Why hate FOX?

[Incrediblejeff]

Hell yeah, most of the movies are good but just as innaccurate as Sony/Fox. MCu fanboys are worse than Nolanties for bias loyalty
.

As a person who remains neutral.I have to agree with this.The MCU isn't flawless ditto for FOX and SONY,but the MCU fans are becoming a broken record.I think I'm getting a little bored with the phrase "revert to Marvel" in almost every thread.I'm like yeah we get it.I have nightmares about seeing that phrase.I

'm also noticing that some of the people on the FF forums don't really give a damn about what happens to the F4.They mostly just want to see Dr. Doom and Galactus in an Avengers movie.So some people would rather see the villains revert and leave the rest of the F4 to rot.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Ok, FOX has made some stinkers e.g DD, F4 1 and 2 and a few others. In my opinion MS has had a few like IM2 and IM3. I find it odd how people are slamming FOX for making Wolverine the star of the X-Men considering Marvel are doing the same with Iron Man e.g every MCU film references him, cameos and now making him the creator of Ultron...

This just isn't true.

Of the six X-Men movies there are two Wolverine solo films, three others in which Wolverine dominates the screentime, and one in which he only makes a cameo.

Of the seven MCU films, three are Iron Man solos, one is an ensemble in which he nowhere near hogs as much of the screen as Wolverine in the X-Men team films, one in which he has a cameo, one in which he is mentioned once, and one in which his father has a minor supporting role.

Only 4 of 7 MCU films have Iron Man in a major role (and none of the next three to be released do) versus 5 of 6 for Wolverine (not including the next one in which he also does). This time next year it will be 4 of 10 for Iron Man versus 6 of 7 for Wolverine.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

In fact, I'm not even sure what the argument is.

To be honest the entire premise of this thread is stupid and seemingly intentionally provocative. yes, there are people who dislike Fox's treatment, just as there are those who feel the same about Marvel, WB whomever. Each studio has it's own supporters as well but the large majority doesn't give a damn about studio loyalty, they just want good films.

But threads like this only serve to rile people up and make them pick sides and start throwing rocks at the other guy. It doesn't matter how often one has sang the praises of Singer's X-Men, or the Daredevil DC, or how critical one has been of MS treatment of Ed Norton, or how much of a missed opportunity one feels the first Cap film was, or how overexposed RDJ is, or how one thinks writing Hank Pym out of Ultron's creation is a crappy idea. No, because one has the gall to dislike X3 and the FF films and would prefer the FF to revert to MS where it's far more thematically appropriate one is automatically labeled blind and sneered at and called a fanboy and a 'broken record'.

And I think that's what it really boils down to. "You sad bad things about a movie I liked! ENRAGE!" It's garbage.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think it is a fair question, but it is in the wrong forum. As mentioned several times in this thread, it isn't a Marvel issue. Fox's name really is mud within the film industry, for far more than just their comic book films. Sure they make some great films, but overall they are known as being one of the most meddlesome and dirty of the major studios.

Rothman going to Sony might change things.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I think it is a fair question, but it is in the wrong forum. As mentioned several times in this thread, it isn't a Marvel issue. Fox's name really is mud within the film industry, for far more than just their comic book films. Sure they make some great films, but overall they are known as being one of the most meddlesome and dirty of the major studios.

Rothman going to Sony might change things.

True, too bad certain folks felt compelled to turn it into that.

And I can't believe Sony hired Rothman. Ugh.

 

[Teelie]

To be honest the entire premise of this thread is stupid and seemingly intentionally provocative. yes, there are people who dislike Fox's treatment, just as there are those who feel the same about Marvel, WB whomever. Each studio has it's own supporters as well but the large majority doesn't give a damn about studio loyalty, they just want good films.

But threads like this only serve to rile people up and make them pick sides and start throwing rocks at the other guy. It doesn't matter how often one has sang the praises of Singer's X-Men, or the Daredevil DC, or how critical one has been of MS treatment of Ed Norton, or how much of a missed opportunity one feels the first Cap film was, or how overexposed RDJ is, or how one thinks writing Hank Pym out of Ultron's creation is a crappy idea. No, because one has the gall to dislike X3 and the FF films and would prefer the FF to revert to MS where it's far more thematically appropriate one is automatically labeled blind and sneered at and called a fanboy and a 'broken record'.

