Why hate FOX?

[R_Hythlodeus]

Does Marvel not have the Kree? That would present a big problem for a potential Captain Marvel/Ms. Marvel film.

They do. They appear in GotG.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

They do. They appear in GotG.

Okay. I was worried there for a minute. I haven't been following GotG.

 

[roach]

Possibly - I'm not certain how these rights agreements work. If Marvel didn't claim the term "Iron Patriot", could Sony have had Norman Osborne wear an Iron Man type suit in a future ASM installment? I don't know for sure, but it certainly appears that Marvel Studios is being more aggressive in claiming character rights post Avengers.

without having access to the actual contracts I would say that, for example: X-men and associated characters. So if next Tuesday Marvel created Super X-Man in the comics he would be fair game in an X-men movie.
The problem with Marvel is that a lot of their characters have been all over the place. She Hulk has been and Avenger and a member of the FF. Where does she fall?

 

[Green Goblin]

Lol QS was in Singer's script and wasn't just thrown in. There is no evidence to suggest Singer but him in to piss off Marvel.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Lol QS was in Singer's script and wasn't just thrown in. There is no evidence to suggest Singer but him in to piss off Marvel.

You've read the script?

 

[psylockolussus]

He didn't. But Bryan Singer already explained himself.

of course there's people who wouldn't believe that.

 

[starscream22]

Sure Brian Singer claims that QS was in the works but what's to say he wasn't lying in order to save face? It wouldn't be the first time that Hollywood has falsified something. Especially with the clear disconnect between him and Mark Miller being so evident.

Worse case scenario is that Fox made and executive decision to add QS once Whedon teased about him and SW and then did a quick script rewrite. Which happens all the time.

Least case scenario is that Fox did legitimately have plans for this character. But the method in which Singer choose to present him via the now infamous "Before he was an Avenger.." Tweet still seemed like piggybacking off of Marvel in yet a long list of recent piggybacking and jumping Marvel's bang wagon by Fox. Securing the original Cyclops should've been their biggest priority here. These are the things that even the general audience pick up on but Fox fans seem to just get defensive and fire back at the MCU as if that changes things.

Marvel Studios isn't perfect by a long shot. But in my opinion the turning point for Fox's mediocre to outright terrible comic books films came once Nolan made Dark Knight. But Ironman's box office debut ending north of $500 million that same year due mostly because of a quality script and a good actor didn't help Fox much either. Again MS isn't perfect but Mark Miller and Hugh Jackman seems to love'em despite what some Fox fans here think.

 

[psylockolussus]

of course there's people who wouldn't believe that.

I was right! t:

 

[MarvelFan]

I'm a Marvel Characters fan, in the real world.

This means changing things doesn't bother me if they work better for the big screen.

I am open to ALL Marvel movies. ALL are valid, ALL have crappy movies in their record, ALL adapt and dilute the source material, ALL have good and bad attempts.

The people who don't consider non-MCU movie as "not really Marvel movies" aren't real marvel fans.

THIS! 100xtimes

just like i said weeks ago in Fox's Universe thread...that I'm a Marvel fan, I love all Marvel characters!! I love X-Men, I love Daredevil, I love Iron Man, I love Thor, I love Spider-Man, I love Wolverine, I love Fantastic Four, I love Deadpool, I love Hulk, I love Ms.Marvel, I love Captain America, I love Wasp, I love Rocket Raccoon, I love Silver Surfer...Bottom line: I LOVE ALL MARVEL CHARACTERS!!!

so that's why when it comes to big screen, I support all Marvel movies, whether its official Marvel under Disney or under its foster parents under Fox and Sony. (though i won't deny it that should every characters handled by their biological parent A.K.A Marvel, their greatness can be pushed to their best maximum potentials)

and i agree with you, droidwarrior that not all of those movies were considered good....some were bad, actually...
besides, all bad Marvel movies were all in the past, I didn't remember watching bad Marvel movies since that horrible Spider-Man 3 (2007)...for Wolverine Origins and Iron Man 2, I'd say that i loved those two movies. Even i loved Iron Man 2 more than IM3

Even I'd say that if i have to choose, I'll pick some considered worst Marvel movies by most (Iron Man 2, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, X-Men: Last Stand, Blade, Elektra) over the best DC movies like Dark Knight & Man of Steel anytime....yes, maybe i can be called a Marvel bias or I was out of mind.. I don't mind, but that's what MARVEL fan is really about in my opinion

I clearly don't understand why there are so called "Marvel fans" bashing and wish Marvel Studios' movies to fail?????
the same also there are marvel fans who wish Marvel movies under Fox and Sony to fail?? what is going on??

