Why I think Story/Fox are starting off wrong

[TripleF]

Well, as one of this forum's original members from a few years ago I've seen my fair share of "Raa-Raa" threads. Hell, I even created a few of my own. So basically I'm speaking from experience here.

And the lesson to be learned is tolerance--which is a trait sorely lacking among some fanboys...but one that has to be mastered if they are to enjoy this board.

Yes I've read a few of your "raa raa" threads. I've also read from those that looked at those "raa raa" threads as something that you clean off the bottom of your shoes, left behind by ignorant people. Maybe I read your post wrong, but it seemed you were looking at the "raa raa" threads as frivilous tripe. I've been known to misread sometimes, and have no problem being corrected.

No problem with tolerance, except that tolerance is something I do to with the heat here. Whereas respect is what I like to give, and hopefully receive.

I don't have a problem with "raa raa's" or "whiners" (as they have been called here), I just don't like opinions to be devalued by lack of years in the studying of this comic and its characters. Other than that, I'm cool.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[HoratioRome]

Yes I've read a few of your "raa raa" threads. I've also read from those that looked at those "raa raa" threads as something that you clean off the bottom of your shoes, left behind by ignorant people. Maybe I read your post wrong, but it seemed you were looking at the "raa raa" threads as frivilous tripe. I've been known to misread sometimes, and have no problem being corrected.

No problem with tolerance, except that tolerance is something I do to with the heat here. Whereas respect is what I like to give, and hopefully receive.

I don't have a problem with "raa raa's" or "whiners" (as they have been called here), I just don't like opinions to be devalued by lack of years in the studying of this comic and its characters. Other than that, I'm cool.

Yeah, I agree.

I understand your POV, but unfortunately "lack of years" in knowing or "studying" a comic or character is an issue. Disagreements often come between those that have read comics for decades and new comers. If a newcomer hasn't take the time to know/study a character, it is difficult for that person's opinion not to be of less value than someone else who has.
Please don't mistunderstand, I'm not saying the older reader is automatically right or the new comer automatically wrong. What I'm saying is that the longtime reader brings something to the table that the NC doesn't (assuming he hasn't taken the time to research it).

As older readers, many of us have a better understanding of the character then (believe it or not) even the current writers of the books; never mind new readers. We have a greater understanding of what works and what doesn't because we've seen it over the years. We have a better understanding of what makes the character special, and so on.

As an example, a person reading the Ultimates may think 'wow this is great'. But for those of us who've seen all the different incarnations over the years, and know the roots of a character, we can see that the ultimate is a derivative of the original. we see that it works because it had the original as its foundation. We understand that it may not work as a stand alone because it may lack the essential aspects which made the character so popular.
think about this, if the essential core aspects of a character aren't important, why doesn't Marvel simply create new superhereos? why is it so hard for new heroes to catch on. there are hundreds of new superheroes created all the time. SO why havent' we seen any of them be Spider-man or Wolverine or Superman.
the answer is because they are lacking that magical component which makes the character appealling.
THAT is why we get upset when we see hollywood ignore THOSE aspects in THEIR versions.

You may think the brow is not important, but we're telling you we've seen many a rocky thing like character which simply didn't catch on. so why mess with it?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

LOOK.....I'm sick of people acting like the brow is insignificant!

In the cosmic scheme of things, while people are dying in Iraq? Yeah, insignificant.

HowEVER......If Batman Begins came out, and the director said that pointy ears on Batman may work on the page, but look too cartoony in real life, so he took off Batman's pointy ears and just gave him a mask like Robin wears.......do you not think there would be Batman fans rioting in the streets???

Why, it's just 2 little pointy pieces of rubber?
NO! It is an essential aesthetic element of the character that has remained, through decades of permutations.
Stubby ears, foot long ears, bull horn looking ears, swept-back ears, swept-forward ears.....but STILL, always pointy ears.

The Thing's Brow is Batman's pointy ears, okay?

 

[TripleF]

I understand your POV, but unfortunately "lack of years" in knowing or "studying" a comic or character is an issue. Disagreements often come between those that have read comics for decades and new comers. If a newcomer hasn't take the time to know/study a character, it is difficult for that person's opinion not to be of less value than someone else who has.
Please don't mistunderstand, I'm not saying the older reader is automatically right or the new comer automatically wrong. What I'm saying is that the longtime reader brings something to the table that the NC doesn't (assuming he hasn't taken the time to research it).

As older readers, many of us have a better understanding of the character then (believe it or not) even the current writers of the books; never mind new readers. We have a greater understanding of what works and what doesn't because we've seen it over the years. We have a better understanding of what makes the character special, and so on.