And I think that's what it really boils down to. "You sad bad things about a movie I liked! ENRAGE!" It's garbage.

That sounds about right. Somehow I just lost track of what the point was. It does make people end up defending studios, movies, actors, directors, etc who they normally wouldn't when trying to argue a differing point and then you get painted as a fanboy or hater.

It's true what you say though, it does boil down to "Hulk smash!" simplicity of someone disliking your opinion of a movie and getting defensive of it.

Obviously I agree Fox has fumbled with many of their movies I also like to think I was clear to everyone else in prior posts that I think other studios have fumbled as well. Particularly Disney, who owns Marvel is IMO fumbling as much as succeeding lately with massive hits offsetting massive flops.

Marvel at this point is the best one but look at how many movies they've made. Something in the neighborhood of a dozen. Then compare it to the thousands their competitors have. There's not many movies to have been screwed up by Marvel. Yet.

Narrowing it down to just superhero movies and Marvel is still behind in numbers compared to Sony or Disney or Fox. And many of those failures were "pre-golden age" era superhero movies too so the results are skewed.

 

[starscream22]

I could point to a number of factors that complicate it all; everything from the poor showing of the previous Superman movie to the controversy over the current one's ending and how similarly Wolverine's previous movie did not help it to why Iron Man did so surprisingly well but I'm not trying to defend the movie or be a fanboy/fox-men or anything else you'll want to sidetrack with.

In fact, I'm not even sure what the argument is. You pretty much just blasted the latest Wolverine movie and declared it a failure because you read something somewhere about Hollywood not caring about the global market despite the fact it's been more dependent than ever on it.

I'm not defending the movie's ticket sales. I liked it but then that's my opinion. I have no interest in seeing Man of Steel in the theater but I'm not going around looking for ways to declare it a failure either.

Also, that jab about yellow spandex was on the mark. Look at anyone who wears spandex in reality (especially yellow) and tell me it comes off anything but hilariously goofy.

Not if they modernize the suit like say like batman, Superman or even Spider-man. It also helps that they've all past the half billion mark. (nothing hilariously goofy about that)

Singer has you believing that if he can't create a decent Wolverine costume then it can't be done but I disagree and apparently every other studio making comic book movies.

There's a reason(s) they're at the bottom of the totem pole. So if not this then what?

 

[psylockolussus]

'm also noticing that some of the people on the FF forums don't really give a damn about what happens to the F4.They mostly just want to see Dr. Doom and Galactus in an Avengers movie.So some people would rather see the villains revert and leave the rest of the F4 to rot.

I noticed that too!

What does that even mean? Do you get a nerdgasm whenever you hear the 20th century fox trumpets at the start of a movie?

Not really, but I like it everytime I see it!

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

This just isn't true.

Of the six X-Men movies there are two Wolverine solo films, three others in which Wolverine dominates the screentime, and one in which he only makes a cameo.

Of the seven MCU films, three are Iron Man solos, one is an ensemble in which he nowhere near hogs as much of the screen as Wolverine in the X-Men team films, one in which he has a cameo, one in which he is mentioned once, and one in which his father has a minor supporting role.

Only 4 of 7 MCU films have Iron Man in a major role (and none of the next three to be released do) versus 5 of 6 for Wolverine (not including the next one in which he also does). This time next year it will be 4 of 10 for Iron Man versus 6 of 7 for Wolverine.

You're right. All of the X-Men movies felt like Wolverine movies to me, except First Class obviously. He was the central character in everything.

 

[Harley2004]

I certainly do not hate them. I do not want all marvel character movies going through that Disney/Marvel Studio filter. Thankfully that is not the case for all the characters.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I certainly do not hate them. I do not want all marvel character movies going through that Disney/Marvel Studio filter. Thankfully that is not the case for all the characters.

That's clearly not going to happen, as Spider-Man and X-men are far too valuable to ever lapse, and that's fine, they each work well enough as their own thing.

But I have yet to see a single plausible argument that the FF and associated elements belong anywhere but the MCU.

