Why I think Story/Fox are starting off wrong

[Lightning Strykez!]

Ligtning, I agree that there is nothing wrong with voicing a different opinion. The problem with this thread is there's already half a dozen threads out there with people saying the same thing.

While I do respect the opinion of others, even those I disagree with, I feel this guy just opened up this thread to draw attention to himself. This thread really doesn't talk about anything in the new movie, it just rehashes old complaints from the first movie.

That's why so many of us feel this thread should be closed.

Yes, but for every "thread like this" there are a dozen threads saying the film will positively rock. Am I to close those too?

This forum reminds me of college football: You wanna go "Raa-Raa" like some Fantastic Cheerleaders? That's fine. Praise the film and be hyped for it!

But as in the case of a real-life sporting event, there will be other fans in the stands who will boo and cry foul. Learn to live with it, people.

The thread will not be closed. If people cannot discuss/debate the topic like they've got common sense, they will be banned. Simple.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I feel this guy just opened up this thread to draw attention to himself. This thread really doesn't talk about anything in the new movie, it just rehashes old complaints from the first movie.

No.
The impetus for making the thread was the first look at the new Thing make-up, after Story said they'd augmented the brow.....for the NEW movie.

Then threadmaker moved on to the rumor of a Silver Surfer love triangle...in the NEW movie

The whole reason he brought up the old complaints was to support his opinion, that it doesn't appear that the people involved gave enough consideration to the old complaints...while making the NEW movie.

Everyone paraded around Story's statements regarding improvements, so no one could make a judgement.
Recently, we had our first look at the Thing, and it looked atrocious, so some people are going to want to comment on it.

 

[Carp Man]

No. Recently, we had our first look at the Thing, and it looked atrocious, so some people are going to want to comment on it.

Do you speak for everyone ? I don't think so. I liked the way he looked in the 1st movie, and I like the subtle improvements made here. Now we all know you are not a fan, and that is cool, but do not make a blanket statement infering that everyone thinks it looks atrocious, there are more who think it does not then those who do. t: I am pumped for the sequel. Wish it was opening tomorrow. I would hate for you to be on the design crew. He would have a brow 10 feet wide. Sheesh. And I think Story knows just a bit more then both of us, and if he says the big brow would not look good on film, then I will defer to his judgement.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Do you speak for everyone ? I don't think so.

Seriously dude. What's the malfunction. I obviously meant those of us who didn't like it and want to talk about it. God this positivity-Nazi stuff gets old. Why not just stop clicking on threads that say "bad" or "wrong"?

I would hate for you to be on the design crew. He would have a brow 10 feet wide. Sheesh.

That's absurd.

I have said a hundred times that while it's not my ideal design (because to be faithful to 40 years worth of aesthetics the Thing would have to be all CGI), I would've even been happy with just:

Does that look 10 feet wide to you?

And I think Story knows just a bit more then both of us, and if he says the big brow would not look good on film, then I will defer to his judgement.

Pfffffwahahaha....preposterous.
He doesn't even know the difference between the words "Jest" and "Gist".
Are you going to defer to his brilliance there and rewrite all the dictionaries?

*gasp* you know, he's human and...could be wrong.
Uwe Boll and Ed Wood directed a lot of movies as well and know/knew a "bit more than both of us".....doesn't change the fact that they make/made incredibly crappy movies.

 

[TripleF]

Yes, but for every "thread like this" there are a dozen threads saying the film will positively rock. Am I to close those too?

This forum reminds me of college football: You wanna go "Raa-Raa" like some Fantastic Cheerleaders? That's fine. Praise the film and be hyped for it!

But as in the case of a real-life sporting event, there will be other fans in the stands who will boo and cry foul. Learn to live with it, people.

The thread will not be closed. If people cannot discuss/debate the topic like they've got common sense, they will be banned. Simple.

I must have missed those. So those that discuss without showing common sense will be banned. Damn, that means you're gonna ban 30+ people daily? wow. good luck.

