Why Wolverine 2 will be a success...

[Project862006]

infinity i agree totally people never bring this up but x1 was not that good but x2 was so great people forget about it

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Hi, wow such a big response from you all, Ive gonna have to responde to all in parts to here my responses to page one...

Julio Alejandro - thanks for the support

Weezerspider - I think wolverines story hasnt fully been justified because hes a complex character... We still dont know how or why he ended up in a bar in alberta fighting for money, plus wolverine in x-men origins was an animal, one thing i noted was that he barely used his senses and his fights were more based on his rage than instinked... Wolverine 2, especially the japan story would highlight how wolverine learned to make peace with his ability... You got to remember is that wolverine has just lost his memory, he is heavy and for some reason has metal claws, if it was mean, i would be in a state of rehabilitation and it would be the birth of his journey to trying to discover who he is... Thats why we need Wolverine 2...

Ziggyman - Totally agree.

Project862006 - Bryan Singer would of made a better x3 if he chose to do it, he didnt and so the studio didnt want to take a risk. Singer making Wolverine would of been a bad idea, because singers initial ploy was to show the same discrimination minorities and those with different sexual preferences were treated. Woverine is pratically a story about someone finding there own place in the world, not fighting to be part of one. The angle is different.

Chewy - You may laugh but its true

Deaths head 2 - you should get your hopes up, because Wolverine 2 keeps the survival of the franchise alive.

Sniktsnakt - have trust in this franchise.

Venom 892 - They will throw in characters if they deem it necessary to make people who wouldnt normally fade interest in wolverine watch it... for example, they could include hellfire club to wolverine 2, find a way to include them just so fans of the hellfireclub who arnt really a wolverine fan would watch the movie hoping to see there favorite characters come to life. You never know it may work, it may not work... We juts have to wait and see

Bunk - Thats pretty much my point - at the time ALOT of people hated the first x-men because it wasnt true to the origin, But because it was successful in the box office at the time, people had higher hopes for x2 and was surprised to how great it was.

Venom 892 - your second post - Gavin will be back because of the same reasons of bryan singer, the studio now knows what he is capable of, so the second time around they will give him more creativivty.

Ratcrawler - What you got to remember was X-Men Origins: Wolverine - was a tool to break the universe of marvel into fragments, from this we have a soldy entry into First Class movie, Deadpool proved popular, gambit too for that matter... We already know how great wolverine was in 3 movies, it isnt intent to shove him down your throat but they needed a popular character to drive forward the story so we can be introduced to the characters we do want to see. like Deadpool, Gambit and get our sequel.

Robin 91939 - No it wouldnt singer doesnt really have Wolverines angle, he played on the minorities and social issues with mirrored mutant problems. Wolverine was just added to his series as the person to be introduced to the world... we lived the story through wolverine and rogues eyes.

Ratcrawler - Wolverine did have a subtext... the message with that movie is a question on how well do you really know yourself, and are you capable of making the right decession? wolverine made alot of wrong deceissions before he realised this path only lead to bad things, and so he walked away from it.

Whysoserious203 - is rollerblading good for you? i dont know your history so this is either a random inside joke or unusful declare of your feelings towards the movie

Hewholaughs55 - If they build it, they will come.... sorry that was cheasy, yeah thats pretty much it...

Superhero 101 - Wolverine should splinter into its own franchise, i feel it could have a solid trilogy but that would be it. there is still alot of levels to wolverine that need to be revealed, I think Japan needs to be the next one because well he's pratically lost at the moment, he needs to find his momentom to search for his identity. The third movie needs to focus on him giving up his search so he retreates to fighting for money... what would wolverine do in order to find out who he is.

Colossus - im not hundred percent on the story but if i remember rightly the story was really about how he learned to become one with his ability.

Ninja Turtle Fan - If they get a better director, they will take less of a risk and we will just end up with a repeat. Fox wont give time, they have tight windows in making these movies because they sell.

Javphonic - Singers film set the theme, gavin hood is continuing the theme with his angle on wolverine.

Romyfan - Gambit may or maynot appear in Wolverine 2, there is definatly a pairing that could happen i mean jackman said it himself, there is the whole iceman and pyro revialry that Wolverine has with Gambit... Being that Gambit is the only person who seem to know something, trying to remember who you are i would start with him.

Spider-Manhero12 - Read my post as to why it will be great.

Rogue Trooper - It wasnt the script either that was the problem, Fox just wanted to play it say, same director, same writer could produce an awsome movie, its just down to how much freedom Fox gives them to do it. They earnt that with x-men origins wolverine by making it safe.

