Sequels Why not have Spidey lose?

[Mike]

In the next movie why not have Spider-Man lose to the villain. It would add a unique twist on things. Dont really want Spidey to end on a cliff hanger but just have Pete somewhat defeated psycholigiclly too.

 

[Scissors]

Okay, i like this idea.

I personally would do it like in the comics with Morlun or whatever he's named.

You know, from 'A New Chapter'.

Peter was really really beaten up and nearly dead.

That is what i really want to see in a Spidey movie!

 

[Styleshift]

Not to rain on (well i should include myself also) our parade.
but...
Spidey is a victim of his own success...sure he rakes in the big bucks. but because of that he's marketed to kids ALOT. more so than Daredevil or Superman.

the night gwen stacy died would be a really good story on film. (unfortunately it would be back pedaling since there were references to it in the first film.)

as for the character the above poster was talking about.
his name is morlun, and during that time Spider-man's origin had been change to fit the bill of the chosen one of the "spider totem". (and yes...you don't have to read that again lol)

Morlun beat may have beat Spidey into a pulp but the story wrapped around 2 days so it wasn't the closure...because spidey had to be constantly on the run from morlun since...once he touches a person he can always find them anywhere they hide.

Spoiler

spidey still won by using his brain and injecting himself with radiation again (the irradiation he got from the first spider bite wore off after years.) spidey than beats morlun into a pulp. while Morlun begs for his life and to never return to haunt Peter...peter than tries to decide whether he should kill him or not and before he can do that Morlun's personal slave (i forgot the mans name) shoots him and finishes Morlun off before Pete may have had to.

later morlun mysteriously returns without explanation, while Pete is sick *from cellular degeneration for no reason given* to attempt to finish him off and finally feed on his life energy
pete is on his way to pick up his check and than he's attacked by morlun whom peter beats down but morlun surprises pete by plucking his eyeball out and eating it in front of him. while peter is shocked morlun beats the crap out of him and prepares to feed while the cops show up. (he's not invulnerable to bullets.) the cops unmask pete but hes so badly beaten they cant recognize who was under the mask.

later at the hospital morlun comes to feed and mj is there by pete. mj fights morlun off and morlun breaks her arm. this awakens the spider inside of pete and 2 stingers pop out of his wrists he stabs morlun and than feeds on his energy by growing teeth and devouring his head. pete than dies in front of mj and than sheds his skin and is reborn later in a cocoon after he has fully embraced his new powers and life.

and no i didnt make that up...nor is it fan fic. that really did happen in the comics lately for you casual fans.... but they decided to reboot all of it....

 

[Visionary]

Not to rain on (well i should include myself also) our parade.
but...
Spidey is a victim of his own success...sure he rakes in the big bucks. but because of that he's marketed to kids ALOT.

That's what I have always said. These movies cater so much to kids, that you can never really bring these films to the level of quality that they deserve, not even with a really good or great writer. Why, because when you cater to kids one's writing is limited? This in turn takes effects on the hero, the villain(s), fight scenes, action sequences, stories and characters. Thus, is why I want an R-rated Spider-Man. Under the PG-13 rating, you're going to get more of the same, because Marvel/Sony put product placements, toys/merchandising, playing it safe for kids and soccer moms first.

In the next movie why not have Spider-Man lose to the villain. It would add a unique twist on things. Dont really want Spidey to end on a cliff hanger but just have Pete somewhat defeated psycholigiclly too.

I love this idea, but it will never happen. It's too original, and Sony/Marvel couldn't cope for one moment leaving their precious Spider-Man beaten at the end of a movie, even though it would bring a lot of curiosity to the next film.

Unfortunately, no writer is allowed to think outside the box with these current PG-13 comic book films being made. They like their sh:t generic and kid friendly, it makes me sick.

 

[Eddie Brock]

It's quite simple:

Of all the Marvel franchises, Spider-Man is the one that is marketed the most to children. What kind of message is it sending to them when the forces of good cannot overcome the forces of evil?

 

[dark joker]

I agree with Eddie brock, Marvel would not make a movie with spiderman losing its just wrong for kids. I'd personally like to see him lose though

 

[Eddie Brock]

Again, the important thing that always slips peoples' minds is that comics and movies are two different mediums.

If Spidey loses in a comic - oh well. Better luck next month.

But movies are totally different. The stories are completely exclusive. If Spidey loses in a movie, that's it. By the next movie, it's a different plot.

 

[Eggyman]

Did you not think Spidey 3 ended with enough sorrow. Jesus, I'd just like them to sh** or get off the pot. Let's not have them sit on the fence anymore and show the beast for what it really is. If Spidey is a popcorn franchise, then let's have a bit of good feeling in it, please. I'm so sick of the downtrodden storyline - I'm not saying don't give Pete/Spidey problems, but lets just have a lil spark in the next one eh?

