Superman Returns Wil SR be as good as BB?

matthooper said:
It's going to be much better, much more exciting. Since I fell asleep during Batman Begins I am probably not the one to ask though.

Batman fans and many critics liked BB, but the general public certainly didn't go ape over it. Sure it did well, but it wasn't like Spider-Man or Superman 78'. I think Superman Returns will energize the regular filmgoer and just people in general. I don't know one person who loved BB that wasn't a Batman fan. It just didn't impress the average filmgoer.




That's strange, because in my experience general/regular filmgoers thought very highly of Batman Begins and liked it very much.

And that's why anecdotal evidence is mostly worthless.

It seems a bit odd to defend and excuse the box office performance of a movie -- Batman Begins -- that was, afterall, a big hit in the end, as it showed very good legs after its underwhelming opening and went on to gross a little over $200 million domestically. That still qualifies as a bonafide, genuine blockbuster. And going back to the issue of how the general public responded, its good legs indicate that it had very good word of mouth among regular moviegoers as there are not enough 'fans' to carry it week after week. Obviously it didn't carry over with the general public like Star Wars or Spider-Man, but $200 million still means a lot of business with non-fans.

But there is no denying that that performance was a far-cry from Spider-Man and the inflation-adjusted gross of 1989's "Batman." It also came up short to X-Men 2 (and will likely come up short of X-3, even though that movie sucks and will probably drop fast even by modern standards). But BB had some factors going against it that were completely independent of BB itself; namely that franchise-wrecking, public-alienating, trainwreck known as Batman & Robin. If any of those other franchises had a steaming turd like that as the most-recent installment, then the next in the series would suffer for it as well. BB only had an eight year buffer zone from that monstrosity, so the joke that Batman had become was still a strong image for many. Still, the quality of BB was such that it managed to overcome that for the most part, as its inflation adjusted gross was about $60 million more than B&R, which equals about 7-10 million more admissions.

Plus, BB did take a decidedly darker, less kid-friendly approach that made it less appealing to families with young children. It was also less of a special effects extravaganza that comic-book movies have become known for.

I think this was a good thing, though, as such an approach lends itself to a more faithful interpretation of Batman. In fact, I hope that the WB execs don't make the mistake of thinking that Batman should (or even could at this point) make Spiderman-level money. I hope they continue down this path, and go for hard PG-13 movies. This means it will never again have the mass appeal as Spiderman or Superman, but again, it makes for a better Batman movie, and it could probably be just as profitable in terms of margin. By that I am of course talking about budget vs revenue. Other than raises in pay for the cast and director, why should the next Batman film cost as much as BB? Since the scope will no doubt be smaller, I don't see why the production costs couldn't be reduced, especially if they forgo and avoid the doomsday scenario where Batman must save the world, or entire city of Gotham. Batman lends itself to a smaller story, so they should take advantage of that in the sequel.
 
'Good' (to me) implies a few things here.

1) Box Office
2) Faithfulness to the established characters
3) A sense of realism; where you are drawn into the story and you aren't just sitting back knowingly self aware at the amazing CGI/ or the characters are believable
4) Not campy

Batman Begins struggled at the box office and didn't do Sith numbers because the franchise has been pretty constant for almost 15 years now and there was nothing special to set it apart like being 'the last Star Wars' film. It was another origin story, albeit better, but people didn't go in droves initially because of those reasons. Supes is relatively novel and people have been waiting a long time to see him back on screen. In addition it will draw many, many, many, many people who are interested seeing the CGI.

2)-4) Batman Begins accomplished all of the last three because it was faithful to some adaptions of the character, treated him serious, and showed the public what the fanboys saw all this time. Camp was minimal if at all. The director strove to show a gritty realistic Batman. Even the jumping car looked realistic. For these reasons, the movie was good and had legs.