As an example, a person reading the Ultimates may think 'wow this is great'. But for those of us who've seen all the different incarnations over the years, and know the roots of a character, we can see that the ultimate is a derivative of the original. we see that it works because it had the original as its foundation. We understand that it may not work as a stand alone because it may lack the essential aspects which made the character so popular.
think about this, if the essential core aspects of a character aren't important, why doesn't Marvel simply create new superhereos? why is it so hard for new heroes to catch on. there are hundreds of new superheroes created all the time. SO why havent' we seen any of them be Spider-man or Wolverine or Superman.
the answer is because they are lacking that magical component which makes the character appealling.
THAT is why we get upset when we see hollywood ignore THOSE aspects in THEIR versions.

You may think the brow is not important, but we're telling you we've seen many a rocky thing like character which simply didn't catch on. so why mess with it?

I understand your point of view as well, and disagree. But thats ok, the world would be a boring place if we all agreed.

I guess my biggest problem are those that "without knowing whether or not a person has been a fan for years or otherwise" just because their view may be more positive than the next, they are automatically labeled not a "true fan" or "don't know the true F4" or "you must not have read the comics as long as I have". Maybe they have and that is their opinion.

I put my cards on the table early, have no problem with that, and if people want to put little value in my opinion because of that. So be it. Just seems it would be nice to give an opinion, debate without the whole "who's got the bigger ...." mentality that I've seen here in a few debates. I have friends that are huge fans of this comic, yes they had problems, but they haven't analyzed the thing into a dead horse black hole, and they enjoyed what they saw. Was it exactly what they wanted, No. But they enjoyed it with their families, and there kids are now fans and buying the issues of this comic like crazy. That to me is cool, and that to me is what its all about. You can continue to see only the negative, thats fine. But we should also allow those to see the positive without judging their knowledge by their opinion.

You may not say "you are automatically right" or "you are automatically wrong". But the manner in which some post around here, that is exactly what is coming across. As I've said before, its not necessarily the opinion, but how the opinion is given.

That is the problem I have. Around here peoples knowledge is judged by their opinion of the movie. If it is more toward the negative, they must be long time fans of the comic. It it is more toward the positive, they must know nothing of the comic. How about we allow both, debate, and enjoy ourselves.

 

[TripleF]

LOOK.....I'm sick of people acting like the brow is insignificant!

In the cosmic scheme of things, while people are dying in Iraq? Yeah, insignificant.

HowEVER......If Batman Begins came out, and the director said that pointy ears on Batman may work on the page, but look too cartoony in real life, so he took off Batman's pointy ears and just gave him a mask like Robin wears.......do you not think there would be Batman fans rioting in the streets???

Why, it's just 2 little pointy pieces of rubber?
NO! It is an essential aesthetic element of the character that has remained, through decades of permutations.
Stubby ears, foot long ears, bull horn looking ears, swept-back ears, swept-forward ears.....but STILL, always pointy ears.

The Thing's Brow is Batman's pointy ears, okay?

Let me just say that -----

I GET YOUR POINT.

I've gotten it EVERYTIME.

 

[GhostPoet]

The overly large brow would look stupid in real life.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

No, it would look like the Thing instead of a macaroni-burn victim.

 

[TripleF]

*sighs*

 

[The Apatow Crew]

*sighs*

There's no use talking to these fanboys. When they have something set in there mind it's not gonna change.

 

[Malus]

LOOK.....I'm sick of people acting like the brow is insignificant!

In the cosmic scheme of things, while people are dying in Iraq? Yeah, insignificant.

HowEVER......If Batman Begins came out, and the director said that pointy ears on Batman may work on the page, but look too cartoony in real life, so he took off Batman's pointy ears and just gave him a mask like Robin wears.......do you not think there would be Batman fans rioting in the streets???

Why, it's just 2 little pointy pieces of rubber?
NO! It is an essential aesthetic element of the character that has remained, through decades of permutations.
Stubby ears, foot long ears, bull horn looking ears, swept-back ears, swept-forward ears.....but STILL, always pointy ears.

The Thing's Brow is Batman's pointy ears, okay?

It really is as simple as that.

The overly large brow would look stupid in real life.

And so do big pointy bat-ears.
I swear, this shouldn't even be an argument. It's ridiculous. The brow is an integral part of the character's physical look and has been for over 4 decades.
On every poster, on every action figure, in every cartoon, etc etc ETC.
It's an iconic aspect of Ben Grimm, PERIOD.