 

[Mike]

It would be cool to have Spidey lose to Lizard. But by a stroke of luck the lizard is cured and turns back to Connors. Have Spidey question himself towards the end of the movie if he really is that great of a hero. I hear a lot of people sayng, " What type of message spidey would send if he loses!" Okay, what type of message is Spidey/Marvel sending where the Hero always wins. Kids want to be like Spidey, Yeah! But some kids and older audiences want someone to connect with as well. No one wins all the time. We lose "most" of the time, but we keep trying, even when we get knocked on our ass hard. If its any superhero to go in this direction with, it's Spider-Man

 

[Spidey_87]

Well, if there is an adaptation of "Kraven's Last Hunt" in the next film, then why not let the movie end with Peter's burial or defeat? Aren't they considering shooting Spidey 4 and 5 back-to-back? That would be a good way to provoke interest for the fifth film in the franchise.

 

[Mike]

That would be lame if it ended on a cliffhanger. Its a cheap way to cash in on the 2nd act. Peoples expectations will be too hyped up and the final act would fall flat. I was thinking of Spidey losing in a stand alone movie. Kravens Last Hint would be good for just one movie.

 

[Styleshift]

That's what I have always said. These movies cater so much to kids, that you can never really bring these films to the level of quality that they deserve, not even with a really good or great writer. Why, because when you cater to kids one's writing is limited? This in turn takes effects on the hero, the villain(s), fight scenes, action sequences, stories and characters. Thus, is why I want an R-rated Spider-Man. Under the PG-13 rating, you're going to get more of the same, because Marvel/Sony put product placements, toys/merchandising, playing it safe for kids and soccer moms first.


I love this idea, but it will never happen. It's too original, and Sony/Marvel couldn't cope for one moment leaving their precious Spider-Man beaten at the end of a movie, even though it would bring a lot of curiosity to the next film.

Unfortunately, no writer is allowed to think outside the box with these current PG-13 comic book films being made. They like their sh:t generic and kid friendly, it makes me sick.

Great minds my friend. t:

Spidey 4 and 5 (since they might shoot back to back) is a PERFECT time to have the webslinger lose a fight in the 4th battle.

it would be a great opportunity to have the sinister six in the film. have him beat them easily in the beginning...but lose at the end to them.

which is the main reason why i hope they reboot the franchise since Ock is dead.

but it really is a shame....because most of the best Spidey moments involve tragedy.

another bad thing is that they introduced mj as a mixture of gwen...
but i wouldn't be sad if they killed off movie mj. she just really sucks big time...i liked movie gwen a whole lot better for the couple of scenes she was in. t:

 

[Styleshift]

It would be cool to have Spidey lose to Lizard. But by a stroke of luck the lizard is cured and turns back to Connors. Have Spidey question himself towards the end of the movie if he really is that great of a hero. I hear a lot of people sayng, " What type of message spidey would send if he loses!" Okay, what type of message is Spidey/Marvel sending where the Hero always wins. Kids want to be like Spidey, Yeah! But some kids and older audiences want someone to connect with as well. No one wins all the time. We lose "most" of the time, but we keep trying, even when we get knocked on our ass hard. If its any superhero to go in this direction with, it's Spider-Man

Which is why I think Iron man was so successful....It catered to everyone...it wasn't too dark. it had its moments of adult humor.
like when

Spoiler

Rhodey was drunk with Tony. and he explained every morning he puts his uniform on he looks at it as the whole air force has got his back. lol.

There were PLENTY of alcohol references...which is why I think the "demon in a bottle" storyline will be used next...(since they have made mention of war machine in the film and interviews)

but i just think the spidey films should follow closely to what iron man did. i hate to say it but i feel that he's even surpassed Spider-man because of the kiddie handicap that spidey had on his film...
this is how you do a movie right.

and the pg-13 thing isn't holding them back at all...they can do PLENTY of things...look at the bourne identity and how they

Spoiler

Killed Marie off in the second film...originally she was NOT supposed to die he actually married her and had kids with her. if you have ever read the book. and the third film was TOTALLY different. they only shared the same name...

 

[Clobberin' Time]

In the next movie why not have Spider-Man lose to the villain. It would add a unique twist on things. Dont really want Spidey to end on a cliff hanger but just have Pete somewhat defeated psycholigiclly too.

Or, just for a change, lets have him keep his mask on? Talk about major plot twists!

 

[Blader5489]

Last I checked, Spider-Man was unable to save both his uncle and his best friend from being killed by villains he created. Seems like a loss to me.

 

[Mike]

Last I checked, Spider-Man was unable to save both his uncle and his best friend from being killed by villains he created. Seems like a loss to me.

Im talking about Spidey getting his ass kicked losing. Him being inferior to his opponent.

 

[Hectorminator]

Well, if there is an adaptation of "Kraven's Last Hunt" in the next film, then why not let the movie end with Peter's burial or defeat? Aren't they considering shooting Spidey 4 and 5 back-to-back? That would be a good way to provoke interest for the fifth film in the franchise.