Do people really think that "A world that fears and mistrusts mutants, except for those 4 people who got powers from cosmic rays and are rich celebs" makes any kind of sense whatsoever?

Let Fox get the mutants in order, do stuff like X-Force and New Mutants and big crossovers like adapting Age of Apocalypse, with quality in mind, instead of cheap cash ins, and no one will complain.

Meanwhile MS gets a big name franchise like the FF back, lots of secondary elements and characters that work well within the universe they've established. Everyone wins!

 

[Silvermoth]

I wonder if, like Disney, fox may consider putting more marvel properties on television?

A xfactor series would be amazing except they would have to change the name

 

[Xeno]

I wonder if, like Disney, fox may consider putting more marvel properties on television?

A xfactor series would be amazing except they would have to change the name

I'm not sure, but I think that the TV rights for all franchises are with Disney. Certainly that's true for the cartoon side, where the shows on DisneyXD have used the FF characters.

 

[Green Goblin]

I want the studios to work together and create a massive universe. I never really got the argument that Marvel should have ALL the rights back. I mean do you really think if Marvel had the rights to Spider-Man they would be making the likes of Guardians of the Galaxy?

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

This just isn't true.

Of the six X-Men movies there are two Wolverine solo films, three others in which Wolverine dominates the screentime, and one in which he only makes a cameo.

Of the seven MCU films, three are Iron Man solos, one is an ensemble in which he nowhere near hogs as much of the screen as Wolverine in the X-Men team films, one in which he has a cameo, one in which he is mentioned once, and one in which his father has a minor supporting role.

Only 4 of 7 MCU films have Iron Man in a major role (and none of the next three to be released do) versus 5 of 6 for Wolverine (not including the next one in which he also does). This time next year it will be 4 of 10 for Iron Man versus 6 of 7 for Wolverine.

Don't agree.

Who saved Captain Americas butt in Germany?
Who fought Thor?
Who walked ino the briefing and spelled out what the villain was looking for?
Who was the one to talk smack to the supposed leader?
Who was the one to believe in Banner being able to control the beast?
Who was the one to title them The Avengers and face down the villain all alone?
Who was the one who sacrificed himself at the end?

It sure as hell wasn't Captain America the supposed "leader" and main character of the team. He was as main in Avengers as Wolverine was in any X-Men movie.

As a person who remains neutral.I have to agree with this.The MCU isn't flawless ditto for FOX and SONY,but the MCU fans are becoming a broken record.I think I'm getting a little bored with the phrase "revert to Marvel" in almost every thread.I'm like yeah we get it.I have nightmares about seeing that phrase.I.

Indeed. I go to a news article about Amazing Spider-Man 2 or DOFP and it's full of trolls talking about rights. **** i wanna read and talk about the movies at hand not another studio or rights and licensing and other business crap

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

The Fox hate is non-sensical, childish and hypocritical MCU fanboyism.

MCU fanboys delude themselves into thinking Marvel are perfect, comic accurate, respectful of the source material and only make the movies to please comic fans.

• The MCU is just as far removed from the source material as the XCU.

• Marvel is out to make money just like Fox, Sony and WB, they don't care anymore about the adaptions than others.

• Marvel has bastardised characters just as much as Fox.


Fox has been making X-Men movies for 13 years, thats 8 years longer than Marvel Studios, The XCU iis more established than the MCU.

Lets start at the beginning.

Marvel Enterprises sold the rights to their biggest characters to various movies studios as they were going bankrupt.
Fox didn't steal them by force, MARVEL sold them willingly to stay in business.

Why should Fox logically sell something they've been developing and are invested in for so long?

Without Fox and some other studios, but mainly Fox, and the money they paid Marvel for the characters, Marvel Comics may have gone under and wouldn't even have been able to start making movies.

Fox is indirectly responsible for the MCU coming to fruition.

Not only that but are responsible for kickstarting blockbuster Marvel movies, they and Bryan Singer were the first to bring iconic franchise marvel characters to the big screen and starting the genre.

Not all have been good, but Respect is due for their contributions to the genre, without them Marvel comics movies wouldn't be where they are now or possibly not at all.


Aside from that, lets look at the X-Men movies, their main focus.

