Comics Why do people hate Carnage?

[MJXSM_FOREVER!!]

Well it's opposites. So peter is smart but very poorly educated and never got a chance to use his brains for much and when he has it's been to help humanity. People like Osborn and Ock have had all the advantages of education and money (norman with his company, ock with grants and such) but rather than helping people they've used their knowledge for selfish and self serving methods.

But they would have to be something more then just scientist to be special to spidey as villains. Could understand maybe green goblin being a antispider-man sense he has the combination of superpower gadgets and being a genius. As for Doc ock he is no more antispider-man then most of spider-mans villains.

 

[November Rain]

i don't think there is an antispiderman as such, a large collection of spiderman's rogues could be considered antispiderman

venom
scorpion
ock
norman osborne
harry osborne
kaine

i'd also like to state where there are antispidermen arches, there is also an anti-peter parker arch as well

but evidence is inconclusive to really draw any straws, it all depends on how the writers wanted to portray them

 

[Godzilla2014]

i don't think there is an antispiderman as such, a large collection of spiderman's rogues could be considered antispiderman

venom
scorpion
ock
norman osborne
harry osborne
kaine

i'd also like to state where there are antispidermen arches, there is also an anti-peter parker arch as well

but evidence is inconclusive to really draw any straws, it all depends on how the writers wanted to portray them

Agreed. Many of them are the opposite of Spider-Man in a particular aspect:
Venom is what Peter could be if he let his misfortune turn him evil and use his powers for evening scores and kicking ass.
Doc Ock is what Peter's scientific genius could inflate his ego to without modesty to keep it in check.
Norman Osborn is what Peter would be if he used his power to seize control of the world around him through violence.

 

[DACrowe]

I don't hate Carnage, actually. Just like most things related to the symbiotes, he is underwritten and appears in few good stories despite his amount of overexposure.

However, visually he is great and in theory--a serial killer who gets superpowers trying to bring civilization down to anarchic madness--is scary and intriguing. Honestly, his motives are much more believable and interesting than Venom's are in 616. In Carnage's first appearance he was a breath of fresh air to the Venom who is living on a deserted island happily because he "killed" Spider-Man and whines and whines about the innocents.

But the execution of Carnage since that appearance (no pun intended) has been less than stellar, in my opinion.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I don't hate Carnage, actually. Just like most things related to the symbiotes, he is underwritten and appears in few good stories despite his amount of overexposure.

However, visually he is great and in theory--a serial killer who gets superpowers trying to bring civilization down to anarchic madness--is scary and intriguing. Honestly, his motives are much more believable and interesting than Venom's are in 616. In Carnage's first appearance he was a breath of fresh air to the Venom who is living on a deserted island happily because he "killed" Spider-Man and whines and whines about the innocents.

But the execution of Carnage since that appearance (no pun intended) has been less than stellar, in my opinion.

For the most part, I agree. I'll say that what Venom lacks in motivation, he makes up for in his chemistry with Spider-Man.

Carnage's psychology is interesting, but it seems like no writer cares about using it. Cletus Kasady views violence as a means to take control of his life.

That said, there's still a big question of redundancy. Can there two symbiote villains coexist without undermining each other? After all, Hobgoblin went away after Green Goblin returned.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I think the writers wrote themselves into a corner with Carnage. He is all about chaos and "no plans." So all that leaves him as is a killing machine. As DACrowe said, the idea of a villain obsessed with anarchy is a great one but the way he was conceived limited his practical use. How will he keep reader interest when all he has to offer are gratuitous fight scenes? He could try and bring down a government or something, but even that would mean he had some sort of plan, and he is fundamentally against any planning at all. You would have to change the character's motivations to make him last the long term and to change his motivation is to really drastically change the character.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I think the writers wrote themselves into a corner with Carnage. He is all about chaos and "no plans." So all that leaves him as is a killing machine. As DACrowe said, the idea of a villain obsessed with anarchy is a great one but the way he was conceived limited his practical use. How will he keep reader interest when all he has to offer are gratuitous fight scenes? He could try and bring down a government or something, but even that would mean he had some sort of plan, and he is fundamentally against any planning at all. You would have to change the character's motivations to make him last the long term and to change his motivation is to really drastically change the character.

Agreed.
I think the best alternative is to depower him somewhat, so that Spider-Man vs Carnage is a battle of wits, like with serial killers in the real world. A Carnage who was more methodical could be more interesting, in my opinion.

Hell, I might recommend taking the symbiote from Cletus Kasady for a while, make him into a very realistic serial killer in the Marvel Universe, and THEN give him his symbiote back.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Heavens, cleatus is not a serial killer he's a spree killer it's quite a difference. It's like saying I wish that arsonists was more a child molester.

 

[MJXSM_FOREVER!!]

Heavens, cleatus is not a serial killer he's a spree killer it's quite a difference. It's like saying I wish that arsonists was more a child molester.

Actually Cletus Kasady was a serial killer. How ever he became more of a spree killer when he became Carnage.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Actually Cletus Kasady was a serial killer. How ever he became more of a spree killer when he became Carnage.

They called him that but what he did contradicts that statement. It's like when sherlock holmes uses deduction to figure something out even though he's never once used deductive reasoning (he uses inductive and abductive reasoning). Serial killers are so because they have a specific type that they hunt (most probably women, followed by gay men, followed by children). Carnage didn't have a type, he killed recklessly and randomly of all types and across all lines making him a spree killer. Whenever he got out he didn't hunt this person or that person methodically he just slashed and murdered in brutal ways making him the exact definition of a spree killer.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Heavens, cleatus is not a serial killer he's a spree killer it's quite a difference. It's like saying I wish that arsonists was more a child molester.

My point is that I would like to see Cletus Kasady portrayed as more like a real-world psychopath and less like a slasher movie villain.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Actually, Kasady is a mass murderer.

http://drkafkasnotebook.blogspot.com/2011/08/gargan-macdonald-aka-scorpion.html

Yes, the link says Gargan but trust me, it leads to Kasady.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Actually, Kasady is a mass murderer.

http://drkafkasnotebook.blogspot.com/2011/08/gargan-macdonald-aka-scorpion.html

Yes, the link says Gargan but trust me, it leads to Kasady.

A mass murderer simply means a person that has killed four or more people in a single occurrence.

Also, is there any reason that the link says Scorpion?

 

[Hobgoblin]

A mass murderer simply means a person that has killed four or more people in a single occurrence.

Also, is there any reason that the link says Scorpion?

Yes, thats right. Which is what Kasady has done, again and again. Serial killers tend to have a specific type of victim that they search for. Carnage has no set "type."


That post was originally meant to analyze the Scorpion, but when Scorpy proved too similar to villains already analyzed, he was dropped.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yes, thats right. Which is what Kasady has done, again and again. Serial killers tend to have a specific type of victim that they search for. Carnage has no set "type."


That post was originally meant to analyze the Scorpion, but when Scorpy proved too similar to villains already analyzed, he was dropped.

Good point.

Say, speaking of Scorpion, does he have a thread on this site?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Good point.

Say, speaking of Scorpion, does he have a thread on this site?

I dont think so.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I dont think so.

Now there is!