And, since DC has made up their plan by bringing their cinematic universe in the next upcoming years, I kind of sad that Marvel fans are splitting up like this...(unlike us Marvel fans, DC fans will be able to support their movies and characters to the fullest and won't have such argument like this since all of their characters are under the same parent...) I really want that us Marvel fans can support our beloved characters to the fullest too when it comes out. That's my hope.

 

[def28]

I clearly don't understand why there are so called "Marvel fans" bashing and wish Marvel Studios' movies to fail?????
the same also there are marvel fans who wish Marvel movies under Fox and Sony to fail?? what is going on??

I think there are 3 reasons why some are like that.

#1 Fox and Marvel won't really cooperate with sharing, and alot of people would like to see FF and Silver Surfer with The Avengers and Guardians. If FF fails, then theres a better chance of Marvel getting the rights back. With X-Men people don't really care as much since they can have so many films and a big universe to themselves.

#2 For awhile in between 2004 and 2009 Fox made quite a few flicks to give them a bad rep. X3, Elektra, FF, FF2, and XMOW were not received well by fans. That's a bad streak. To top it off there are comments from Tom Rothman at the time saying "**** the fans we have their money". So it's pretty easy to see why people would want the rights reverted back and for Fox movies to fail for awhile. But...

...Rothman is gone now, and Fox has made some solid X-Men flicks. That bad run of films still lingers with some, but their rep has def gotten better. If things continue on the path they are on, a majority of people won't care who holds the rights because the movies are currently good.... at least with X-Men. Since there is a big demand to see FF at home with The Avengers theres probably always gonna be some strong MCU fan hate there regardless of the next films quality. Doesn't mean that will be the case for everyone. I'm sure a large majority of the members on here will judge the film accordingly.

#3 The biased Fox fans hate the MCU only fans because they don't ***** about The MCU's changes like they do with Fox films, and think that studio can do wrong. Since they always want the Fox films to revert that pisses them off, so they start getting heated against Marvel because of the fan negativity towards their films.

As long as all studios are making good films, there won't be as much bashing. Theres always gonna be those biased MCU and Fox bashers, but they won't be the majority.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

^ good posts both of you guy

Especially agreed with #3 def28. The rights talk gets tiresome and annoying if you're a fan of properties where they are and the hypocrisy of comic to screen changes.

Lol QS was in Singer's script and wasn't just thrown in. There is no evidence to suggest Singer but him in to piss off Marvel.

Not only that,but they'd been casting him before Whedon mentioned they might use QS too.

 

[DrCosmic]

#2 For awhile in between 2004 and 2009 Fox made quite a few flicks to give them a bad rep. X3, Elektra, FF, FF2, and XMOW were not received well by fans. That's a bad streak. To top it off there are comments from Tom Rothman at the time saying "**** the fans we have their money". So it's pretty easy to see why people would want the rights reverted back and for Fox movies to fail for awhile. But...

...Rothman is gone now, and Fox has made some solid X-Men flicks. That bad run of films still lingers with some, but their rep has def gotten better. If things continue on the path they are on, a majority of people won't care who holds the rights because the movies are currently good.... at least with X-Men. Since there is a big demand to see FF at home with The Avengers theres probably always gonna be some strong MCU fan hate there regardless of the next films quality. Doesn't mean that will be the case for everyone. I'm sure a large majority of the members on here will judge the film accordingly.