Frostbite - Continuity is hard to track when writing a movie because what initlaly was a good idea for the first movie doesnt mean it works for the prequel... usually studios dont think that far ahead, they see... is this movie going to be a sucess, if yes whats the sequel going to be like, then they get the sequel and talk about a trilogy. anything beyond that its really whatever best first the script.

Night0205 - Because it basically defines wolverine for the character we know and love today... The Japan story gave wolverine his soul.

 

[The Batman]

Fans dont like origin stories? Batman Begins would like a word with you...so would Iron Man....and Superman the Movie...and Blade...and The Crow....and I could go on and on. Wolverine is getting bashed because it is not good, end of story, and i doubt the sequel will be better. We're just gonna get crap film after crap film for quite a while...

 

[Deaths Head II]

Deaths head 2 - you should get your hopes up, because Wolverine 2 keeps the survival of the franchise alive.

If the franchise starts keeps decreasing in quality, I really won't care if it's keeping the franchise alive. I wouldn't have gone to see Batman and Robin in '97 to keep the Batman franchise alive. Not that it's getting that bad yet, but it might. If I keep hoping that we'll get another X2 though, I'll just keep getting disappointed. If you set your expectations low, you can't get disappointed ever.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I hope to god this never makes it out of pre-production along with the First Class and Deadpool spin-offs.

I think that an X5 or Wolverine 2 if you like is coming but I'd bet that DeadPool and X-Kids are movies that will never come out.

 

[The Batman]

If the franchise starts keeps decreasing in quality, I really won't care if it's keeping the franchise alive. I wouldn't have gone to see Batman and Robin in '97 to keep the Batman franchise alive. Not that it's getting that bad yet, but it might. If I keep hoping that we'll get another X2 though, I'll just keep getting disappointed. If you set your expectations low, you can't get disappointed ever.

Exactly....i find amazing how so many x fans accept the garbage that is given to them, unlike superman fans, batman fans, and spider-man fans....

 

[Kurosawa]

Unfortunate that this is happening-the longer this version of the franchise goes, the longer it will be until a legitimate X-Men film franchise is made, if ever.

This news is great for Wolverine fanbois and Jackman fangirls, not good at all for real X-Men fans.

 

[Kurosawa]

Unfortunate that this is happening-the longer this version of the franchise goes, the longer it will be until a legitimate X-Men film franchise is made, if ever.

This news is great for Wolverine fanbois and Jackman fangirls, not good at all for real X-Men fans.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

people mentioned that they dont think having Lady Deathstrike placed in this movie could work......i think it could. and i think it would help to continue rounding out the villians from the initial trilogy. seeing as how they got no development.

you could say that somehow something Logan did caused Yuriko's fathers death. shes young and grows up with a bad life without a father....and she gets pissed and wants revenge. she cant figure out how to do it. well Stryker shows up and tells her about this procedure. and then we can see first hand her getting the adamantium.

so that way we never have to bother with logan knowing her, or recognizing her or whatever. if he ever saw her, she was really young. and by the time she gets the procedure (not too far away from X1/X2) she will be old enough to be able to actually use Kelly Hu. she is signed on for another movie. they are clearly not going to use her for anything else, so why not develop that tid bit. it would actually make her interesting in X2. as opposed to being just kind of cool. it would also explain how she ended up with Stryker.

 

[bullets]

That's far too much for one story. I'm not talking all the Japanese stories out there. I'm talking the original 4ish mini by Claremont/Miller. That story alone (with a bit added to it, --the Silver Samurai for me) would fill up a movie perfectly. The connection Omega Red has to the Mariko and Shingen would never be able to be shown in that story, because Mariko doesn't die until years after that story is introduced, Matsuo wasn't even in that particular story. In fact, Matsuo couldn't rise to power until after Shingen died, because Shingen was the leading crime lord in Japan before Wolverine took care of him.

If you want Omega Red done right, he can't be in the Japanese story. It just doesn't fit, because you have to incorporate his connection to Wolverine's black ops days, and his connection to Weapon X, and explain his Russian background. That doesn't fit with the story I'm talking about at all. You can easily have Omega Red in a Wolverine movie, but not one that's trying to deal with the Shingen/Hand/Markio storyline. It just wouldn't work.

They could somehow pull it ..Omega Red could be a side story until the end.

