Daredevil Why a TV series for Daredevil?

[3dman27]

I see your reasoning

 

[Six]

But how do they plan to earn money with them being released free on Netflix? The way I see it, its 200M down the drain

Where are you getting that Netflix is free? Netflix costs 8 dollars a month per person. Marvel will obviously be getting a cut out that once their shows premiere. If Marvel wasn't going to profit off of this they would have never even considered it. I think they know what they're doing lol

 

[DrCosmic]

Fair enough,We wouldn't know for sure till it is released

True, we don't know for sure whether Netflix will exist long enough to make all these shows either.

Will they pay Marvel 50M (the budget)? I highly doubt it
And foreign markets,that's one of the point I am making,Netflix is only available in the American continent and some parts of Europe

In today's era,foreign markets make up more than 60% of the box office gross,it bugs me that this Netflix route will rob almost 50% of the fans off Daredevil

You're still thinking network TV. Yes, the budget is absolutely paid to Marvel, and they decide how to spend it. I stand corrected that it's 200M overall and not 200M per show. The thing is, "robbing" MCU fans of access to DD creates a demand for DD and thus Netflix in those countries, so that Daredevil can be "returned" to the people who never had him. Which is a really entitled way to get your point across, but I know what you mean.

And the way I see it,people will get bored with The Avengers,no matter how much they rotate the rooster because all Avenger's movies will boil down to the same thing- big humanity hating egotistic enemy(Loki,Ultron,Thanos) and his henchmen(Chitauri,Ultron bots) against the world and the Avengers need to defend the earth all the while also fighting each other

Daredevil and co could have bought a new dimension(Street heroes) with more down to earth movies and threats,while people argue that the Netflix shows are a part of MCU and I agree with them but the fact remains that they cannot be seen as a viable source of income

Marvel could have done away with Avengers 3 and Thanos by the end of Phase 3,Phase 4 could have bought in Daredevil, Punisher, Luke Cage,Ghost Rider and Spider-man and then united them in a Heroes for hire/Defenders movie against a common enemy (Kingpin) then BOOM Marvel's Civil War in 2023 or something with the Street/masked heroes as anti-reg and the famous/maskless Avengers as pro-reg

Am I the only one who sees the missed potential?

You might be one of the few. Few people think the Avengers, which keeps getting more and more popular on the same formula, is going to somehow get old. Of that few, fewer still think that the best way to change things up is to bring in the street heroes to the films. Of them, even fewer believe that the Netflix shows create any problem for that whatsoever. No one is boiling down AoU to be the same as A1, in fact, people are excited about the similarities as much as the minor differences. Oh, megalomaniac created by one team member's hubris, oh cannon fodder army, oh heroes fighting, oh... but no one is calling it repetitive, not even a little bit. It's all hype. At worst someone will complain that death doesn't mean anything in the MCU and that will get old, but every movie keeps having a fake death and keeps on getting more commercial and critical acclaim.

Your Phase 4 seems to predicate on people falling out of love with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Widow, GotG, Ant-Man, Dr. Strange and any other characters introduced in film before A3 like Black Panther, The Inhumans, Ms. Marvel and so on. That the best move for Marvel in 2020 will be to back burner all these characters and focus on building a team up of street level heroes instead of the kinds of heroes that have made the MCU such a force. People like these characters a lot. That's not going to go away after their trilogies close, it may only increase if they finish well. Their desire to see these characters team up, as the whole movie industry tries to emulate that, isn't going away either. They're not going to start from scratch with a new teamup unless the audience stops liking these characters and even these kinds of characters so much.

Plus, your argument doesn't quite match up. Netflix not bringing a large profit to Marvel doesn't in any way impact it's ability to expand the MCU's themes and audience. It's possible to do both or neither or one or the other with no correlation at all. They're just two different things. That's why I suggest you stick with the emotional appeal that actually gets to the heart of your concern, instead of trying to pull together analysis that isn't in truth founded on logic. You want the MCU to expand your way for maximum exposure of Daredevil because you want as many people as possible to like him as much as you do. That's fine, but don't call things not expansion because they're on TV, or don't make as much money as you think they should. It makes it sound like you don't care about making sense.