BTW, I've only seen a few, possibly less, do as you say. "Raa-Raa" like some Fantastic Cheerleaders. Most around here are excited about the movie with some reservations. If thats "raa raa" then ok. hmmmm. I think I'm confused on the rules, but I'll catch up I'm sure and hopefully post with common sense. I certainly don't want to get banned.

Would a 50 Things Going Right for F4 2 be seen as a lack of common sense or too raa raa? I can think of at least 10 right now I believe, oh wait, no dumb me, thats my lack of common sense coming through. I'll try and think of a negative for each of my positives in the future.

I think I just got stung by the *sarcasm* bug that flies around here so often.

 

[echostation]

First CG, then now Man in a Suit for Silver Surfer

all I know with the awful effects of the stretchy effects for the first film, Silver Surfer is going to look bloody awful unless Weta can really pull it off, I think they can, but still doesn't excuse the crap effects job from the first film... 140 million spent on crap effects like that? Despite how bad X-men 3 was, at least the SFX were excellent relative to Fantastic Four.

And I'll say it again... They have started shooting since what August... AUGUST?? They're not even spending one GOD DAMN YEAR on this project? A project that least needs 2 years of full work and post production on it to really make an amazing film out of it. Fox truly are the cow humpers and they haven't learned from anything at all. They have LESS than one year to make a film about the SILVER SURFER, GALACTUS, and the Doom arc all in one film... BLOODY AWESOME

Go Rushed production schedules... Rushed is the way to go, there can't be any better way to film a movie of this magnitude without RUSHING IT YEAAAHHH

Let's see if "Taxi" Story here can actually make this even watchable... I doubt it given the production schedule so far. what a load of crap... one day, seriously just one day Fox is gonna learn.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Let's see if "Taxi" Story here can actually make this even watchable... I doubt it given the production schedule so far. what a load of crap... one day, seriously just one day Fox is gonna learn.

Learn what??? They are making money. As much as I dislike Fox and how they handle comic book properties the people are still going in droves to see their films.

 

[The Apatow Crew]

Nothings changed in here i see.

 

[HoratioRome]

No.
The impetus for making the thread was the first look at the new Thing make-up, after Story said they'd augmented the brow.....for the NEW movie.

Then threadmaker moved on to the rumor of a Silver Surfer love triangle...in the NEW movie

The whole reason he brought up the old complaints was to support his opinion, that it doesn't appear that the people involved gave enough consideration to the old complaints...while making the NEW movie.

Everyone paraded around Story's statements regarding improvements, so no one could make a judgement.
Recently, we had our first look at the Thing, and it looked atrocious, so some people are going to want to comment on it.

thank you. It's too late right now for me to respond to the other comments, but this post goes a LONG way in explaining this thread. SO thank you.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I've seen that go both ways. AND I don't really see anything along the lines of "jumping on them" from people that have some semblance of intelligence. I see some that are very excited about the sequel, and simply want people to give it a chance before slamming it. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't know of anyone that has had only "good things" to say about the first movie. I think when people give their opinions, negative, positive whatever about the first, most have been fine with that. But to slam a movie before it has even come out is alittle silly, in my opinion.

Yes some still want a bigger brow on Thing, ok. Some are happy with the changes made, but wanted a few more. Some were happy with his look before, some are still totally disgusted. I think 2 people fall into the last category.

But in my experience reading here and on other boards, a balanced opinion. (not riding the fence) but a balanced opinion goes a long way. Words like "true fans", "real fans" etc, kind of turn me off, and even though some may not use those exact terms, in their posting that is the point that comes across to me.

I enjoyed the first movie ALOT, there were some things I would like to see done better. My hope is that they will improve, and from what I've seen and heard so far, they are. I'm excited and positive about that. But I won't say the movie is going to "rock" until I've seen the movie. So to say the movie is going to suck, hits me in a negative way as well. I certainly hope my posts have not come across to anyone as "slamming" or "jumping on" someone. But please be ready for me to give my opinion, however positive or negative it may be in retort to someone else's. I think thats what you do on here, right?