 

[bullets]

people mentioned that they dont think having Lady Deathstrike placed in this movie could work......i think it could. and i think it would help to continue rounding out the villians from the initial trilogy. seeing as how they got no development.

you could say that somehow something Logan did caused Yuriko's fathers death. shes young and grows up with a bad life without a father....and she gets pissed and wants revenge. she cant figure out how to do it. well Stryker shows up and tells her about this procedure. and then we can see first hand her getting the adamantium.

so that way we never have to bother with logan knowing her, or recognizing her or whatever. if he ever saw her, she was really young. and by the time she gets the procedure (not too far away from X1/X2) she will be old enough to be able to actually use Kelly Hu. she is signed on for another movie. they are clearly not going to use her for anything else, so why not develop that tid bit. it would actually make her interesting in X2. as opposed to being just kind of cool. it would also explain how she ended up with Stryker.

That is a good idea .I'm hoping for her cameo.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Page 2 responses

Aceofspades266 - Wolverine has become its own franchise, quiet frankly we need to more movies to close the series... he wondered into the series, reluctantly but became a hero because of it... he found his identity by the end of x-men 3, and by that i dont mean he found out who he waws, No i mean he discovered what he was destine to be.

Andreth - i think gambit could play a solid part in wolverines sequel movies for a start he seemed to be the only person who knew who wolverine was when he lost his memory.

Project862006 - already answered this

Nell2thaIzzay - Thanks for the support, i guess you can see it as i can see it.

Younge808 - We do need a wolverine movie because fox can make it a safe bet, if first class fails, deadpool fails, gambit fails, mangeto fails as a movie, the studio considers wolverine as successful. It is the core that keeps this world alive.

Night0205 - see my previous response in page 1 responses.

sdc10 - yes that also contributes to why its so good.

OoAnd1 - i think we need to expand the universe a bit first before we return to X4, First Class will expland that but i think Wolverine has now splintered off from the prequel trilogy that was originally planned, instead i think the prequel trilogy will include deadpool and wolverine will be seen in its own write as a trilogy.

Jick09 - yes and maybe

Romyfan - hasnt been officley stated yet, i could write a perfect X-Men Origins Gambit movie, but id rather see him interact more with x-men characters than have characters soly based around him at the present moment.

Nell2Thaizzay - sadly not related to the film series though. thought that with beast one they did.

Deaths head 2 - not true, they do take into consideration what they did wrong, only so they can try to make it right and make more money.

Infinity9999x - there would be some ulterations to the story but yeah pretty much it.

Night0205 - i would suggest reading it, seriously read it.

Crazyrabbits - 1. Thats the right angle. 2. Watchmen was a good movie, but the reason it was unsucessful is that it was a much unheard comic book that only comic book nerds would know about. If Watchman had been i dont know been a real life story that was part of history, it would be mega popular, but it wasnt, its up to us as fans to premote this movie during DVD sales and get people to like it, because cinema statistics doesnt make it success. 3. The Batman series has been ultered so many times even a pastic supermodel with nothing real could tell an amazing story. Batman Begins was good because they basically forget the main character was batman... it was strong, heavy focesd on bruce wayne and his self searching enlightenment. It was less of an origin of batman as to a re-awakening of the soul for bruce wayne. 4. yes, singer did get alot of scruitiny but he was given more freedom to make x2 than he did with x1. 5. Your wrong on that point, Matthew Vaughan couldnt commet what fox wanted to rush with x-men 3, Ratner on the otherhand is good at making films quick, hence rush hour. 6. you can predict box office success, its why studios fight for may 1st showing... whoever gets that gets the sucessful franchise. but you would have to really work in the industry to see that.

Pyromaniac - because crazyrabbit seems to want to give there expertease based on there own oppinion without any knowledge of the industry. Forgive him though, he is just one of many who just was peed off with the outcome of the movies because it didnt fit his vision... and i agree about watchmen comment.

Deahts Head 2 -Deadpool has been in works for a while but they had difficultly pushing that movie into the faces and making it popular outside of the comicbook world... when wolverine came along his solomovie served as a good pool to introduce the character so they can then work on the movie.

Crazyrabbits - not needy, no, had you considered the fact that fox maybe fans of marvel too and want to get as many storys out because there are so many wonderful characters with great stories to tell. There only problem is that they are a studio, a business, there not in the business to make a movie that only one person would like, they make to make a movie that makes money... so dont blame them, blame the way it is with the industry, hell, blame it on us for hating what they combinded to try and satisfy us in the first place.

Infinity9999x - pretty good synopsis of the story.

night0205 - the comics are not canon - they tried to be but were considered to boring LOL

night0205 - strykers story has ended. But doesnt mean people have been left to pick up his mess, i mean what drives wolverine to Japan in the first place, we could look towards the technology, how was wolverines adimantium coating created? who had the technology? lets go to them for answers...