A lot of us fans (I'd say the great majority) want the freakin' brow, or at least a better representation of it. This isn't at all trivial to fans. We want it because we want a faithful movie version of this beloved character.

Those of you who persist in ridiculing this concern are, in my opinion, just looking to perpetuate a pointless debate.

 

[TripleF]

There's no use talking to these fanboys. When they have something set in there mind it's not gonna change.

Actually the sigh was for the guy bringing it up in a way that he knows will bring fans of Thing "squaring off" again.

They have every right to want their fav character the way they want.

You use "fanboy" in a way that seems like they disgust you.

If it weren't for these fanboys and their decades of love for these characters, your lovely Jessica would not be in a movie franchise like "The Fantastic Four" you need to keep that in mind as you post.

I get tired of the same debate over and over as well, BUT I think the $1,000 of dollars they've put in over the years gives them alittle bellowing room.

 

[The Apatow Crew]

Actually the sigh was for the guy bringing it up in a way that he knows will bring fans of Thing "squaring off" again.

They have every right to want their fav character the way they want.

You use "fanboy" in a way that seems like they disgust you.

If it weren't for these fanboys and their decades of love for these characters, your lovely Jessica would not be in a movie franchise like "The Fantastic Four" you need to keep that in mind as you post.

I get tired of the same debate over and over as well, BUT I think the $1,000 of dollars they've put in over the years gives them alittle bellowing room.

You know what i was wrong. Like always. Let the people continue on to call this a piece of crap the hell to being positive. Hell Fox should just cancell the movie now amd save there money for a few years later than they can restart the franchise the way the fans want.

How about Fox put the fans in control of everything? Since all i hear is how fox does a crappy job. How about the fans,write the script,Cast the cast,Designs the sets,the costumes. Make the thing all CG and make it look the hulk instead of green but all orange and rocky. And than when the movie comes out and it doesn't do what everyone expected. Than the people to blame would be the fans.

Oh and btw nice bash you go in there at theend. I guess your not really apart of the hype until you mention that one part. Well goodbye and good luck. It appears nothings gonna change here. So you won't see me posting anymorein this one certain thread.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

you always say that.

 

[Tony Stark]

LOOK.....I'm sick of people acting like the brow is insignificant!

In the cosmic scheme of things, while people are dying in Iraq? Yeah, insignificant.

HowEVER......If Batman Begins came out, and the director said that pointy ears on Batman may work on the page, but look too cartoony in real life, so he took off Batman's pointy ears and just gave him a mask like Robin wears.......do you not think there would be Batman fans rioting in the streets???

Why, it's just 2 little pointy pieces of rubber?
NO! It is an essential aesthetic element of the character that has remained, through decades of permutations.
Stubby ears, foot long ears, bull horn looking ears, swept-back ears, swept-forward ears.....but STILL, always pointy ears.

The Thing's Brow is Batman's pointy ears, okay?

And I'm sick of people like you *****ing and *****ing and *****ing their mouths off. If you don't like it, then don't go see the movie.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Why?


See, that's the difference here.
I don't get "TOtally freaking sick of you people constantly talking up F4 and saying it's so effing GREAT all of the time!!!"
You're just expressing your opinion. It can't harm me in any way.

But if you don't feel exactly the same, people here make it personal, roll their eyes, mock you, ask for your thread to be closed, ask for you to be banned.
It's weird, and it reminds me of stormfront.com. "If you don't agree with me, then keep your opinions to yourself and off of the F4 boards!"

That's nuts.
If you see a new picture of The Thing in the sequel, and are super disappointed, WHERE should you talk about it?

Community, the Ghost Rider forum?....Marvel Movies....Misc. Movies...??
of course not, THIS is the place to talk about F42, and I'll never understand this idea that the forum was set up solely to post positive opinions?

 

[TripleF]

And I'm sick of people like you *****ing and *****ing and *****ing their mouths off. If you don't like it, then don't go see the movie.

come on, is this really needed here? All this does is continue the same debates over and over again.

Its actually very simple, if you don't want to read their posts, then put them on ignore.

They can still post, and you don't have to read it. Everyone is happy.

 

[TripleF]

Why?


See, that's the difference here.
I don't get "TOtally freaking sick of you people constantly talking up F4 and saying it's so effing GREAT all of the time!!!"
You're just expressing your opinion. It can't harm me in any way.

But if you don't feel exactly the same, people here make it personal, roll their eyes, mock you, ask for your thread to be closed, ask for you to be banned.
It's weird, and it reminds me of stormfront.com. "If you don't agree with me, then keep your opinions to yourself and off of the F4 boards!"