 

[Dark Raven]

You are not looking at the bigger picture
One cannot deny that the MCU lack the street-level superheroes, A Daredevil movie could have easily ushered in that possibility and could have followed it up with movies of Punisher, Ghost Rider ,Luke Cage and the lot

I seriously doubt there would've been more movies of Punisher and Ghost Rider. Neither of them did well in theatres. Just because Marvel would now be making them wouldn't wash away the bad taste that audiences would have of them in their mouths. Even Hulk, who is more popular than those two, was affected by Ang Lee's movie.

DD on TV has a better chance of establishing something good, and then spinning off into its own movie later on. So you get 13 hours plus a potential movie instead of only 2 hours.

 

[Shakel92]

If I'm not mistaken, Netflix will pay Marvel every time someone watches one of their shows. It's not like Netflix keeps the $8 a month subscription fee. They use that money to pay royalties, just like cable and broadcast TV stations do. That means that Marvel (Disney) will be making money off of the Netflix deal for years and years to come, because some people (like me) will re-watch the crap out of their shows, even years after it has been released. This is a solid, money making move for Marvel and Netflix. Plus it makes me happy because I get a 13 hour TV show for mature audiences instead of a 90 minute movie.

 

[metaphysician]

All of Netflix's original program is at that level, critically and commercially. Not some, not kinda, not maybe. All. Every time. They don't make a show unless it's going to be a huge success and bring more people to their channel. They don't release their numbers, but you're talking about something like 20 million people at least watching these shows. Netflix is spending a billion dollars on Marvel's Netflix series of series. If those fail, Netflix itself might fail. What for you is a pipe dream is a crucial and reliable strategy to a billion dollar business.

Um, no they aren't. The 200M price tag is for the whole 60 episode plan, not for each show individually.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I've heard conflicting information whether the 200 million includes the Defenders or just the four shows.

 

[Lilbaz]

I've heard conflicting information whether the 200 million includes the Defenders or just the four shows.

Me too. Some are saying that Defenders might only be 4 episodes. So they might not be counting it as a full show. Rather an extension of each.

 

[Dark Raven]

Then why not screen it as a feature length episode? If each episode is 45 mins, then if it's screened all in one go it could be a 180 min movie. t: Maybe release it in theatres too.

 

[Lilbaz]

Then why not screen it as a feature length episode? If each episode is 45 mins, then if it's screened all in one go it could be a 180 min movie. t: Maybe release it in theatres too.

Each episode will be around 55min (same as House Of Cards) as there are no adverts.

 

[Spiderdevil]

I seriously doubt there would've been more movies of Punisher and Ghost Rider. Neither of them did well in theatres. Just because Marvel would now be making them wouldn't wash away the bad taste that audiences would have of them in their mouths. Even Hulk, who is more popular than those two, was affected by Ang Lee's movie.

DD on TV has a better chance of establishing something good, and then spinning off into its own movie later on. So you get 13 hours plus a potential movie instead of only 2 hours.

Well I mentioned Punisher and Ghost Rider as examples,they can use other Street-level heroes if they want

Also TIH wasn't that big a success because that movie was a disappointment in itself.

 

[Spiderdevil]

You're still thinking network TV. Yes, the budget is absolutely paid to Marvel, and they decide how to spend it. I stand corrected that it's 200M overall and not 200M per show. The thing is, "robbing" MCU fans of access to DD creates a demand for DD and thus Netflix in those countries, so that Daredevil can be "returned" to the people who never had him. Which is a really entitled way to get your point across, but I know what you mean.

It might be a bit too audacious to think that Daredevil will create demand but then again Marvel is known to be audacious so lets see..

