convenience, it would be essentially similar to the Netflix consumption experience. In the end, content is content. TV, computer, laptop, tablet, etc. are merely delivery mechanisms.

 

[fixxxer]

EDIT... double post

 

[TheVileOne]

TV format is much better for Daredevil. We get 13 episodes of his story.

Also, being a lawyer by day and a vigilante by night is actually the perfect type of format for a TV series. It means you can do procedural courtroom stuff mixed with superhero action. It gives the show a fun, TV premise hook. Instead of being the typical courtroom procedural BS, it has a fun twist to it.

This means there is lots of potential to explore even more characters and subplots than we could in a film.

Think about this. We know we are actually getting Stick in the series now. In the original movie they completely excluded Stick and wrote him out. Now we know they can explore Stick likely training Matt Murdock so his being an incredible fighter despite being blind makes sense. In the movie, they just made it seem like he gets the Radar Senses and that makes him this world class fighter. No, sorry that's not how it works. So now we will hopefully get his training and working with Stick.

 

[Spiderdevil]

So I have a doubt,if they do decide to make a Daredevil movie in the future, will they make a complete reboot with a different actor(like WB is doing with Flash) or will they continue the netflix show in movie format?

 

[cryptic name]

So I have a doubt,if they do decide to make a Daredevil movie in the future, will they make a complete reboot with a different actor(like WB is doing with Flash) or will they continue the netflix show in movie format?

No reason not to continue the show in movie format if they go that way. They've got movie-quality talent already. I'm pretty confident that a few of these characters will make appearances in other Marvel movies, if not in a Daredevil movie specifically.

 

[Spiderdevil]

It's because Marvel's plate when it comes to films is full but Daredevil can be done on a TV budget.

Ant-Man and Doctor Strange are both going to be film franchises and there's also been talk of Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Inhumans. That's going to cause Marvel to have to step up their production and release schedule for Phase 3 by releasing 3 films a year and/or extending Phase 3 by another year. (Personally, I feel like BP and Inhumans can wait for Phase 4.) That plus a Ghost Rider reboot will need a massive budget to pull off correctly. Now if Sony decides to sell the Spider-Man rights since the last three films have been less than well-received critically or if Fox's Fantastic Four reverts because the film is a massive bomb, then that'll put Marvel Studios in the position of making four films a year. That's a full slate for any studio and I can't see Marvel pumping out more without hurting the brand by oversaturation.

Other properties like the announced Netflix series along with other properties like Blade, Moon Knight, Punisher, Runaways, She-Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye and Winter Soldier can be done on a TV show's budget. When the most expensive costuming choices of any of these involves green body paint, that's an obvious choice for television instead of a full feature film since the marketing budget would be too high to compensate for the lack of special effects.

Keep in mind when looking at what's likely going to be Phase 3

2015 Ant-Man
2016 Captain America 3, Doctor Strange
2017 Thor 3, Guardians/Hulk Crossover
2018 Captain Marvel, Avengers 3

It's obvious to say that Marvel has it's hands full right now. Then when you consider that Phase 4 is going to involve a fourth Iron Man film alongside Black Panther and the Inhumans with three films a year + competition from DC + Fox's films + an animated Power Pack film if Big Hero Six works, there will usually be a superhero film in theaters at all times and no room for street level heroes.

Keep in mind that everyone I listed aside from Punisher and the Runaways has been an Avenger and Marvel Studios has stated that if the Netflix series are successful, we could see them on the big screen, it's safe to say that most of these characters will be joining the Avengers except for Black Widow and Hawkeye who are already members of the team.

Even aside from oversaturation and budget reasons, Marvel wants to introduce properties to other mediums. They're involved in Publishing and film, but branching into other mediums is how the brand stays fresh. Agents of SHIELD is cool but they have to poach villains from other heroes or invent their own. Agent Carter on the other hand can introduce a Previous Madame Hydra before Viper takes on the role as well as Heinrich Zemo as the father to Helmut along with Nick Fury Sr. but a prequel series has next to no crossover potential and is even more limited by what characters it can use.

Bringing A and B-list heroes to TV allows for more interesting villains along with more crossover potential. So if you can do a character cheap, find a way to have Scarlett Johannsson and Robert Downey Jr cameo in Phase 3, branch into another medium, save on marketing, expand the roster of the Avengers and introduce enough villains for a potential Thunderbolts film, then why shouldn't Marvel do Daredevil on TV?