Cryptic Name - X-Men 1 wasnt an origin story, it was an introductory story, thats why people didnt directly hate the movie, it just would of been alot better if they had more money. Wolverine is a true origin story, which means the story soly focused on him... even if it wasnt entirely true to the comic, it was true in the sense of how an origin story is told normally.

spidey 2007 - i feel wolverine has splintered off, we may see Deadpool and wolverine be made at the same time maybe deadpool an april release, where as wolverine an october release... Marvel will want another comic book character to take centre stage for may so if i had to guess you would be looking at feb-early april Deadpool, 1st may - Captain America, october - wolverine 2.

Batman1939us - Are we all forgetting Deadpool is masked in the comic? he will be the same looking just only under the mask.

Neptune - again because they havent really explained how wolverine went from wolverine to x1... his tale is truely epic.

 

[Project862006]

WTF was this a Velvet submit your question thread not bashing just weird lol

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Page 3 - responses

Dev - No, the saga needs to move within its own flow, so wolverines tale would come first followed by Magneto leading to first class, then we get x1 Deadpool didnt interact with the x1-x3 world so his story wont effect the x-men world.

GL1 - X-men Origins: Wolverine, sould really be retitled - X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Sabretooth, Deadpool and Cyclops... but told from wolverines point of view... same thing will happen with first class.

Raynorwilm - you will get that from deadpool and possible gambit, FIRST CLASS will focus on fixing the continuity.

Golgo-13 - agreed, but wolverine 2 has alot of potential.

Infinity 9999x - Japan story is what is needed

Horhey - Omega Red is hard to explain in the sequel, hes best kept for Wolverine 3

Infinity 9999x - yes i agree.

Dev - First Class is definatly going to be made, that will introduce those characters.

Horhey - yes but he is too big and too behind the scenes to be introduced in wolverine 2, he would on he other hand be essential for Wolverine 3 which would lead on from wolverine 2.

Spider-Fan - No omega red is perfect for wolverine 3 - its just how you use him, where does wolverine go from japan is what you ask...

night0205 - No origins are explained easly wrapped together in one chapter of a story.

Horhey - I figure sabretooth will return, or appear in Magneto to explain how he became smart and feral into brainless mutated tool... Personally i think sabretooths explination would best fit in the magneto story, maybe introduce the high evolutionary the place where magneto gets the idea to change humans into mutants and sabretooth is a test subject causing the secondary mutation.

Infinity 9999x - Omega red can work.

Infinity 9999x - samuri and wolverines temprement were simular infact i would say samuris attitude is the same as sabretooth. take what he wants out of life.

Deaths head 2 - most likely, because they'll want to make the cast orientle based. you may get Gambit, possible bishop in some ultured form... hey spiral would be interesting...but there origins would be ultured to fit a mostly oriental cast. so your looking at deathstrike, silver samuri, sunfire, sunpyre, gogotomago, honey lemon, hiro takachiho baymax... all probably ultered versons but fiting with the theme.

Spider-fan - I think pre-deathstrike could appear, Yuriko could appear as just as secondary character who loses alot from one of wolverines rages, initially wolverine doesnt really know who she is, but by time she becomes deathstrike for revenge purposes her appearance has changed... wolverine caused her to change without him even knowing it.

Jick09 - i havent fully read it but i did read a few issues and it was brilliant.

infinity 999x - read answer i gave spider-fan.

Spider-Fan - things always change, remember there canon comic history doesnt apply to there film versons...

Infinity 9999x - talking of longshot... read my horror marvel idea.

Spider-fan - wolverine 2 wont be rushed.

Infinity 9999x - my original point.

Legion - Omega Red best kept for Wolverine 3

Infinity 9999x - that is my reason why we need wolverine 3.

Dark Victory - thats your oppinion, millions of others on the other hand...

 

[venom892]

If you really think about Omega Red Should have been in X-men Origins.He is much easier to incorporate Omega Red in a Weapon X movie then a Japan Movie.Sabertooth vs. Omega Red vs. Wolverine would have been much more interesting then Barakapool and a much better Climax.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Page four responses

Project862006 - more people see my point, YEAHY

The Batman - Batman Begins to me was crude, Iron Man was good because this was a new property... its one of the rare movies that is seen to be good, but i say reserve your judgement until Iron Man 2. And as for Superman The Movie, i hated it, and Blade didnt have an origin story, he pratically started out as blade and you got little origin on him, barely anything.

Deaths head 2 - again wolverine has been a reset back because fox dont take risks unless they can see what the director can do, if good better sequel.. as in x1 to x2.

I see Spidey - they never officialy said no to X-men 4 - they just viewed wolverine as X-Men 4, however a future sequel may occure when the marvel universe is more developed by hte sequels.

The Batman - again see my point about the reset.