You might be one of the few. Few people think the Avengers, which keeps getting more and more popular on the same formula, is going to somehow get old. Of that few, fewer still think that the best way to change things up is to bring in the street heroes to the films. Of them, even fewer believe that the Netflix shows create any problem for that whatsoever. No one is boiling down AoU to be the same as A1, in fact, people are excited about the similarities as much as the minor differences. Oh, megalomaniac created by one team member's hubris, oh cannon fodder army, oh heroes fighting, oh... but no one is calling it repetitive, not even a little bit. It's all hype. At worst someone will complain that death doesn't mean anything in the MCU and that will get old, but every movie keeps having a fake death and keeps on getting more commercial and critical acclaim.

Your Phase 4 seems to predicate on people falling out of love with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Widow, GotG, Ant-Man, Dr. Strange and any other characters introduced in film before A3 like Black Panther, The Inhumans, Ms. Marvel and so on. That the best move for Marvel in 2020 will be to back burner all these characters and focus on building a team up of street level heroes instead of the kinds of heroes that have made the MCU such a force. People like these characters a lot. That's not going to go away after their trilogies close, it may only increase if they finish well. Their desire to see these characters team up, as the whole movie industry tries to emulate that, isn't going away either. They're not going to start from scratch with a new teamup unless the audience stops liking these characters and even these kinds of characters so much.

You might be right,the popularity might not wane but the thing I love about Marvel is that they are relentless,they are not satisfied with the same group of heroes(Iron man,Thor and Captain America), they are introducing new dimensions in their universe like cosmic(GoTG) and supernatural(Doctor Strange), they are not sitting back and just limiting themselves to the same big 4 and their similar side-kicks,so why not expand into Street-level heroes and their sub-universe which is more grounded? I know that the Netflix series can be expanded into movies but there is no saying how that will be received, I know I will be pissed if they suddenly started putting characters of AoS into Marvel movies

Secondly,I think these Street Level heroes could be an excellent contrast to The Avengers, think about it,none of The Avengers have secret identities and they are all really famous and loved by people, while the Street-level heroes are masked vigilantes who supposedly take laws in their own hands and sometimes in extreme ways(Punisher and Daredevil), they could have been shown to be intimidating to the people and government much like the X-men, that could have been a great back drop for a Civil War movie,that story line, despite not being perfect is imo one of the most iconic in Marvel comics and the movies have an opportunity to improve upon them

Because lets face it,the reason why The Avengers was such a big success was not just because our favorite heroes teamed up, it was also because they fought each other aswell and that is why internal conflicts will be a constant part of the Avengers movies.What better internal conflict movie than Civil War?

At present they would have to create forced rifts between Captain Amercia and Tony Stark and that would seem hypocritical given how Tony was against government taking control of his armour in IM2 and how Captain has learned never to trust the authorities after the events of TWS

Plus, your argument doesn't quite match up. Netflix not bringing a large profit to Marvel doesn't in any way impact it's ability to expand the MCU's themes and audience. It's possible to do both or neither or one or the other with no correlation at all. They're just two different things. That's why I suggest you stick with the emotional appeal that actually gets to the heart of your concern, instead of trying to pull together analysis that isn't in truth founded on logic. You want the MCU to expand your way for maximum exposure of Daredevil because you want as many people as possible to like him as much as you do. That's fine, but don't call things not expansion because they're on TV, or don't make as much money as you think they should. It makes it sound like you don't care about making sense.

Let me be clear,at present only Daredevil has been commissioned.Based on his success Marvel will go ahead with Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and based on their success they will go ahead with the Defenders mini-series.It doesn't help that these things are not as profitable as the movies.
What I mean is that there is too much pressure on each of them,if god forbid, Daredevil isn't well received,Marvel might easily not make another season and put him on the shelf for another decade.There is too much risk

Compared to say the new Doctor Strange or Ant-man movie,even if they aren't that well received,they will still make a set amount of money (500M) based on the Marvel tag alone,enough to sanction a sequel and they will definitely get their time in the upcoming Avengers, the risk isn't that much

 

[Moridin]

Let me be clear,at present only Daredevil has been commissioned.Based on his success Marvel will go ahead with Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and based on their success they will go ahead with the Defenders mini-series.It doesn't help that these things are not as profitable as the movies.
What I mean is that there is too much pressure on each of them,if god forbid, Daredevil isn't well received,Marvel might easily not make another season and put him on the shelf for another decade.There is too much risk

Incorrect. All the shows have been commissioned (except maybe Defenders). As of 2 or 3 months ago the writers room for JJ was already open, and the casting process was underway.