I've actually read some very good conversations on this forum, I can't say that in my past reading around here that thats the case, and from what I've heard it has gotten very bad at times. I think AVEITWITHJAMON you are jumping the gun alittle in this particular conversation.

As far as Mike's and Matthooper's comments both pretty much hit me the same way and give me the same desire, which is to ignore.

Yes i know what you are saying, but some people on here take to the extreme, i remember when the first movie was in production saying anything except 'It looks awesome!' was practically a sin, and i see the same happening now and it angers me.

I hated the first movie, but i still want the sequel to be good because i like all CB to be good, but i am a little skeptical, and so are some others, but once they state it, they responded to with 'zzzzzzzzzzz' or 'mods this thread is crap close it,' its just a joke.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You're absolutely correct....people posting "ZZZZZZZZ" and rolling their eyes while some are actually discussing the movie and their concerns about it's production.

Lol, never ceases to make me chuckle, on the internet...all of the people who fail to see the irony in the way they constantly b**** and moan......about *gasp*......People Who B**** And Moan.
lol

Again, since people who have negative opinions are so despised here and constantly asked to be silent, I don't understand why you don't just Post a giant "WE'RE ALL EXCITED FOR THIS MOVIE AND THERE'S NOTHING THEY COULD'VE DONE ANY DIFFERENTLY OR BETTER.W00T!"

and then just lock the forum with a giant smiley face so we won't be attacked and accosted and molested by nasty people who say unhappy things.


nothing's changed since 2004.

Spot on

 

[TripleF]

Yes i know what you are saying, but some people on here take to the extreme, i remember when the first movie was in production saying anything except 'It looks awesome!' was practically a sin, and i see the same happening now and it angers me.

I hated the first movie, but i still want the sequel to be good because i like all CB to be good, but i am a little skeptical, and so are some others, but once they state it, they responded to with 'zzzzzzzzzzz' or 'mods this thread is crap close it,' its just a joke.

I wasn't here posting during that time, but I read some. And I'm sorry, but it was about 3 or 4 posters on here that really insulted people for any positive reaction to things from the first film. I mean name calling etc, and very little was done in that respect. Some got away with absolute hell in this place. I don't remember seeing your name at that time, I think I would remember it. When the movie came out you had a few like Thing2005 and a couple of others that would slam anyone for a negative view, I haven't seen that since I've been posting, so I think you may be alittle swayed, biased whatever you want to call it in your opinion, but hey you are welcome to it man, no problem here. I just see things here through alittle different viewfinder.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

...an admittedly less-informed viewfinder

 

[TripleF]

...an admittedly less-informed viewfinder

No just a different view in some cases. I don't see it as less informed, I see it as less bias.

I'm sorry, I certainly didn't mean for this to turn into a one group vs. another. Thats sad that it seems to get to that so quickly here. I understand and value different points of view. Thats what its all about, and I have no problem in using your opinion of the first to validate your problems with what you see in the second. I don't think I've ever said anything different from that. It seems to me that we are, ourselves, putting people into groups here. I don't see the reason for that.

The less informed group.
The positive group.
The negative group.

So what? Who cares what group you fall into. I don't give a crap what group someone puts me into, I just enjoy reading, and contributing every once in awhile. I think its more in the giving of the opinion, rather than the opinion itself that some may have a problem with.

So, back to the topic of the thread.

I have to disagree with the first post. I think Story has actually got a better hand on this movie than he did the first coming in from the very beginning. "MY HOPE" is that he is able to keep the strong hand and give the audience (not just comic fans) but the entire audience a movie they can enjoy, want to see again, and come out smiling having had a good time with family and friends. In reality will he be able to make all happy. Of course not, that is where I can only speak for myself, and I can expect others to speak for themselves. As long as they do that, and in their manner do not try and speak for "all". I'm totally cool with that. No worries, It's all good! My only problem is when people think they are speaking for me. No one does that, BUT me. =)

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

mmmm...no.