This is the core of it, really. Fox has turned things around and made good films, superhero films as well as sci fi films and gotten out of their executive meddling phase. But some people are still emotionally hurt about that time period - understandably so, it wasn't long ago - and they refuse to see how things have changed. How Fox is not some evil company, but simply a company run by people... in the case of superhero films, different people than the ones that hurt them so during the late 2000s.

 

[Destructus86]

This is the core of it, really. Fox has turned things around and made good films, superhero films as well as sci fi films and gotten out of their executive meddling phase. But some people are still emotionally hurt about that time period - understandably so, it wasn't long ago - and they refuse to see how things have changed. How Fox is not some evil company, but simply a company run by people... in the case of superhero films, different people than the ones that hurt them so during the late 2000s.

GOOD films...but not great films. I still feel like they haven't reached the standard Marvel has set.

 

[Lord]

Marvel Studio films aren't really that good to begin with, they're good but nothing exceptional, the great thing about the Avengers how they were able to handle it and make it an event, but the plot was nothing to write home about.

X-Men 2 and First Class are better than most of what MS has givven us, while Fantastic Four and origins are worse than anything Marvel has ever given.

 

[dodong27]

I'm just excited that Fox is willing to give us an X-Force movie directed by Jeff Wadlow (Kick-Ass 2). Jeff Wadlow was on KROQ radio this morning and he literally had to beg and pitch his idea to Fox Studios, and eventually Fox liked Jeff's ideas and gave it to him. Jeff said he'll be working hard on the X-Force for the next 2 years, but he didn't give any indication of which members will be in X-Force.

I for one hope/wish that Psylocke will be included!!!!!!!

 

[DrCosmic]

GOOD films...but not great films. I still feel like they haven't reached the standard Marvel has set.

Hmmm... I would agree with Lord. The only MCU films that qualify as great, imho are Avengers and Iron Man. The others are good. Some are very good, but then so was XMFC, so was X2. And when we're talking about sci-fi so were Chronicle and Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Has Fox given us a genre redefining film like Avengers? No, but Fox did almost create the modern superhero genre with X-Men. They're the ones that paved the way for Marvel Studios, for whatever that is worth.

But people don't just look at Fox as 'they haven't/can't do an Avengers-level epic' but rather, they can't even do X2 or XMFC (or XMFC wasn't good because it underperformed... even though it's getting a huge sequel) or their success with all their recent sci fi properties doesn't bode well for their superhero ones. I could understand people not liking Fox as much as Marvel Studios... but hating Fox?

 

[Xeno]

This thread is mistitled. It should be called: Why defend Fox? Or better yet: Why hate Marvel?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

GOOD films...but not great films. I still feel like they haven't reached the standard Marvel has set.

And Marvel gives us consistently great films? Only Iron Man and Avengers reach that level. Certainly not Cap and Thor, both of which were inferior to First Class I thought.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

This thread is mistitled. It should be called: Why defend Fox? Or better yet: Why hate Marvel?

Sounds like someone is still 'emotionally hurt'

 

[Dr Tactics]

The hate is all geared at Fox because of the insistence on keeping the Fantastic Four rights IMO. I bet you if news of a deal was made public on inclusion in the MCU this thread would be none and void. It's all about the F4...

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

This is the core of it, really. Fox has turned things around and made good films, superhero films as well as sci fi films and gotten out of their executive meddling phase. But some people are still emotionally hurt about that time period - understandably so, it wasn't long ago - and they refuse to see how things have changed. How Fox is not some evil company, but simply a company run by people... in the case of superhero films, different people than the ones that hurt them so during the late 2000s.

Great point

Marvel Studio films are really that good to begin with, they're good but nothing exceptional, the great thing about the Avengers how they were able to handle it and make it an event, but the plot was nothing to write home about.

X-Men 2 and First Class are better than most of what MS has givven us, while Fantastic Four and origins are worse than anything Marvel has ever given.

Agreed.

Imo. Both are about equal in terms of good to poor movies.

The hate is all geared at Fox because of the insistence on keeping the Fantastic Four rights IMO. I bet you if news of a deal was made public on inclusion in the MCU this thread would be none and void. It's all about the F4...

What alot of people fail to realise is Fox have no logical reason to "give" the rights back.