 

[Six]

I am so sick of this thread and the ignorance being spouted in it.

Let me be clear,at present only Daredevil has been commissioned.Based on his success Marvel will go ahead with Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and based on their success they will go ahead with the Defenders mini-series.It doesn't help that these things are not as profitable as the movies.
What I mean is that there is too much pressure on each of them,if god forbid, Daredevil isn't well received,Marvel might easily not make another season and put him on the shelf for another decade.There is too much risk

Where do you get your information from? That is completely and totally untrue. Daredevil and the rest of the shows have been ordered straight to series. The Defenders has been ordered as a miniseries event. Its ALL happening no matter what.

Stop being irrationally pessimistic and get over the fact that its not going to be a freakin' movie. You've had a year to process this information for christs sake.

 

[Lilbaz]

I am so sick of this thread and the ignorance being spouted in it.


Where do you get your information from? That is completely and totally untrue. Daredevil and the rest of the shows have been ordered straight to series. The Defenders has been ordered as a miniseries event. Its ALL happening no matter what.

Stop being irrationally pessimistic and get over the fact that its not going to be a freakin' movie. You've had a year to process this information for christs sake.

Lol

 

[Verick808]

I kind of expected this thread to die once we started getting official news.

 

[Gr0oT]

I still think there should be one street level hero that gets a feature film and personally I'd want it to be Moon Knight.

 

[Lilbaz]

I still think there should be one street level hero that gets a feature film and personally I'd want it to be Moon Knight.

It's a difficult one. The films that do well in the box office are usually heavily loaded with special effects. People go to the cinema to get full experience of the effects.

Street level heroes don't need that much special effects so might not be as big a draw for audiences. They could probably do them on a smaller budget, but then will get less return. So they will probably use their resources to go for films with epic battles etc... Remember they can only put out a certain amount of films a year and want to maximise profit.

If it can be done on a tv budget and it is Netflix or HBO I would prefer it on TV. You have a lot more time to tell the story and examine the characters.

These will not be Agents of Shield (hopefully). But made with the quality of a GOT or House of Cards. If they can do that I will be a happy man. More so than if they did a movie.

 

[Sterling Archer]

13 hours of character development fits Daredevil so much better than a two hour action blockbuster. I don't understand why this is even a discussion.

 

[Spiderdevil]

It's a difficult one. The films that do well in the box office are usually heavily loaded with special effects. People go to the cinema to get full experience of the effects.

Street level heroes don't need that much special effects so might not be as big a draw for audiences. They could probably do them on a smaller budget, but then will get less return. So they will probably use their resources to go for films with epic battles etc... Remember they can only put out a certain amount of films a year and want to maximise profit.

If it can be done on a tv budget and it is Netflix or HBO I would prefer it on TV. You have a lot more time to tell the story and examine the characters.

These will not be Agents of Shield (hopefully). But made with the quality of a GOT or House of Cards. If they can do that I will be a happy man. More so than if they did a movie.

They can do elaborate actions sequences like they did for TWS(minus the crashing aircrafts) or The Wolverine
I think its great that they don't need a high budget,100M maybe, and given the popularity of Marvel all their movies are easily a lock on 500M

 

[Spiderdevil]

Where do you get your information from? That is completely and totally untrue. Daredevil and the rest of the shows have been ordered straight to series. The Defenders has been ordered as a miniseries event. Its ALL happening no matter what.

Stop being irrationally pessimistic and get over the fact that its not going to be a freakin' movie. You've had a year to process this information for christs sake.