That's nuts.
If you see a new picture of The Thing in the sequel, and are super disappointed, WHERE should you talk about it?

Community, the Ghost Rider forum?....Marvel Movies....Misc. Movies...??
of course not, THIS is the place to talk about F42, and I'll never understand this idea that the forum was set up solely to post positive opinions?

Thats true, but it goes both ways. I've seen the other end in all of its glory before as well. Now mind you, most of the people that did that are now gone. But, as the Serbs did to the Muslims in Kosovo, what goes around comes around, and unfortunately no one wins.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

But, as the Serbs did to the Muslims in Kosovo, what goes around comes around, and unfortunately no one wins.

lol, insane comparison, hahaha

 

[TripleF]

lol, insane comparison, hahaha

I'll admit, over the top, but hey I just finished a book on the history of ethnic cleansing. Can't seem to get it out of my mind.

 

[TripleF]

You know what i was wrong. Like always. Let the people continue on to call this a piece of crap the hell to being positive. Hell Fox should just cancell the movie now amd save there money for a few years later than they can restart the franchise the way the fans want.

How about Fox put the fans in control of everything? Since all i hear is how fox does a crappy job. How about the fans,write the script,Cast the cast,Designs the sets,the costumes. Make the thing all CG and make it look the hulk instead of green but all orange and rocky. And than when the movie comes out and it doesn't do what everyone expected. Than the people to blame would be the fans.

Oh and btw nice bash you go in there at theend. I guess your not really apart of the hype until you mention that one part. Well goodbye and good luck. It appears nothings gonna change here. So you won't see me posting anymorein this one certain thread.

Uh?

I'm sorry, but thats funny.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I'll admit, over the top, but hey I just finished a book on the history of ethnic cleansing. Can't seem to get it out of my mind.

Abraham Lincoln fought to preserve the Union between Ben Grimm and his monobrow!

 

[TripleF]

Abraham Lincoln fought to preserve the Union between Ben Grimm and his monobrow!

Holds up WS's hand, in my best Wrestler Announcer Voice, "The debate has been won". The Winner Is, Case closed, honor bestowed on The Wilhelm in his quest to reunite Ben with his brow. I have no other retort. I'm spent.

You're a good man WS, your passion for your favorite is truly an inspiration.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

heh

 

[Carp Man]

LOOK.....I'm sick of people acting like the brow is insignificant!

In the cosmic scheme of things, while people are dying in Iraq? Yeah, insignificant.

HowEVER......If Batman Begins came out, and the director said that pointy ears on Batman may work on the page, but look too cartoony in real life, so he took off Batman's pointy ears and just gave him a mask like Robin wears.......do you not think there would be Batman fans rioting in the streets???

Why, it's just 2 little pointy pieces of rubber?
NO! It is an essential aesthetic element of the character that has remained, through decades of permutations.
Stubby ears, foot long ears, bull horn looking ears, swept-back ears, swept-forward ears.....but STILL, always pointy ears.

The Thing's Brow is Batman's pointy ears, okay?

Can I have some of what you're smoking ? How can you compair Batman's ears, to the Things brow ? People identify the ears with Batman. People do not identify the Thing with the big brow. The Thing has 1 thing that Batman/Bruce Wayne does not have and that is a personality. That is what sets the Thing apart from all other comic book charactors. That is what I think of when I think of the Thing, not the brow. Take away his personallity, give him a big brow like in the comics, turn him into all brawn and no brains like the Hulk, then you would have war. The brow is insignificent compaired to the other things that make him " The Ever Lovin Blue Eyed Thing".

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Can I have some of what you're smoking ?

No.

How can you compair Batman's ears, to the Things brow ? People identify the ears with Batman. People do not identify the Thing with the big brow.

Yes. They do.....Horatio, Wobbly and I are living proof. Are you saying that we aren't "people"?

The Thing has 1 thing that Batman/Bruce Wayne does not have and that is a personality. That is what sets the Thing apart from all other comic book charactors. That is what I think of when I think of the Thing, not the brow. Take away his personallity, give him a big brow like in the comics, turn him into all brawn and no brains like the Hulk, then you would have war. The brow is insignificent compaired to the other things that make him " The Ever Lovin Blue Eyed Thing".

You're being silly. First of all, Bruce Wayne has no personality?

LMAO, go to the Batman boards and tell them that. LOL

Next, You're forgetting that we all don't feel exactly like you do.
When I think of "the Thing", it's not a case of "Either/Or".

I think of his irreverent, down-to-Earth, slangophile personality AND his appearance. They come TOGETHER to create the charactEr. Like Indiana Jones will always be associated with a brown fedora and a whip.