With Superman, I'm worried about 2 and 4, but I really can't decide until the movie comes out. By building on Donner's work, changing the suit, and adding a kid, there doesn't seem to be a faithfulness to the comic character. While it doesn't displease some people, I already stated that this is my opinion on what qualifies as a good production. It kinda bugs me that Singer doesn't seem like he drew from established superman stories. There are 60+ years of great stories, why did they have to make something new up? As for number 4, there seems to be a hint a cheese by Clark and Lex in seperate scenes. I don't dig that.

As for number 3, I'm sure the Supes effects will be realistic/breath taking CGI. I'm no conoiseur (sp), but some effects are just obvious in some movies.
 
im not really a fan of batman so for me, SR will be much better.
 
Just as good as BB I pray. If it is just as good as BB ill prefer it because i prefer Supes.
 
thechubbysaint said:
'Good' (to me) implies a few things here.

1) Box Office
2) Faithfulness to the established characters
3) A sense of realism; where you are drawn into the story and you aren't just sitting back knowingly self aware at the amazing CGI/ or the characters are believable
4) Not campy

I'd agree with 2-4, but I disagree that Box Office makes a film any better.
 
Won't be anywhere near as good as BB.

BB had a better director, a cast filled to the brim with some of the best actors working today, and a very good script.

Singer is a decent director, all right - but he's no Nolan. And Singer's best film was more a result of the fantastic screenplay rather than his direction.
 
It could easily be better dont be such a negative nancy Bauer.
 
I'm not being negative. I'm sure it'll be quite good. But BB was my favourite film of last year (and I'm by no means a big comic book/batman fan). SR won't top it in terms of quality.
 
Anyone who doesn't like BB should watch it again. Everything fits together so well. Its amazing!

And as for SR, I'm actually pretty excited to see it. It should be fun. But I'm not sure if its going to be better then BB.
 
I am a hardcore Spidey fan as well. I have loved him since I was 3. I have the complete opposite opinion. As I loved the films and they satisfied me, especially SM2.

I dunno......I'm kinda pissed at how they've handled MJ. But, it is more in line with Ultimate. Both films were great though.....although, somtimes the music used hurt me.

But, yeah....I can see how hardcore web-heads were satisfied.

I just can't see how anyone could think Batman Begins is the best Superhero film. I actually think that Batman Forever is better, at least I wasn't bored watching Batman Forever. The climax was neverending. I can't think of one moment of the film I actually liked.

Hmmm......your not a fan of story with depth?

Batman Forever was flashy......that's all.

However, I can respect your opinion simply because you said "for me". I just hate when people state their opinion as fact. It seems many of the BB fans do just that. It seems too many of the BB lovers have this deluded opinion that everyone feels it's the best comic book film.

Well, it's the forecast of the fan-dom.

It's the EXACT same way how Spidey 2 was the best superhero/comic film for a while. Same thing, Batman Begins is currently the best....atleast most do feel that way. It's part of the competition that happens every year or so...where Spidey will try and re-capture the flag by topping what it did in S2.....and setting the bar higher.

In this case, SR will try and set the bar higher.....and I guess X3 failed to do so.

Personally, I don't think will be as good. I think, I hope, it will be in the top 5, even 3 for me. But the thing that made BB so good, and so well accepted is that it was not only a good movie, but it was always very faithful to the character, and nearly all the characters in the film. SR however, obviously is going more to match STM than the current comics, and I think that will be the thing that keeps SR from being the best. For me, at least.

Yeah, I'm with you there CConn. I'm a huge fan of comics....and being an art student, I'm prone to always side with the comics in terms of inspiration.

I did notice that too.....in the dazzle of it all, not much mention of the comics with SUPERMAN RETURNS. That might hurt for me a bit, but I just read that SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASON was supposedly an inspiration the filmmakers drew upon....so that's good.

As good as BB? BB is to Batman what StM was to Superman. So then for SR to be better than BB it would have to be better than StM, and clearly that isn't going to happen.

Wow....I never thought of thought.

Yeah, Begins is to Batman what STM was to Superman.....didn't think of that, good point.