So why haven't we heard any news of any other series apart from Daredevil?
I mean Daredevil is half-way through filming and all we have heard from the other four is that someone is writing Jessica Jones and casting has 'begun' and not a single bit of news about other 3

None of them even have a release date,with the speed at which they are going,they will be released maybe an year after Daredevil,if they are released at all

 

[Lilbaz]

So why haven't we heard any news of any other series apart from Daredevil?
I mean Daredevil is half-way through filming and all we have heard from the other four is that someone is writing Jessica Jones and casting has 'begun' and not a single bit of news about other 3

None of them even have a release date,with the speed at which they are going,they will be released maybe an year after Daredevil,if they are released at all

They will be filmed over 3 years with a budget of $200m. First they film Daredevil, then Jessica Jones etc...

They have announced the deal with Netflix for all 4 plus a Defenders mini series. They will release more information when they feel the need.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't think they've announced a release date. But that's not the same as thinking they won't get released (which makes no sense to me). Marvel is notoriously tight-lipped anyway and won't release anything until they think it's appropriate. But Jessica Jones has a show-runner. Now it's possible these shows will be released more slowly than people are hoping, but there's no reason to believe they won't be released at all. Certainly, a contract was signed to commission these shows so Netflix has some exposure either way.

 

[DrCosmic]

It might be a bit too audacious to think that Daredevil will create demand but then again Marvel is known to be audacious so lets see..

If Daredevil can't create demand then he shouldn't be produced at all. He's a great character, with great people making a show about him. Besides, even if he was a crappy character and the show was crappy its still the Marvel brand and that will create some demand. I for one will probably get Netflix because of it. I almost got it just for Arrested Development Season 4.

You might be right,the popularity might not wane but the thing I love about Marvel is that they are relentless,they are not satisfied with the same group of heroes(Iron man,Thor and Captain America), they are introducing new dimensions in their universe like cosmic(GoTG) and supernatural(Doctor Strange), they are not sitting back and just limiting themselves to the same big 4 and their similar side-kicks,so why not expand into Street-level heroes and their sub-universe which is more grounded? I know that the Netflix series can be expanded into movies but there is no saying how that will be received, I know I will be pissed if they suddenly started putting characters of AoS into Marvel movies

So if Mockingbird shows up in Cap 3 you'll be pissed??? What happened to you, dude? Who hurt you?

They're still expanding to the street level heroes. The reason they're not making that expansion on film is because it limits them from expanding street AND expanding something else. It's that simple. You can have a big A or you can have a big B and a (possibly) little A. You say they're relentless and not easily satisfied, but it sounds like you want them to be.

Secondly,I think these Street Level heroes could be an excellent contrast to The Avengers, think about it,none of The Avengers have secret identities and they are all really famous and loved by people, while the Street-level heroes are masked vigilantes who supposedly take laws in their own hands and sometimes in extreme ways(Punisher and Daredevil), they could have been shown to be intimidating to the people and government much like the X-men, that could have been a great back drop for a Civil War movie,that story line, despite not being perfect is imo one of the most iconic in Marvel comics and the movies have an opportunity to improve upon them

Because lets face it,the reason why The Avengers was such a big success was not just because our favorite heroes teamed up, it was also because they fought each other aswell and that is why internal conflicts will be a constant part of the Avengers movies.What better internal conflict movie than Civil War?

At present they would have to create forced rifts between Captain Amercia and Tony Stark and that would seem hypocritical given how Tony was against government taking control of his armour in IM2 and how Captain has learned never to trust the authorities after the events of TWS

Civil War isn't happening at present. There's plenty of time to create natural rifts between the two. Also, Cap doesn't distrust all authority, just ones that are controlled by HYRDA. Tony isn't against government taking control of stuff, he's just against that government not being him.

Character infighting is part of the appeal, but that part loses it's appeal when you're not as invested in one side of the conflict, and one side is vastly overpowered. We want to see IM vs Thor, IM vs Hulkbuster, because they're evenly matched and we care about these characters. Those reasons don't extend to Cap vs Punisher, or Thor vs Iron Fist, so you'd have to make up new reasons which might not be as appealing as the reasons we already have in place and can continue to develop. Your version of Civil War is cool, but it's not ideal.

Let me be clear,at present only Daredevil has been commissioned.Based on his success Marvel will go ahead with Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and based on their success they will go ahead with the Defenders mini-series.It doesn't help that these things are not as profitable as the movies.