This is the obvious answer to what everyone wants to see in Spidey 4. But the burial needs to be at the end of the second act, not the end of the movie, otherwise that would be a terrible movie, not a way to garner interest in part 5.

Kraven the Hunter: one of the only villains to beat Spider-Man.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm up for if SM4/5 are really done back to back with SM4 ending with Kraven burying Spidey alive (or seemingly dead), with the Lizard on the loose and Peter missing his wedding as Spidey goes missing and MJ fearing the worst.

Then SM5 could build off of that.

But just simply losing...not gonna' happen. Why? Because these movies have to be marketable and the hero losing is not marketable. Now being psychologically affected by the villain he just defeated, yeah I could see that. They kind of explored that in SM1 with his realization that Norman Osborn was GG and died trying to kill everything Peter held dear. His reaction was rejecting MJ. SM3 also ends with him realizing if he doesn't understand people and thinks he is morally superior, he will end up like Venom and he lets Sandman go thusly (so did he beat him?) to be with his daughter before she dies. And Harry's death had a pretty traumatic effect on Peter too, judging by the ending and where he'll likely be in SM4.

I'm not saying it could be articulated better than in SM1 and SM3 (which it should) but a clean defeat being the ending with no cliff hanger? Pass.

 

[DACrowe]

P.S. The last shot (if 4 and 5 are back-to-back) of SM4 after Kraven saves/attacks/scares MJ ****less, her wedding is in shambles and Spidey is nowhere to be found as Lizard rampages the city, Kraven kidnaps Martha and Billy Conners to help him lure their husband out is the grave of "Here Lies Spider-Man" and as the camera slowly dollies in close a spider fist pounds out of the dirt

sharp cut to credits. That is how I'd end SM4 and SM5 would begin with the world in the ****ter as Spidey comes back royally pissed. We're talking you want a serious Spidey that is not dorky, here he is.

 

[Styleshift]

Im talking about Spidey getting his ass kicked losing. Him being inferior to his opponent.

It's better just to ignore him Mike...trust me.

I think the sinister six would be perfect for this. a more experienced Spidey makes a joke out of all of them alone. than they talk about it...form a group and beat the crap out of them....than its hello spider-man 5.

 

[Toxin]

If Spider-man loses, it would be even worse, because then people would consider it a cheap cliffhanger (like they bashed Pirates 2 for the bad guys basically winning) since noone would consider it a loss as Spider-man's not going to die and certainly going to have a sequel.

 

[Spidey_87]

Another thing that I just thought would be to show the effects of Harry's death in SM4, just like in the "Shrieking" storyline in ASM from 1994. One could possible see Peter in the Osborn mansion, grief-stricken as he basically rips the place apart blamming Norman for his friend's death. It would fit in nicely with the whole darkness/defeat theme in "Kraven's Last Hunt" if that is the story the studio pursues for SM4.

 

[storyteller]

Okay are we talking about

Spiderman is defeated in battle and thats the end of the movie. No try again next movie?

or

Spiderman being defeated and spiderman is down on himself for the loss?

In spiderman, Pete catches the killer but recieves no satisfaction since his uncle is dead
LOSS

Spiderman defeats GG in the first encounter but the board members are dead
LOSS

Spiderman is defeated at the bugle by GG
LOSS

Spiderman defeats GG but Norman dies and harry loses his father
LOSS

Peter decides as a result of all this to not be with MJ
LOSS

Psycological defeat

Spiderman 2

Spiderman first fight with Ock. He fails to stop Ocks escape and getting away with the cash
LOSS

Ocks second fight, He is defeated by Ock
LOSS

Ocks Third fight. He defeats Ock but again the villain dies
LOSS

I think a beat down is irrelevant to what the hero loses in exchange for "winning" or even surviving the encounter.

If spiderman loses it all then whats the point. The hero fails and its game over. If the villain just leaves and promises never to be bad again(cause hes using the cash in a tropical resort) after beating spidey, then i guess you got a goodish closer.

Hell empire strikes back too me is the best example. Luke and co lost at the end of the movie. But since spiderman prides himself on loosing whenever he wins then i think spiderman has never truely won at the end of each of the movies.

 

[spidey 802]

i think spidey hs lost a fight against rhino at one point...

 

[Spider-Man '92]

Well they sad that the script for Spider-Man 4 could possibly bring about an SM5, right? So perhaps it'll be a two-parter. I think a good cliffhanger is what the series needs to get it back in shape. It would make people want more, and then, they would get more.

I'd like to see him lose in the end, or perhaps, he thinks he's won, but at the last minute everything goes wrong and he fails. I don't want to see the Sinister Six yet (I want every character individually introduced first in seperate movies) but the Sinister Six could make a good cliffhanger.

Has anyone read the Tom DeFalco books of the Sinister Six? That would certainly make a good plot, and be good as a two-parter.