 

[def28]

Marvel Studio films are really that good to begin with, they're good but nothing exceptional, the great thing about the Avengers how they were able to handle it and make it an event, but the plot was nothing to write home about.

X-Men 2 and First Class are better than most of what MS has givven us, while Fantastic Four and origins are worse than anything Marvel has ever given.

Theres no right answer. Claiming one is better then the other, or the other has no plot is just another thing that just causes Fox VS Marvel debates. I could say Iron Man 1 has a higher percentage of reviews and a bigger audience then FC/X2 so that automatically proves it's a better film and I'm sure that would stir up quite a few X-Men fans. Doesn't matter in the end. FC, X2 and most the Mavrel flicks are well made. All those films can be subjective depending on the viewers preference for tone or characters.

This is the core of it, really. Fox has turned things around and made good films, superhero films as well as sci fi films and gotten out of their executive meddling phase. But some people are still emotionally hurt about that time period - understandably so, it wasn't long ago - and they refuse to see how things have changed. How Fox is not some evil company, but simply a company run by people... in the case of superhero films, different people than the ones that hurt them so during the late 2000s.

Yeah, it's an interesting time for Fox with their Marvel properties. I'm very curious on their next steps to expand their Universe. They have enough X-Men and stories to make quite an epic universe if done right.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

This is the core of it, really. Fox has turned things around and made good films, superhero films as well as sci fi films and gotten out of their executive meddling phase. But some people are still emotionally hurt about that time period - understandably so, it wasn't long ago - and they refuse to see how things have changed. How Fox is not some evil company, but simply a company run by people... in the case of superhero films, different people than the ones that hurt them so during the late 2000s.

Once you have earned a bad reputation, it takes ages to repair the damage. Fox is learning that right now. And while they have gotten better, there are still times they lapse into their old ways. A Good Day to Die Hard just came out this year and it was like a checklist of the things Fox did to ruin films during the peak of the Rothman years.

And again, I feel I need to drive this point home because some people still don't seem to get it, between 2003 when X2 was released and 2011 when First Class was released, a period of EIGHT YEARS, Fox released FIVE Marvel films and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was wretched filth. I can't emphasize that enough. That's not counting the other countless number of films they ruined in that time period (ex. Kingdom of Heaven, LXG, Alien vs. Predator, etc.). Their reputation was rightfully earned and it will take more than a couple of films to change that. It will take years of good will for Fox to dig themselves out of the hole they've dug. If DOFP, X-Force, and the Fantastic Four reboot are all great films, then maybe.

 

[Dr Tactics]

Great point



Agreed.

Imo. Both are about equal in terms of good to poor movies.



What alot of people fail to realise is Fox have no logical reason to "give" the rights back.

As true as that is they, Fox, can't really make money off of them either if they choose to go forward in releasing it either. So I could understand more if they had a financial reason to keep the rights for a quality reboot. That's not the case though. But to keep just so either A) We don't want Marvel to profit so we'll lose money in the meantime by making a cheap film with little to no return or B) just make Marvel wait until the 11th hour to say like Daredevil request they need more time and it reverts anyway. Fox has no real leverage with the FF so they need to cut the BS and concentrate on the Marvel property that's gonna reap dividends. The X-movie. This just highlights they're stupidity and we've experienced the stupidity many times before in the Rothmsn era.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

As true as that is they, Fox, can't really make money off of them either if they choose to go forward in releasing it either. So I could understand more if they had a financial reason to keep the rights for a quality reboot. That's not the case though

If that's true neither would Disney.


As long as they don't go crazy with the budget they'll break even at the very least. Superhero movies are hot right now and will have an audience

They know that with it being a first movie (since it's a reboot) and Fantastic Four being B-Listers and the poor earlier FF movies, they won't make a large profit even if the film is amazing.

They are probably hedging their bets by trying to make it into a franchise that gains viewers over time and gains profits over time.

I don't mind who makes it personally but saying they should just give it to disney is like saying disney should just give Inhumans to Fox.

Neither company is gonna give up a franchise they can build up & make money from. Thats just how it is.