What I mean is that there is too much pressure on each of them,if god forbid, Daredevil isn't well received,Marvel might easily not make another season and put him on the shelf for another decade.There is too much risk

Compared to say the new Doctor Strange or Ant-man movie,even if they aren't that well received,they will still make a set amount of money (500M) based on the Marvel tag alone,enough to sanction a sequel and they will definitely get their time in the upcoming Avengers, the risk isn't that much

Others have noted all have been ordered. Profitability is not a factor. You consider this a great risk because you hold a large amount of misinformation. Marvel who understands how Netflix works and what the benefits to the brand are has made a huuuuge long term commitment and strategy for their street level heroes. And even if it had to make money somehow, if the Marvel tag is enough to make a film successful, it's enough to make a Netflix show successful. We've seen what it's done for AoS. The show is not a person... putting pressure on it just means more work will be put on making it awesome. The Daredevil TV show is not going to throw up its hands and say "I just can't take the pressure." Same will all the pressure of expanding the cosmic universe with Guardians of the Galaxy, it only made things better.

All signs point to awesomeness. I'm having trouble understanding your point of view now. You know the Marvel brand guarantees a good reception, but you think that DD Netflix series will somehow be immune? Even AoS hasn't been immune, and that's been at times a bad show, but still one of the most viewed. The best I can guess is that you are holding onto this fear that DD will be like AoS in any way whatsoever. Is that it? Is that how you feel?

 

[Spiderdevil]

So if Mockingbird shows up in Cap 3 you'll be pissed??? What happened to you, dude? Who hurt you?

Yeah because I don't follow AoS

Civil War isn't happening at present. There's plenty of time to create natural rifts between the two. Also, Cap doesn't distrust all authority, just ones that are controlled by HYRDA. Tony isn't against government taking control of stuff, he's just against that government not being him.

Not only is Civil War happening,it is happening within 2 years and it is getting shoehorned into a Captain America film
Marvel has wasted a great opportunity of widening their universe by the same old Tony Stark Vs Steve Rogers when they could have added and involved a whole new rooster of superheroes

Character infighting is part of the appeal, but that part loses it's appeal when you're not as invested in one side of the conflict, and one side is vastly overpowered. We want to see IM vs Thor, IM vs Hulkbuster, because they're evenly matched and we care about these characters. Those reasons don't extend to Cap vs Punisher, or Thor vs Iron Fist, so you'd have to make up new reasons which might not be as appealing as the reasons we already have in place and can continue to develop. Your version of Civil War is cool, but it's not ideal.

Put Hulk with the Street Heroes and everything becomes balanced
He has always been running away from the government so he would obviously be anti-reg

All signs point to awesomeness. I'm having trouble understanding your point of view now. You know the Marvel brand guarantees a good reception, but you think that DD Netflix series will somehow be immune? Even AoS hasn't been immune, and that's been at times a bad show, but still one of the most viewed. The best I can guess is that you are holding onto this fear that DD will be like AoS in any way whatsoever. Is that it? Is that how you feel?

I am looking at Daredevil the same way I looked at Iron Man 1 when it was being made in 2008,the start of a bigger universe and everything depends on the success of the first one,had Iron Man 1 failed,there would have been no MCU

And for all practical purposes Daredevil is separate from the movie universe,the creative team is different(Feige isn't involved in his own words),they have announced movies till 2020 and that makes sure that a Daredevil movie won't be done till then,and it pisses me off since he is supposed to be Marvel's biggest character and while everybody and their mother gets a movie and Daredevil gets a TV Show(Being budget friendly isn't an excuse for me,even Batman is budget friendly).They can do a lot with a bigger budget,Daredevil is an acrobatic genius(like Mystique)

And no,I am not really the 'TV smaller than cinema guy',It just beats me that why do they see the need to make a mini-universe when these guys have the potential to be movie material.It works with AoS and Agent Carter since they are the lower down guys and work on TV.

Plus they are beginning things from square one on TV and the same creative team isn't involved.