I wasn't here posting during that time,

I haven't seen that since I've been posting,

less-informed viewfinder, admittedly, as I said, and you said.

 

[TripleF]

mmmm...no.




less-informed viewfinder, admittedly, as I said, and you said.

The key word was "posting", I've been reading for a couple of years on this very site. Reading brings information. Therefore, I am informed quite a bit about postings, and posters on this site.

Admittedly I said I have not been posting, I also admittedly said I've been reading for awhile.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You can watch a person sky-diving on TV, but you don't know from sky-diving till you've jumped out of a plane. :meow:


ILH

 

[HoratioRome]

First of all, much credit to Lightning for not caving in and closing the thread as some people have asked.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people will simply choose a side and close their eyes to any evidence which contradicts this side.
it also never ceases to amaze me how much some people will create a false reality in order to support their POV.

Guys, this should not be fan vs fan topic. We are all here I assume because we love or have some interest in the Fantastic Four and/or Superheroes.
I understand how much some of us want these CBM (comic book movies) to be good. I get it. I made the same mistake once before. But we cannot allow our desires to blind our judgements.

The attacks leveled against me are unwarrated. What did I say that was so bad. Yes it may have been a bit crude for me to call Tim a liar, but I backed this up with a reason as to why I say so.

Come on guys, are you seriously telling me that The Thing cold not be designed with a bigger brow? that "it wouldn't look as good as we think"? In this day of Hollywood FX where they can make an octopus face man, and a live action Teenage mutant ninja turtle and all the other wonderfull make up designs of the past few years?
Brian Singer once said that Yellow doesn't work on the big screen and inspite of movies like Kill bill, game of death, Spy kids, and many more which PROVED this was not true, x fans took him at his word and attacked those of us who said it wasn't true.
you guys are doing the same thing with story.

It's so funny how people who claim that I don't speak for everyone themselves agree that they would like a bigger brow.

wouldn't YOU? seriously,,..big deal or not, if you had a choice would you not choose the bigger brow.

the point of this thread is that Tim/Fox spit (spat) in our faces by not making a better effort to give us this small little thing. Doesn't that upset you that we matter so little to them?

ok, even if it doesn't, the second point of the thread is to question what this means. If they couldn't give us this little change, why are you guys assuming that he will fix Doom, give us Silver Surfer as he is or that Galactus will be well presented?

Isn't the fact that Alba herself talks about the love triangle solid evidence? isn't it worriesome that they are basically doing the same thing that failed in the first FF?

My point is simple, the first FF movie missed the mark on some key issues. Tim/Fox recognized those issues (for those of you who like to tell me I don't speak for everyone, please remember that this message was loud and clear enough for TIM to have heard it).
He KNEW/KNOWS of the fan's desire to have a bigger brow, a better Doom and so on.
HE addressed these issues himself on his blog. So I am not wrong when I say that the majirity of us feel this way. It pretty obvious to TIM himself in fact.
But instead of ACTUALLY fixing them, SO FAR, based on the evidence we've seen, he hasn't.

so I'm worried about what else he will not fix.

Doesn't that make sense?

Finally, we must remember that Tim is just another human being like any of us. He lies, makes mistakes, and is wrong like any of us. just because he SAYS they fixed it, just because he SAYS it "doesn't look as good" doesn't make is so. There is WAY too much evidence to the contrary.

we must be able to think for ourselves.

 

[Tony Stark]

Dude, you're whole drivel was all about how you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Believe it or not, some people don't give a crap about the brow.

If the brow means that much to you, go watch the Corman film.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I must have missed those. So those that discuss without showing common sense will be banned. Damn, that means you're gonna ban 30+ people daily? wow. good luck.

BTW, I've only seen a few, possibly less, do as you say. "Raa-Raa" like some Fantastic Cheerleaders. Most around here are excited about the movie with some reservations. If thats "raa raa" then ok. hmmmm. I think I'm confused on the rules, but I'll catch up I'm sure and hopefully post with common sense. I certainly don't want to get banned.