All that is fine but one thing I have admired about Marvel is their intent of branching their universe into different scopes

We had the realms with Thor and Loki,a techno-thriller element with Iron Man and Ant-man,Spy-espionage with CapAm, Black Widow and Hawkeye, a cosmic backdrop with GoTG and now a supernatural element with Doctor Strange

One thing you will notice is that what they are lacking are street level heroes,I might be the only one but I think a Daredevil movie could have been a great launching platform for Marvel street level heroes,they could have followed it up with movies of Luke Cage, Punisher, Ghost Rider and Spider-man(when the rights revert back) and teamed them up in a Defenders movie where they fight organized crime on a street level as opposed to the larger-than-life threats of the avengers movie

I feel like its a mixed opportunity and I don't get the budget argument,I mean by that logic, even Captain America doesn't need a massive budget

And personally I am prepared to wait,Daredevil and the heroes I mentioned could have easily kicked off Marvel's Phase 5 after people got bored with The Avengers

 

[DrCosmic]

All that is fine but one thing I have admired about Marvel is their intent of branching their universe into different scopes

We had the realms with Thor and Loki,a techno-thriller element with Iron Man and Ant-man,Spy-espionage with CapAm, Black Widow and Hawkeye, a cosmic backdrop with GoTG and now a supernatural element with Doctor Strange

One thing you will notice is that what they are lacking are street level heroes,I might be the only one but I think a Daredevil movie could have been a great launching platform for Marvel street level heroes,they could have followed it up with movies of Luke Cage, Punisher, Ghost Rider and Spider-man(when the rights revert back) and teamed them up in a Defenders movie where they fight organized crime on a street level as opposed to the larger-than-life threats of the avengers movie

I feel like its a mixed opportunity and I don't get the budget argument,I mean by that logic, even Captain America doesn't need a massive budget

And personally I am prepared to wait,Daredevil and the heroes I mentioned could have easily kicked off Marvel's Phase 5 after people got bored with The Avengers

Well, a few things. They still can kick off Phase 5 like that, but it's not clear if people will ever get bored with the Avengers, since there's no signs of flagging and plans for roster rotating to keep things interesting are already underway. Why not do what you plan to do in Phase 5 now on Netflix, since you can do them well on a TV budget, and then if you don't have a bunch of cosmic/magic/Avengers sequels/new expensive characters films to make in Phase 5 (you will), then just upgrade what you've been doing on Netflix for 10 years.

And Captain America, while not more expensive as a character than Daredevil if it was a one-man show, is a world traveling hero who fights enemies that are more expensive to film than he, and large military forces, has an origin story that's a period piece and regularly makes use of larger than life tech. He, like James Bond, needs a large budget to be done real justice.

 

[Dark Raven]

Didn't Marvel say there was the possibility of spinning off the Netflix series into movies? So you get the best of both worlds here if that happens. A TV series of 13 episodes with them, and movies based on them starring the same actors which have already been well set up and developed.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Well, a few things. They still can kick off Phase 5 like that, but it's not clear if people will ever get bored with the Avengers, since there's no signs of flagging and plans for roster rotating to keep things interesting are already underway. Why not do what you plan to do in Phase 5 now on Netflix, since you can do them well on a TV budget, and then if you don't have a bunch of cosmic/magic/Avengers sequels/new expensive characters films to make in Phase 5 (you will), then just upgrade what you've been doing on Netflix for 10 years.

And Captain America, while not more expensive as a character than Daredevil if it was a one-man show, is a world traveling hero who fights enemies that are more expensive to film than he, and large military forces, has an origin story that's a period piece and regularly makes use of larger than life tech. He, like James Bond, needs a large budget to be done real justice.

He can be done on a TV budget but that doesn't mean he should be,he will have a far lesser exposure on TV/Netflix as compared to a movie,a lot of countries don't even have Netflix.

And the fact that he can be done on a smaller budget should be incentive enough to make a movie,there isn't that much investment and risk and he stands to earn as much as Captain America or Thor if done right

Like I said,Marvel lack street level heroes and they missed a chance here to introduce them,it could have even added a nice back drop for a Civil War story line later on with the famous superheroes on one side(Tony Stark) and the heroes who prefer to hide their civilian identities on the other(Matt Murdock, Peter Parker, Frank Castle)

 

[Lilbaz]

He can be done on a TV budget but that doesn't mean he should be,he will have a far lesser exposure on TV/Netflix as compared to a movie,a lot of countries don't even have Netflix.