4/6 are good to great movies, thats a 66% positive track record.

Disney is around 4/7 good to great movies, that's 57%.

So the X-Men movies have a better overall track record for quality than Disney. Now this is subjective based on individual opinion of movies but no matter how you shake it, it comes up at least even in good/bad movies.


MCU Fanboys complain about Fox bastardising and raping certain characters and claim Marvel would "do them right".

Well lets look at the differences of "correctly" adapted MCU characters and events:

• Jarvis is not an A.I but an actual Human butler.
• Red Skull wasn't created by Dr Erskine, he was trained by Hitler and given a Red Skull mask to invoke fear.
• Whiplash is bastardisation of Backlash and Crymson Dynamo with little resemblence to each character.
• Mandarin... you all know how that turned out.
• T'Challa gave the Vibranium Shield to Captain America not Howard Stark
• Steve Rogers didn't know Bucky Barnes before he became Captain America
• Jane Foster is a Nurse not a Scientist
• Antman and Wasp were among the founding members of The Avengers not Black Widow and Hawkeye.
• Aldrich Killian didn't form A.I.M he worked for Futurepharm, developed Extremis, sold a sample to some terrorists and feeling guilty killed himself
• Red Skull didn't use the Cosmic Cube in WW2
• Black Widow fought the Avengers and Iron Man long before joining them or SHIELD
• Thor isn't Thor the whole time. Odin placed his being into a disabled Medical Student Donald Blake, Blake found Mjoinir and transformed into Thor. He transforms back and forth and has this secret identity life too
• Heimdall and Sif and brother and sister in the Comics but not in the movies.
• SHIELD did not form the Avengers.

• Ultron was created by Hank Pym, aside from slapping his wife it's the only contribution he's made to the universe, they are taking that from him and giving it to Iron Man.

Disney is just as guilty of changing the comics for the screen. When you think of changing Ultrons origin a brillaint stroke but go nuts over changing an X-Men characters origin you are a bias hypocrite.


Fanboys claim that it's 'Wolverine and the X-Men' all the time and Marvel wouldn't do that.

Well the fact is that Wolverine is the most popular and bankable X-Man and is naturally the one to build the movies around.

Sound familiar?

That's because Marvel have done the same thing with Iron Man.

In just 5 years Tony Stark has made 5 appearances, thats one less than Wolverine over 13 years so to be sick of Wolverine taking the spotlight over 13 years and not sick of Iron Man taking the spotlight over less than half that time is hypocritical rubbish.

Let's look at The Avengers.

Who saved Captain Americas butt in Germany?
Who fought Thor?
Who walked ino the briefing and spelled out what the villain was looking for?
Who was the one to talk smack to the supposed leader?
Who was the one to believe in Banner being able to control the beast?
Who was the one to title them The Avengers and face down the villain all alone?
Who was the one to sacrificed himself at the end?

It sure as hell wasn't Captain America the supposed "leader" and main character of the team.

The Wolverine/Cyclops dynamic and screenhogging was played the same in the MCU with Iron Man/Captain America.


On to the costumes. Most don't like the costumes in the X-Men franchise, me included. But instead of asking why people just whine.

It's pretty clear. X-Men came right off of the Bat-Nipple campiness fiasco. Not only would the brightly coloured costume look odd in quite a grounded and serious movie but people weren't ready for such garish costumes. over time costumes became more colourful as the genre grew, but back in 2000 they'd have been laughed off the screen.


I'm a Marvel Characters fan, in the real world.

This means changing things doesn't bother me if they work better for the big screen.

I am open to ALL Marvel movies. ALL are valid, ALL have crappy movies in their record, ALL adapt and dilute the source material, ALL have good and bad attempts.

The people who don't consider non-MCU movie as "not really Marvel movies" aren't real marvel fans. It's the same as those who claim to be Batman fans but disregard everything except all mighty Nolan.

They're petty, ignorant pissants who need a reality check. and especially need to **** about rights and trying to make out that things are terrible before they have been even made or released.



Precisely, someone with common sense.

Don't agree.