Would a 50 Things Going Right for F4 2 be seen as a lack of common sense or too raa raa? I can think of at least 10 right now I believe, oh wait, no dumb me, thats my lack of common sense coming through. I'll try and think of a negative for each of my positives in the future.

I think I just got stung by the *sarcasm* bug that flies around here so often.

Well, as one of this forum's original members from a few years ago I've seen my fair share of "Raa-Raa" threads. Hell, I even created a few of my own. So basically I'm speaking from experience here.

And the lesson to be learned is tolerance--which is a trait sorely lacking among some fanboys...but one that has to be mastered if they are to enjoy this board.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm afraid I don't have the attention span to read all of this, but my best take is that we're making assesments of the quality of FF2 based on the size of Ben's brow.

If that's the case, here's my 2 cents:

The brow looks better than the first film, but not as good as it could potentially be.

This film should, therefore, be better than the first one but not as good as it could potentially be.

Now I'm really going to go out on a limb and predict the film won't win any Oscars, but it should be fun to watch and do reasonably well at the box office.

Now that the predictions and assumptions are out of the way, I'll try to avoid making any more predictions and judgements and focus instead on news and info.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

my best take is that we're making assesments of the quality of FF2 based on the size of Ben's brow.

lol

 

[Morgoth]

Tim's an diiot to say the Thing's brow wouldn't look as good as we think, it looks cool in the comics and with a little imagination and good make-up it would be fine.


But there's nothing but lack of imagination for these comic movies.

There always has to be an excuse for not having things in and making it more realistic. I read comics and watch comic movies to see things I don't see everyday.

These movies shouldn't be toned down.

Doom has so much to him and they totally missed the richness of his character.

 

[HighVoltage]

• People did not like the change of origin (including Doom and the whole Doom/Sue love triangle nonsense.)
• People Hated Doom, (the change in costume, powers, character, and attitude)
• and last but not least the Thing's Brow.

1- It was the 60s, this is a new century, do you believe right now, about 4 people, normal people stealing a space shuttle?, even in Fantasy/Sci-Fi movies this is ridiculous and nonsense, that´s the reason why the origin was changed.

2- Doctor Doom, the problem was Anakin Skywalker a.k.a Darth Vader in same summer, I remember reports in movie magazines, talking about similarities between the scar of Hayden Christensen and the scar in Julian Mcmahon´s face, and that was a reason for Fox to change the origin for Doctor Doom, because the studio felt that 2 movies from same company, in same summer, with similar characters was a risk for the marketing, anyway I remember pics in this board about Fantastic 4 comics, where Doctor Doom from movie looks similar to first Doctor Doom created by Jack Kirby, and yes that Doctor Doom wears pants, gimme some time and I can find that pic.

3- Thing without Brows was because there is another non released movie directed by Roger Corman, and the Thing from that movie wears the eyebrows, even in the Marvel Movie section, there is a thread created by a cool guy called Chris Wallace, and he give an explanation about the Thing´s changes because MARVEL (and Fox) don´t want a relation with that Roger Corman movie. ( why Roger Corman´s name sounds creepy? ).

You know, I´m watching the reports and pics for a movie of next year, about a dear toy franchise from my childhood, and that hurt me, because those characters are my favorite too, and those characters have no only one, they have 2 famous movie directors!, and these 2 directors are destroying every cool part from those characters, and yes I´m talking about The Transformers, that´s a real example about a wrong direction for classic characters, doing wrong everything, and changing everything, that´s the reason why for me Tim Story and Fox are doing a good job with Fantastic 4, because there are only a few changes for the characters, only doing these changes for a new era, adapting these chracters for a new generation.

 

[DeFett]

People Hated Doom, (the change in costume, powers, character, and attitude)

I liked Doom's costume it was a good translation on to the big screen, it was just a pity we didn't get to see him doing more bad stuff.