And the fact that he can be done on a smaller budget should be incentive enough to make a movie,there isn't that much investment and risk and he stands to earn as much as Captain America or Thor if done right

Like I said,Marvel lack street level heroes and they missed a chance here to introduce them,it could have even added a nice back drop for a Civil War story line later on with the famous superheroes on one side(Tony Stark) and the heroes who prefer to hide their civilian identities on the other(Matt Murdock, Peter Parker, Frank Castle)

1 - He will have a lot more time to tell his story on TV.
2 - If Netflix isn't available in some countries, they can always sell it to a network in that country. It will also be released on Blu Ray.
3 - If you make a Daredevil movie it will mean that another Marvel film is not being made. Marvel only have a limited number of movies that they can put out each year.
4 - They are introducing street level heroes by making the tv series.
5 - Just because they are on tv does not stop them appearing in movies.

 

[Spiderdevil]

1.Time=/=Quality AOS has had plenty of time and it still sucks in comparison to movies
2. and 4. All that means limited exposure,spin it whatever way you want,the fact remains that a LOT fever people will end up watching DD than the movies
3.Like I said,I am prepared to wait,it will also give adequate time for Spidey to return home and a proper plan can be devised to make a street-hero semi-universe
5.I hope it happens,but they probably won't show the origin and Daredevil has one of the best origins in Marvel comics alongside Spidey and Doctor Strange

 

[DrCosmic]

Why would you think they wouldn't show the origin?

He can be done on a TV budget but that doesn't mean he should be,he will have a far lesser exposure on TV/Netflix as compared to a movie,a lot of countries don't even have Netflix.

And the fact that he can be done on a smaller budget should be incentive enough to make a movie,there isn't that much investment and risk and he stands to earn as much as Captain America or Thor if done right

Like I said,Marvel lack street level heroes and they missed a chance here to introduce them,it could have even added a nice back drop for a Civil War story line later on with the famous superheroes on one side(Tony Stark) and the heroes who prefer to hide their civilian identities on the other(Matt Murdock, Peter Parker, Frank Castle)

It's not just that he can be done on a TV budget, but he can be done very well on a TV budget. So when you have the option to do, say a Street Hero Netflix show and a Cosmic Hero movie, or just a Street Hero movie, the answer seems very clear to me, as to what will be in the best interest of the expansion of the universe and the profitability of the studio. You say they missed their chance to do street level heroes, but they are in fact doing them, and it in no way prohibits them from making movies of them in Phase 5. It prevents them from doing your version of Civil War perhaps, but that's just one version of one story they've nixed.

It's not just that he can be done well on a TV budget, but he can bring in a sizable and enthusiastic audience among the folks who don't go to the movies so much but love to sit on their couch and consume gritty twisting drama and then spend the next year constantly talking about it. No one else can take the Marvel brand to the 50+ million (probably closer to 100 by may next year) Netflix subscribers and have Marvel talked about with as much frequency and praise and general public interest as Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones or House of Card or Orange is the New Black. You're comparing the size of the audience (which may not actually be smaller at all come 2015), and discounting that Daredevil can reach an large new audience and bring them into the fold for Marvel. What you call "spin" is just a business decision that's in Marvel Studios' best interest. Black Panther can't do that. And while Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica Jones technically can, none of them represents the Marvel brand so purely and distinctly as Daredevil does, making him the ideal choice three times over now.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Won't show the origin, there is set photos of a boy and a truck with waste chemicals, Stick has also been cast and footage at NYCC had Jack Murdock.

Also 13 hours of DD >>>>>> 2 hours of DD that is all

 

[Gr0oT]

At around 4 million an episode and the talent involved this is already promising to look better than the previous cinematic venture.

AoS hadn't gotten my hopes up because I did feel it cheapened the MCU, but this show has teased blending in with the Cinematic portion since the beginning and the decisions made so far have reflected that possibility.

I still disagree that Moon Knight and especially Ghost Rider should be made into a show and am most nervous about Iron Fist because of my attachments to the Brubaker run.

 

[3dman27]

Threads like this make me confused, most fans have been saying that Daredevil works better on TV for years, when it finaly happens, you get the usual "whose bad idea was this? Nobody asked for this!" thread

ironic is it not?

 

[Shikamaru]

Arguably, a Daredevil TV series could only be considered a problem if you subscribe to the cultural bias that film is a superior medium to television by default, which isn't the case, especially now in 2014. TV is rapidly catching up to film in respectability and it's about time certain more grounded heroes can shine to their full potential without having to worry about budget issues.