Who saved Captain Americas butt in Germany?
Who fought Thor?
Who walked ino the briefing and spelled out what the villain was looking for?
Who was the one to talk smack to the supposed leader?
Who was the one to believe in Banner being able to control the beast?
Who was the one to title them The Avengers and face down the villain all alone?
Who was the one who sacrificed himself at the end?

It sure as hell wasn't Captain America the supposed "leader" and main character of the team.

Nice copy and paste.

MCU has had some changed material and their share of errors as well. But Fox has made MUCH worse mistakes.

X-Men Origins: Wolverine is right up on the list of bad CBMs with Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance, Elektra and Blade Trinity. X-Men The Last Stand was possibly the biggest disappointment of all CBMs, given how good X2 was. I couldn't even take the Fantastic Four movies seriously. I've never walked out of a movie in theaters, but I've considered it twice in my life: Ultraviolet and Elektra.

Look at their casting. They went more for big names to draw people in more than finding someone who fit the role. Jessica Alba as Sue Storm, Colin Ferrell as Bullseye, Jennifer Garner as Elektra, Ben Affleck as Daredevil. I will admit they had a few great casting choices (Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stewart). Now look at Marvel's casting: Chris Hemsworth as Thor, Chris Evans as Captain America, Robert Downey Jr., whose career was trash after his drug issues, as Tony Stark.

Marvel has made mistakes, but have made much better and much more consistent movies than Fox.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

yeah those aren't cherry-picked examples at all.

Also Cap wasn't the team leader straight away in the comics either. He was still preoccupied with his loss of time.

 

[metaphysician]

If Mandarin didn't have so many fans people wouldn't have overreacted so much, simple as that. I heard many even sent deat threats to Shane Black, now, do you even think those are the kind of people that don't care about the character?

Not necessarily. They can be people who are outraged about being "tricked", possibly with a dollop of post facto retroactive "fandom" to better justify the outrage.

 

[Zarex]

yeah those aren't cherry-picked examples at all.

Also Cap wasn't the team leader straight away in the comics either. He was still preoccupied with his loss of time.

I hate to date myself, but Iron Man was "Mr. Avenger" when I first started following the team during the Celestial Madonna, Bride of Ultron and Korvac saga arcs. He funded the team, they were headquartered in his house, and he lead the team into battle (often to Cap's chagrin, who criticized Shell-Head's part-time job as Stark's bodyguard). To me, The Golden Avenger has always been the most important member of the team, not Cap. IM taking center stage in the movies makes sense to me.

 

[blackdragon6]

and what about disney

prince of persia
crappy potc sequels
lone ranger
john carter
cars 2
alice in wonderland

just to name a few

every studio makes crappy films

atleast fox seems to be stepping it up lately

with avatar
first class
rise of apes
life of pi
the wolverine
chronicle

and things look promising for The Secret Life of Walter Mitty,DOFP,The Counselor

i see your point, but i wasn't realy talking about quality but the industry politics of the studio.

 

[blackdragon6]

I think it is a fair question, but it is in the wrong forum. As mentioned several times in this thread, it isn't a Marvel issue. Fox's name really is mud within the film industry, for far more than just their comic book films. Sure they make some great films, but overall they are known as being one of the most meddlesome and dirty of the major studios.

Rothman going to Sony might change things.

why are people overlooking this??

 

[blackdragon6]

You're right. All of the X-Men movies felt like Wolverine movies to me, except First Class obviously. He was the central character in everything.

that bother's me too, but i feel that DOFP is heading in the same direction.

 

[Lord]

Colin Ferrell was a bad pick for Bullseye? I watched the film years ago and didn't read much of Daredevil's comics, but along with the kingpin he was one of the few things i enjoed in the Daredevil film.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I enjoyed him too, had a lot of charisma.

why are people overlooking this??

Because it's the superhero side of them we CBM fans hear about the most.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Colin Ferrell was a bad pick for Bullseye? I watched the film years ago and didn't read much of Daredevil's comics, but along with the kingpin he was one of the few things i enjoed in the Daredevil film.

I felt like he was trying too hard to be psycho and veered off into slightly goofy. Not Looney Bin Jim level goofy (God help us) but he could have reined it in just a hair. Sometimes less is more. Of course MSJ might have pushed him into it also. Overall he was pretty cool tho