The major question might have to be....can SR top STM? Then....we can talk SR and BB....

I dont think this two movies are comparable. Much like the two characters, they will opposite to each other in terms of tone, theme and approach.

Your right. You really are.

But......these guys, Batman and Superman....they're like brothers in the comic community. Batman was created a year after Superman....and ever since then, the comparisons are constant and neverending. Add the fact at how different they are, and it sparks even more comparisons.

I see them as being like brothers almost....in terms of fansbase, and just in comic book community terms. One's the bright eyed, do-gooder, straight arrow kid who had a great childhood, great family........while Bats is dark, breaks rules, and horrible childhood.

The comparisons are gonna happen no matter what.....and with these films, it might be un fair to do so.

- Both movies are very strongly character-driven and focus on the superhero/protagonist's evolution the most.....him trying to find his place in the world

:up: :up:

- SR, from an action and romantic point of view, will probably be more memorable than Batman Begins.

Yeah, probably....simply b/c with Superman....you've got Lois Lane....comic book's 1st love interest, I think, and with his powers....the action MUST be on some god-like level just b/c of what he's capable of.

You think?
The way I see it BB was a composite of Batman Year one + The long halloween + DKR = Batman Begins.

AND Batman: the man who falls, great issue written by Denny O'Neil.

Funny thing too.....Begins take alot of those graphic novels.....but, it's still something else. It's not like it's taking a specific arc or story....it's mixing and blending them to fit THEIR story. It's pretty incredible how they managed that.

Hey thats what I originally thought with my limited Bat knowlegde, said that in the Bats forum.....and all the hardcore fans dismissed it and said it was mainly classic precrisis inspired.

They were wrong.

The only thing that comes to mind, that is Pre-crisis inspired....is Joe Chill, and Jim Gordon meeting an 8-year old Bruce.

Can't think of any other Pre-crisis stuff...

Batman fans and many critics liked BB, but the general public certainly didn't go ape over it. Sure it did well, but it wasn't like Spider-Man or Superman 78'. I think Superman Returns will energize the regular filmgoer and just people in general. I don't know one person who loved BB that wasn't a Batman fan. It just didn't impress the average filmgoer

Nah......trust me, it impressed the average filmgoer. Most of them have seen BF and B&R.....so....yeah....they've got to be.

BB had a better director, a cast filled to the brim with some of the best actors working today, and a very good script.

Good point.

I'll say this.....Batman fans will go watch and support SR. I mean, the fanbases are very close....and it'll get support from us. I wonder how many SR fans supported BB.....I think us Bat-fans give off some bad vibes for some reason....:O

I will say this too:

There's no other fanbase that had to endure the injustice....the sexual assault that BATMAN AND ROBIN was. That film was like getting hit in the testicles with a giant hammer. And...to have a Batman film ontop, FOR ONCE.......it's awesome. So, if your annoyed by Bat-fans being a little....too joyous over it.....take it easy. After Batman and Robin....who the **** wouldn't be?!
 
I cheated!:O I just finished reading the Superman Returns novel adaptation, and let me tell you it is AMAZING! There were moments just reading the book that I nearly had goosebumps. The characters are richly fleshed out ,and the story moves the Superman legend forward! I love Batman Begins and I don't think it makes any sense to compare the two! The types of stories between the two are very different! BB is the legend beginning anew ,and SR is about reclaiming a destiny! Think both are SUPERIOR comic films, and BOTH should be appreciated equally by fans! :supes: GREAT :batman: GREAT!
 
I don't think SR will be as good as BB. Ihope it comes close at least though. This should have been a poll.
 
NO you can tell that by just looking at the trailers
 
I think it will be just as good as Batman Begins. From what I've seen so far, it looks lke it's going to be good. I don't like Superman though.
 
Image said:
I think it will be just as good as Batman Begins. From what I've seen so far, it looks lke it's going to be good. I don't like Superman though.
You'll come around eventually!:)
 

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