Kurosawa - Jackman could play wolverine in his 80s lets face it the older he looks the more he will look like old wolverine from the origin comic stories. The End LOL

ChaoticPsylocke - i already said yes it would in another reply.

Bullets - Omega Red could be who wolverine chases down by the end of wolverine 2 leading to wolverine 3.

Project862006 - Ha, sorry no wasnt ment like that, its just i move away from the thread for the day, so i wasnt able to defend my points... this was the best way to do it so going forward im upto speed with the rest of you on the responses.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Omega Red is russia's answer to the weapon x programe... if anything, if they introduced him from the start. He could of been the reason stryker fears mutants so much, and to top that his own son turns out to be one of them, Omega Red twisted the mind of Young Jason Stryker...

 

[Angamb]

I'm starting to think that Wolverine 2, First class and Magneto won't be made.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Wolverine has splintered into its own series, trilogy... first class and magneto are creating the prequel trilogy... they need one more movie because wolverine spinned off into its own.

 

[baTT]

Gavin Hood is a good director, they just need a better script.

Agreed, once you start making blockbusters in Hollywood The way Singer has, you then get the chance to swing your Johnson on the set and make some story decisions.

 

[Project862006]

Singer is better he put story and characters before action and explosions which is the total opposite of what happened in this movie

 

[Infinity9999x]

They could somehow pull it ..Omega Red could be a side story until the end.

That's the kind of mindset that gives us movies like X3 and Origins. I'm sure they could somehow pull it, but it would end up being a lackluster movie, because those two storylines don't mesh.

The original Japanese story is really all about Wolverine. All the characters can be tied back to aspects of his psyche.

Mariko is peaceful, dedicated to her honor and culture, strong, yet innocent. She's what he wishes he could be, the part of him that yearns for inner peace. Yukio is free spirited, passionate, and wild. She lives for excitement and danger. She's the side of him that wants to throw all his yearning for control and peace to the wind. To accept who he is and go with it. Shingen represents Logan's fear and struggle to find who he really is. Shingen bested Logan in hand to hand combat and called him an animal, and Logan's biggest fear is that Shingen is right. This is why Logan puts off facing him, because he's afraid that Shingen may be right. But Logan has to defeat Shingen if he wants to prove himself, just as he must overcome his own internal insecurities and fears if he wants to master his inner turmoil.

All the outter battle and outer characters are reflections of Wolverine's inner struggle, they all highlight and reflect aspects of Wolverine's character and internal conflict. These themes are what need to be explored if this movie is to work, and right there is more than enough material to fill a movie. Omega Red not only does not fit with the story, he doesn't have a place with the themes that the story provides.

Omega Red could very well be in a Wolverine movie, but he doesn't belong in the Japan storyline.


EDIT:

ANd TheVelvetOnion, I think what people weren't talking about BB's or Iron Man's or Spider-man's quality, they were pointing out that all these movies were origin stories, and very successful. I would have to disagree about the public not liking Origin stories. If you notice, the origin stories usually end up being the most, or close to the most profitable movies in a series or trilogy. Superman: The Movie, B89, Spider-man, Star Wars: A New Hope, all of them very popular and profitable, and origin stories.

 

[night0205]

I just wanted to stat, because it's brought up a lot, that Wolverine doesn't have to take an airplane to Japan, easily he can get on a boat. Not as much security.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Wolverine could potentially swim the ocean, his body would withstand he cold

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

I know what they were refering to, im just stating why they were sucessful and some of those movies werent origin stories..

Batman Begins wasnt an origin story despite the fact that people believe it to be the story how how batman came about... It is but thats not what the movie was about, The story was of bruce wayne told in the style of a re-awaking, finding there path. Those kind of movies work different to origin stories because in an origin story its pretty plan cut, accident or scenario happesn, the centrical character becomes a hero, seeks out becoming the hero and by the end of the movie goes out in the world as that hero... Batman Begins was a reawaking of bruce wayne... it is when bruce is searching for his path...

The difference between the two is simply this.

Origin stories - through accident, pain or frustration, this once normal character becomes said NEW character.
Awakeing stories - is a lost character who is seeking redemption for his life, they are looking for there soul, and outlet.

I think in a way its along the lines of origin is where they didnt mean this to happen, where an awakening story is more they persued it even on a subconcious level.

See Batman Begins and Iron Man --- all products of the awakening style story
Fantastic Four - didnt set out to be heroes, that was an accident, so there tale is an origin.
Blade wasnt an origin - that was an introduction to a character.

X-Men 1 was an introduction to the characters it wasnt an origin... however First Class is the point to were you would say they became heroes by accident. they didnt chose or seek out becoming a mutant, they simply were.